Boxing is back big time.

[ElTerribleMorales]

it's not his fault that he's suffering from fanboyism, it's quite sad really

I was right about Sam Peter and I'll be right about this.

As for your misinterpretation of my comments about Ali....I merely say that Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano have actual RECORDS and Ali does not. And yes I do realize he MAY have acheived more had he not had the draft dodging incident BUT Ted Williams may have been the greatest baseball player EVER but he fought in 2 wars which affected his numbers and thereby affected his standing in the history of the game, that is sad but it's reality.

Joe Louis 25 successful title defenses
Rocky Marciano 49-0-0

If we don't recognize the greatness of those acheivements then we're missing out on a big part of boxing history. Ali was talented as hell, but he holds no records and by that rational I have to elevate Louis' and Rocky's standings in MY All-Time Great Heavyweights list.

I simply disagree with you and then you act like I'm just shitting all over Ali's entire career why? I don't know...maybe it's because I found the way Ali acted as a person to be dispicable and maybe it's because I don't fully buy the celebrity hype that surrounds Ali just because of his brashness and political views, to break it down plain and simple I LOOK AT ALI THE BOXER WHEN I AM COMPARING HIM TO OTHER BOXERS. I don't look at his attitude or the fact he's one of the more famous fighters of all time and I think other people don't do that.

And why the hell do you bring up Ali in a thread not about Ali?....oh I'm sorry that reasoning only seems to carry weight when someone tries to use it against me.

i bring it up to show your ignorance and how much of a hypocrite you can be, you bash all the Haye nuthuggers yet you're the same thing, only thing is you do it for Wlad, Louis has the 25 defenses over mainly weak opposition and Marciano made a career out of knocking out has been contenders, Ali became the first man to become 3 time HW champ, Louis never regained the title after losing it period, and if we're gonna go by actual fight records, Ali's is a step above the rest, but back to the main topic, and it's the last one i'm putting on here cause you're too thick to ever be wrong , yes Haye sucks, but he still puts butts in seats, therefore making him a popular fighter, is it really that hard for you to accept or understand?

[El Kabong]

i bring it up to show your ignorance and how much of a hypocrite you can be, you bash all the Haye nuthuggers yet you're the same thing, only thing is you do it for Wlad, Louis has the 25 defenses over mainly weak opposition and Marciano made a career out of knocking out has been contenders, Ali became the first man to become 3 time HW champ, Louis never regained the title after losing it period, and if we're gonna go by actual fight records, Ali's is a step above the rest, but back to the main topic, and it's the last one i'm putting on here cause you're too thick to ever be wrong , yes Haye sucks, but he still puts butts in seats, therefore making him a popular fighter, is it really that hard for you to accept or understand?

Joe Louis didn't win his title back because he never got another shot to win it back and the only loss he had after initially losing the title was his last fight vs Rocky Marciano.

ANY Ali fan (and all of them think I am insulting him by not agreeing that he BY HIMSELF is the greatest heavyweight boxer of all-time) will bring up competition, time and time again and I will tell you that there have been MANY weak eras and many strong eras and NOBODY has accomplished what Joe Louis accomplished, not Tyson, not Holmes, not Lennox Lewis, not Rocky, not Floyd Patterson, not Liston, and not ALI. So you can see it is rather difficult to make 25 successful title defenses in a row no matter who you fight. Louis held the title from 1937-1950. Joe Louis fought often (about 2 fights a year) AND he took time off to serve in the Army so he got robbed of time just like Ali and he STILL got 25 successful title defenses in. Many heavyweight champs(regardless of the level of competition) would have gone soft or quit training as hard or not taken a fight seriously and they would have lost 25 title defenses is a marathon. And the same goes for Rocky's 49-0-0, that is a marathon and it doesn't matter who you fight, it's tough to do that.

Ali is the only fighter to win the linear Heavyweight championship belt 3 times, but there isn't just 1 belt anymore Evander Holyfield is a 4 time heavyweight champion (2 linear titles) and Vitali Klitschko is a 3 time heavyweight champion of the world...that accomplishment is a tough one to make because well first off you have to lose the title a couple times to be able to do it, but I digress winning the title back is a tough thing to do because ANY loss can destroy a career let alone 2 losses. Still, it's harder just to win 25 straight

I don't diss Ali for what he did in the ring, he was talented as hell, but why can you and every other Ali fan out there just accept a different OPINION What's your fucking problem? I'm not insulting Ali when I say that he's not alone at the top, I'm not insulting Ali when I say he isn't who I consider the greatest of all time, I just have a different view and you need to just accept it because you're not going to change it.

As for your talking about my defending the Klitschko's...what about it? They are some of the biggest boxers in the history of the sport (heighth wise anyway) and they are blessed with a lot of skill to be as big as they are. I think they take too much crap right now but Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield took a bunch of shit during their reigns at the top too. I just defend a viewpoint and sometimes offer up different opinions based on fact.


Also, just to add this in the Super 6 tournament has helped boxing as well, great idea to do that. I think it should be done it every weight class about every couple of years or so

[0james0]

i bring it up to show your ignorance and how much of a hypocrite you can be, you bash all the Haye nuthuggers yet you're the same thing, only thing is you do it for Wlad, Louis has the 25 defenses over mainly weak opposition and Marciano made a career out of knocking out has been contenders, Ali became the first man to become 3 time HW champ, Louis never regained the title after losing it period, and if we're gonna go by actual fight records, Ali's is a step above the rest, but back to the main topic, and it's the last one i'm putting on here cause you're too thick to ever be wrong , yes Haye sucks, but he still puts butts in seats, therefore making him a popular fighter, is it really that hard for you to accept or understand?

Joe Louis didn't win his title back because he never got another shot to win it back and the only loss he had after initially losing the title was his last fight vs Rocky Marciano.

ANY Ali fan (and all of them think I am insulting him by not agreeing that he BY HIMSELF is the greatest heavyweight boxer of all-time) will bring up competition, time and time again and I will tell you that there have been MANY weak eras and many strong eras and NOBODY has accomplished what Joe Louis accomplished, not Tyson, not Holmes, not Lennox Lewis, not Rocky, not Floyd Patterson, not Liston, and not ALI. So you can see it is rather difficult to make 25 successful title defenses in a row no matter who you fight. Louis held the title from 1937-1950. Joe Louis fought often (about 2 fights a year) AND he took time off to serve in the Army so he got robbed of time just like Ali and he STILL got 25 successful title defenses in. Many heavyweight champs(regardless of the level of competition) would have gone soft or quit training as hard or not taken a fight seriously and they would have lost 25 title defenses is a marathon. And the same goes for Rocky's 49-0-0, that is a marathon and it doesn't matter who you fight, it's tough to do that.

Ali is the only fighter to win the linear Heavyweight championship belt 3 times, but there isn't just 1 belt anymore Evander Holyfield is a 4 time heavyweight champion (2 linear titles) and Vitali Klitschko is a 3 time heavyweight champion of the world...that accomplishment is a tough one to make because well first off you have to lose the title a couple times to be able to do it, but I digress winning the title back is a tough thing to do because ANY loss can destroy a career let alone 2 losses. Still, it's harder just to win 25 straight

I don't diss Ali for what he did in the ring, he was talented as hell, but why can you and every other Ali fan out there just accept a different OPINION What's your fucking problem? I'm not insulting Ali when I say that he's not alone at the top, I'm not insulting Ali when I say he isn't who I consider the greatest of all time, I just have a different view and you need to just accept it because you're not going to change it.

As for your talking about my defending the Klitschko's...what about it? They are some of the biggest boxers in the history of the sport (heighth wise anyway) and they are blessed with a lot of skill to be as big as they are. I think they take too much crap right now but Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield took a bunch of shit during their reigns at the top too. I just defend a viewpoint and sometimes offer up different opinions based on fact.


Also, just to add this in the Super 6 tournament has helped boxing as well, great idea to do that. I think it should be done it every weight class about every couple of years or so

Everything you say there is pretty much true. But that wasn't the argument!

The problem was that you were slamming Haye, when all people were saying is that in Europe he is making waves and bringing interest back into boxing. You then went off on one about how he's shit and on decline.

I personally think that the oldies would not have done aswell in todays world (with the heavyweights prob being the only exceptions because there is a fairly poor batch now)

[El Kabong]

james, I never said anyone was on the decline I merely thought it odd to compare any other boxer that is fighting right now and in their prime to Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

I know of MANY Europeans that are bringing excitement back to the sport: Kessler, Abraham, Froch, Povetkin, etc. but they still can't be compared to Manny and Floyd, those guys right now are rock stars and everyone whether they care about boxing or not should know of them.

If the author of this thread simply wanted to describe exciting things that are going on in boxing and bringing it back to the front burner then including England's fan favorites is A-OK with me, but to just say Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather & _____ have brought boxing back to the limelight by themselves is simply FALSE...it's true in the fact that Floyd and Manny have done a lot of good for the sport by themselves, but including ANYONE else in that statement is wrong.


And the only reason Ali, Louis, and Marciano were brought up was because someone question my views on them and tried to point them out as a precedent for saying that I am wrong on everything, and that was pretty fucking lame of them

[rjj tszyu]

i bring it up to show your ignorance and how much of a hypocrite you can be, you bash all the Haye nuthuggers yet you're the same thing, only thing is you do it for Wlad, Louis has the 25 defenses over mainly weak opposition and Marciano made a career out of knocking out has been contenders, Ali became the first man to become 3 time HW champ, Louis never regained the title after losing it period, and if we're gonna go by actual fight records, Ali's is a step above the rest, but back to the main topic, and it's the last one i'm putting on here cause you're too thick to ever be wrong , yes Haye sucks, but he still puts butts in seats, therefore making him a popular fighter, is it really that hard for you to accept or understand?

Joe Louis didn't win his title back because he never got another shot to win it back and the only loss he had after initially losing the title was his last fight vs Rocky Marciano.

ANY Ali fan (and all of them think I am insulting him by not agreeing that he BY HIMSELF is the greatest heavyweight boxer of all-time) will bring up competition, time and time again and I will tell you that there have been MANY weak eras and many strong eras and NOBODY has accomplished what Joe Louis accomplished, not Tyson, not Holmes, not Lennox Lewis, not Rocky, not Floyd Patterson, not Liston, and not ALI. So you can see it is rather difficult to make 25 successful title defenses in a row no matter who you fight. Louis held the title from 1937-1950. Joe Louis fought often (about 2 fights a year) AND he took time off to serve in the Army so he got robbed of time just like Ali and he STILL got 25 successful title defenses in. Many heavyweight champs(regardless of the level of competition) would have gone soft or quit training as hard or not taken a fight seriously and they would have lost 25 title defenses is a marathon. And the same goes for Rocky's 49-0-0, that is a marathon and it doesn't matter who you fight, it's tough to do that.

Ali is the only fighter to win the linear Heavyweight championship belt 3 times, but there isn't just 1 belt anymore Evander Holyfield is a 4 time heavyweight champion (2 linear titles) and Vitali Klitschko is a 3 time heavyweight champion of the world...that accomplishment is a tough one to make because well first off you have to lose the title a couple times to be able to do it, but I digress winning the title back is a tough thing to do because ANY loss can destroy a career let alone 2 losses. Still, it's harder just to win 25 straight

I don't diss Ali for what he did in the ring, he was talented as hell, but why can you and every other Ali fan out there just accept a different OPINION What's your fucking problem? I'm not insulting Ali when I say that he's not alone at the top, I'm not insulting Ali when I say he isn't who I consider the greatest of all time, I just have a different view and you need to just accept it because you're not going to change it.

As for your talking about my defending the Klitschko's...what about it? They are some of the biggest boxers in the history of the sport (heighth wise anyway) and they are blessed with a lot of skill to be as big as they are. I think they take too much crap right now but Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield took a bunch of shit during their reigns at the top too. I just defend a viewpoint and sometimes offer up different opinions based on fact.


Also, just to add this in the Super 6 tournament has helped boxing as well, great idea to do that. I think it should be done it every weight class about every couple of years or so

Now here I totally agree with you Lyle. Ali IMO IS the Greatest HW of all time, but if you disagree, especially if your using Joe Louis as your arguement, then you have every right to and some on here at times do fail to accept that.

Same goes for SRR. There is not much footage of him at his best, which was 147, so we have to go off what we have got film wise and what is written about how great he was. Now if I was to say for example Ray Leonard would beat Robinson from what I've seen (only an example although it would be very interesting), I think I would be attacked for that in this same way.

Another thing though, and this is a genuine question, not me disagreeing with your statement on Holyfield. Holyfield won the HW title off Buster lost it to Bowe won it back off Bowe and lost it to Moorer who then lost it to Foreman who then never lost it but let it dwindle away until he had no claim over it. Now upto this point Evander is 2 times champ and then he goes and fights Tyson who holds the WBA version and at the time was considered by many to be the man as he had won 2 versions (WBA and WBC) since his comeback, but was stripped of the WBC (can't remember why). So when Holyfield beat him I did consider him HW champ but was I only 12 at the time, so maybe I am wrong linear wise, but have continued to feel that Holyfield was 3 time legit champ since!

Whats your view on that?

[El Kabong]

Well sir, I am not sure what to think about Evander but until he lost to Lennox Lewis he was always considered to hold at least a share of the true title....the case could be made for him more than anyone else and I think given what he accomplished and who he fought and beat he's in my Top 10 Greatest Heavyweights of All-Time. I still would have liked to see how he handled Ruddock, Morrison, and Golota

[rjj tszyu]

Well sir, I am not sure what to think about Evander but until he lost to Lennox Lewis he was always considered to hold at least a share of the true title....the case could be made for him more than anyone else and I think given what he accomplished and who he fought and beat he's in my Top 10 Greatest Heavyweights of All-Time. I still would have liked to see how he handled Ruddock, Morrison, and Golota

Yeah me too. I think he would have KO'd Morrison and Golota and decisioned Ruddock talking all on their best nights that is.

[El Kabong]

Yeah me too. I think he would have KO'd Morrison and Golota and decisioned Ruddock talking all on their best nights that is.

Oh of course Evander would be the hands down favorite, I would just like to see him dismantle those very dangerous power punchers (Morrison and Ruddock) and then totally school a guy (Golota) who just might have been one of the best fighters to never win a title. I would be interested to see how Evander dealt with the uppercut of Razor Ruddock.

Evander could have even given Ali and Joe Frazier trouble in their primes. However that being said even Old George Foreman gave Evander hell, Evander said George hit him so hard it made his teeth rattle.

[rjj tszyu]

Yeah me too. I think he would have KO'd Morrison and Golota and decisioned Ruddock talking all on their best nights that is.

Oh of course Evander would be the hands down favorite, I would just like to see him dismantle those very dangerous power punchers (Morrison and Ruddock) and then totally school a guy (Golota) who just might have been one of the best fighters to never win a title. I would be interested to see how Evander dealt with the uppercut of Razor Ruddock.

Evander could have even given Ali and Joe Frazier trouble in their primes. However that being said even Old George Foreman gave Evander hell, Evander said George hit him so hard it made his teeth rattle.

Foreman was a brick wall that wouldn't fall for Holyfield and then Foreman just started hitting Holyfield with good shots that would have made many other fighters fall, but I think that was an "off night" for Evander, of which Evander seemed to have a few and he was unpredictable as to how he was going to perform, especially in the early 90's.

But on his best night I would put him in top 5 all time HW's. Then again he is my favourite HW of all time and maybe i'm playing him up a bit??