Should Bush and Blair be tried for war crimes?

[Kirkland Laing]

fuck the Geneva convention.

That's a very anti-American position to take.

[VictorCharlie]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

[El Kabong]

Kirkland Bush didn't singlehandedly cause the economic meltdown, you give him far too much credit and people like Bill Clinton and YOUR BOY Jimmy Carter far too little credit...I don't give any ONE person all the credit they all helped out.

"Afghanistan is the war of neccessity" - Barack Obama

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan and he earned them a war.

Whether or not they blundered in their strategy is up for debate but it is not up for debate that Afghanistan earned every single bomb that got dropped on that lousy shithole of a country.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Well telling enemy combatants to identify themselves as enemy combatants to help prevent civilian casualties has certainly worked out well

[ono]

Kirkland Bush didn't singlehandedly cause the economic meltdown, you give him far too much credit and people like Bill Clinton and YOUR BOY Jimmy Carter far too little credit...I don't give any ONE person all the credit they all helped out.

"Afghanistan is the war of neccessity" - Barack Obama

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan and he earned them a war.

Whether or not they blundered in their strategy is up for debate but it is not up for debate that Afghanistan earned every single bomb that got dropped on that lousy shithole of a country.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Well telling enemy combatants to identify themselves as enemy combatants to help prevent civilian casualties has certainly worked out well

So wiping out civillians is fine if they live in a shithole of a country?

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland Bush didn't singlehandedly cause the economic meltdown, you give him far too much credit and people like Bill Clinton and YOUR BOY Jimmy Carter far too little credit...I don't give any ONE person all the credit they all helped out.

"Afghanistan is the war of neccessity" - Barack Obama

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan and he earned them a war.

Whether or not they blundered in their strategy is up for debate but it is not up for debate that Afghanistan earned every single bomb that got dropped on that lousy shithole of a country.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Well telling enemy combatants to identify themselves as enemy combatants to help prevent civilian casualties has certainly worked out well

Explain to me exactly how Jimmy Carter caused the financial meltdown.

[VictorCharlie]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Pretty easy to say from the sideline. Lets put your life on the line and the lives of your closest friends and then see how you feel about it. The adversaries in Iraq and Afghanistan violate Geneva EVERY day. Point you judgemental finger else where. And rape? really? Please point out my post advocating rape...oh yeah not going to find one but nice attempt at a smear campaign...but fuck yeah I could have put a flamethrower to good use a couple of times.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Pretty easy to say from the sideline. Lets put your life on the line and the lives of your closest friends and then see how you feel about it. The adversaries in Iraq and Afghanistan violate Geneva EVERY day. Point you judgemental finger else where. And rape? really? Please point out my post advocating rape...oh yeah not going to find one but nice attempt at a smear campaign...but fuck yeah I could have put a flamethrower to good use a couple of times.

'why play by a set of rules when your opponent doesn't'

You said anything goes, rape is a common 'practice' of war in many countries would you like some information on it?

You think of these people as savage and barbaric which implies you think of yourself as better than them then advocate any means to fight them.

[El Kabong]

Missy why don't you just go ahead and wage jihad already I mean for fucks sake these bastards sneak attack us and you just say "oh well we had it coming let's just ignore that murderous attack on innocent civilians" (I know Kirkland thinks that)

[Nameless]

Missy why don't you just go ahead and wage jihad already I mean for fucks sake these bastards sneak attack us and you just say "oh well we had it coming let's just ignore that murderous attack on innocent civilians" (I know Kirkland thinks that)

Most Muslim are against Jihyad and have the real definition for it (which I could explain, the international colloquium we did organize about it a year and a half ago was quite enlightening). Beside, There is a difference between killing djyhadist, innocent soldiers trying to protect their land from an illegal war and killing 500 000 dollars for a very ill designed embargo which you know is killing peoples.

[Kirkland Laing]

Missy why don't you just go ahead and wage jihad already I mean for fucks sake these bastards sneak attack us and you just say "oh well we had it coming let's just ignore that murderous attack on innocent civilians" (I know Kirkland thinks that)

You don't ignore it but you don't make the situation worse by sending more military into more Muslim countries, particularly countries that had nothing to do with any terrorist attack.

[VictorCharlie]

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Pretty easy to say from the sideline. Lets put your life on the line and the lives of your closest friends and then see how you feel about it. The adversaries in Iraq and Afghanistan violate Geneva EVERY day. Point you judgemental finger else where. And rape? really? Please point out my post advocating rape...oh yeah not going to find one but nice attempt at a smear campaign...but fuck yeah I could have put a flamethrower to good use a couple of times.

'why play by a set of rules when your opponent doesn't'

You said anything goes, rape is a common 'practice' of war in many countries would you like some information on it?

You think of these people as savage and barbaric which implies you think of yourself as better than them then advocate any means to fight them.

Well Missy not being beholden to an internationally prescribed set of rules and not using good tactics in a counterinsurgency are not the same thing. Rape would not be in line with winning hearts and minds and there fore would not be a good tactic. FM 3-24 spells out pretty well the proper way to wage some military operations. A U.S. Soldier was charged with rape in Iraq and he was tried and convicted...not under Geneva but because it is against the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. We don't need Geneva to combat an insurgency effective we need good leaders down to the platoon level and competent Soldiers.

Who are "these people" you speak of and where did I describe them as savage and barbaric and where did I imply I was better?

I am curious though with your obvious extensive experience in military operations and counterinsurgency do you have a better way to combat these adversaries or simply like to point your finger?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Pretty easy to say from the sideline. Lets put your life on the line and the lives of your closest friends and then see how you feel about it. The adversaries in Iraq and Afghanistan violate Geneva EVERY day. Point you judgemental finger else where. And rape? really? Please point out my post advocating rape...oh yeah not going to find one but nice attempt at a smear campaign...but fuck yeah I could have put a flamethrower to good use a couple of times.

'why play by a set of rules when your opponent doesn't'

You said anything goes, rape is a common 'practice' of war in many countries would you like some information on it?

You think of these people as savage and barbaric which implies you think of yourself as better than them then advocate any means to fight them.

Well Missy not being beholden to an internationally prescribed set of rules and not using good tactics in a counterinsurgency are not the same thing. Rape would not be in line with winning hearts and minds and there fore would not be a good tactic. FM 3-24 spells out pretty well the proper way to wage some military operations. A U.S. Soldier was charged with rape in Iraq and he was tried and convicted...not under Geneva but because it is against the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. We don't need Geneva to combat an insurgency effective we need good leaders down to the platoon level and competent Soldiers.

Who are "these people" you speak of and where did I describe them as savage and barbaric and where did I imply I was better?

I am curious though with your obvious extensive experience in military operations and counterinsurgency do you have a better way to combat these adversaries or simply like to point your finger?

You were taking the Apocalypse Now approach to combat.
You were criticising their methods and saying international law shouldnt really matter in cases where your opponent doesn't adhere to them.
There are only two conclusions to draw from that, you either stick to international law because you think it is right and proper to do so, hence superior. If you criticise your opponent for their behaviour what else are people to think?

I study military history. Perhaps US/UK leaders should do the same, they seem to have learnt nothing from Vietnam.


The point is this, you can not win against these people.
If their culture changes it will come from within and not by your or our direct meddling.

[Kirkland Laing]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

You're not fighting a war, you're fighting a bunch of insuregents and your own generals say that military force can't beat insurgencies. It's all about hearts and minds, isn't it, not killing hundreds of thousands of people to try and "win" something that's unwinnable with violence.