Should Bush and Blair be tried for war crimes?

[VictorCharlie]

can't rep you at the moment...but good post and cheers

[CFH]

Over the last few weeks I have found myself on the same side as first Bilbo and now Lyle in two separate arguments. Suicide cannot be long now .

[Nameless]

Look it's not very complicated: According to Geneva convention and the Nurember treaties, Bush and Blair could be trial for war crime and they would most definitely lose. If it has been good against some of our old ennemies, why isn't it good for treaties we did sign ourself ? No matter how historically this is 2 eras, everybody did sign under the same rules and there should be no shallow exceptions to it.
I understand your point Vanchild and I agree with something: You cannot trial a soldier for the job he carries, just like the soldiers of the Wermarcht weren't trialed neither compared to the SS (for example). However, the political leaders which motivation is solely to steal other's ressources and to follow a personal agenda (idealism of the neo-cons in that case), that is unacceptable, especially when they order to throw bombs in the middle of the city. Human shields? in some case it's true. But definitely not all the time. The 500 000 children who died because of the stupid "Embargo didn't use human shields. Neither the prisoners at Abu Ghraib where torture has been made legal by Rumsfeld's signature with the blessing of the big boss neither. Targeting Center of Baghdad when it was not necessary at some point will also kill countless civilians, especially when a few of these missiles didn't land where they were supposed and destroyed some part of Baghdad's Market.
THey should be trialed, our countries did sign for it an it has nothing to do with their nationality, would it be a Canadian or a Martian, I would call for the same.

[Kirkland Laing]

So you're against politicians you believe lied to start an "illegal" war yet you support the scientists who gave us "Man Made Global Warming" and have been CAUGHT RED HANDED lying? Thanks, I think that about flushes what's left of your credibility down the crapper

HTH, define "clean up" and "mess".

I think the definition of MESS will be Afghanistan in 19 months....nah it's probably 10% unemployment but I guess that's still all W's fault too, maybe you should invent a law that broke and try him for that too!

And you still won't answer the question, I take it you're conceding the argument.

Where do you get that I support those scientists?

Afghanistan and the recession, mass unemployment were all caused by the war criminal Bush.

[Kirkland Laing]

fuck the Geneva convention.

That's a very anti-American position to take.

[VictorCharlie]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

[El Kabong]

Kirkland Bush didn't singlehandedly cause the economic meltdown, you give him far too much credit and people like Bill Clinton and YOUR BOY Jimmy Carter far too little credit...I don't give any ONE person all the credit they all helped out.

"Afghanistan is the war of neccessity" - Barack Obama

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan and he earned them a war.

Whether or not they blundered in their strategy is up for debate but it is not up for debate that Afghanistan earned every single bomb that got dropped on that lousy shithole of a country.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Well telling enemy combatants to identify themselves as enemy combatants to help prevent civilian casualties has certainly worked out well

[ono]

Kirkland Bush didn't singlehandedly cause the economic meltdown, you give him far too much credit and people like Bill Clinton and YOUR BOY Jimmy Carter far too little credit...I don't give any ONE person all the credit they all helped out.

"Afghanistan is the war of neccessity" - Barack Obama

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan and he earned them a war.

Whether or not they blundered in their strategy is up for debate but it is not up for debate that Afghanistan earned every single bomb that got dropped on that lousy shithole of a country.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Well telling enemy combatants to identify themselves as enemy combatants to help prevent civilian casualties has certainly worked out well

So wiping out civillians is fine if they live in a shithole of a country?

[VictorCharlie]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Pretty easy to say from the sideline. Lets put your life on the line and the lives of your closest friends and then see how you feel about it. The adversaries in Iraq and Afghanistan violate Geneva EVERY day. Point you judgemental finger else where. And rape? really? Please point out my post advocating rape...oh yeah not going to find one but nice attempt at a smear campaign...but fuck yeah I could have put a flamethrower to good use a couple of times.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Pretty easy to say from the sideline. Lets put your life on the line and the lives of your closest friends and then see how you feel about it. The adversaries in Iraq and Afghanistan violate Geneva EVERY day. Point you judgemental finger else where. And rape? really? Please point out my post advocating rape...oh yeah not going to find one but nice attempt at a smear campaign...but fuck yeah I could have put a flamethrower to good use a couple of times.

'why play by a set of rules when your opponent doesn't'

You said anything goes, rape is a common 'practice' of war in many countries would you like some information on it?

You think of these people as savage and barbaric which implies you think of yourself as better than them then advocate any means to fight them.

[El Kabong]

Missy why don't you just go ahead and wage jihad already I mean for fucks sake these bastards sneak attack us and you just say "oh well we had it coming let's just ignore that murderous attack on innocent civilians" (I know Kirkland thinks that)

[Nameless]

Missy why don't you just go ahead and wage jihad already I mean for fucks sake these bastards sneak attack us and you just say "oh well we had it coming let's just ignore that murderous attack on innocent civilians" (I know Kirkland thinks that)

Most Muslim are against Jihyad and have the real definition for it (which I could explain, the international colloquium we did organize about it a year and a half ago was quite enlightening). Beside, There is a difference between killing djyhadist, innocent soldiers trying to protect their land from an illegal war and killing 500 000 dollars for a very ill designed embargo which you know is killing peoples.

[Kirkland Laing]

Maybe so but I just don't understand the attempt to put rules and regulations on armed conflict in some way to humanize it. Personally I think killing one another is a very HUMAN trait and has been throughout history. It seems people don't like seeing how depraved we can be and feel better about it with some semblance of honor in war. Like I said there is no substitute for victory. Why play by a set of rules when your enemy doesn't? Why cling to some moral high ground when it doesn't necessarily aid winning? I don't know why people are ever suprised to look at an armed conflict and find horrible acts. It in and of itself is a horrible act.

You're not fighting a war, you're fighting a bunch of insuregents and your own generals say that military force can't beat insurgencies. It's all about hearts and minds, isn't it, not killing hundreds of thousands of people to try and "win" something that's unwinnable with violence.

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland Bush didn't singlehandedly cause the economic meltdown, you give him far too much credit and people like Bill Clinton and YOUR BOY Jimmy Carter far too little credit...I don't give any ONE person all the credit they all helped out.

"Afghanistan is the war of neccessity" - Barack Obama

Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan and he earned them a war.

Whether or not they blundered in their strategy is up for debate but it is not up for debate that Afghanistan earned every single bomb that got dropped on that lousy shithole of a country.

Yes, bring back rape and flame throwers. Top man.

Well telling enemy combatants to identify themselves as enemy combatants to help prevent civilian casualties has certainly worked out well

Explain to me exactly how Jimmy Carter caused the financial meltdown.