The most mediocre world champion of the last ten years...

[ono]

Holt also has wins over the bum that is David Diaz (if he's considered a "big win" for Manny why not for the first guy to do it), Hlatshwayo (a good solid fighter), Arnaoutis (need i say more? lol), and D-Hop

as for Campbell, did you forget that he also beat Ali Funeka? the same Funeka he dropped like a bag of bricks twice, and the same Funeka that basically dominated the undefeated Joan Guzman, and possibly the #1 or #2 guy at 135 now that Marquez has evidently left lightweight, don't try to change history cause come fight night most people had Campbell on their p4p lists and viewed the fight as a 50/50 fight, and IMO if it weren't for the headbutt Bradley still would have stopped him late

Most people had Nate Campbell on their p4p lists? Are you joking?

He probably would have stopped him, because Nate Campbell isn't a strong welterweight. The fight with Bradley was clear evidence of that.

Even Joan Guzman is a fighter who blows hot and cold. Infront of the right opposition he looks fantastic, but equally he's capable of looking crap. And again, he's another fighter who hasn't beaten anybody that's worthy of all the hype he's had on here over the last few years.

The David Diaz point...i don't think anybody saw Manny's win as 'big' it was more a case of seeing if Manny could take his power up with him. Would you say that Hlatshwayo, Mighty Mike and D-Hop are any better than Kotelnik? If so, why?

It's a never ending cycle. People have said they'd give Khan credit for beating Maidana, Holt, Campbell, Paulie etc... when none of them have done anything to suggest they are any better than Kotelnik (who he got little credit for beating).

yea most people had Campbell on their p4p lists AT THAT TIME, Guzman has solid wins over Barrios and HUMBERTO SOTO, and the Campbell/Bradley fight was at jr welter not welter, and it was already known that Campbell was unable to make 135 anymore so a jump up to 140 was inevitable, try what you may but Kotelnik was/is garbage his biggest win is against a fighter mentioned in the most mediocre champions in Reese, he got a GIFT against Maidana and then Khan smashed him, and the point that you try to suggest that the limited, feather punching Kotelnik should be rated as highly as other clearly better fighters in Malignaggi, Campbell, Holt, Maidana, Urango, J. Diaz, Hatton, Bradley, even Torres and Ngoudjo are better fighters, is just comical

next you'll be stating the same as Seanie did above and try to convince us that Reese really wasn't half bad

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Most people had Nate Campbell on their p4p lists? Are you joking?

He probably would have stopped him, because Nate Campbell isn't a strong welterweight. The fight with Bradley was clear evidence of that.

Even Joan Guzman is a fighter who blows hot and cold. Infront of the right opposition he looks fantastic, but equally he's capable of looking crap. And again, he's another fighter who hasn't beaten anybody that's worthy of all the hype he's had on here over the last few years.

The David Diaz point...i don't think anybody saw Manny's win as 'big' it was more a case of seeing if Manny could take his power up with him. Would you say that Hlatshwayo, Mighty Mike and D-Hop are any better than Kotelnik? If so, why?

It's a never ending cycle. People have said they'd give Khan credit for beating Maidana, Holt, Campbell, Paulie etc... when none of them have done anything to suggest they are any better than Kotelnik (who he got little credit for beating).

yea most people had Campbell on their p4p lists AT THAT TIME, Guzman has solid wins over Barrios and HUMBERTO SOTO, and the Campbell/Bradley fight was at jr welter not welter, and it was already known that Campbell was unable to make 135 anymore so a jump up to 140 was inevitable, try what you may but Kotelnik was/is garbage his biggest win is against a fighter mentioned in the most mediocre champions in Reese, he got a GIFT against Maidana and then Khan smashed him, and the point that you try to suggest that the limited, feather punching Kotelnik should be rated as highly as other clearly better fighters in Malignaggi, Campbell, Holt, Maidana, Urango, J. Diaz, Hatton, Bradley, even Torres and Ngoudjo are better fighters, is just comical

next you'll be stating the same as Seanie did above and try to convince us that Reese really wasn't half bad

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

[ono]

yea most people had Campbell on their p4p lists AT THAT TIME, Guzman has solid wins over Barrios and HUMBERTO SOTO, and the Campbell/Bradley fight was at jr welter not welter, and it was already known that Campbell was unable to make 135 anymore so a jump up to 140 was inevitable, try what you may but Kotelnik was/is garbage his biggest win is against a fighter mentioned in the most mediocre champions in Reese, he got a GIFT against Maidana and then Khan smashed him, and the point that you try to suggest that the limited, feather punching Kotelnik should be rated as highly as other clearly better fighters in Malignaggi, Campbell, Holt, Maidana, Urango, J. Diaz, Hatton, Bradley, even Torres and Ngoudjo are better fighters, is just comical

next you'll be stating the same as Seanie did above and try to convince us that Reese really wasn't half bad

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.
Edit: If we're getting bogged down in what ESPN think, Dan Rafael believes Kotelnik won the Maidana fight.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.

Kotelnik- a win over Reese and a gift against Maidana

sure as hell seems the weakest of the bunch

and just in case i've been saying that Kotelnik was garbage even before he fought Khan, so stop trying to make Amir a victim

[ono]

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.

Kotelnik- a win over Reese and a gift against Maidana

sure as hell seems the weakest of the bunch

and just in case i've been saying that Kotelnik was garbage even before he fought Khan, so stop trying to make Amir a victim

No he doesn't. 1) - Because he beat Maidana. Out of interest, seen as though you were so eager to point out that ESPN had Nate Campbell listed, let me say, Dan Rafael had Kotelnik winning the Maidana fight.2) - Urango's wins over Ngoudjo and Bailey aren't really any better than Kotelnik's wins over Rees and MaidanaI'm not trying to say Khan is a victim. I'm saying that to me, beating Urango, Maidana, Paulie etc...aint that much of a step up from Kotelnik. In other words, i don't see how you'd give him zero credit for beating Kotelnik but you'd give him credit for beating any of the above 3.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.

Kotelnik- a win over Reese and a gift against Maidana

sure as hell seems the weakest of the bunch

and just in case i've been saying that Kotelnik was garbage even before he fought Khan, so stop trying to make Amir a victim

No he doesn't. 1) - Because he beat Maidana. Out of interest, seen as though you were so eager to point out that ESPN had Nate Campbell listed, let me say, Dan Rafael had Kotelnik winning the Maidana fight.2) - Urango's wins over Ngoudjo and Bailey aren't really any better than Kotelnik's wins over Rees and MaidanaI'm not trying to say Khan is a victim. I'm saying that to me, beating Urango, Maidana, Paulie etc...aint that much of a step up from Kotelnik. In other words, i don't see how you'd give him zero credit for beating Kotelnik but you'd give him credit for beating any of the above 3.

i'm not even gonna bother trying to explain it anymore cause if you can't see the difference between the quality in Kotelnik and the others mentioned it's pretty clear that you're blind, Kotelnik always has and always will be garbage, not all that great technically and has the punching power of a mouse, it's pathetic, Khan needs to step it up, and if you can't see how much better and able the others are mentioned than you better quit trying cause you must be blind

[ono]

Kotelnik- a win over Reese and a gift against Maidana

sure as hell seems the weakest of the bunch

and just in case i've been saying that Kotelnik was garbage even before he fought Khan, so stop trying to make Amir a victim

No he doesn't. 1) - Because he beat Maidana. Out of interest, seen as though you were so eager to point out that ESPN had Nate Campbell listed, let me say, Dan Rafael had Kotelnik winning the Maidana fight.2) - Urango's wins over Ngoudjo and Bailey aren't really any better than Kotelnik's wins over Rees and MaidanaI'm not trying to say Khan is a victim. I'm saying that to me, beating Urango, Maidana, Paulie etc...aint that much of a step up from Kotelnik. In other words, i don't see how you'd give him zero credit for beating Kotelnik but you'd give him credit for beating any of the above 3.

i'm not even gonna bother trying to explain it anymore cause if you can't see the difference between the quality in Kotelnik and the others mentioned it's pretty clear that you're blind, Kotelnik always has and always will be garbage, not all that great technically and has the punching power of a mouse, it's pathetic, Khan needs to step it up, and if you can't see how much better and able the others are mentioned than you better quit trying cause you must be blind

I can't see it. That's why i'm asking you to show me...

[skel1983]

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.
Edit: If we're getting bogged down in what ESPN think, Dan Rafael believes Kotelnik won the Maidana fight.

Holt has a win over the 147 IBF Champ aswell well hahaha as I speak he is now the ex but Holt's resume is way better than Kotelniks.