A neutrals perspective on the Manny debate ..........

[brucelee]

It isn't so that everyone in boxing is juicing except for Manny (yeh right :P), he can rest assured that Floyd is undergoing exactly the same tests that he's having to do. If it's only about ego then Floyd and GBP have already bent on their idea of USADA testing to suit Manny. He can't have everything his way.

Also, by your logic, if this was suggested by anyone but MW (governing body maybe), it would be worthwhile? Well, everyone now wants to know if Manny's been using. Silence your critics Manny, take the damn tests.

Just to satisfy you.... Manny is waiting for Mayweather's decision now to accept the deal.

manny agreed to a random drug testing. period.

if you can't still accept that kind of testing, I don't know what will satisfy you.

or....


maybe mayweather's is truly ducking Pac now just as he has ducked Cotto and Margarito.


Don't tell me now that you're an expert on PEDs detection after I've shown you some links.

FACT is.... gayweather is making ludicrous demands as Pac had also made his.

This PED issue has to rest if the Gayweather camp really wants to pursue this fight.

Their deadline to make a decision is today.

The only thing you did was admit on another thread that you don't know anything about PED detection. The links that someone else posted only showed possible advancements in the detection of HGH and detection of EPO in urine tests. Even if both were true, those are only 2 of many PEDs. As usual your argument is weak... and again, do you have a link supporting your statement that Manny has accepted random blood testing? Are there no more little pre-madonna strings attached to this one?

so you're trying to say now that you're an expert on PEDS? that you know better than the NSAC?

if there's someone doing the "prima donna" (not pre-madonna, LOL) on this fight it's the gayweather. He's a known prima donna.

I'm not really defending Pac on this drug testing. If the drug testing is the only condition to silence PAc's critics, then I'd say to Pac, "take that ludicrous demand and take your position as an ALL- TIME GREAT coz if you're clean then that will cement your position as one of the top 5 greatest of all time".

If Pac is proven clean ( as he has already proven 10 times or more), then he truly is a very remarkable and unequaled fighter in the history of boxing.

[sanj16]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

Olympic style testing is better.
Before the first drug test.........never in the history was there drug testing.
Times move on, there has to be a first time for everything. You should always use the best that is available. This is the richest fight in history, so should be making firsts.
Mannys refusal to do something so minor that has created something so hugh is very suspicious. Common sense tells us that if he is willing to give this up, he must be keeping something more important, and not just the upper hand in negotiations. There is no point having the upper hand in a non-fight

[Saddo]

Fantastic post Jimmy as always

i am on this side of the fence also... and this little guy continues to impress me even when i thought he was giving all the advantages away he beats them at their own game.

and as for ego its the nature of the beast... look at Roy jones, mayweather and not to forget Hatton these guys climb the ladder and change although i belive it was always there with mayweather hence his slave labour quote many years ago

massive fanbase and big money fights can change the most humble of guys or atleast the team that surrounds them and why not they are the best the problem is when they meet a mirror ego imageand sometimes the fans lose out.

[Kirkland Laing]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

That's what the baseball drug cheats said. And there was no testing in baseball because there was no steroid cheating in baseball up until the end of last century. As soon as they brought it in they caught a bunch of drug cheats.

Manny hasn't failed any tests but neither did Sugar Shane, Marion Jones, a bunch of other people who we now know were drug cheats.

Since this blew up before Christmas Manny's actions and public statements are those of a guilty man.

[TheBranMan]

Just to satisfy you.... Manny is waiting for Mayweather's decision now to accept the deal.

manny agreed to a random drug testing. period.

if you can't still accept that kind of testing, I don't know what will satisfy you.

or....


maybe mayweather's is truly ducking Pac now just as he has ducked Cotto and Margarito.


Don't tell me now that you're an expert on PEDs detection after I've shown you some links.

FACT is.... gayweather is making ludicrous demands as Pac had also made his.

This PED issue has to rest if the Gayweather camp really wants to pursue this fight.

Their deadline to make a decision is today.

The only thing you did was admit on another thread that you don't know anything about PED detection. The links that someone else posted only showed possible advancements in the detection of HGH and detection of EPO in urine tests. Even if both were true, those are only 2 of many PEDs. As usual your argument is weak... and again, do you have a link supporting your statement that Manny has accepted random blood testing? Are there no more little pre-madonna strings attached to this one?

so you're trying to say now that you're an expert on PEDS? that you know better than the NSAC?

if there's someone doing the "prima donna" (not pre-madonna, LOL) on this fight it's the gayweather. He's a known prima donna.

I'm not really defending Pac on this drug testing. If the drug testing is the only condition to silence PAc's critics, then I'd say to Pac, "take that ludicrous demand and take your position as an ALL- TIME GREAT coz if you're clean then that will cement your position as one of the top 5 greatest of all time".

If Pac is proven clean ( as he has already proven 10 times or more), then he truly is a very remarkable and unequaled fighter in the history of boxing.

No, I'm saying that I know better than you. The NSCA does not believe there is a better, more reliable method of testing, they know the facts too, it's just the politics of putting them in place. There is no more reliable way of testing than random blood and urine tests. FACT.

...And please, don't start correcting my English. I make mistakes like everyone else. I'm not getting into that battle with you, a grade 3 English teacher would have a field day with some of your posts (I'm not trying to start you, I understand English probably isn't your first language).

Lastly, Pac has never proven that he isn't on PEDs. Alex Ariza has only proven that he knows when to discontinue use to beat pre-scheduled blood tests and urine tests (fairly easy thing to do).

[generalbulldog]

Actually a muscle biopsy is a sure fire way to determine if anyone is on PEDs. Marion Jones and a crapload of American athletes pass their random blood and urine samples at the Olympics. It's not even that reliable.

Floyd should pursue a muscle biopsy instead. There are minimal risks involved also.

[brucelee]

The only thing you did was admit on another thread that you don't know anything about PED detection. The links that someone else posted only showed possible advancements in the detection of HGH and detection of EPO in urine tests. Even if both were true, those are only 2 of many PEDs. As usual your argument is weak... and again, do you have a link supporting your statement that Manny has accepted random blood testing? Are there no more little pre-madonna strings attached to this one?

so you're trying to say now that you're an expert on PEDS? that you know better than the NSAC?

if there's someone doing the "prima donna" (not pre-madonna, LOL) on this fight it's the gayweather. He's a known prima donna.

I'm not really defending Pac on this drug testing. If the drug testing is the only condition to silence PAc's critics, then I'd say to Pac, "take that ludicrous demand and take your position as an ALL- TIME GREAT coz if you're clean then that will cement your position as one of the top 5 greatest of all time".

If Pac is proven clean ( as he has already proven 10 times or more), then he truly is a very remarkable and unequaled fighter in the history of boxing.

No, I'm saying that I know better than you. The NSCA does not believe there is a better, more reliable method of testing, they know the facts too, it's just the politics of putting them in place. There is no more reliable way of testing than random blood and urine tests. FACT.

...And please, don't start correcting my English. I make mistakes like everyone else. I'm not getting into that battle with you, a grade 3 English teacher would have a field day with some of your posts (I'm not trying to start you, I understand English probably isn't your first language).

Lastly, Pac has never proven that he isn't on PEDs. Alex Ariza has only proven that he knows when to discontinue use to beat pre-scheduled blood tests and urine tests (fairly easy thing to do).

LOL. Prima Donna is not English. It's Latin. I was just correcting your use of prima donna. LOL.

English is not my first language and that makes me better than you in writing. I've studied english and latin grammar for 25 years, fyi.

NOw going back to the topic, I admit that you know better than me when it comes to PEDS. I've never used one. For sure, with the way you talk about PEDs, I can deduce that you're an expert through first hand experience.

Regarding, Pac agreeing to the random drug test, I've seen it in the news that he was agreeing to it. So I must have heard it wrong if he hasn't agreed to it.

Anyway, whether Pac agreed to it or not, I'm with an unwavering belief that Pac must agree to the random drug testing to prove to the world that he's really clean.

I must admit that when the issue was not yet this bloated, I was totally against submitting to the demands of the gayweathers regarding the random drug test.

But with the current turn of events, there is an exigency now on the part of team pacquaio to abide with the gayweathers' demand (that is, if they haven't agreed to it).

Hope that satisfies you BRANMAN aka Gayweather nuthugger.

[miron_lang]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

[miron_lang]

First of all, there seems to be alot of negative bias towards Manny on this site. I can fully appreciate and understand the suspicions that have arisen regarding this affair, but whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ??

I've been reading about this for while, but as of yet, I've not bothered chipping in with my 2 cents until now. Now I like to think I'm pretty fair, and bearing in mind that Manny has battered 3 of my 4 favourite fighters of this era, it would be very easy to jump on this PED witchhunt. The bottom line is I cant, it's not fair. Until I have concrete evidence, then as far as I'm concerned, Manny is innocent.

Did I ever believe that Manny could move up to 147 and beat Oscar ? No I didnt. Do I think that win was down to PED's ? No I dont. The simple fact was that Oscar was done, shot, finished. I still give Manny props for doing what he did, but it hardly took a superhuman effort to beat what was a shadow of the Goldenboy. It was nothing more than perfect timing for Manny, and Roach knew this.

Do I think beating Hatton was the result of PED's. No I dont. I was told from someone within the Hatton camp, 3 weeks before the fight that Ricky would get knocked out. Rick had been struggling badly and getting beat up by lesser sparring partners. This KO really didnt come as a massive surprise. Even a peak Hatton would have been beaten by Manny, although not as easily. For me, Manny just had all tools required. Also, my other worry before this fight was how strong Manny looked at 147, albeit against a washed up De la Hoya. This told me that Ricky would no longer have the most important advantage in his game at 140lbs, which was his strength. If he couldnt bully Manny then he was as good as done, and he was.

Now for Cotto, did I believe that Manny would prove to be the stronger of the two as the fight went on ? No I didnt, that really defied conventional logic. But the start of Miguels demise was the fact he got hurt, badly and early, end of that story. I watched Cotto struggle at 140lbs for a while, I was very happy to see him move north and always believed he would be much better suited to 147lbs, and he was, but he was never a monster at 147lbs, like say Margarito.

The bottom line is acclimatization to the higher weight classes didnt happen overnight. This was, as far as I'm concerned, done very astutely over a period of time, and in my eyes, legally. Most fighters, even brilliant world champions, struggle to move through the weights with a great level on consistency. Very few manage to achieve what the likes of Floyd, Manny and Oscar have done in this era. But lets not forget this is a different era to years gone by. The dieting, nutritionists and the overall scientific approach that we have available for todays athletes are far superior to anything we have had before. Also, lets not forget, Floyd, Manny and Oscar are all very special fighters.

It's very easy to pass judgement on Manny, and the anti-Pac brigade are having a field day with this. It's certainly far from normal for a fighter to move from 108lbs all the way up to 147lbs and be competative with the worlds best. But it is possible, and I firmly believe that to the case with Manny, without PED's.

Why do I stand by Pacman ?

Firstly, with regards this whole testing situation. One thing I learnt from being around the Hatton camp during their negotiations with Manny is that he is a very hard man to deal with. Manny has so many people around him that he is influenced by, and to his detriment I believe. I kid you not, you would not believe all the shit that went on before Manny finally signed to fight Ricky. It was like a soap opera. From what I witnessed first hand, leads me to believe this is more a case of Manny simply not wanting to give Floyd and Co. their own way. Do I think this is a smart move by Manny ? Hell no, it's another PR disaster.

Does that make Manny guilty ? Not in my eyes, just seriously mis-informed. Manny, although his entourage exceeds that of 50 cent, loves to be his own man. His standing in his country is phenonmenal, it trancends the sport of boxing and some. With this comes an ego, albeit not one that is portrayed through the boxing media. It's Manny's terms or nothing, and this is where the ridiculous battle of ego's with Floyd has manifested. The last fighter you want to be in a battle of ego's with is Mayweather, period. And I truly believe this is what it is, and I dont see it subsiding anytime soon, which is to the obvious detriment of the game.

So why doesnt Manny just agree to the tests and be done ?

Back to the ego thing for me. He is a proud warrior, who has got, in my opinion , to where he is through hard work and a natural talent that has been brilliantly honed by Roach. In Manny's eyes why should he ? And to an extent I agree. This is round one in the mind games with Mayweather. And if he gives in to the test, Mayweather would be one up in his mind. It's very easy for us all to sit here and say, well you know what, why doesnt he just take the tests and prove everyone wrong. Should he really have to ? Ask yourself, would you ? Especially if you know yourself your clean ?

I believe the reason Manny has moved through the weights so effortlessly, and beaten who he has is through a massive improvement in his game. Roach really has created a monster in Manny. He is no longer that left- hand happy fighter of years ago. He is well and truly the full package in every area. Lightening hand speed, brilliant angles, ridiculous footwork, this all refined talent. The power he has in hands is natural, it's also the combination of freakish speed and angles that when delivered gives him that power. Speed kills, and the ones you dont see coming are the ones that hurt. Thats Manny's technique for me, and not PED's. I really dont believe any fight fan that can honestly say they havent noticed the massive improvements in Manny's technical game over the years, its nothing short of frightening.

PED's will only ever get you so far. You need a stupid amount of talent to be able to perform the way Manny has done consistently in recent times, and against the best fighters in the world may I add. You simply cannot just juice up and become the super-skilled technician Manny is, no way.

I also train and bodybuild, and I have in the past used all kinds of PEDS, over quite a few years. The one thing I have always felt is that what you increase in strength, you also lose a little in stamina, especially cardio. From training my body to playing football, these factors always became apparent to me. When I look at Manny's physique, the way his muscles are formed, the way he is cut, it does look like he may have used PED's. But you can get your body looking like that without juice, I have seen it many times. The one thing that is certain is that Manny's cardio has never been an issue, never. It's another reason I just dont feel he's guilty.

To conclude, I truly believe Manny to be a true warrior. His mentality tells me that. His skills are not in question, and I really do not believe he is the type of fighter to cheat. I just dont. Nothing about him tells me that is the case. People can jump on this anti-Pac bandwagon as much as they want. Most people on this bandwagon, if truth be known would really hope that Manny is guilty. That alone for me says everything. With all this said, I still dont believe he knows enough to beat Floyd, but thats another thread.

It's normally the media's job to build someone up then effortlessly knock them down. Manny has been a breath of freash air for the sport of boxing. He is a shining light in a sometimes dull landscape. In my opinion it is so wrong to tarnish the mans image and the sport of boxing without concrete evidence. As a fan for boxing, I truly believe we owe Manny that at the very least. Regardless whether he has battered my favourite fighters or not.

It's just my 2 cents, but as far as I'm concerned, innocent until proven guilty. I rest my case.

Great post!!!

[Kirkland Laing]

LOL. Prima Donna is not English. It's Latin.

Italian. It's etymological derivation is Latin.

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

He never won another fight again after that and just before that he'd finished the Barrera trilogy which was a career-ender in itself. Hard to argue he was still at his peak.

[TheBranMan]

so you're trying to say now that you're an expert on PEDS? that you know better than the NSAC?

if there's someone doing the "prima donna" (not pre-madonna, LOL) on this fight it's the gayweather. He's a known prima donna.

I'm not really defending Pac on this drug testing. If the drug testing is the only condition to silence PAc's critics, then I'd say to Pac, "take that ludicrous demand and take your position as an ALL- TIME GREAT coz if you're clean then that will cement your position as one of the top 5 greatest of all time".

If Pac is proven clean ( as he has already proven 10 times or more), then he truly is a very remarkable and unequaled fighter in the history of boxing.

No, I'm saying that I know better than you. The NSCA does not believe there is a better, more reliable method of testing, they know the facts too, it's just the politics of putting them in place. There is no more reliable way of testing than random blood and urine tests. FACT.

...And please, don't start correcting my English. I make mistakes like everyone else. I'm not getting into that battle with you, a grade 3 English teacher would have a field day with some of your posts (I'm not trying to start you, I understand English probably isn't your first language).

Lastly, Pac has never proven that he isn't on PEDs. Alex Ariza has only proven that he knows when to discontinue use to beat pre-scheduled blood tests and urine tests (fairly easy thing to do).

LOL. Prima Donna is not English. It's Latin. I was just correcting your use of prima donna. LOL.

English is not my first language and that makes me better than you in writing. I've studied english and latin grammar for 25 years, fyi.

NOw going back to the topic, I admit that you know better than me when it comes to PEDS. I've never used one. For sure, with the way you talk about PEDs, I can deduce that you're an expert through first hand experience.

Regarding, Pac agreeing to the random drug test, I've seen it in the news that he was agreeing to it. So I must have heard it wrong if he hasn't agreed to it.

Anyway, whether Pac agreed to it or not, I'm with an unwavering belief that Pac must agree to the random drug testing to prove to the world that he's really clean.

I must admit that when the issue was not yet this bloated, I was totally against submitting to the demands of the gayweathers regarding the random drug test.

But with the current turn of events, there is an exigency now on the part of team pacquaio to abide with the gayweathers' demand (that is, if they haven't agreed to it).

Hope that satisfies you BRANMAN aka Gayweather nuthugger.

HAHAHHA
I won't bother correcting your numerous grammar-related errors (in that post alone) as I think you've carried that argument far enough. It's too bad that you can't correct me with such fervor and honesty concerning issues such as the one pertaining to the substances that Pacquiao has almost undoubtedly been utilizing.

The fact that you've resorted to accusing me of abusing performance enhancing drugs, for being educated on the athletic science behind them, just further reveals your child-like mind-state and the fact that, regardless of how I explain your hero and countryman, you will never fade from his defense, no matter what disgraceful truths are unearthed. I bid you good luck in your dark cave of untruths and I can only pray that justice is done. I too, hope that Pacquiao agrees to Olympic-style drug testing... but he won't. Alex Ariza is too clever and too educated in his field to be caught

[brucelee]

No, I'm saying that I know better than you. The NSCA does not believe there is a better, more reliable method of testing, they know the facts too, it's just the politics of putting them in place. There is no more reliable way of testing than random blood and urine tests. FACT.

...And please, don't start correcting my English. I make mistakes like everyone else. I'm not getting into that battle with you, a grade 3 English teacher would have a field day with some of your posts (I'm not trying to start you, I understand English probably isn't your first language).

Lastly, Pac has never proven that he isn't on PEDs. Alex Ariza has only proven that he knows when to discontinue use to beat pre-scheduled blood tests and urine tests (fairly easy thing to do).

LOL. Prima Donna is not English. It's Latin. I was just correcting your use of prima donna. LOL.

English is not my first language and that makes me better than you in writing. I've studied english and latin grammar for 25 years, fyi.

NOw going back to the topic, I admit that you know better than me when it comes to PEDS. I've never used one. For sure, with the way you talk about PEDs, I can deduce that you're an expert through first hand experience.

Regarding, Pac agreeing to the random drug test, I've seen it in the news that he was agreeing to it. So I must have heard it wrong if he hasn't agreed to it.

Anyway, whether Pac agreed to it or not, I'm with an unwavering belief that Pac must agree to the random drug testing to prove to the world that he's really clean.

I must admit that when the issue was not yet this bloated, I was totally against submitting to the demands of the gayweathers regarding the random drug test.

But with the current turn of events, there is an exigency now on the part of team pacquaio to abide with the gayweathers' demand (that is, if they haven't agreed to it).

Hope that satisfies you BRANMAN aka Gayweather nuthugger.

HAHAHHA
I won't bother correcting your numerous grammar-related errors (in that post alone) as I think you've carried that argument far enough. It's too bad that you can't correct me with such fervor and honesty concerning issues such as the one pertaining to the substances that Pacquiao has almost undoubtedly been utilizing.

The fact that you've resorted to accusing me of abusing performance enhancing drugs, for being educated on the athletic science behind them, just further reveals your child-like mind-state and the fact that, regardless of how I explain your hero and countryman, you will never fade from his defense, no matter what disgraceful truths are unearthed. I bid you good luck in your dark cave of untruths and I can only pray that justice is done. I too, hope that Pacquiao agrees to Olympic-style drug testing... but he won't. Alex Ariza is too clever and too educated in his field to be caught

LOL.No worry Branman. You may correct my grammar but I know you can't. . Btw, here at Saddo, we don't mind grammar. We speak what we want. This is a boxing forum and we leave the grammar thing to the English majors.

Regarding the issue on blood testing, I'm sorry to tell you that I will defend Pac when I see that there is a reason to defend.

Anyway, with the current turn of events, I'm beginning to suspect now that Pac is on steroids or PEDs.

That's our difference Branman. I know when to stop defending my favorite fighter.

How about you? When will you stop nuthugging Gayweather?

[josef4334]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

i guess he forgot how that pre fight negotiations went. how erik got all his demands. like using the winning gloves, blood drawn 2 days before the fight. i guess if you lose to a completely shot morales you dont deserve to win anymore after that huh?

[Zilla]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

i guess he forgot how that pre fight negotiations went. how erik got all his demands. like using the winning gloves, blood drawn 2 days before the fight. i guess if you lose to a completely shot morales you dont deserve to win anymore after that huh?

So Manny can have blood drawn shortly before a fight then. So there's even less of an excuse for him to not agree to the random testing.