This is my take on it all.....

[JT Rock]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

[generalbulldog]

BTW Skel1983, I'm guessing Roberto Duran is 1 of your favorite fighters because of your sig? I remember Jazmerkin made an comparison that Pacquiao is damaging his image and legacy because of this 1 incident. And I thought he was right. Till this day the No Mas fight is still brought up, and whether Duran fans like it or not it damaged his reputation in the eyes of many and a lot of fans still bring it up. The same will happen with Pacman I believe. This damages his rep just like the No Mas fight did with Duran.

He should agree to the random blood testing. Or be lumped with another come forward aggressive warrior that many fans believed disgrace the sport.

BTW, you can't say I'm a Floyd dikrider, I was critical of him for screwing over JMM with the weight. That fight was a farce. But Mayweather is right on this one.

[skel1983]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

Makes me the end all be all? WTF you rambling on about? Are you in some sort of depression because Your hero wont be proving himself once again? Bit touchy today, put your handbag away mate it dont suit you.

[skel1983]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

Mr Big Balls??

Ok maybe I was a bit harsh but imo Majesty is one of the most biased strangest people on here and I dont like him at all, so it wasnt the on the basis of his reply alone, I have no respect for him. Now Greg I have alot of respect for and we all have our opinions on this situation and Greg is a good friend and I take his points on board. Majesty I dont hed back certain fighters no matter what the situation that's why i wrote what I did, like I say maybe I was a bit harsh bcasue he points are valid but I dont really take on board anything he says like i have also said.


Now whatever you think I couldnt give two shit's to be honest, now i doubt you would of been arsed if it was any other fighter that my comments came about but becasue it was Floyd you have to make a big deal out of it lol.

[Nameless]

Kirkland Lang posted a very good article about one of the very highest specialists on the steroids matter in another topic, the guy stated clearly that it was very easy to avoid getting caught with a 24 days window and how blood was necessary nowaday to detect steroids. Also, Victor Conte, the mastermind behind many athletes prowess, the man behind Balco, said that blood tests were vital but not for the reason we think:

"In my opinion, blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is more important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO than it is for human growth hormone. Measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter in training and especially during the later rounds of a fight."

He continues and explained later about the cycle thing;

""Creams, transdurmals, clear the fastest. Orals, would be next. Water-based drugs- including testosterone- would be next, then the oil-based. So some of these can clear in a matter of hours and days," explained Conte."So if you know when you’re going to be tested a week out, you go off the use of oral testosterone, for example, you’re going to test negative. So that is really an issue."

Victor Conte weighs in on Pacquiao v Mayweather drug testing saga.

Sorry but if the greatest cheater ever is so aware of that and give us such important and well articulated details, I quite believe what he says makes sense and that there is a reason to ask for random tests there.

[fan johnny]

Kirkland Lang posted a very good article about one of the very highest specialists on the steroids matter in another topic, the guy stated clearly that it was very easy to avoid getting caught with a 24 days window and how blood was necessary nowaday to detect steroids. Also, Victor Conte, the mastermind behind many athletes prowess, the man behind Balco, said that blood tests were vital but not for the reason we think:

"In my opinion, blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is more important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO than it is for human growth hormone. Measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter in training and especially during the later rounds of a fight."

He continues and explained later about the cycle thing;

""Creams, transdurmals, clear the fastest. Orals, would be next. Water-based drugs- including testosterone- would be next, then the oil-based. So some of these can clear in a matter of hours and days," explained Conte."So if you know when you’re going to be tested a week out, you go off the use of oral testosterone, for example, you’re going to test negative. So that is really an issue."

Victor Conte weighs in on Pacquiao v Mayweather drug testing saga.

Sorry but if the greatest cheater ever is so aware of that and give us such important and well articulated details, I quite believe what he says makes sense and that there is a reason to ask for random tests there.

Expert presented or not, I have yet to see any "evidence" that random blood tests do any good in proving the use of EPO, hgh or any other steroid use that testing immediately following a fight would not.

The above statement by Conte only says blood testing is a validator to urine testing with regards to the use of EPO.

He goes on but makes general statements about about the use of other substances but does not provide any proofs. Is he is selling himself as an expert, rather than providing testimony about the need for random blood testing? Is he actually saying this is how we catch cheaters? Or is he really saying lets go fishing! Why should boxing buy any of this and get on the same boat with this guy? How does it help boxing?

Science and the application of technologies are exacting. If you know what you are looking for, you don't need random!

[ninjaspy3]

Kirkland Lang posted a very good article about one of the very highest specialists on the steroids matter in another topic, the guy stated clearly that it was very easy to avoid getting caught with a 24 days window and how blood was necessary nowaday to detect steroids. Also, Victor Conte, the mastermind behind many athletes prowess, the man behind Balco, said that blood tests were vital but not for the reason we think:

"In my opinion, blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is more important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO than it is for human growth hormone. Measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter in training and especially during the later rounds of a fight."

He continues and explained later about the cycle thing;

""Creams, transdurmals, clear the fastest. Orals, would be next. Water-based drugs- including testosterone- would be next, then the oil-based. So some of these can clear in a matter of hours and days," explained Conte."So if you know when you’re going to be tested a week out, you go off the use of oral testosterone, for example, you’re going to test negative. So that is really an issue."

Victor Conte weighs in on Pacquiao v Mayweather drug testing saga.

Sorry but if the greatest cheater ever is so aware of that and give us such important and well articulated details, I quite believe what he says makes sense and that there is a reason to ask for random tests there.

Expert presented or not, I have yet to see any "evidence" that random blood tests do any good in proving the use of EPO, hgh or any other steroid use that testing immediately following a fight would not.

The above statement by Conte only says blood testing is a validator to urine testing with regards to the use of EPO.

He goes on but makes general statements about about the use of other substances but does not provide any proofs. Is he is selling himself as an expert, rather than providing testimony about the need for random blood testing? Is he actually saying this is how we catch cheaters? Or is he really saying lets go fishing! Why should boxing buy any of this and get on the same boat with this guy? How does it help boxing?

Science and the application of technologies are exacting. If you know what you are looking for, you don't need random!

Is your post doing anything other than derailing what seemed to be a pretty logical look at the matter?

[Kel]

I think Floyd asking for the tests was an insult to Manny. Manny refusing the tests would have been fine, Floyd does not make the rules of the commission, simple as that. But we got the "I'm scared of needles" and "It weakens me" stuff, so what are we to make of that?

Now he wants to sue Mayweather I'd prefer to take the tests and kick Floyds arse for 40 odd million. If I had nothing to hide that is.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

I think Floyd asking for the tests was an insult to Manny. Manny refusing the tests would have been fine, Floyd does not make the rules of the commission, simple as that. But we got the "I'm scared of needles" and "It weakens me" stuff, so what are we to make of that?

Now he wants to sue Mayweather I'd prefer to take the tests and kick Floyds arse for 40 odd million. If I had nothing to hide that is.

...and nomatter how you see it... In that lies the dilema.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I think Floyd asking for the tests was an insult to Manny. Manny refusing the tests would have been fine, Floyd does not make the rules of the commission, simple as that. But we got the "I'm scared of needles" and "It weakens me" stuff, so what are we to make of that?

Now he wants to sue Mayweather I'd prefer to take the tests and kick Floyds arse for 40 odd million. If I had nothing to hide that is.

I think it's obvious Manny is a politician now

[JazMerkin]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

Mr Big Balls??

Ok maybe I was a bit harsh but imo Majesty is one of the most biased strangest people on here and I dont like him at all, so it wasnt the on the basis of his reply alone, I have no respect for him. Now Greg I have alot of respect for and we all have our opinions on this situation and Greg is a good friend and I take his points on board. Majesty I dont hed back certain fighters no matter what the situation that's why i wrote what I did, like I say maybe I was a bit harsh bcasue he points are valid but I dont really take on board anything he says like i have also said.


Now whatever you think I couldnt give two shit's to be honest, now i doubt you would of been arsed if it was any other fighter that my comments came about but becasue it was Floyd you have to make a big deal out of it lol.

Well, Skel, anyone who can bang out five in a day must have sum large gonads

Anyway I think Greg answered what you said about the PEDs, but one thing I would point out is that most of these PEDs are taken in the training period & the fighter is weaned off them as they come up to the fight.

When I was working abroad, some MMA fighters at the gym I was training at basically explained this to me, although they were talking about one called Maxcell or something, which they said increased power etc. I chose not to do it because a. I'm not a cheating bastard & b. because all I could find as a reference on the net was some bioscience pages. Now, I was never actually told this 'supplement' was illegal, but I got the impression it was.

Anyway back to the point, the PEDs are used in the training period, but the benefits remain in a fight because the effects are there long after the evidence of use is gone. Also masking products like THG can be used to hide the evidence of use in urine. Hence, why blood testing is the most efficient way of finding out if someone has been using.

Actually, I tell a lie there, a muscle biopsy is the full-proof way to do it. If I was Mayweather I'd say, you can do one of two things. Follow the Olympic random testing cycle all the way up to the fight or have a post-fight muscle biopsy on your schedule.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

If I could, gentlemen...

This is how I see it...

I'll precurse this with a fact that many who know me know... I hate Mayweather. His general attitude annoys me, he tends too fight in a tedius manner(albiet brilliantly) and for all intents and purposes kind of a douche. That said, he, without a doubt belongs(regardless of whether you like him or hate him) at #2(some would say#1 with a good argument) on any P4P list... He is arguably the best defensive fighter ever... Definitly of our time.

I on the other hand think Pacquiao enbodies exactly what a champion should look like. A guy willing to fight anybody, a sharp... ferocious attack, power, speed and heart. We've watched him march through weight classes and lay waste to anyone there. He is crowd pleasing and is charismatic. He's generally fun to watch and easy to like. He's shown immense growth in his defeanse since hooking up with roach, become a better tactical fighter and throws a hell of a left hand lead now.

Now...

The way I look at any sport is when you see a guy that reaches not only the Pinnacle but set the bar so amazingly high, it raises eyebrows... and questions.

Any champion in any sport should expect these questions and be flattered by them... Flattered because they're doing it on their own... and to have people question you because you're that good... Hell, I'd be flattered.


...but then I would turn around and dispell them. That makes it all the sweeter, no?

It pains me to admit it, but I am with Floyd on this one. I think Manny is at the Pinnacle of the sport and such questions are ALWAYS asked of our "super" champions.... IN EVERY SPORT.

Manny is no different.

[Andre]

If I could, gentlemen...

This is how I see it...

I'll precurse this with a fact that many who know me know... I hate Mayweather. His general attitude annoys me, he tends too fight in a tedius manner(albiet brilliantly) and for all intents and purposes kind of a douche. That said, he, without a doubt belongs(regardless of whether you like him or hate him) at #2(some would say#1 with a good argument) on any P4P list... He is arguably the best defensive fighter ever... Definitly of our time.

I on the other hand think Pacquiao enbodies exactly what a champion should look like. A guy willing to fight anybody, a sharp... ferocious attack, power, speed and heart. We've watched him march through weight classes and lay waste to anyone there. He is crowd pleasing and is charismatic. He's generally fun to watch and easy to like. He's shown immense growth in his defeanse since hooking up with roach, become a better tactical fighter and throws a hell of a left hand lead now.

Now...

The way I look at any sport is when you see a guy that reaches not only the Pinnacle but set the bar so amazingly high, it raises eyebrows... and questions.

Any champion in any sport should expect these questions and be flattered by them... Flattered because they're doing it on their own... and to have people question you because you're that good... Hell, I'd be flattered.


...but then I would turn around and dispell them. That makes it all the sweeter, no?

It pains me to admit it, but I am with Floyd on this one. I think Manny is at the Pinnacle of the sport and such questions are ALWAYS asked of our "super" champions.... IN EVERY SPORT.

Manny is no different.

Agreed, thats as good as I've heard on the case.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

If I could, gentlemen...

This is how I see it...

I'll precurse this with a fact that many who know me know... I hate Mayweather. His general attitude annoys me, he tends too fight in a tedius manner(albiet brilliantly) and for all intents and purposes kind of a douche. That said, he, without a doubt belongs(regardless of whether you like him or hate him) at #2(some would say#1 with a good argument) on any P4P list... He is arguably the best defensive fighter ever... Definitly of our time.

I on the other hand think Pacquiao enbodies exactly what a champion should look like. A guy willing to fight anybody, a sharp... ferocious attack, power, speed and heart. We've watched him march through weight classes and lay waste to anyone there. He is crowd pleasing and is charismatic. He's generally fun to watch and easy to like. He's shown immense growth in his defeanse since hooking up with roach, become a better tactical fighter and throws a hell of a left hand lead now.

Now...

The way I look at any sport is when you see a guy that reaches not only the Pinnacle but set the bar so amazingly high, it raises eyebrows... and questions.

Any champion in any sport should expect these questions and be flattered by them... Flattered because they're doing it on their own... and to have people question you because you're that good... Hell, I'd be flattered.


...but then I would turn around and dispell them. That makes it all the sweeter, no?

It pains me to admit it, but I am with Floyd on this one. I think Manny is at the Pinnacle of the sport and such questions are ALWAYS asked of our "super" champions.... IN EVERY SPORT.

Manny is no different.

Agreed, thats as good as I've heard on the case.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

One other thing that people tend to forget(whether selectivly or otherwise...) is that this is a norm in other sports. Look at what's happened in Baseball. We get stricter as we see people get better. Why wouldn't someone think something's off when someone is capping like 50 more home runs out of the park than his closest 2nd. The difference here is there's no universal governing body so it's left to factions to squabel about like children.

[JazMerkin]

Now...

The way I look at any sport is when you see a guy that reaches not only the Pinnacle but set the bar so amazingly high, it raises eyebrows... and questions.

Any champion in any sport should expect these questions and be flattered by them... Flattered because they're doing it on their own... and to have people question you because you're that good... Hell, I'd be flattered.


...but then I would turn around and dispell them. That makes it all the sweeter, no?

This essentially tallies with what has been plaguing my mind, and has essentially led me to believe that he is up to something no good. Over the past decade or so we've seen numerous instances where someone has done something truly amazing in the world of sports, and we've then gone 'is it really possible to do that?'. When said athletes react to these insinuations, we've basically been able to divide them into two categories.

Category 1:- The athlete reacts by taking all the tests that are asked of them, even if not mandated by some kind of government body. They take an all-new battery of tests, of any kind of asked of them, and then typically whilst doing this, they keep raising the bar of what is possible, amazing us more and more with their athletic ability and all the while with every clean test they show us 'I'm for real'. Some of the athletes who've chosen this response - Lance Armstrong, Michael Johnson, Usain Bolt.

Category 2:- The other reaction is that the athlete is affronted and angered by these doubts on their ability, and they are very vocal about how they would never cheat. They typically spout things like 'I've never failed a drugs test in all my years of competing', and talk about how their gifts are not down to drugs, but to hard work and in some cases God. Often when they feel that they've been pushed too far defending their honour, they will seek to extract compensation from those who've besmirched their name in the courts. Some of the athletes who have chosen this response and whose reactions are the basis for the above examples - Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, Shane Mosley.


That's the problem here. Even if Pacquiao isn't guilty, his reaction is tallying with those who have been guilty in the recent past. This is what bothers me most of all. If he'd just said, I don't like it too near the fight and asked for 3 days to a week before the fight as a cut-off point, I'd be more inclined to believe it's pride or superstition. But he's following what feels like a well-worn path and why as much as we might want to, it's difficult to do the whole 'innocent till proven guilty' thing all over again.