This is my take on it all.....

[skel1983]

Hopefully I wont get Neg repped from the Floyd groupies this time ( JTRock )

I can't find an answer as to how the 24 days of no blood testing which means 19 to 20 days of so called "juicing" since he would need, as stated here, four or five days to clean out his blood for the post fight blood test, will effectively help Pacquiao. I also can't find any drug that can do this without the help of other drugs that will be caught in urine testing.

What specifically please, what is the name of the drug that can help Manny in a two week cycle, that does not need another drug to work with that shows up in urine testing.

Im suprised Mayweather didnt accept these terms and refuse the biggest payday of his career, imo like I have said Mayweather doesnt want to fight Pac and never has he has his heart set on Matthew Hatton.

If Mayweather really thought Pac was cheating, he would see that the tests they agreed to were enough, plus ten million of Pac's purse after the fight if he fails the test is plenty of extra incentive to move forward against a fighter you claim is "easy work".

I think he will be happier to fight Mathew Hatton, Paulie Malignaggi and than Ricky Hatton and someone else he feels he can comfortably take out. I mean, christ, look at his last fight, freaking Marquez at 145 and then he doesn't even make the weight, Marquez a guy who was not big at 130, a career 126 man, who had some great results at 35 where he debuted in his mid thirties, has to go up to 45 and Mayweather fucks him over at the last minute and doesn't even make weight (ok technically they change the contract and buy off marquez but seriously what is marquez going to do? blow the whole thing?) and in a fight he is dominating, May still plays it excruciatingly safe, almost fighting what could be considered a "negative" fight.


And he just finds a post loss world unbearable at this point in his life. He has already retired a few times and he sees his post boxing persona, the undefeated greatest boxer of all time, image with all his cheerleaders.

Yes, he wants to make money. But he can take the long way to 25 million and I think he is happy to do it.

I will be shocked if he fights any seriously risky fight after refusing this one.

[josef4334]

good post man. now if i were to post that i get my face smashed in.

[generalbulldog]

There are people on the internet saying that special steroids can be out of the system in a few hours, some are saying 1-2 hours, 16-18 hours, whatever it is. I don't know if it is true or not. I would like an scientific journal to read if this is true. Not saying I believe it. But if there are special PEDs where it can be out of the system in a few hours, wouldn't it make sense to have random blood testing up till they get into the ring?

Both guys would be doing it right? So how would FLoyd have the advantage?

[killersheep]

Hopefully I wont get Neg repped from the Floyd groupies this time ( JTRock )

I can't find an answer as to how the 24 days of no blood testing which means 19 to 20 days of so called "juicing" since he would need, as stated here, four or five days to clean out his blood for the post fight blood test, will effectively help Pacquiao. I also can't find any drug that can do this without the help of other drugs that will be caught in urine testing.

What specifically please, what is the name of the drug that can help Manny in a two week cycle, that does not need another drug to work with that shows up in urine testing.

Im suprised Mayweather didnt accept these terms and refuse the biggest payday of his career, imo like I have said Mayweather doesnt want to fight Pac and never has he has his heart set on Matthew Hatton.

If Mayweather really thought Pac was cheating, he would see that the tests they agreed to were enough, plus ten million of Pac's purse after the fight if he fails the test is plenty of extra incentive to move forward against a fighter you claim is "easy work".

I think he will be happier to fight Mathew Hatton, Paulie Malignaggi and than Ricky Hatton and someone else he feels he can comfortably take out. I mean, christ, look at his last fight, freaking Marquez at 145 and then he doesn't even make the weight, Marquez a guy who was not big at 130, a career 126 man, who had some great results at 35 where he debuted in his mid thirties, has to go up to 45 and Mayweather fucks him over at the last minute and doesn't even make weight (ok technically they change the contract and buy off marquez but seriously what is marquez going to do? blow the whole thing?) and in a fight he is dominating, May still plays it excruciatingly safe, almost fighting what could be considered a "negative" fight.


And he just finds a post loss world unbearable at this point in his life. He has already retired a few times and he sees his post boxing persona, the undefeated greatest boxer of all time, image with all his cheerleaders.

Yes, he wants to make money. But he can take the long way to 25 million and I think he is happy to do it.

I will be shocked if he fights any seriously risky fight after refusing this one.

As I replied on your other post (note I did not neg rep you).

I'll even make Mayweather look like the user here for the sake of argument

EPO is undetectible in urine in small doses it is out of the system in 48 hours for blood testing. So say the 24 day blood test comes and goes for days 23-2 Mayweather uses a small amount of EPO to augment his training, because of this he is able to pass all the blood and urine tests, but he has 3 weeks where he is able to train harder, train longer and have reduced recovery periods. If 3 weeks of augmented training doesn't constitute an advantage then I don't know what does. Now come fight night and Mayweather has been clean for the last 2-3 days his body still has the benefit of heightened fitness, but his RBC will look normal in a post fight blood test.

EPO increases the red blood cell count, which is the first sign someone is using EPO, if you can explain to me how you can detect a red blood cell count in urine, I'll admit that urine testing is sufficient. The urine test afterwards is used to confirm that some other abnormal condition in the body isn't causing an increase of red blood cells.

[JT Rock]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

[generalbulldog]

BTW Skel1983, I'm guessing Roberto Duran is 1 of your favorite fighters because of your sig? I remember Jazmerkin made an comparison that Pacquiao is damaging his image and legacy because of this 1 incident. And I thought he was right. Till this day the No Mas fight is still brought up, and whether Duran fans like it or not it damaged his reputation in the eyes of many and a lot of fans still bring it up. The same will happen with Pacman I believe. This damages his rep just like the No Mas fight did with Duran.

He should agree to the random blood testing. Or be lumped with another come forward aggressive warrior that many fans believed disgrace the sport.

BTW, you can't say I'm a Floyd dikrider, I was critical of him for screwing over JMM with the weight. That fight was a farce. But Mayweather is right on this one.

[skel1983]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

Makes me the end all be all? WTF you rambling on about? Are you in some sort of depression because Your hero wont be proving himself once again? Bit touchy today, put your handbag away mate it dont suit you.

[skel1983]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

Mr Big Balls??

Ok maybe I was a bit harsh but imo Majesty is one of the most biased strangest people on here and I dont like him at all, so it wasnt the on the basis of his reply alone, I have no respect for him. Now Greg I have alot of respect for and we all have our opinions on this situation and Greg is a good friend and I take his points on board. Majesty I dont hed back certain fighters no matter what the situation that's why i wrote what I did, like I say maybe I was a bit harsh bcasue he points are valid but I dont really take on board anything he says like i have also said.


Now whatever you think I couldnt give two shit's to be honest, now i doubt you would of been arsed if it was any other fighter that my comments came about but becasue it was Floyd you have to make a big deal out of it lol.

[Nameless]

Kirkland Lang posted a very good article about one of the very highest specialists on the steroids matter in another topic, the guy stated clearly that it was very easy to avoid getting caught with a 24 days window and how blood was necessary nowaday to detect steroids. Also, Victor Conte, the mastermind behind many athletes prowess, the man behind Balco, said that blood tests were vital but not for the reason we think:

"In my opinion, blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is more important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO than it is for human growth hormone. Measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter in training and especially during the later rounds of a fight."

He continues and explained later about the cycle thing;

""Creams, transdurmals, clear the fastest. Orals, would be next. Water-based drugs- including testosterone- would be next, then the oil-based. So some of these can clear in a matter of hours and days," explained Conte."So if you know when you’re going to be tested a week out, you go off the use of oral testosterone, for example, you’re going to test negative. So that is really an issue."

Victor Conte weighs in on Pacquiao v Mayweather drug testing saga.

Sorry but if the greatest cheater ever is so aware of that and give us such important and well articulated details, I quite believe what he says makes sense and that there is a reason to ask for random tests there.

[JazMerkin]

Damn right I neg repped you because you denigrated and insulted another poster who did nothing wrong but tried to explain to you the same way sheep did albeit less scientific but the substance of the post was dead on...

Your reply to him was.... GET FLOYDS DICK OUT OF YOUR ASS, or something as equally vulgar and unbecoming. You deserved it, it was a disgusting display or disrespect and your response to me was screw him or something like that because you felt like he had a few user names So that automatically disqualifies his opinion and makes you the end all be all

So Mr. Big Balls step up to the plate and tell Killer Sheep the same thing you told Majesty since they both are at the same juncture with all of this

Mr Big Balls??

Ok maybe I was a bit harsh but imo Majesty is one of the most biased strangest people on here and I dont like him at all, so it wasnt the on the basis of his reply alone, I have no respect for him. Now Greg I have alot of respect for and we all have our opinions on this situation and Greg is a good friend and I take his points on board. Majesty I dont hed back certain fighters no matter what the situation that's why i wrote what I did, like I say maybe I was a bit harsh bcasue he points are valid but I dont really take on board anything he says like i have also said.


Now whatever you think I couldnt give two shit's to be honest, now i doubt you would of been arsed if it was any other fighter that my comments came about but becasue it was Floyd you have to make a big deal out of it lol.

Well, Skel, anyone who can bang out five in a day must have sum large gonads

Anyway I think Greg answered what you said about the PEDs, but one thing I would point out is that most of these PEDs are taken in the training period & the fighter is weaned off them as they come up to the fight.

When I was working abroad, some MMA fighters at the gym I was training at basically explained this to me, although they were talking about one called Maxcell or something, which they said increased power etc. I chose not to do it because a. I'm not a cheating bastard & b. because all I could find as a reference on the net was some bioscience pages. Now, I was never actually told this 'supplement' was illegal, but I got the impression it was.

Anyway back to the point, the PEDs are used in the training period, but the benefits remain in a fight because the effects are there long after the evidence of use is gone. Also masking products like THG can be used to hide the evidence of use in urine. Hence, why blood testing is the most efficient way of finding out if someone has been using.

Actually, I tell a lie there, a muscle biopsy is the full-proof way to do it. If I was Mayweather I'd say, you can do one of two things. Follow the Olympic random testing cycle all the way up to the fight or have a post-fight muscle biopsy on your schedule.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

If I could, gentlemen...

This is how I see it...

I'll precurse this with a fact that many who know me know... I hate Mayweather. His general attitude annoys me, he tends too fight in a tedius manner(albiet brilliantly) and for all intents and purposes kind of a douche. That said, he, without a doubt belongs(regardless of whether you like him or hate him) at #2(some would say#1 with a good argument) on any P4P list... He is arguably the best defensive fighter ever... Definitly of our time.

I on the other hand think Pacquiao enbodies exactly what a champion should look like. A guy willing to fight anybody, a sharp... ferocious attack, power, speed and heart. We've watched him march through weight classes and lay waste to anyone there. He is crowd pleasing and is charismatic. He's generally fun to watch and easy to like. He's shown immense growth in his defeanse since hooking up with roach, become a better tactical fighter and throws a hell of a left hand lead now.

Now...

The way I look at any sport is when you see a guy that reaches not only the Pinnacle but set the bar so amazingly high, it raises eyebrows... and questions.

Any champion in any sport should expect these questions and be flattered by them... Flattered because they're doing it on their own... and to have people question you because you're that good... Hell, I'd be flattered.


...but then I would turn around and dispell them. That makes it all the sweeter, no?

It pains me to admit it, but I am with Floyd on this one. I think Manny is at the Pinnacle of the sport and such questions are ALWAYS asked of our "super" champions.... IN EVERY SPORT.

Manny is no different.

[Andre]

If I could, gentlemen...

This is how I see it...

I'll precurse this with a fact that many who know me know... I hate Mayweather. His general attitude annoys me, he tends too fight in a tedius manner(albiet brilliantly) and for all intents and purposes kind of a douche. That said, he, without a doubt belongs(regardless of whether you like him or hate him) at #2(some would say#1 with a good argument) on any P4P list... He is arguably the best defensive fighter ever... Definitly of our time.

I on the other hand think Pacquiao enbodies exactly what a champion should look like. A guy willing to fight anybody, a sharp... ferocious attack, power, speed and heart. We've watched him march through weight classes and lay waste to anyone there. He is crowd pleasing and is charismatic. He's generally fun to watch and easy to like. He's shown immense growth in his defeanse since hooking up with roach, become a better tactical fighter and throws a hell of a left hand lead now.

Now...

The way I look at any sport is when you see a guy that reaches not only the Pinnacle but set the bar so amazingly high, it raises eyebrows... and questions.

Any champion in any sport should expect these questions and be flattered by them... Flattered because they're doing it on their own... and to have people question you because you're that good... Hell, I'd be flattered.


...but then I would turn around and dispell them. That makes it all the sweeter, no?

It pains me to admit it, but I am with Floyd on this one. I think Manny is at the Pinnacle of the sport and such questions are ALWAYS asked of our "super" champions.... IN EVERY SPORT.

Manny is no different.

Agreed, thats as good as I've heard on the case.

[fan johnny]

Kirkland Lang posted a very good article about one of the very highest specialists on the steroids matter in another topic, the guy stated clearly that it was very easy to avoid getting caught with a 24 days window and how blood was necessary nowaday to detect steroids. Also, Victor Conte, the mastermind behind many athletes prowess, the man behind Balco, said that blood tests were vital but not for the reason we think:

"In my opinion, blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is more important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO than it is for human growth hormone. Measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter in training and especially during the later rounds of a fight."

He continues and explained later about the cycle thing;

""Creams, transdurmals, clear the fastest. Orals, would be next. Water-based drugs- including testosterone- would be next, then the oil-based. So some of these can clear in a matter of hours and days," explained Conte."So if you know when you’re going to be tested a week out, you go off the use of oral testosterone, for example, you’re going to test negative. So that is really an issue."

Victor Conte weighs in on Pacquiao v Mayweather drug testing saga.

Sorry but if the greatest cheater ever is so aware of that and give us such important and well articulated details, I quite believe what he says makes sense and that there is a reason to ask for random tests there.

Expert presented or not, I have yet to see any "evidence" that random blood tests do any good in proving the use of EPO, hgh or any other steroid use that testing immediately following a fight would not.

The above statement by Conte only says blood testing is a validator to urine testing with regards to the use of EPO.

He goes on but makes general statements about about the use of other substances but does not provide any proofs. Is he is selling himself as an expert, rather than providing testimony about the need for random blood testing? Is he actually saying this is how we catch cheaters? Or is he really saying lets go fishing! Why should boxing buy any of this and get on the same boat with this guy? How does it help boxing?

Science and the application of technologies are exacting. If you know what you are looking for, you don't need random!

[ninjaspy3]

Kirkland Lang posted a very good article about one of the very highest specialists on the steroids matter in another topic, the guy stated clearly that it was very easy to avoid getting caught with a 24 days window and how blood was necessary nowaday to detect steroids. Also, Victor Conte, the mastermind behind many athletes prowess, the man behind Balco, said that blood tests were vital but not for the reason we think:

"In my opinion, blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is more important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO than it is for human growth hormone. Measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter in training and especially during the later rounds of a fight."

He continues and explained later about the cycle thing;

""Creams, transdurmals, clear the fastest. Orals, would be next. Water-based drugs- including testosterone- would be next, then the oil-based. So some of these can clear in a matter of hours and days," explained Conte."So if you know when you’re going to be tested a week out, you go off the use of oral testosterone, for example, you’re going to test negative. So that is really an issue."

Victor Conte weighs in on Pacquiao v Mayweather drug testing saga.

Sorry but if the greatest cheater ever is so aware of that and give us such important and well articulated details, I quite believe what he says makes sense and that there is a reason to ask for random tests there.

Expert presented or not, I have yet to see any "evidence" that random blood tests do any good in proving the use of EPO, hgh or any other steroid use that testing immediately following a fight would not.

The above statement by Conte only says blood testing is a validator to urine testing with regards to the use of EPO.

He goes on but makes general statements about about the use of other substances but does not provide any proofs. Is he is selling himself as an expert, rather than providing testimony about the need for random blood testing? Is he actually saying this is how we catch cheaters? Or is he really saying lets go fishing! Why should boxing buy any of this and get on the same boat with this guy? How does it help boxing?

Science and the application of technologies are exacting. If you know what you are looking for, you don't need random!

Is your post doing anything other than derailing what seemed to be a pretty logical look at the matter?

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

If I could, gentlemen...

This is how I see it...

I'll precurse this with a fact that many who know me know... I hate Mayweather. His general attitude annoys me, he tends too fight in a tedius manner(albiet brilliantly) and for all intents and purposes kind of a douche. That said, he, without a doubt belongs(regardless of whether you like him or hate him) at #2(some would say#1 with a good argument) on any P4P list... He is arguably the best defensive fighter ever... Definitly of our time.

I on the other hand think Pacquiao enbodies exactly what a champion should look like. A guy willing to fight anybody, a sharp... ferocious attack, power, speed and heart. We've watched him march through weight classes and lay waste to anyone there. He is crowd pleasing and is charismatic. He's generally fun to watch and easy to like. He's shown immense growth in his defeanse since hooking up with roach, become a better tactical fighter and throws a hell of a left hand lead now.

Now...

The way I look at any sport is when you see a guy that reaches not only the Pinnacle but set the bar so amazingly high, it raises eyebrows... and questions.

Any champion in any sport should expect these questions and be flattered by them... Flattered because they're doing it on their own... and to have people question you because you're that good... Hell, I'd be flattered.


...but then I would turn around and dispell them. That makes it all the sweeter, no?

It pains me to admit it, but I am with Floyd on this one. I think Manny is at the Pinnacle of the sport and such questions are ALWAYS asked of our "super" champions.... IN EVERY SPORT.

Manny is no different.

Agreed, thats as good as I've heard on the case.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

One other thing that people tend to forget(whether selectivly or otherwise...) is that this is a norm in other sports. Look at what's happened in Baseball. We get stricter as we see people get better. Why wouldn't someone think something's off when someone is capping like 50 more home runs out of the park than his closest 2nd. The difference here is there's no universal governing body so it's left to factions to squabel about like children.