Is Israel a terrorist state?

[JazMerkin]

...and the majority of Kurds are Muslim but point taken how about Sufism?

Do you know ANYTHING about Sufism?? It's about the most peaceful belief there is. If you can find me a single Sufi terrorist from the past century I'll give you it, but you won't & can't. Yes, the majority of Kurds might be Muslim, but going off that argument than Christianity has a problem because the US & UK bombed Serbia. Hey they're all mostly Christian.

The divide is a lot bigger than Catholics and Protestants....I don't recall Catholics and Protestants bombing each others places of worship or EVER suicide bombing anyone.

So your problem isn't with bombing, it's with suicide bombing?

Damn, if only Al-Qaeda knew that if they just planted bombs rather than strapped them to themselves, they'd be alright in your book. Bombing kills people, the bomber taking his own life with it doesn't make it any worse.

Oh & read this for all the info on how Catholics & Protestants never bomb each others' places of worship

CAIN: CSC: Report: Political Rituals: Loyalist Parades in Portadown, chapter 3

A martyr in Christianity is a passive thing, it's a person that puts their faith in God and Jesus and allows an event (usually ending in their death) to happen....they don't go out and fucking murder people.

Most Muslims don't consider these lunatics martyrs, they see them as the murdering shits they are. But let's face it we in the West often make martyrs of those who kill other people. Look at how we venerate our soldiers. I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that we do it, as do other cultures. It is not in Islamic scripture that a killer is a martyr & a hero, it says quite the opposite, although you'd know that if you were to read the Quran or some kind of informed literature regarding the religion.

When I hear/see the majority of Muslims acting with some sense of perspective and some grasp on reality then maybe I'll change my stance but for right now either someone comes straight out and says "I'm a muslim and I'm 100% opposed to the radicals" or I'm going to stereotype the fuck out of them because if you're a participant in that religion and you don't adamantly stand up and shout at the top of your lungs that what the radicals do is wrong then you're either #1 One of them or #2 an enabler which is just as bad.

How many Muslims do you actually know Lyle?? I know quite a lot & of those I've known throughout my life, I'd say the vast majority, let's say 95%, have views that are more hardline on the subject than my own. Most Muslims do come out & say that but amazingly Fox News isn't broadcasting press conferences for Hamed from Bradford, Zahra from Stepney or Ali from Birmingham. They feel the same, but they also are not required to make it their sole duty in life to keep demonstrating how anti-Islamist they are. As a Christian, do you spend your whole time 'adamantly standing up and shouting at the top of your lungs' that what pro-life bombers do is wrong. I mean like all the time or do you just mention it in passing conversation. Why should it be different for them? Why should their lives be defined by what a few nutjobs who they've nothing in common with save a very vague belief in aspects of the same religion?

If my view seems just a tad offensive then tough fucking shit, I don't agree with radical Christians, I don't share the beliefs of those people that bomb abortion centers.....sure I'm not 100% pro abortion but they don't need to be bombed.

How very noble of you. Your views don't offend me, they just show me that you're largely ignorant on the subject.

Notes above Lyle

[El Kabong]

I was just making a comment on the "sectarian violence" which MAINLY occurs with the Sunni and Shia but others are involved.

My problem is with all kinds of violence, a Christian martyr doesn't KILL anyone, they just accept their own fate if that single idea was common in Islam then the world would be a better place. The IRA vs Northern Ireland was more a political fight than religious.

I know quite a few muslims and they may feel the same as your friends BUT they don't have a stage or an audience. As for me vs the "Turbo Christians" I don't have an audience or stage either....unless you know anyone

[JazMerkin]

I was just making a comment on the "sectarian violence" which MAINLY occurs with the Sunni and Shia but others are involved.

What like Western Armed Forces?? Because I'd very much like you to find me another branch of Islamic religious thought that is involved in this conflict. If it's religion you are talking about then it doesn't involve Kurds who are generally Shia.

My problem is with all kinds of violence, a Christian martyr doesn't KILL anyone, they just accept their own fate if that single idea was common in Islam then the world would be a better place. The IRA vs Northern Ireland was more a political fight than religious.

That single idea is common in Islam, but it isn't common among terrorists. That idea is common among Christianity, but it isn't among Loyalists or Republicans who die murdering people. How hard is this? Btw it wasn't the 'IRA vs Northern Ireland', the issue was far more complex than that. Northern Ireland is mixed with Catholics & Protestants. There was terrorism from BOTH sides. Both IRA (Republicans) & groups like the UDA (Loyalists). Do you really think the issue with Sunnis & Shias in Iraq isn't political. You're right it has nothing to do with Saddam's subjugation of the Shia majority. Nope, that's TOTALLY different from Northern Ireland.

I know quite a few muslims and they may feel the same as your friends BUT they don't have a stage or an audience. As for me vs the "Turbo Christians" I don't have an audience or stage either....unless you know anyone

You know quite a few Muslims, but you've never asked their opinion on this issue you care so much about?? Lyle, are they friends or are they simply people who serve you food at a restaraunt? Anyway let me understand this, you accept that most Muslims are against it, but don't have the means to show it. Who should? Tell me which Muslims with an audience you'd like to see condemning it?

Once again, notes above Lyle

[El Kabong]

OK Jaz, thanks for your "notes" and all but since you would rather be a condescending asshole than debate this topic like an educated man, I'm going to just give up on this thread.

I don't know what you think about me personally but to assume that I have no muslim friends and to insult me like that....that's uncalled for.

[JazMerkin]

OK Jaz, thanks for your "notes" and all but since you would rather be a condescending asshole than debate this topic like an educated man, I'm going to just give up on this thread.

I don't know what you think about me personally but to assume that I have no muslim friends and to insult me like that....that's uncalled for.

God almighty Lyle, you do know how to throw a strop don't you??

I don't think you're a racist or a bigot or any of the things you like to think you're being accused of, I didn't assume you had no Muslim friends, but surely if you do you have asked their opinion on this topic?

But, the fact is you're saying things as fact, when you're not that educated on the topic. I am. Do you know why you never see me commenting with authority on things like the US economy? Because I'm not informed enough about it, I'm certainly not as informed on it as you are. But on the topic of Northern Ireland/Iraq & the roots of their conflict, I am informed as it was the major part of my Politics degree looking at international conflict.

It would be nice to have a debate with you where you were maybe honest & said 'I don't know enough about that to comment' rather than posted poorly-informed opinions & throw your toys out of the pram when someone disagrees with you.

I've made it clear in the past that I actually think you're a pretty cool guy even if we differ politically, but posting stuff that isn't well-informed for the sake of it is very LeftyLee-ish (yes I just used Lefty as an adjective). You know you can post better than that. If you'd answer my questions fine, if you don't want to cool. But as you always tell me, you don't care if you offend me, so the same goes the other way.

To be honest mate;

i'd like to see Muslims openly marching in the streets with placards with their Mullahs and priests or whatever, in the lead 'Saying terrorists get out of our Religion! go make your own one, you murder ,we dont. Stop hiding amongst us, get out. You are against the compassion of Allah and his people.

I'd like to Christians marching too saying we are your brothers and sisters sorry we have killed some of you in bomb drops and kept you out of the loop in world affairs. Our leaders are quite evil like that, sorry!

Moderate Muslims March in Phoenix :: Daniel Pipes

Indian Muslims unite against terror, hold peace march

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow and West | Hundreds attend anti-terror rally

Muslims against Terrorism

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Satisfied to a point Andre?

Anyway, I do understand how you feel, this article though gives a pretty good account of how most Muslims feel about having to march against terrorists.

altmuslim - Opposing terrorism: What would marches against extremism achieve?

[El Kabong]

Jaz, I'm done with the argument, sure I could take my time explain my points a bit more carefully so that you understand where I'm coming from but after this...

"Lyle, are they friends or are they simply people who serve you food at a restaraunt?"

I'm through debating with you

[JazMerkin]

Jaz, I'm done with the argument, sure I could take my time explain my points a bit more carefully so that you understand where I'm coming from but after this...

"Lyle, are they friends or are they simply people who serve you food at a restaraunt?"

I'm through debating with you

You know Lyle, for someone who hates the likes of Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson, you sure do get as easily offended as they do. Try to lighten up & see a bit of humour, rather than taking everything in the most offensive possible way.

My argument always stems back to the issue of Israel's creation. If I owned some land and the International community then took away my land and cast me aside because they wanted to give it to a preferred group of people, I can guarantee you that I would try and forcibly remove those bastards. If that means killing them and that is what it has to come down to then so be it. I can understand the Palestinian plight and would even go as far as to say I have some empathy with suicide bombers and people willing to give up their lives for the cause. Israel has no legitimate reason for existence in my eyes. It's a phony state set up by imperialistic forces.

It is there though, and that is a huge shame. It's like a huge sore on the face of the world. I would quite like to pick it off and allow the Palestinians to inhabit fresh new skin. Now if the Palestinians would be so kind as to allow Jews to live within the borders then that would be very nice and they should give them equal rights too. But Israel is there and they will continue to get away with their occupation, settlement building and persecution of the very people who most belong there.

It's beyond me how anyone can defend a rogue state like that

Miles, you should read some of David Rose's stuff. He's a Jewish journalist, who has some great stuff regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it's definitely worth looking up his stuff.

Also it's worth reading up on the case of Thomas Hurndall to see just how vicious the Israeli state can get when outsiders try to 'threaten' it.

[Andre]

To be honest mate;

i'd like to see Muslims openly marching in the streets with placards with their Mullahs and priests or whatever, in the lead 'Saying terrorists get out of our Religion! go make your own one, you murder ,we dont. Stop hiding amongst us, get out. You are against the compassion of Allah and his people.

I'd like to Christians marching too saying we are your brothers and sisters sorry we have killed some of you in bomb drops and kept you out of the loop in world affairs. Our leaders are quite evil like that, sorry!

Moderate Muslims March in Phoenix :: Daniel Pipes

Indian Muslims unite against terror, hold peace march

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow and West | Hundreds attend anti-terror rally

Muslims against Terrorism

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Satisfied to a point Andre?

Anyway, I do understand how you feel, this article though gives a pretty good account of how most Muslims feel about having to march against terrorists.

altmuslim - Opposing terrorism: What would marches against extremism achieve?[/quote]


Yep thankyou ..burppp!

They havent done that out here from what I know!

Good on them.The largest mosque in Melbourne I think is in Carlton.They have had some trouble with the leader of that one (teaching the naughty way to educate us demons from the west). I think many are scared of his reach.

[Rantcatrat]

I voted "No." The title/basis of this thread is ridiculous. Not even worth responding to.

I've come to conclude that the Israeli/Palestinian issue will never be solved. We'll be reading about it when we're old men. Palestinians and Israeli's will never embrace the examples set forth by MLK and Ghandi as they should.

[Gandalf]

I voted "No." The title/basis of this thread is ridiculous. Not even worth responding to.

I've come to conclude that the Israeli/Palestinian issue will never be solved. We'll be reading about it when we're old men. Palestinians and Israeli's will never embrace the examples set forth by MLK and Ghandi as they should.

Israel's threat to world peace is a very serious issue and the way they go about asserting their 'authority' is by acting in a way that might be quite easily described as state sponsored terrorism. Of course, it isn't just Israel. Our own nations are guilty of the most heinous crimes against humanity too.

[Andre]

To be honest mate;

i'd like to see Muslims openly marching in the streets with placards with their Mullahs and priests or whatever, in the lead 'Saying terrorists get out of our Religion! go make your own one, you murder ,we dont. Stop hiding amongst us, get out. You are against the compassion of Allah and his people.

I'd like to Christians marching too saying we are your brothers and sisters sorry we have killed some of you in bomb drops and kept you out of the loop in world affairs. Our leaders are quite evil like that, sorry!