The definitive Mayweather/Pac article

[zbolt]

think about this, under the present normal boxing commission rules, the floyd-pacquiao could have already been made then why it's not being made?

[Greig]

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

[miron_lang]

Great article. All claims are backed by solid data .

Al Berstein and Thomas Hauser are two great boxing Journalist

[Greig]

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

[miron_lang]

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

That's (Article) the complete picture IMO. He didn't insinuate in any way that Pac is innocent but made some examples of fighters with names and date's and their cases with prohibited substances.

I think he feels that he needs to add the many errors that GBP made during the negotiation, Oscar and Schaeffer made some very elementary mistakes, Cant they remember what they said just a few months ago? and totally look moronic making statements that is the complete opposite of what they said just a few months prior.


I just wish some of the guys can write as good as Bernstein and Hauser.

for the thread Greig

[Greig]

Thanks Miron.

I haven't seen the cool click smiley in years!!

[amat]

It's an interesting viewpoint but let's not forget that Hauser has shown a propensity for dislike against Golden Boy in the past. The Judah-Mosley piece was interesting but I believe that was all Jin Mosley's fault. A Mosley-Mayweather matchup may be a little trying as far as how the testing goes.

[Zilla]

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

[blegit]

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

Yeah, that whole bandwagon trip of "Mayweather didn't want the fight" is just ignorant and blind. If Mayweather didn't want the fight he wouldn't have agreed to the $10 million/lb. penalty. And he wouldn't have went to mediation about the random testing and even conceding to Pac a 14 day window. Pac's team called the fight off and signed for another fight. If Pac didn't want to do the testing thats fine. I will not accuse him of ducking anything. But lets not make it out to be Mayweather ducking the fight. They just couldn't agree.

[Greig]

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

[killersheep]

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

[Greig]

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.

To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing. I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.

So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?

Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.

[killersheep]

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.

To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing. I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.

So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?

Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.

We don't really know who's on shit, because the testing is ineffective.

I don't think Floyd is ducking at all, if he was he could of simply demanded a ridiculous purse split, done and done. At the end of the day Mayweather was still sitting at the table, while Pacquiao and his team signed against Clottey, Pacquiao's team were the ones that the mediator corrected for making false claims, Pacquiao's team were the one's making excuses to not take the tests. If Pacquiao really wanted the fight he could have taken the blood tests with 14 days remaining before the fight to recover (from something that does not need recovery).

What you are implying here is that Mayweather KNEW that Pacquiao would refuse the tests is that correct?