The definitive Mayweather/Pac article

[Greig]

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

[miron_lang]

Great article. All claims are backed by solid data .

Al Berstein and Thomas Hauser are two great boxing Journalist

[Greig]

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

[miron_lang]

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

That's (Article) the complete picture IMO. He didn't insinuate in any way that Pac is innocent but made some examples of fighters with names and date's and their cases with prohibited substances.

I think he feels that he needs to add the many errors that GBP made during the negotiation, Oscar and Schaeffer made some very elementary mistakes, Cant they remember what they said just a few months ago? and totally look moronic making statements that is the complete opposite of what they said just a few months prior.


I just wish some of the guys can write as good as Bernstein and Hauser.

for the thread Greig

[Greig]

Thanks Miron.

I haven't seen the cool click smiley in years!!

[amat]

It's an interesting viewpoint but let's not forget that Hauser has shown a propensity for dislike against Golden Boy in the past. The Judah-Mosley piece was interesting but I believe that was all Jin Mosley's fault. A Mosley-Mayweather matchup may be a little trying as far as how the testing goes.

[blegit]

After reading this very long article I'll just go over a couple of things. First off, I am a Pac fan but I like boxing better than any fighter and I like the truth better than boxing. So I truly keep it real as far as I see. With that said, this article was not fair or balanced. Both parties made bad statements that bit them later. Freddie Roach made a number of statements as to why Pac didn't like needles, blood drawn, etc and later shown to be apparently inaccurate. I am not condemning Pac and what he is doing can, and I hope, be truly natural. But as I bicker with fellow boxing fans I do not get offended for them thinking what they think because Pac is not exactly doing typical things since moving up. The author states what Pac is doing has been done before. Really? Maybe, but who are these fighters who did this before? Pac is the only fighter in boxing history to become world champ in 7 weight classes. In Pac's 5 fights before he started moving up in several weight classes he KO'd 2 of 5 opponents. Since Pac moved in 3 different weight classes in just 4 fights he has KO'd every opponent. 4 of 4. Pac has gotten stronger p4p and quicker since moving up. Even his conditioning coach states the quicker part. Its not the fact that Pac is beating the top guys at different weight classes but how he is doing it. He basically lost maybe 2 or 3 rounds in his 4 fights against bigger and mostly top fighters. Pac may be completely clean but it is asinine to think people are wrong for thinking otherwise. Clean, done before, or not what Pac is doing is at the very least almost never done. Even ousting proven steroid cheats. Achieving more than whats been done before in light of this being the steroid era. Thats where the speculation comes from. When Barry Bonds did what never had been done before by hitting 73 HRs,in the steroid era, if you weren't a die hard fan of Bonds you soon became suspicious. Why not? He ousted everyone even steroid cheats. The author also states what BHop is doing has never been done. WRONG. George Foreman. Since BHop has been 40 he has gone 4-3. Nothing exhilarating. George Foreman turned 40 and went 17-3. Not to mention going 9-0 as a 39 year old after coming off a 10 year retirement. None of this proves anybody is right in there speculation of Pac and since Pac will not accept the random blood tests no one can say he is proven clean. But this article definitely has a purpose of defending Pac and at the very least using misleading statements to do so.

[Zilla]

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

[blegit]

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

Yeah, that whole bandwagon trip of "Mayweather didn't want the fight" is just ignorant and blind. If Mayweather didn't want the fight he wouldn't have agreed to the $10 million/lb. penalty. And he wouldn't have went to mediation about the random testing and even conceding to Pac a 14 day window. Pac's team called the fight off and signed for another fight. If Pac didn't want to do the testing thats fine. I will not accuse him of ducking anything. But lets not make it out to be Mayweather ducking the fight. They just couldn't agree.

[Greig]

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

[killersheep]

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

[Greig]

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.

To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing. I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.

So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?

Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.

[killersheep]

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.

To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing. I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.

So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?

Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.

We don't really know who's on shit, because the testing is ineffective.

I don't think Floyd is ducking at all, if he was he could of simply demanded a ridiculous purse split, done and done. At the end of the day Mayweather was still sitting at the table, while Pacquiao and his team signed against Clottey, Pacquiao's team were the ones that the mediator corrected for making false claims, Pacquiao's team were the one's making excuses to not take the tests. If Pacquiao really wanted the fight he could have taken the blood tests with 14 days remaining before the fight to recover (from something that does not need recovery).

What you are implying here is that Mayweather KNEW that Pacquiao would refuse the tests is that correct?

[Greig]

Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.

The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.


I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...