Pacquiao-Clottey does 700,000 PPV buys

[JazMerkin]

Honestly, I was actually expecting a little higher but it makes sense as Clottey isn't cared about and also, I think people under estimate the power that the 24/7 show has for fight promotion.

Also Daxx, Hatton is only a real ppv attraction in the U.K and Marquez hardly has fans. Didn't his bouts with Manny do like 200-300k? I think Floyds star power shines a little brighter than people give him credit for - Whether it was because of Oscar or not, he's still the new Mr PPV.

Hatton is a bigger name or was a bigger name then given credit for...But there are UK residents and such in the US as well....

Which just as easily affects the PPV buys for the Pac/Hatton fight as it does the PBF/Hatton fight.

Marquez has plenty of fans...As for the PPV sales for him and Manny weree not too much different then PPV sales of lower weight classes especially under 130 this is nwhy there is not too many PPV fights at that weight...

That's just flagrantly not true Daxx. Marquez does have fans, but the fact was that before the fight, they were making a big deal about how a win for Marquez over a big name like Mayweather would give him the key to the massive Mexican-American fanbase. The indication was not that he was already at that stage.

Floyd Marquez did so well because of the
A possible PBF Pacquiao bout

You can just as easily argue the same about the Pac/Cotto fight or the Pac/Clottey fight, it doesn't make it true

People wanted to see what if anything Floyd lost during the layoff

Right, but then they were still buying for Floyd right?

People wanted to see how he did win or lose against Marquez....

But, wait isn't that still an interest in Floyd...

If he won how much did he dominate...If he lost the possibility of Manny Marquez 3

Isn't that basically the same point as 'if he lost something during the layoff'?

They played big factors in that....

3 fights with Big PPV numbers that had circumstances around them do not qualiofy as the PPV King.....

You can look at almost any PPV fight in history and come up with 'circumstances around them' for why they sold well or poorly.

Is Floyd the PPV king? It takes more then the 3 bouts this is being based on to assure that..I am not saying he might not be but people are jumping the gun....The Mosley fighthas drama around it aside from them 2 finally meeting...The whole Manny PED thing will help boost the sales added with 24/7...

So basically he has to fight a shit opponent so that you will give him credit as the PPV king? Wouldn't you then just criticize him for fighting a shit opponent?

I laugh because people have compared him as the next DLH in PPV but the day Floyd is able to sell PPV the way Oscar did with shit unknown opp will be the day he is the next DLH in PPV sales

What fight did ODLH sell that well. Let's set a benchmark of 600,000 sales as the tipping point & try & find a 'shit' opponent. I'll write the reply to this bit below.

It doesn't matter what the excuses are, Floyd is the current PPV king, this fact cannot be disputed. He is the biggest draw on PPV, respect must be given for that.

Manny in his own right is a genuine superstar of the sport and has crossed over, this fact can't be denied as a lot of people on this forum say he's not a superstar and a cherry picking bum that doesn't deserve credit for his boxing career.

It's absolutely ridiculous how people can't give either of these guys the credit they deserve. If you actually grouped their haters opinions together, you have two cherry-picking, fanless, overrated, cowardly c-list fighters rather than the reality which is two almost certain ATG fighters who've beaten much bigger guys in higher divisions while building up resumes that at least bare comparisom with some of the best of the past.

Daxx, in regard to your last point about Oscar doing well against shit opponents, here is his PPV history & let's set 600,000 as the base for good sales.

Top Pay Per View Events in Boxing History

Here's the fights that did over that number.

Pernell Whitaker - 720,000
Felix Trinidad - 1.4m
Fernando Vargas - 935,000
Shane Mosley II - 950,000
Bernard Hopkins - 1m
Ricardo Mayorga - 935,000
Floyd Mayweather - It has 2.15m here, I believe it was eventually 2.4m
Manny Pacquiao - If I remember right, this was 1.2m

So which opponent was 'shit' & which of those fights DIDN'T have circumstances around it that helped it sell better.

[DaxxKahn]

Hatton is a bigger name or was a bigger name then given credit for...But there are UK residents and such in the US as well....

Which just as easily affects the PPV buys for the Pac/Hatton fight as it does the PBF/Hatton fight.

Marquez has plenty of fans...As for the PPV sales for him and Manny weree not too much different then PPV sales of lower weight classes especially under 130 this is nwhy there is not too many PPV fights at that weight...

That's just flagrantly not true Daxx. Marquez does have fans, but the fact was that before the fight, they were making a big deal about how a win for Marquez over a big name like Mayweather would give him the key to the massive Mexican-American fanbase. The indication was not that he was already at that stage.

Floyd Marquez did so well because of the
A possible PBF Pacquiao bout

You can just as easily argue the same about the Pac/Cotto fight or the Pac/Clottey fight, it doesn't make it true

People wanted to see what if anything Floyd lost during the layoff

Right, but then they were still buying for Floyd right?

People wanted to see how he did win or lose against Marquez....

But, wait isn't that still an interest in Floyd...

If he won how much did he dominate...If he lost the possibility of Manny Marquez 3

Isn't that basically the same point as 'if he lost something during the layoff'?

They played big factors in that....

3 fights with Big PPV numbers that had circumstances around them do not qualiofy as the PPV King.....

You can look at almost any PPV fight in history and come up with 'circumstances around them' for why they sold well or poorly.

Is Floyd the PPV king? It takes more then the 3 bouts this is being based on to assure that..I am not saying he might not be but people are jumping the gun....The Mosley fighthas drama around it aside from them 2 finally meeting...The whole Manny PED thing will help boost the sales added with 24/7...

So basically he has to fight a shit opponent so that you will give him credit as the PPV king? Wouldn't you then just criticize him for fighting a shit opponent?

I laugh because people have compared him as the next DLH in PPV but the day Floyd is able to sell PPV the way Oscar did with shit unknown opp will be the day he is the next DLH in PPV sales

What fight did ODLH sell that well. Let's set a benchmark of 600,000 sales as the tipping point & try & find a 'shit' opponent. I'll write the reply to this bit below.

It doesn't matter what the excuses are, Floyd is the current PPV king, this fact cannot be disputed. He is the biggest draw on PPV, respect must be given for that.

Manny in his own right is a genuine superstar of the sport and has crossed over, this fact can't be denied as a lot of people on this forum say he's not a superstar and a cherry picking bum that doesn't deserve credit for his boxing career.

It's absolutely ridiculous how people can't give either of these guys the credit they deserve. If you actually grouped their haters opinions together, you have two cherry-picking, fanless, overrated, cowardly c-list fighters rather than the reality which is two almost certain ATG fighters who've beaten much bigger guys in higher divisions while building up resumes that at least bare comparisom with some of the best of the past.

Daxx, in regard to your last point about Oscar doing well against shit opponents, here is his PPV history & let's set 600,000 as the base for good sales.

Top Pay Per View Events in Boxing History

Here's the fights that did over that number.

Pernell Whitaker - 720,000
Felix Trinidad - 1.4m
Fernando Vargas - 935,000
Shane Mosley II - 950,000
Bernard Hopkins - 1m
Ricardo Mayorga - 935,000
Floyd Mayweather - It has 2.15m here, I believe it was eventually 2.4m
Manny Pacquiao - If I remember right, this was 1.2m

So which opponent was 'shit' & which of those fights DIDN'T have circumstances around it that helped it sell better.

You also leave off a lot of other PPV fights that you have to think about the day in which they were...PPV was not always as big as it was today..

Heavyweight fights were the big earners....In 1995,96,97 etc...Matter of fact who else other then DLH under hwt was headlining PPV fights on a constant basis


To sell over 500,600 buys in 97 for a fight with a washed up Camacho..is equal to almost a million today

400,000 Buys for a fight with Javier Castillejo ...In todays PPV terms that is almost double.. What circumstances were around that?


DLH is the most successfully marketed fighter of all time that includes Tyson and anyone else for that matter....

As for someone saying before how the Pacquiao Marquez ppv did shit...It was the highest grossing PPV under 147lb weight class....
Pacquiao Marquez set PPV record for any weight class below WWQ
Pacquiao-Marquez Sets PPV Record

[DaxxKahn]

fixed it for you

Like Fenste said it was not until DLH did Floyd become a PPV attraction....Also his PPV high buys are with opponents Hatton who was a PPV attraction himself so that helped....

His return fight w Marquez and that was contributed to many expecting a for sure bout with Manny right after so curiosity on how he looked plus Marquez fans added to that buy...

I would like to see the numbers of him against someone of Clotteys status popularity wise

You can say Pacquiao wasn't a PPV attraction till DLH as well.

And that Pacquiao's fight with Clottey contributes to many expecting a bout with him and Mayweather eventually especially after the drama after the first fight falling apart, they wanna see the "guy that Pacquiao is ducking" as these sportswriters like to make it seem.

People try to make it sound like Pacquiao being foreign is a disadvantage to Mayweather being American.

The flaw in that statement is that there are a lot of American fighters on the scene to pick and choose from in different weight classes.

Pacquiao has an entire country behind them. There aren't that many Filipino stars on the world state or lining up peoples p4p lists to pick and choose from. It's more of a country pride.

In one breath people say that Pacquiao being foreign and achieving those numbers puts him ahead of Mayweather cause he is american. Yet in another breath it's said that the only reason Mayweather had big numbers with Hatton was because Hatton was foreign and had a country behind him.

Which one is it?

Being Foreign has nothing to do with it it is how you are marketed....If Pacquiao was like Chris John lets say and never fought out of his home country then he would not be the superstar he is today......Hatton fought in the United States often enough he built his own fan base here....So it had little to do with him being or not being from the UK and having a country behind them......

Plenty of American fighters on top of their game and sport that are not even well known in the boxing community in America....

[generalbulldog]

It doesn't matter what the excuses are, Floyd is the current PPV king, this fact cannot be disputed. He is the biggest draw on PPV, respect must be given for that.

Manny in his own right is a genuine superstar of the sport and has crossed over, this fact can't be denied as a lot of people on this forum say he's not a superstar and a cherry picking bum that doesn't deserve credit for his boxing career.

It's absolutely ridiculous how people can't give either of these guys the credit they deserve. If you actually grouped their haters opinions together, you have two cherry-picking, fanless, overrated, cowardly c-list fighters rather than the reality which is two almost certain ATG fighters who've beaten much bigger guys in higher divisions while building up resumes that at least bare comparisom with some of the best of the past.

Daxx, in regard to your last point about Oscar doing well against shit opponents, here is his PPV history & let's set 600,000 as the base for good sales.

Top Pay Per View Events in Boxing History

Here's the fights that did over that number.

Pernell Whitaker - 720,000
Felix Trinidad - 1.4m
Fernando Vargas - 935,000
Shane Mosley II - 950,000
Bernard Hopkins - 1m
Ricardo Mayorga - 935,000
Floyd Mayweather - It has 2.15m here, I believe it was eventually 2.4m
Manny Pacquiao - If I remember right, this was 1.2m

So which opponent was 'shit' & which of those fights DIDN'T have circumstances around it that helped it sell better.

You also leave off a lot of other PPV fights that you have to think about the day in which they were...PPV was not always as big as it was today..

Heavyweight fights were the big earners....In 1995,96,97 etc...Matter of fact who else other then DLH under hwt was headlining PPV fights on a constant basis


To sell over 500,600 buys in 97 for a fight with a washed up Camacho..is equal to almost a million today

400,000 Buys for a fight with Javier Castillejo ...In todays PPV terms that is almost double.. What circumstances were around that?


DLH is the most successfully marketed fighter of all time that includes Tyson and anyone else for that matter....

As for someone saying before how the Pacquiao Marquez ppv did shit...It was the highest grossing PPV under 147lb weight class....
Pacquiao Marquez set PPV record for any weight class below WWQ
Pacquiao-Marquez Sets PPV Record

Today Floyd is the cash cow, Oscar to his credit did incredible numbers no doubt, but Floyd is the PPV king right now, as of today, although Pac isn't that far behind and is a megastar in his own right.

Right now let's just appreciate these two, because they are making boxing more popular with casual fans in the American market and making it very popular everywhere else and are carrying the sport.

5 years from now when they are no longer on top and in retirement, we're going to reminisce about when boxing forums were split and talked about these 2 constantly. Because right now I really don't see some superstar on the horizon that can crossover like they do.

[HattonTheHammer]

It's absolutely ridiculous how people can't give either of these guys the credit they deserve. If you actually grouped their haters opinions together, you have two cherry-picking, fanless, overrated, cowardly c-list fighters rather than the reality which is two almost certain ATG fighters who've beaten much bigger guys in higher divisions while building up resumes that at least bare comparisom with some of the best of the past.

Daxx, in regard to your last point about Oscar doing well against shit opponents, here is his PPV history & let's set 600,000 as the base for good sales.

Top Pay Per View Events in Boxing History

Here's the fights that did over that number.

Pernell Whitaker - 720,000
Felix Trinidad - 1.4m
Fernando Vargas - 935,000
Shane Mosley II - 950,000
Bernard Hopkins - 1m
Ricardo Mayorga - 935,000
Floyd Mayweather - It has 2.15m here, I believe it was eventually 2.4m
Manny Pacquiao - If I remember right, this was 1.2m

So which opponent was 'shit' & which of those fights DIDN'T have circumstances around it that helped it sell better.

You also leave off a lot of other PPV fights that you have to think about the day in which they were...PPV was not always as big as it was today..

Heavyweight fights were the big earners....In 1995,96,97 etc...Matter of fact who else other then DLH under hwt was headlining PPV fights on a constant basis


To sell over 500,600 buys in 97 for a fight with a washed up Camacho..is equal to almost a million today

400,000 Buys for a fight with Javier Castillejo ...In todays PPV terms that is almost double.. What circumstances were around that?


DLH is the most successfully marketed fighter of all time that includes Tyson and anyone else for that matter....

As for someone saying before how the Pacquiao Marquez ppv did shit...It was the highest grossing PPV under 147lb weight class....
Pacquiao Marquez set PPV record for any weight class below WWQ
Pacquiao-Marquez Sets PPV Record

Today Floyd is the cash cow, Oscar to his credit did incredible numbers no doubt, but Floyd is the PPV king right now, as of today, although Pac isn't that far behind and is a megastar in his own right.

Right now let's just appreciate these two, because they are making boxing more popular with casual fans in the American market and making it very popular everywhere else and are carrying the sport.

5 years from now when they are no longer on top and in retirement, we're going to reminisce about when boxing forums were split and talked about these 2 constantly. Because right now I really don't see some superstar on the horizon that can crossover like they do.

There will always be world class fighters considered p4p greats. There legacys may not be of the standards of your floyd mayweathers or roy jones jrs but they`ll still be cash cows for a very rich sport.

5 years from now vegas will be packed out for a gamboa fight, chad dawson will be dazzling at 175/200pds. Heck we may even of established a half decent heavyweight division once the tyrany of the klitschkos has ended.

Boxing doesnt depend on it superstars as much as you might think. The p4p kings of this sport will always command world attention

[generalbulldog]

You also leave off a lot of other PPV fights that you have to think about the day in which they were...PPV was not always as big as it was today..

Heavyweight fights were the big earners....In 1995,96,97 etc...Matter of fact who else other then DLH under hwt was headlining PPV fights on a constant basis


To sell over 500,600 buys in 97 for a fight with a washed up Camacho..is equal to almost a million today

400,000 Buys for a fight with Javier Castillejo ...In todays PPV terms that is almost double.. What circumstances were around that?


DLH is the most successfully marketed fighter of all time that includes Tyson and anyone else for that matter....

As for someone saying before how the Pacquiao Marquez ppv did shit...It was the highest grossing PPV under 147lb weight class....
Pacquiao Marquez set PPV record for any weight class below WWQ
Pacquiao-Marquez Sets PPV Record

Today Floyd is the cash cow, Oscar to his credit did incredible numbers no doubt, but Floyd is the PPV king right now, as of today, although Pac isn't that far behind and is a megastar in his own right.

Right now let's just appreciate these two, because they are making boxing more popular with casual fans in the American market and making it very popular everywhere else and are carrying the sport.

5 years from now when they are no longer on top and in retirement, we're going to reminisce about when boxing forums were split and talked about these 2 constantly. Because right now I really don't see some superstar on the horizon that can crossover like they do.

There will always be world class fighters considered p4p greats. There legacys may not be of the standards of your floyd mayweathers or roy jones jrs but they`ll still be cash cows for a very rich sport.

5 years from now vegas will be packed out for a gamboa fight, chad dawson will be dazzling at 175/200pds. Heck we may even of established a half decent heavyweight division once the tyrany of the klitschkos has ended.

Boxing doesnt depend on it superstars as much as you might think. The p4p kings of this sport will always command world attention

I'm talking about a superstar in the sport that will cross over. I'm not talking about just some really good fighter that just boxing fans know. I'm talking about a mega superstar and I don't see that on the horizon, I'm not saying it won't happen after Floyd and Manny has gone, but I don't see the "it" factor that a Gamboa or Dawson brings or anyone else for that matter right now. Floyd and Manny has the "it" factor, Leonard and De La Hoya before them. Tyson in his early years in the late 80s has the "it" factor that crossed over and so did Holyfield in his prime as a HW champ. And I don't see Haye being that type of HW that can rule the division. You not only have to dominate the sport but have to have that special quality that makes one cross over into the mainstream.

The sport will always survive on a Chad Dawson or even David Haye type of fighter, but it also needs the Floyds, Mannys, Tysons, De La Hoyas, Leonards to command the attention it deserves in the mainstream.

[HattonTheHammer]

Today Floyd is the cash cow, Oscar to his credit did incredible numbers no doubt, but Floyd is the PPV king right now, as of today, although Pac isn't that far behind and is a megastar in his own right.

Right now let's just appreciate these two, because they are making boxing more popular with casual fans in the American market and making it very popular everywhere else and are carrying the sport.

5 years from now when they are no longer on top and in retirement, we're going to reminisce about when boxing forums were split and talked about these 2 constantly. Because right now I really don't see some superstar on the horizon that can crossover like they do.

There will always be world class fighters considered p4p greats. There legacys may not be of the standards of your floyd mayweathers or roy jones jrs but they`ll still be cash cows for a very rich sport.

5 years from now vegas will be packed out for a gamboa fight, chad dawson will be dazzling at 175/200pds. Heck we may even of established a half decent heavyweight division once the tyrany of the klitschkos has ended.

Boxing doesnt depend on it superstars as much as you might think. The p4p kings of this sport will always command world attention

I'm talking about a superstar in the sport that will cross over. I'm not talking about just some really good fighter that just boxing fans know. I'm talking about a mega superstar and I don't see that on the horizon, I'm not saying it won't happen after Floyd and Manny has gone, but I don't see the "it" factor that a Gamboa or Dawson brings or anyone else for that matter right now. Floyd and Manny has the "it" factor, Leonard and De La Hoya before them. Tyson in his early years in the late 80s has the "it" factor that crossed over and so did Holyfield in his prime as a HW champ. And I don't see Haye being that type of HW that can rule the division. You not only have to dominate the sport but have to have that special quality that makes one cross over into the mainstream.

The sport will always survive on a Chad Dawson or even David Haye type of fighter, but it also needs the Floyds, Mannys, Tysons, De La Hoyas, Leonards to command the attention it deserves in the mainstream.

pacquiao has the "it" factor solely on what he does in the ring. There will always be exciting dominating in ring heros to salute

Mayweather has the "it" factor in and out of the ring. He trashtalks. There will always be great fighters trash talking other great fighters.

I just dont see the argument, boxings never had a period where it hasnt had its characters and it never will. For every peoples champ there will always be a flash, cocky fighter. They may not be screaming out to us right now but i assure you when the time comes they`ll be there

[generalbulldog]

There will always be world class fighters considered p4p greats. There legacys may not be of the standards of your floyd mayweathers or roy jones jrs but they`ll still be cash cows for a very rich sport.

5 years from now vegas will be packed out for a gamboa fight, chad dawson will be dazzling at 175/200pds. Heck we may even of established a half decent heavyweight division once the tyrany of the klitschkos has ended.

Boxing doesnt depend on it superstars as much as you might think. The p4p kings of this sport will always command world attention

I'm talking about a superstar in the sport that will cross over. I'm not talking about just some really good fighter that just boxing fans know. I'm talking about a mega superstar and I don't see that on the horizon, I'm not saying it won't happen after Floyd and Manny has gone, but I don't see the "it" factor that a Gamboa or Dawson brings or anyone else for that matter right now. Floyd and Manny has the "it" factor, Leonard and De La Hoya before them. Tyson in his early years in the late 80s has the "it" factor that crossed over and so did Holyfield in his prime as a HW champ. And I don't see Haye being that type of HW that can rule the division. You not only have to dominate the sport but have to have that special quality that makes one cross over into the mainstream.

The sport will always survive on a Chad Dawson or even David Haye type of fighter, but it also needs the Floyds, Mannys, Tysons, De La Hoyas, Leonards to command the attention it deserves in the mainstream.

pacquiao has the "it" factor solely on what he does in the ring. There will always be exciting dominating in ring heros to salute

Mayweather has the "it" factor in and out of the ring. He trashtalks. There will always be great fighters trash talking other great fighters.

I just dont see the argument, boxings never had a period where it hasnt had its characters and it never will. For every peoples champ there will always be a flash, cocky fighter. They may not be screaming out to us right now but i assure you when the time comes they`ll be there

That's only part of Pac's "it" factor. Pernell Whitaker dominated in the ring but didn't cross over like Manny, Aaron Pryor dominated in the ring but didn't cross over in his day, Bernard Hopkins has been dominating the sport for a long time, but couldn't cross over. Pac also has the "it" factor outside of the ring. He's an massive star on the Asian continent not just in the Philliipines. I went on vacation in December to Hong Kong and Tokyo and they were talking about him on the streets, about a little Filipino fighter who was beating up guys bigger than him, along with his good guy image, he is an crossover star.

Floyd is no doubt a crossover star with his skills and outside personality. There's more to it than just ring dominance.

[Althugz]

[quote=DaxxKahn;853283]

I laugh because people have compared him as the next DLH in PPV but the day Floyd is able to sell PPV the way Oscar did with shit unknown opp will be the day he is the next DLH in PPV sales

That is why I was careful NOT to say "he is the new De La Hoya" because I don't think he is THAT popular just yet and like you said, there aren't enough fights to judge that on.

However, that doesn't change the fact that he IS the current PPV king who is doing ridiculous numbers - Reasons why don't really matter..it is what it is right about now. He is the current PPV king due to the numbers. Who can you think of who pulls those kind of figures?

If we're talking worldwide, I don't think Pac is far behind but in the U.S there's no question it's MM.

[Pavlik]

Pacquiao's 700,000 buys are actually good when compared to De La Hoya's pay per view history

Below is a list of Oscar De La Hoya’s pay per view buys that was put together by Andrew Eisele at about.com

Oscar De La Hoya's Pay-Per-View History
1. Rafael Ruelas (5/95) 330,000 buys = $9.9 million
2. Genaro Hernandez (9/95) 220,000 buys = $6.6 million
3. Miguel Angel Gonzalez (1/97) 345,000 buys = $12.1 million
4. Pernell Whitaker (4/97) 720,000 buys = $28.8 million
5. Hector Camacho (9/97) 560,000 buys = $22.4 million
6. Wilfredo Rivera (12/97) 240,000 buys = $9.6 million
7. Julio Cesar Chavez II ( 9/9 525,000 buys = $23.6 million
8. Ike Quartey ( 2/99) 570,000 buys =$25.7 million
9. Felix Trinidad (9/99) 1.4 million buys = $71.4 million
10. Shane Mosley (6/00) 590,000 buys = $29.5 million
11. Javier Castillejo (6/01) 400,000 buys = $16.0 million
12. Fernando Vargas (9/02) 935,000 buys = $47.8 million
13. Yory Boy Campas (5/03) 350,000 buys = $17.5 million
14. Shane Mosley II (9/03) 950,000 buys = $48.4 million
15. Felix Sturm (6/04) 380,000 buys = $19.0 million
16. Bernard Hopkins (9/04) 1 million buys = $56.0 million
17. Ricardo Mayorga (5/06) 935,000 buys = $46.3 million
18. Floyd Mayweather Jr. (5/07) 2.15 million buys = $120.0 million
Totals: 12.6 million buys = $610.6 million

[JazMerkin]

You also leave off a lot of other PPV fights that you have to think about the day in which they were...PPV was not always as big as it was today..

Heavyweight fights were the big earners....In 1995,96,97 etc...Matter of fact who else other then DLH under hwt was headlining PPV fights on a constant basis


To sell over 500,600 buys in 97 for a fight with a washed up Camacho..is equal to almost a million today

400,000 Buys for a fight with Javier Castillejo ...In todays PPV terms that is almost double.. What circumstances were around that?


DLH is the most successfully marketed fighter of all time that includes Tyson and anyone else for that matter....

As for someone saying before how the Pacquiao Marquez ppv did shit...It was the highest grossing PPV under 147lb weight class....
Pacquiao Marquez set PPV record for any weight class below WWQ
Pacquiao-Marquez Sets PPV Record

I never said Pacquiao-Marquez did shit, it did very impressively for a fight between two 130lbers, but they were also the recognized 2nd & 3rd best fighters in the world at that point.

You're also trying to twist the numbers to suit your argument. How do those numbers in 1997 & 2001 suddenly double? Economically, the average person has less now than they did then, particularly 2001.

Camacho had a fanbase and fights between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans always sell well. In addition, in his previous fight he'd beaten Ray Leonard in his comeback, so it's not like he didn't have exposure.

Castilleijo granted was a nobody, but if Oscar was PPV beast you say he would have done far more than that. Let's face it Pacquiao fought an opponent with similar name recognition & did 300,000 more.

In contrast you go on about PPV history, well here's Mayweather's

Gatti - 365,000
Judah - 375,000
Baldomir - 325,000
De La Hoya - 2.4m
Hatton - 925,000
Marquez - 1.05m

Granted there is an obvious jump after the Oscar fight, but the fact was he was doing numbers against opponents who weren't big names that aren't dissimilar to Oscar's against opponents of a similar calibre. You really seem to be unable to admit that he is the PPV king now. He may not be quite on the same level as Oscar, but as of right now he clearly is the top guy. Bulldog is right, in about five years everyone will be biitching about how Andre Berto and Devon Alexander are nowhere near the PPV stars that Mayweather & Pacquiao were.

[DaxxKahn]

You also leave off a lot of other PPV fights that you have to think about the day in which they were...PPV was not always as big as it was today..

Heavyweight fights were the big earners....In 1995,96,97 etc...Matter of fact who else other then DLH under hwt was headlining PPV fights on a constant basis


To sell over 500,600 buys in 97 for a fight with a washed up Camacho..is equal to almost a million today

400,000 Buys for a fight with Javier Castillejo ...In todays PPV terms that is almost double.. What circumstances were around that?


DLH is the most successfully marketed fighter of all time that includes Tyson and anyone else for that matter....

As for someone saying before how the Pacquiao Marquez ppv did shit...It was the highest grossing PPV under 147lb weight class....
Pacquiao Marquez set PPV record for any weight class below WWQ
Pacquiao-Marquez Sets PPV Record

I never said Pacquiao-Marquez did shit, it did very impressively for a fight between two 130lbers, but they were also the recognized 2nd & 3rd best fighters in the world at that point.

You're also trying to twist the numbers to suit your argument. How do those numbers in 1997 & 2001 suddenly double? Economically, the average person has less now than they did then, particularly 2001.

Camacho had a fanbase and fights between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans always sell well. In addition, in his previous fight he'd beaten Ray Leonard in his comeback, so it's not like he didn't have exposure.

Castilleijo granted was a nobody, but if Oscar was PPV beast you say he would have done far more than that. Let's face it Pacquiao fought an opponent with similar name recognition & did 300,000 more.

In contrast you go on about PPV history, well here's Mayweather's

Gatti - 365,000
Judah - 375,000
Baldomir - 325,000
De La Hoya - 2.4m
Hatton - 925,000
Marquez - 1.05m

Granted there is an obvious jump after the Oscar fight, but the fact was he was doing numbers against opponents who weren't big names that aren't dissimilar to Oscar's against opponents of a similar calibre. You really seem to be unable to admit that he is the PPV king now. He may not be quite on the same level as Oscar, but as of right now he clearly is the top guy. Bulldog is right, in about five years everyone will be biitching about how Andre Berto and Devon Alexander are nowhere near the PPV stars that Mayweather & Pacquiao were.

I never sai YOU said Pacquiao Marquez did shit numbers...

See you have your Underroos up in a ball because you just ignored the part that said "SOMEONE".so...I think it was Althugz...Stating Marquez has hardly any fans or something like that..At the time of the post I could not scroll down enough to check who posted it...Never said you....Get over yourself....AND Althugz did not say it in the sense to cause an argument....Just stating Marquez drawing power...

AS FOR the PPV difference between 1996-1997 and now...I am guessing you are either under 25 or know SHIT about PPV be it boxing or anywhere else..

In the Mid 1990's the only people who profited from PPV sales in a high number were HWT division fighters....Actually you can almost say Mike Tyson because he was the only real PPV attraction period then...Even when Holyfield Bowe etc did PPV it was not Tyson size....

Over the years The biggest known PPV event non HW was actually not a PPV event but a telecast event w Hagler Leonard people went to movie theaters bard etc to pay to see the fight....

The only other known PPV blockbuster every year for sure was WWE Wrestlemania.....For a fighter to do 300,000 400,000 500,000 buys non HW back then was phenominal!!!! If they were not such high buys for the time period they would not have kept putting on PPV even after PPV event with the fighter....They don't do it to lose money.....

So yes 400,000 buys 15 years later would be an almost double today....

You know kind of like how you go buy gas at 3.00 a gallon yet in 1995 it was on 1.75 a gallon

The Mayweather numbers you put up w Gatti Judah and Baldomir were shit for the time they were put up...we are talking 2005-2006....where PPV cards were on a regular basis....

Regardless of how well his numbers are now any PPV in 2005-2006 to sell under 400,000 is a bust

[JazMerkin]

I never sai YOU said Pacquiao Marquez did shit numbers...

See you have your Underroos up in a ball because you just ignored the part that said "SOMEONE".so...I think it was Althugz...Stating Marquez has hardly any fans or something like that..At the time of the post I could not scroll down enough to check who posted it...Never said you....Get over yourself....AND Althugz did not say it in the sense to cause an argument....Just stating Marquez drawing power...

Ok, you seem to be getting worked up because I misread part of your post. Why you're telling me to get over myself I don't know, I really didn't consider it a major point. I don't know where you got the impression I was having an argument, I just said I didn't say it, I didn't say 'fuck you Daxx, how dare you accuse me of saying that'. I'll have to be careful to make sure to never misread anything you say again, because it quite clearly offends you deeply.

AS FOR the PPV difference between 1996-1997 and now...I am guessing you are either under 25 or know SHIT about PPV be it boxing or anywhere else..

In the Mid 1990's the only people who profited from PPV sales in a high number were HWT division fighters....Actually you can almost say Mike Tyson because he was the only real PPV attraction period then...Even when Holyfield Bowe etc did PPV it was not Tyson size....

Over the years The biggest known PPV event non HW was actually not a PPV event but a telecast event w Hagler Leonard people went to movie theaters bard etc to pay to see the fight....

The only other known PPV blockbuster every year for sure was WWE Wrestlemania.....For a fighter to do 300,000 400,000 500,000 buys non HW back then was phenominal!!!! If they were not such high buys for the time period they would not have kept putting on PPV even after PPV event with the fighter....They don't do it to lose money.....

So yes 400,000 buys 15 years later would be an almost double today....

You know kind of like how you go buy gas at 3.00 a gallon yet in 1995 it was on 1.75 a gallon

Well, that's a shock Daxx, you went on the 'I know more about this because you're young' flex, that's not at all like you. You're right I am under 25, so if that's your criteria for someone not being eligible to have knowledge about something, you may as well stop reading now. However, I do know quite a bit about how PPV works and its history due to an essay I did on it at university.

I agree with your points on HW fights being the biggest sellers at that point and Tyson in particular, and those were very good numbers for a non-HW fight. So granted in that sense Oscar's numbers were impressive, but what they were not is worth double and I'll explain why. However, PPV was not a new phenomena by then, in fact it had become widely used since about 1992 following its success in the WWF as you said, although it was more widely used than Wrestlemania, as Royal Rumble and SummerSlam were both PPV.

The key point you make about the numbers being worth more is just not true. You give the example of the price of gas, and that is the reason why - inflation. The price of the PPVs has not actually changed in relation to the average wage until recently. If anything, now for the first time since PPV has been widespread, the cost has moved up disproportionately to the average wage. Now, unless PPV prices in the US have always been $50, (or $54.95 as it has gone up to this year) there has been a change in that sense. If anything you could argue that Pacquiao's 700,000 against Clottey is worth more than 700,000 at any prior point. I will however agree that you can make the argument that pre-1998 there was slightly less PPV use due to the technology, however it simply was not as massive a difference as to double a figure.

The Mayweather numbers you put up w Gatti Judah and Baldomir were shit for the time they were put up...we are talking 2005-2006....where PPV cards were on a regular basis....

Regardless of how well his numbers are now any PPV in 2005-2006 to sell under 400,000 is a bust

I was not trying to claim that they were good, however what they were not is a bust. Anything above 300,000 is largely better economic value than what a PPV seller would put into airing the fight for 'free' on a license fee. Like I said, they're not good numbers, but what they are not is bad. All three of those fights were considered successes by HBO, and the only fight to dramatically outdo them in that timeframe was Oscar-Mayorga.

As I previously said, Oscar's PPV history is definitely better, but it's not as dramatic a difference as you suggest.

[DaxxKahn]

I never sai YOU said Pacquiao Marquez did shit numbers...

See you have your Underroos up in a ball because you just ignored the part that said "SOMEONE".so...I think it was Althugz...Stating Marquez has hardly any fans or something like that..At the time of the post I could not scroll down enough to check who posted it...Never said you....Get over yourself....AND Althugz did not say it in the sense to cause an argument....Just stating Marquez drawing power...

Ok, you seem to be getting worked up because I misread part of your post. Why you're telling me to get over myself I don't know, I really didn't consider it a major point. I don't know where you got the impression I was having an argument, I just said I didn't say it, I didn't say 'fuck you Daxx, how dare you accuse me of saying that'. I'll have to be careful to make sure to never misread anything you say again, because it quite clearly offends you deeply.

AS FOR the PPV difference between 1996-1997 and now...I am guessing you are either under 25 or know SHIT about PPV be it boxing or anywhere else..

In the Mid 1990's the only people who profited from PPV sales in a high number were HWT division fighters....Actually you can almost say Mike Tyson because he was the only real PPV attraction period then...Even when Holyfield Bowe etc did PPV it was not Tyson size....

Over the years The biggest known PPV event non HW was actually not a PPV event but a telecast event w Hagler Leonard people went to movie theaters bard etc to pay to see the fight....

The only other known PPV blockbuster every year for sure was WWE Wrestlemania.....For a fighter to do 300,000 400,000 500,000 buys non HW back then was phenominal!!!! If they were not such high buys for the time period they would not have kept putting on PPV even after PPV event with the fighter....They don't do it to lose money.....

So yes 400,000 buys 15 years later would be an almost double today....

You know kind of like how you go buy gas at 3.00 a gallon yet in 1995 it was on 1.75 a gallon

Well, that's a shock Daxx, you went on the 'I know more about this because you're young' flex, that's not at all like you. You're right I am under 25, so if that's your criteria for someone not being eligible to have knowledge about something, you may as well stop reading now. However, I do know quite a bit about how PPV works and its history due to an essay I did on it at university.

I agree with your points on HW fights being the biggest sellers at that point and Tyson in particular, and those were very good numbers for a non-HW fight. So granted in that sense Oscar's numbers were impressive, but what they were not is worth double and I'll explain why. However, PPV was not a new phenomena by then, in fact it had become widely used since about 1992 following its success in the WWF as you said, although it was more widely used than Wrestlemania, as Royal Rumble and SummerSlam were both PPV.

The key point you make about the numbers being worth more is just not true. You give the example of the price of gas, and that is the reason why - inflation. The price of the PPVs has not actually changed in relation to the average wage until recently. If anything, now for the first time since PPV has been widespread, the cost has moved up disproportionately to the average wage. Now, unless PPV prices in the US have always been $50, (or $54.95 as it has gone up to this year) there has been a change in that sense. If anything you could argue that Pacquiao's 700,000 against Clottey is worth more than 700,000 at any prior point. I will however agree that you can make the argument that pre-1998 there was slightly less PPV use due to the technology, however it simply was not as massive a difference as to double a figure.

The Mayweather numbers you put up w Gatti Judah and Baldomir were shit for the time they were put up...we are talking 2005-2006....where PPV cards were on a regular basis....

Regardless of how well his numbers are now any PPV in 2005-2006 to sell under 400,000 is a bust

I was not trying to claim that they were good, however what they were not is a bust. Anything above 300,000 is largely better economic value than what a PPV seller would put into airing the fight for 'free' on a license fee. Like I said, they're not good numbers, but what they are not is bad. All three of those fights were considered successes by HBO, and the only fight to dramatically outdo them in that timeframe was Oscar-Mayorga.

As I previously said, Oscar's PPV history is definitely better, but it's not as dramatic a difference as you suggest.

Don't be mistaken I am not mad and I am not taking this personal...I actually felt you were that is why I posted the part about READ MY POST......You seemed upset about the whole part about me saying numbers from back could be considered double today....So my point was just that since you were taking PPV numbers from the last couple years w Floyd you have to think about the time it was in and that is what made tyhose low numbers impressive for the era of PPV...

[DaxxKahn]

I never sai YOU said Pacquiao Marquez did shit numbers...

See you have your Underroos up in a ball because you just ignored the part that said "SOMEONE".so...I think it was Althugz...Stating Marquez has hardly any fans or something like that..At the time of the post I could not scroll down enough to check who posted it...Never said you....Get over yourself....AND Althugz did not say it in the sense to cause an argument....Just stating Marquez drawing power...

Ok, you seem to be getting worked up because I misread part of your post. Why you're telling me to get over myself I don't know, I really didn't consider it a major point. I don't know where you got the impression I was having an argument, I just said I didn't say it, I didn't say 'fuck you Daxx, how dare you accuse me of saying that'. I'll have to be careful to make sure to never misread anything you say again, because it quite clearly offends you deeply.

AS FOR the PPV difference between 1996-1997 and now...I am guessing you are either under 25 or know SHIT about PPV be it boxing or anywhere else..

In the Mid 1990's the only people who profited from PPV sales in a high number were HWT division fighters....Actually you can almost say Mike Tyson because he was the only real PPV attraction period then...Even when Holyfield Bowe etc did PPV it was not Tyson size....

Over the years The biggest known PPV event non HW was actually not a PPV event but a telecast event w Hagler Leonard people went to movie theaters bard etc to pay to see the fight....

The only other known PPV blockbuster every year for sure was WWE Wrestlemania.....For a fighter to do 300,000 400,000 500,000 buys non HW back then was phenominal!!!! If they were not such high buys for the time period they would not have kept putting on PPV even after PPV event with the fighter....They don't do it to lose money.....

So yes 400,000 buys 15 years later would be an almost double today....

You know kind of like how you go buy gas at 3.00 a gallon yet in 1995 it was on 1.75 a gallon

Well, that's a shock Daxx, you went on the 'I know more about this because you're young' flex, that's not at all like you. You're right I am under 25, so if that's your criteria for someone not being eligible to have knowledge about something, you may as well stop reading now. However, I do know quite a bit about how PPV works and its history due to an essay I did on it at university.

I agree with your points on HW fights being the biggest sellers at that point and Tyson in particular, and those were very good numbers for a non-HW fight. So granted in that sense Oscar's numbers were impressive, but what they were not is worth double and I'll explain why. However, PPV was not a new phenomena by then, in fact it had become widely used since about 1992 following its success in the WWF as you said, although it was more widely used than Wrestlemania, as Royal Rumble and SummerSlam were both PPV.

The key point you make about the numbers being worth more is just not true. You give the example of the price of gas, and that is the reason why - inflation. The price of the PPVs has not actually changed in relation to the average wage until recently. If anything, now for the first time since PPV has been widespread, the cost has moved up disproportionately to the average wage. Now, unless PPV prices in the US have always been $50, (or $54.95 as it has gone up to this year) there has been a change in that sense. If anything you could argue that Pacquiao's 700,000 against Clottey is worth more than 700,000 at any prior point. I will however agree that you can make the argument that pre-1998 there was slightly less PPV use due to the technology, however it simply was not as massive a difference as to double a figure.

The Mayweather numbers you put up w Gatti Judah and Baldomir were shit for the time they were put up...we are talking 2005-2006....where PPV cards were on a regular basis....

Regardless of how well his numbers are now any PPV in 2005-2006 to sell under 400,000 is a bust

I was not trying to claim that they were good, however what they were not is a bust. Anything above 300,000 is largely better economic value than what a PPV seller would put into airing the fight for 'free' on a license fee. Like I said, they're not good numbers, but what they are not is bad. All three of those fights were considered successes by HBO, and the only fight to dramatically outdo them in that timeframe was Oscar-Mayorga.

As I previously said, Oscar's PPV history is definitely better, but it's not as dramatic a difference as you suggest.

Don't be mistaken I am not mad and I am not taking this personal...I actually felt you were that is why I posted the part about READ MY POST......You seemed upset about the whole part about me saying numbers from back could be considered double today....So my point was just that since you were taking PPV numbers from the last couple years w Floyd you have to think about the time it was in and that is what made those low numbers impressive for the era of PPV they were sold in.....

As for my stating about age...It had nothing to do with if you are not a certain age you must not know what you are talking about...If it came across that way I apologize and I can see how it could be taken that way....My point on it was that being younger more then likely you did not purchase PPV events back then and may not realize that unlike today PPV was not that common...Today we have what 4 or 5 a month....