Anybody think a Prime Vitali, would've beaten a Prime Lewis?

[Beanflicker]

I think for you guys to talk like he has no chance is crazy. Look what Bruno and Mercer were able to do against a prime Lewis. Vitali has a good shot against any heavyweight who ever lived because of his style, skill and physical attributes. For people to say "No, because Lewis is an ATG and Vitali is not" is absolutely retarded IMO.

In a fight, it don't matter how you're regarded, who you fought, how good your division is, ect ect. Its what you bring to the table that night. Lewis brings a lot to the table, but so does Vitali.

IMO it could go either way.

[LBSCFC]

I think for you guys to talk like he has no chance is crazy. Look what Bruno and Mercer were able to do against a prime Lewis. Vitali has a good shot against any heavyweight who ever lived because of his style, skill and physical attributes. For people to say "No, because Lewis is an ATG and Vitali is not" is absolutely retarded IMO.

In a fight, it don't matter how you're regarded, who you fought, how good your division is, ect ect. Its what you bring to the table that night. Lewis brings a lot to the table, but so does Vitali.

IMO it could go either way.

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

[JonesJrMayweather]

I think for you guys to talk like he has no chance is crazy. Look what Bruno and Mercer were able to do against a prime Lewis. Vitali has a good shot against any heavyweight who ever lived because of his style, skill and physical attributes. For people to say "No, because Lewis is an ATG and Vitali is not" is absolutely retarded IMO.

In a fight, it don't matter how you're regarded, who you fought, how good your division is, ect ect. Its what you bring to the table that night. Lewis brings a lot to the table, but so does Vitali.

IMO it could go either way.

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

Lewis was in shape for another fight..Vitaly had two weeks to train for fight against the hw champ...very difficult to say how that fight would have looked had vitaly been allowed to train..he may have sparked lewis early

[Taeth]

Lennox being my favorite heavyweight ever would win more often than not, he is like a Klitschko sized David Haye with a better chin, but if anyone in the history of the heavyweight division IMO could beat Lennox at his best its Klitschko nobody else has the size, skill, and chin to compete with Lennox.

I also argue that it wasn't Lennox's best performance but clearly Klitschko made Lennox look a lot worse than he is/was. I think Klitschko had a very difficult style for Lennox who never liked fighting jabbers that much.

[JonesJrMayweather]

I think lewis is great, but I wouldn't ride off so quickly saying Vitali doesn't belong. Vitali is a beast IMO. Came at the wrong time. Prime v Prime Vitaly beats, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Mercer, Moorer, Grant, Tua, Ruiz, Botha, Buster douglass, Seldon, Berbick, McCall, Rahman, Bruno, Bowe, HW Spinks... If you're a Tyson fan and can't admit that, then at least one can admit that Vitaly would beat every champion that LEWIS, TYSON, HOLYFIELD all got their belts from prime v prime. Which at least puts him at the dinner table. and Honestly I think between Tyson, holy, lewis and Vitaly. Tyson would be 0-4, Holyfield 1-3, and Lewis or Vitaly would either be 3-1 or 4-0 __________________

[ryanman]

I think lewis is great, but I wouldn't ride off so quickly saying Vitali doesn't belong. Vitali is a beast IMO. Came at the wrong time. Prime v Prime Vitaly beats, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Mercer, Moorer, Grant, Tua, Ruiz, Botha, Buster douglass, Seldon, Berbick, McCall, Rahman, Bruno, Bowe, HW Spinks... If you're a Tyson fan and can't admit that, then at least one can admit that Vitaly would beat every champion that LEWIS, TYSON, HOLYFIELD all got their belts from prime v prime. Which at least puts him at the dinner table. and Honestly I think between Tyson, holy, lewis and Vitaly. Tyson would be 0-4, Holyfield 1-3, and Lewis or Vitaly would either be 3-1 or 4-0 __________________

Haven't you already posted that exact same post?

[JonesJrMayweather]

I think lewis is great, but I wouldn't ride off so quickly saying Vitali doesn't belong. Vitali is a beast IMO. Came at the wrong time. Prime v Prime Vitaly beats, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Mercer, Moorer, Grant, Tua, Ruiz, Botha, Buster douglass, Seldon, Berbick, McCall, Rahman, Bruno, Bowe, HW Spinks... If you're a Tyson fan and can't admit that, then at least one can admit that Vitaly would beat every champion that LEWIS, TYSON, HOLYFIELD all got their belts from prime v prime. Which at least puts him at the dinner table. and Honestly I think between Tyson, holy, lewis and Vitaly. Tyson would be 0-4, Holyfield 1-3, and Lewis or Vitaly would either be 3-1 or 4-0 __________________

Haven't you already posted that exact same post?

Figured it would be easier than to just keep saying the same thing only slightly differently..

[El Kabong]

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

....he also approached him on Lewis' farewell fight so you could see how Lennox perhaps took preparing for Kirk Johnson a bit more serious than he was given credit for.

It's a tricky fight to discuss for various reasons, it was a short notice fight for both fighters, there was a bad cut that was a freak accident, and that cut ended the fight and nothing else.

Sure there were more cuts but can we say for certain that if the big cut over the eye didn't happen that any of the other cuts would have happened?

[DaxxKahn]

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

....he also approached him on Lewis' farewell fight so you could see how Lennox perhaps took preparing for Kirk Johnson a bit more serious than he was given credit for.

It's a tricky fight to discuss for various reasons, it was a short notice fight for both fighters, there was a bad cut that was a freak accident, and that cut ended the fight and nothing else.

Sure there were more cuts but can we say for certain that if the big cut over the eye didn't happen that any of the other cuts would have happened?

Not too mention neither man had ever faced another opp who was as physically strong as the other...Sure Lewis had met Akinwande and Grant but Akinwande was garbage and held for dear life and Grant was just destroyed with no chance what so ever to even land a shot....

So IMO it took both men by surprise how tough the inside fighting was...Lewis trained for a shot Johnson and trained poorly.....He was looking at a jab straight right KO by 6th fight not what was coming from a prime Vitaly

[rjj tszyu]

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

....he also approached him on Lewis' farewell fight so you could see how Lennox perhaps took preparing for Kirk Johnson a bit more serious than he was given credit for.

It's a tricky fight to discuss for various reasons, it was a short notice fight for both fighters, there was a bad cut that was a freak accident, and that cut ended the fight and nothing else.

Sure there were more cuts but can we say for certain that if the big cut over the eye didn't happen that any of the other cuts would have happened?

Well no we can't say anything would have happened had another thing not, there are all kinds of reasoning for this such as Lewis seeing blood and then targeting Vitalis face more frequently and gaining more confidence which he may not have otherwise, but they are only ifs and maybes. All we can go on is what happened for sure and that was that Lewis cut Vitali quite badly and that won him the fight in a very even contest IMO. Had it gone on without the cuts happening I would have gone for Lewis to win on points eventually taking over, but then again Vitali must have been losing strength and energy with the blood he was losing from the facial wounds.

All in all though the thread was aimed at prime vs prime and IMO Lewis was a way past his prime whereas Vitali was pretty much peaking when they did fight so my conclusion has to be that a prime Lewis without any of the mistakes he could be prone to (see McCall I and Rahman I) would beat a prime Klitschko.

[Dave Hughey]

It took a long time before Lewis was recognized as a great champ. Americans just weren't happy to see a Brit champion. Now it's taking even longer for Americans to give Vitali his due. He was whipping Lewis' before and after that cut. Now the excuse is that Lewis was past his prime. LOL

p.s. I'm American and proud of it. Doesn't mean I have to be stupid about it.

[ryanman]

It took a long time before Lewis was recognized as a great champ. Americans just weren't happy to see a Brit champion. Now it's taking even longer for Americans to give Vitali his due. He was whipping Lewis' before and after that cut. Now the excuse is that Lewis was past his prime. LOL

p.s. I'm American and proud of it. Doesn't mean I have to be stupid about it.

He clearly wasn't WHIPPING him.

[El Kabong]

He clearly wasn't WHIPPING him.

...the scorecards say Vitali was up 58-56 in a fight that got stopped in the 6th that's a pretty wide margin, considering

[ninjaspy3]

It took a long time before Lewis was recognized as a great champ. Americans just weren't happy to see a Brit champion. Now it's taking even longer for Americans to give Vitali his due. He was whipping Lewis' before and after that cut. Now the excuse is that Lewis was past his prime. LOL

p.s. I'm American and proud of it. Doesn't mean I have to be stupid about it.

too late?

[Dave Hughey]

What I mean by "whipping" is defined by what I saw, which was clear to me. And it's backed up by all three scorecards 58-56 (4 rounds to 2) at the time of the stoppage. And here are the punch stats, which I think are pretty impressive and tell the tale.

Total Punches
Lewis Klitschko
Landed 102 156
Thrown 222 432
Pct. 46% 36%

Jabs: Lewis Klitschko
Landed 52 77
Thrown 120 240
Pct. 43% 32%

Power Punches
Lewis Klitschko
Landed 50 79
Thrown 102 192
Pct. 49% 41%

I didn't make these up! LOL, but the stats are pretty lop-sided, and the three judges were scoring against the reigning champ. That's why I say Lewis was getting whipped.