Anybody think a Prime Vitali, would've beaten a Prime Lewis?

[El Kabong]

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

....he also approached him on Lewis' farewell fight so you could see how Lennox perhaps took preparing for Kirk Johnson a bit more serious than he was given credit for.

It's a tricky fight to discuss for various reasons, it was a short notice fight for both fighters, there was a bad cut that was a freak accident, and that cut ended the fight and nothing else.

Sure there were more cuts but can we say for certain that if the big cut over the eye didn't happen that any of the other cuts would have happened?

[ninjaspy3]

Funny. I haven't been on this forum as long as many people but even I am amazed at how many times this topic has come up again.

Anyway, there is a lot of speculation, and I would like to avoid that.
But from what I can tell watching them fight,

I'm not sure Vitali's cut lowered his performance... that is unless he was unable to see out of that eye. I dont know the answer to that one because I dont believe it was stated anywhere if he could see out of that eye without problems.

Best way to sum it up is Vitali was quick to get into the rythem but Lewis got in eventually too. Both showed some good heart. Lewis wasnt the only one who had to hang on after a well placed punch. Vitali did too. I think thats the closest Ive ever seen to Vitali being in trouble, and it hasnt happened again since then.

I think a prime lewis (logically) would have put out a better performance. It just makes sense to me. Why try to write Lewis off? People seem to agree that Lewis on that night was not a prime version.

[DaxxKahn]

I think for you guys to talk like he has no chance is crazy. Look what Bruno and Mercer were able to do against a prime Lewis. Vitali has a good shot against any heavyweight who ever lived because of his style, skill and physical attributes. For people to say "No, because Lewis is an ATG and Vitali is not" is absolutely retarded IMO.

In a fight, it don't matter how you're regarded, who you fought, how good your division is, ect ect. Its what you bring to the table that night. Lewis brings a lot to the table, but so does Vitali.

IMO it could go either way.

Lewis had yet to reach his prime when he fought Bruno...Or Mercer...Mercer in 1996 was hell for anyone ever..His chin was granite and he never stopped coming forward.....

Lewis prime started around the Golota fight IMO even after

[DaxxKahn]

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

....he also approached him on Lewis' farewell fight so you could see how Lennox perhaps took preparing for Kirk Johnson a bit more serious than he was given credit for.

It's a tricky fight to discuss for various reasons, it was a short notice fight for both fighters, there was a bad cut that was a freak accident, and that cut ended the fight and nothing else.

Sure there were more cuts but can we say for certain that if the big cut over the eye didn't happen that any of the other cuts would have happened?

Not too mention neither man had ever faced another opp who was as physically strong as the other...Sure Lewis had met Akinwande and Grant but Akinwande was garbage and held for dear life and Grant was just destroyed with no chance what so ever to even land a shot....

So IMO it took both men by surprise how tough the inside fighting was...Lewis trained for a shot Johnson and trained poorly.....He was looking at a jab straight right KO by 6th fight not what was coming from a prime Vitaly

[rjj tszyu]

the point is that Klitschko was approaching him prime when he fought Lewis in 2003 and Lewis was past his prime. A prime Lewis would have been much sharper and probably would have busted up Klitschko the same way or at least outboxed him

....he also approached him on Lewis' farewell fight so you could see how Lennox perhaps took preparing for Kirk Johnson a bit more serious than he was given credit for.

It's a tricky fight to discuss for various reasons, it was a short notice fight for both fighters, there was a bad cut that was a freak accident, and that cut ended the fight and nothing else.

Sure there were more cuts but can we say for certain that if the big cut over the eye didn't happen that any of the other cuts would have happened?

Well no we can't say anything would have happened had another thing not, there are all kinds of reasoning for this such as Lewis seeing blood and then targeting Vitalis face more frequently and gaining more confidence which he may not have otherwise, but they are only ifs and maybes. All we can go on is what happened for sure and that was that Lewis cut Vitali quite badly and that won him the fight in a very even contest IMO. Had it gone on without the cuts happening I would have gone for Lewis to win on points eventually taking over, but then again Vitali must have been losing strength and energy with the blood he was losing from the facial wounds.

All in all though the thread was aimed at prime vs prime and IMO Lewis was a way past his prime whereas Vitali was pretty much peaking when they did fight so my conclusion has to be that a prime Lewis without any of the mistakes he could be prone to (see McCall I and Rahman I) would beat a prime Klitschko.

[Dave Hughey]

It took a long time before Lewis was recognized as a great champ. Americans just weren't happy to see a Brit champion. Now it's taking even longer for Americans to give Vitali his due. He was whipping Lewis' before and after that cut. Now the excuse is that Lewis was past his prime. LOL

p.s. I'm American and proud of it. Doesn't mean I have to be stupid about it.

[ryanman]

It took a long time before Lewis was recognized as a great champ. Americans just weren't happy to see a Brit champion. Now it's taking even longer for Americans to give Vitali his due. He was whipping Lewis' before and after that cut. Now the excuse is that Lewis was past his prime. LOL

p.s. I'm American and proud of it. Doesn't mean I have to be stupid about it.

He clearly wasn't WHIPPING him.

[ninjaspy3]

It took a long time before Lewis was recognized as a great champ. Americans just weren't happy to see a Brit champion. Now it's taking even longer for Americans to give Vitali his due. He was whipping Lewis' before and after that cut. Now the excuse is that Lewis was past his prime. LOL

p.s. I'm American and proud of it. Doesn't mean I have to be stupid about it.

too late?

[El Kabong]

He clearly wasn't WHIPPING him.

...the scorecards say Vitali was up 58-56 in a fight that got stopped in the 6th that's a pretty wide margin, considering

[BIG H]

He clearly wasn't WHIPPING him.

...the scorecards say Vitali was up 58-56 in a fight that got stopped in the 6th that's a pretty wide margin, considering

And reality says that Vitali needed a new face, whilst Lewis hardly had a scratch.

[ninjaspy3]

He clearly wasn't WHIPPING him.

...the scorecards say Vitali was up 58-56 in a fight that got stopped in the 6th that's a pretty wide margin, considering

Please dont insinuate that because of a 2 point lead on the cards that Vitali was "whipping" Lewis. I'm sure we have seen lopsided victories on the cards where very little "whipping" took place.

Despite the cards, the fight was pretty even. Now, if we have beaten this horse enough....

[ryanman]

He clearly wasn't WHIPPING him.

...the scorecards say Vitali was up 58-56 in a fight that got stopped in the 6th that's a pretty wide margin, considering

Come on Lyle, he wasn't whipping him was he? Winning definately, but it was a close competitive fight.

Obviously nobody knows what would have happened had it not been for the cut. I'm of the opinion that Lewis had really started getting to him but thats not to say I think he was on his way to victory or anything. My best guess is that it would have tightened up and both would have seen the final bell and that a good case could have been made for either when it came to scoring. I was gutted for Vitali when it was stopped and I think thats part of the reason that I have a (non-gay) affection for him now.

[BIG H]

Not that the scorcards matter, when somebody has inflicted that much damage, but I think there is a good case that the fight was even after 6 anyway.

[El Kabong]

Yes close and competitive....a little too much so for Lewis' liking I am sure. Lennox got a little lucky, Vitali was a little unlucky and that was about it. Vitali won over the fans and Lewis got to ride off into the sunset with his legacy intact

What bothers me are the Lewis supporters that act like Lennox was going to win 100% for sure cut or no cut stoppage or no stoppage and they give Vitali less than 0 credit for taking a fight vs THE CHAMP on short notice....but they can never state enough about how Lennox was supposed to fight Kirk Johnson. Vitali was going to fight Cedric Boswell...I mean who really had to step up their game more??

[Dave Hughey]

What I mean by "whipping" is defined by what I saw, which was clear to me. And it's backed up by all three scorecards 58-56 (4 rounds to 2) at the time of the stoppage. And here are the punch stats, which I think are pretty impressive and tell the tale.

Total Punches
Lewis Klitschko
Landed 102 156
Thrown 222 432
Pct. 46% 36%

Jabs: Lewis Klitschko
Landed 52 77
Thrown 120 240
Pct. 43% 32%

Power Punches
Lewis Klitschko
Landed 50 79
Thrown 102 192
Pct. 49% 41%

I didn't make these up! LOL, but the stats are pretty lop-sided, and the three judges were scoring against the reigning champ. That's why I say Lewis was getting whipped.