Is Boxing a couple years away from a huge decline?

[0james0]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

[Kev]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

[boozeboxer]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

Uncle Bob knew that Tony Margarito had very limited appeal as an aging fighter who did not speak english. In fact, I think he did a helluva job with what he had.

[boozeboxer]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

[Scrap]

The 1st time I heard this was 50 years ago, nothing changes

[generalbulldog]

The 1st time I heard this was 50 years ago, nothing changes

Exactly there was an old article, I think from sports illustrated that I read a while back, it was probably a 1961 or 1962 issue, and they said the same thing. And we all know how the upcoming years turned out. then when A guy like Ali came and left the scene, they say boxing is dead, then came Tyson a few years later on the scene and the battle of the 4 legends in the 80s. The 90s were great also, the 00s has been pretty good too.

This whole boxing is dead or will be dead has been around for decades. Same shit every year and every decade.

[Kev]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

I think the UFC is already generating more PPV revenue annually than HBO now. UFC 100 took 1.5 million buys which makes it the 5th most succesful PPV ever behind the likes of Mayweather De La Hoya and Tyson Lewis.

They are consistently getting in the high hundred thousands for every UFC show, and that's whilst boxing still has Manny and Floyd.

My guess is that once those two leave the big UFC stars will be the stars of combat sports in general.

It is a very real possiblity.

And I know peoplesay boxing will always be number 1, but it hasn't had to compete with MMA until now.

I do think it's possible (not necessarily likely) that MMA will take over as the preferred contact combat sport over the next few years, unless boxing can get some fighters with real pulling power.

[kheserthorpe]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

[eagle]

I believe for a guy to become a big PPV star he really needs to beat a well known older established fighter to get him in the limelight....

With DLH, other than the gold medal win his name was really mad beating Chavez and Whitaker.
Mosely really became known when he beat ODLH
Floyd became known when he beat Oscar and Gatti.
Cotto's name got more recognition when he beat Mosely.
Who knew Hopkins before he beat Tito and Oscar?

The trouble is the real big names dont fight to many up and comers these days.

Dawson would be a big name now if he could have fought and beat Hopkins, Jones and Calzaghe. But those guys werent gonna fight him when they would have a big chance at losing for little money.

Another example is the winner of the super 6. That guy will get heaps of credit from the hardcore boxing fans but not much from your casual fan. Put him in with Calzaghe or Hopkins tho and if he wins he is a much bigger star overnight.

[Kirkland Laing]

Boxing will find new stars easily enough. Guys that win in entertaining fights suddenly get more coverage, people get to know them and that's it. If they're on Showtime and they're good they'll end up moving to HBO. Like the Super Six winner will almost certainly be fighting Bute (provided he keeps winning) on HBO the first fight after he wins. If there looks to be a dearth of PPV potential fighters out there HBO will pick a deep division and match four top fighters against each other.

You may get one or two years when there's a bit of a lull but nothing to worry about long term. MMA or UFC or whatever will do its own thing, people will always be watching boxing.

[boozeboxer]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

I would completely agree with the effort to learn about upcoming bouts, except for superfights. Cheers.

[HattonTheHammer]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

I would completely agree with the effort to learn about upcoming bouts, except for superfights. Cheers.

we`ve been over this already

UFC sells packages containing 5-6 world title fights a night with the best fighting the best every single time

boxing sells fights, nobody pays 60 bucks to watch a intercontinental title on the undercard they pay for the fight at hand.

Had saturday had of had a card containing the months major boxing events we would of had...

mayweather-mosley,
arreola-adamek,
angulo-julio,
kessler-froch,
dirrell-abraham,
martinez-pavlik,
williams-cintron

Still think even the greatest UFC PPV of all time could compete with that?

[Kev]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

This post is very interesting, and concerning I feel.

If you look at that you HAVE to be worried for boxing as the premier combat sport.

I mean the year's biggest superfight, the welterweight showdown between Mayweather and Mosley takes less PPV's than the Lesnar Mir showdown

That's alarming frankly and when Manny and Floyd leave I can't see any of the current lot getting over 450,000 buys.

Meanwhile MMA is going from strength to strength and guys like Lesnar, St Pierre and Silva are only going to increase in popularity.

[boozeboxer]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

This post is very interesting, and concerning I feel.

If you look at that you HAVE to be worried for boxing as the premier combat sport.

I mean the year's biggest superfight, the welterweight showdown between Mayweather and Mosley takes less PPV's than the Lesnar Mir showdown

That's alarming frankly and when Manny and Floyd leave I can't see any of the current lot getting over 450,000 buys.

Meanwhile MMA is going from strength to strength and guys like Lesnar, St Pierre and Silva are only going to increase in popularity.

I just don't see the cross-over. I have had friends who were hard-core alternative lifestyle fight fans and they would never put money down for a boxing match. I would never put money down to watch dry humping.

Would they have put money down for a boxing match had these alternative lifestyle fights not existed? I doubt it. These are stupid friends I know who they themselves proclaim, "don't want to watch a 12 round boxing match."
Simply, watching guys on the floor for 6 is easier for them to follow.

[generalbulldog]

BTW, I remember reading that the UFC numbers are only verified by the UFC themselves and that the public records are not released like say HBO's on PPV numbers. So the numbers right there may be fudged up a little bit.

MMA in my eyes is like comparing the NFL to the EPL. The NFL while being hugely popular in America and a few neighboring countries like Canada isn't on par with the EPL which is hugely popular everywhere else. And that's how I view MMA compared to boxing.