So....is war in the Middle East imminent?

[amat]

Are you serious Miles? Why would you not want Iran to have nukes? You would get the world blown up because you are thinking to much in the interest of fairness. I don't care to talk about Israel, but do you not understand that it's paramount that someone like Iran's president never gets nukes. He's literally crazy and I mean hasn't he called for Israel to be wiped out? Calling for another country's extinction should disqualify you from Nukes. AGAIN, NOT TRYING TO TALK ABOUT ISRAEL but would you be comfortable if Iran was allowed to develop nukes?

I just fucken hate how people try to paint only one side as the bad guys. The people who absolutely kill me are those who think we should not be fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. It's almost like they don't want the coalition military to take up a fight where they actually look like the good guys. These people, honestly have not got a clue. I don't either, but I can sure as hell bet you I would never ever want to spend a day under Taliban rule. They are among the most evil people on the planet, and these evil people are out there and it's NOT a bad thing to be fighting them. I don't give a fuck about politics, and the reasons why we are there and poor execution in the beginning, we're there and we couldn't possibly leave now knowing the true evils of the Taliban.

[Nameless]

Are you serious Miles? Why would you not want Iran to have nukes? You would get the world blown up because you are thinking to much in the interest of fairness. I don't care to talk about Israel, but do you not understand that it's paramount that someone like Iran's president never gets nukes. He's literally crazy and I mean hasn't he called for Israel to be wiped out? Calling for another country's extinction should disqualify you from Nukes. AGAIN, NOT TRYING TO TALK ABOUT ISRAEL but would you be comfortable if Iran was allowed to develop nukes?

I just fucken hate how people try to paint only one side as the bad guys. The people who absolutely kill me are those who think we should not be fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. It's almost like they don't want the coalition military to take up a fight where they actually look like the good guys. These people, honestly have not got a clue. I don't either, but I can sure as hell bet you I would never ever want to spend a day under Taliban rule. They are among the most evil people on the planet, and these evil people are out there and it's NOT a bad thing to be fighting them. I don't give a fuck about politics, and the reasons why we are there and poor execution in the beginning, we're there and we couldn't possibly leave now knowing the true evils of the Taliban.

I don't like the Taliban either but the funny thing is that the Taliban has been put in place with the help of the CIA and the American Gov. They did that because they thought that by helping them, the Talibans would let them to use a pipeline on their territory to suck up petrol from the Caspian sea. When helping the bad guys serving your interests is ok and then very bad when they aren't doing the Yes Men, I call that hypocrisy. If they would have been ok with the pipeline, you can bet that the US would have never landed here and wouldn't give a flying f about the peoples over there.

IF you want a very good summary of it all: Afghanistan, the CIA, bin Laden, and the Taliban

[Gandalf]

Are you serious Miles? Why would you not want Iran to have nukes? You would get the world blown up because you are thinking to much in the interest of fairness. I don't care to talk about Israel, but do you not understand that it's paramount that someone like Iran's president never gets nukes. He's literally crazy and I mean hasn't he called for Israel to be wiped out? Calling for another country's extinction should disqualify you from Nukes. AGAIN, NOT TRYING TO TALK ABOUT ISRAEL but would you be comfortable if Iran was allowed to develop nukes?

I just fucken hate how people try to paint only one side as the bad guys. The people who absolutely kill me are those who think we should not be fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. It's almost like they don't want the coalition military to take up a fight where they actually look like the good guys. These people, honestly have not got a clue. I don't either, but I can sure as hell bet you I would never ever want to spend a day under Taliban rule. They are among the most evil people on the planet, and these evil people are out there and it's NOT a bad thing to be fighting them. I don't give a fuck about politics, and the reasons why we are there and poor execution in the beginning, we're there and we couldn't possibly leave now knowing the true evils of the Taliban.

I have already said I would prefer a nuclear free region. But Israel having such a stockpile is a huge white elephant in the room. What I am saying is that to say that Iran cannot have them is hypocrisy. Which it obviously is. And all I am saying in addition is that in the age of the preemptive strike, a time when they will fabricate evidence and just make up a reason to attack, then you have to understand individual states wanting to try and prevent that. Whence North Korea supposedly bolstering itself up. Nobody wants to be the next Iraq.

You say Ahmadinejad is crazy, but I look at him as being unhinged mainly in the sense of his flamboyant use of rhetoric. He talks of the desire to see Israel go down in a ball of fire, but then again Kim Jong-il often comes out with the same stuff about attacking South Korea. It's lunatic talk, but do they ever do anything about it? Personally, I am not 100% convinced that North Korea really did torpedo that South Korean ship either, but even if they did, that is as far as they go. Terrible yes, but no more terrible than what Israel did really. Israel is actually in the process of ethnically cleansing Palestine, not too much talk about it mind, but that's what they are actually doing. I would prefer to listen to the crazies with their "seas of fire" rhetoric and no action than to actually see the silent huge concentration camp in action. Both are quite wrong and like I say both shouldn't really have this kind of weaponry.

We read the media every day and they are trying to set your mindset in a particular direction. It isn't all black and white at all, but usually our media likes to paint us as being the good guys in a just battle, but it really isn't the case. The Taliban suck, but go back through your own countries history and see the evil that has been done all too many times. Yes, we have freedom of speech and have certain freedoms, but at what cost to how many countries in the world through our brutal and unnecessary military colonialism and inability to respect the rights of other nations to be free from our sphere of influence? And Nameless covered it quite well, we even put the Taliban there in the first place and we only wanted them out again when they were no longer working in our interests. Where are these 9-11 terror suspects BTW? All forgotten about.

[Gandalf]

And before anyone tries to brand me as soft on Iran, I would like to make clear that I think their regime is horrible and the suppression of human rights and political freedoms harsh. No doubt about that, but that's a different point than the nuclear issue. If we want to go about dealing with Iran on that level then fair enough, but other nations should then also be called on the same kinds of things.

[amat]

It doesn't matter, these are awful people and who gives a fuck about the terror suspects. We could have killed Bin Laden on day 1, we would still have a reason to get rid of the fucking taliban. They are awful. I just read today they executed a 7 year old boy accusing him of being a spy. Whether we gave them support in the past or not, is anyone here actually against fighting the Taliban?

Taliban Kill, Hang 7-Year-Old Boy as Government Spy

[Nameless]

It doesn't matter, these are awful people and who gives a fuck about the terror suspects. We could have killed Bin Laden on day 1, we would still have a reason to get rid of the fucking taliban. They are awful. I just read today they executed a 7 year old boy accusing him of being a spy. Whether we gave them support in the past or not, is anyone here actually against fighting the Taliban?

Taliban Kill, Hang 7-Year-Old Boy as Government Spy

Who said they were friendly guys? Is the 7 years old murder really a surprise? Nope. We all know they things like that. However, how is it ok to loyally support them all gun ho till the Afghan war, even inviting them to Washington to promote their image and then deciding they were bad guys because they didn't obey their master? Nobody gave a fuck about peoples over there in Washington because they financed their most radical leaders and wouldn't it be for the Caspian sea petrol, they would have never landed a boot over there to "hunt Bin Laden". There are regimes as bad in Africa, notably Somalia where pirates stole more than 100 millions of material a year but they do not land in there because there ain't money to do. Same for North Korea which is much more frightening than a handful of bearded man riding 1970 motorcycles and drinking tea in some caves. The problem now is that they created a gigantic havok and can't afford to lose face, especially because of the tensions everywhere else make the region too dangerous. Talibans are disgusting peoples but you're very naive if you think that the US landed there to "save their peoples". If the Talibans would have accepted the Caspian Sea pipe, they would rule with iron hands and not even a single G.I would have land over there, at best they would condone their actions at the UN but they would not have removed them from power.

[Kev]

It doesn't matter, these are awful people and who gives a fuck about the terror suspects. We could have killed Bin Laden on day 1, we would still have a reason to get rid of the fucking taliban. They are awful. I just read today they executed a 7 year old boy accusing him of being a spy. Whether we gave them support in the past or not, is anyone here actually against fighting the Taliban?

Taliban Kill, Hang 7-Year-Old Boy as Government Spy

Who said they were friendly guys? Is the 7 years old murder really a surprise? Nope. We all know they things like that. However, how is it ok to loyally support them all gun ho till the Afghan war, even inviting them to Washington to promote their image and then deciding they were bad guys because they didn't obey their master? Nobody gave a fuck about peoples over there in Washington because they financed their most radical leaders and wouldn't it be for the Caspian sea petrol, they would have never landed a boot over there to "hunt Bin Laden". There are regimes as bad in Africa, notably Somalia where pirates stole more than 100 millions of material a year but they do not land in there because there ain't money to do. Same for North Korea which is much more frightening than a handful of bearded man riding 1970 motorcycles and drinking tea in some caves. The problem now is that they created a gigantic havok and can't afford to lose face, especially because of the tensions everywhere else make the region too dangerous. Talibans are disgusting peoples but you're very naive if you think that the US landed there to "save their peoples". If the Talibans would have accepted the Caspian Sea pipe, they would rule with iron hands and not even a single G.I would have land over there, at best they would condone their actions at the UN but they would not have removed them from power.

So you agree with me then that we must all be very naieve to believe that the furore against Israel now is all to do with concern for the plight of the Gazan people. You just explained excellently how the world cares nothing for the plight of others except when it suits their own ends, and thus in the case of Gaza, it is the new propaganda tool to exploit the Israeli's with. They are just pawns in an anti semitic attack. The Arab world would like to have another go at the six day war, but obviously with different results this time, and the first stage is to win the war of public opinion.

Excellent post Nameless, I agree with everything you said

[Nameless]

It doesn't matter, these are awful people and who gives a fuck about the terror suspects. We could have killed Bin Laden on day 1, we would still have a reason to get rid of the fucking taliban. They are awful. I just read today they executed a 7 year old boy accusing him of being a spy. Whether we gave them support in the past or not, is anyone here actually against fighting the Taliban?

Taliban Kill, Hang 7-Year-Old Boy as Government Spy

Who said they were friendly guys? Is the 7 years old murder really a surprise? Nope. We all know they things like that. However, how is it ok to loyally support them all gun ho till the Afghan war, even inviting them to Washington to promote their image and then deciding they were bad guys because they didn't obey their master? Nobody gave a fuck about peoples over there in Washington because they financed their most radical leaders and wouldn't it be for the Caspian sea petrol, they would have never landed a boot over there to "hunt Bin Laden". There are regimes as bad in Africa, notably Somalia where pirates stole more than 100 millions of material a year but they do not land in there because there ain't money to do. Same for North Korea which is much more frightening than a handful of bearded man riding 1970 motorcycles and drinking tea in some caves. The problem now is that they created a gigantic havok and can't afford to lose face, especially because of the tensions everywhere else make the region too dangerous. Talibans are disgusting peoples but you're very naive if you think that the US landed there to "save their peoples". If the Talibans would have accepted the Caspian Sea pipe, they would rule with iron hands and not even a single G.I would have land over there, at best they would condone their actions at the UN but they would not have removed them from power.

So you agree with me then that we must all be very naieve to believe that the furore against Israel now is all to do with concern for the plight of the Gazan people. You just explained excellently how the world cares nothing for the plight of others except when it suits their own ends, and thus in the case of Gaza, it is the new propaganda tool to exploit the Israeli's with. They are just pawns in an anti semitic attack. The Arab world would like to have another go at the six day war, but obviously with different results this time, and the first stage is to win the war of public opinion.

Excellent post Nameless, I agree with everything you said

Thanks for agreeing. However, I do not agree with your logic:

More than 200 motions have voted against Israel, many for war crimes at the UN but the Us systematically used their veto to block the whole deal. When 200 motions have been voted, it shows people care.

The Afghan case is absolutely different from Palestine who gets its land stolen, their water blocked and the simplest of material blocked from getting in. Afghan's borders aren't in cause in the case that interests us.

When you send 10 000 tons of medical help to a place where there is not a dime to be made (compared to billions with the pipeline) and that you challenge one very dangerous Army in Tsahal, it must be because somehow, you care about these peoples to take such risks.

Also, Comparatively to Afghanistan where the Us did put Hamid Karzai, an ex Texaco consultant (or Chevron, anyway one of these) to the head of the country to serve their interests, Israel did elect themselves their very own government which is not an ex consultant who works for the American oil interests to replace the Talibans, the butchers, the same U.S did put before to serve these same interests but had to be removed because they weren't docile.

Do not lose from sight that the US gag balled the UN because Israel, despite their incessant massacres and illegal land stealing, were serving their interests by being a threat to the "muslim" world.

2 very different situations Mr BAggins, I tell ya but thanks for agreeing with me on the Afghan case