Is America the leading terror state in the world today?

[Kev]

But seriously, you say you are well read. In that case that means you have already learned to see through the media. And that's why you should know bettter than this Afghan Iraq war bullshit, these are not democratic wars.

Like you did with the flotilla you mean?

You are the most biased person on the board Miles, if you hate someone or something nothing will ever change your mind. Look at your attitude towards Amir khan as well. You are the defintion of anti-objective when it comes to your bugbears.

well... You have the same attitude with Butte Bilbo and when you embrace something like the Israel political position, you're getting quite blind to the best arguments peoples offer you just because, even if it's true, it goes against your convictions. Perhaps then, you and MIles are just sharing a different side of the same mirror

How is my attitude to Bute the same? I've always made it very clear I dislike him fro two reasons, none of them rational. Firstly the Ring places him as their Ring champ at 168, secondly ICB rates him.

I readily admit it's not based on facts, the same reason I hate David Haye for being a big, buff attractive, confident man.

I can seperate bias from reality, unlike Miles.

Can you bollocks, Bilbo.

Go back through each and every one of my examples given and get back to me in a week. You have no idea what you are talking about Bilbo and thats quite okay. You have no academic credentials whatsover. You are really just a weird extremist with nothing to back you up.

Oh but Bilbo can warn against dangerous critical thinkers and can warn againstthose that seek more than a south coast and an ocean view.


Ahwell, if that's what a silly prick like Bilbo needs then let him be, But he really is quite
stupid.

Why are you talking to yourself like Gollum you mental case?

Rail all you want Miles, but you are fighting against God's view not mine. The Jews win, sadly for you.

[CFH]

This is a bizarre thread.

[RP33]

The way that you stated the question is pretty off, first of all. If we were the leading 'terror' state then why are my friends (these innocent people that you speak of) dying while fighting a war on foot. Why wouldn't we just nuke them? Or carpet bomb all of the innocent people? We'll kill plenty of terrorists and Al-Qaeda in the process, right? Just bomb them..

no..

There is plenty to be said with how America decides to settle politics with other countries, but leading terror? Are you kidding?

How is my question off? I am not talking about one particular war. I am talking about an accumulation of damage built up since WW2. Do your reading and then let's talk.

You aren't speaking rationally anyway. I'm not only talking of the obvious suspects which you are thinking of. Iraq and Afghanistan are the boring examples. But both are quite horrible. Iraq an illegal war built on lies. And Afghanistan which is a war built on finding the terror suspects, but then became a war about toppling the Taliban. Well, okay. Just get the story straight sometime.

Am I really kidding on leading terror though? In what way am I wrong? Name me another state that has America beat....

You're speaking of terror as killing innocent people. Believe me, I'm no super-patriot, and rarely ever defend my country in politics. If the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are partially responsible for the 9/11 disaster, then how are they innocent? What they did to us was an actor of terrorism. If we were car bombing their buildings in their towns or trying to hi-jack their hypothetical planes, then that would be consider an act of terrorism. If ANYTHING, we SUFFER from not killing innocent people because it is affecting us greatly. If we were such terrorists, as i said, why don't we just nuke all of afghanistan and kill all of the innocent people along with the wrong-doers. That's what they'd do to us if they could.

Don't get me wrong, terrorism from any side is evil and I don't condone it. But how did the Taliban cause 9-11? What evidence do you have of that?

Now how does this justify killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's? Now how does this justify the killing of even more Afghan people? That is terror and we don't even have the suspects. We went on the rampage without even an accurate target. We don't even know who we are aiming for.

Now you would justify the nuking of them instead? What, the same people that you don't have any evidence against? That makes you a nutter too. And they would do it to us if they could? Laughable really. We reap just what we sow. Where did 9-11 really come from? Possibly our own terrorists attacks which came back to haunt us. Stop being sensible miles!

Why don't you read what i typed?

I said if we were such terrorists, why wouldn't we just nuke them? How am I justifying nuking them in that question? Right, i'm not.

Anyway, I'm done talking about this if you think that if they had the capability to nuke us that they wouldn't. It's not like they hi-jacked four planes and killed 4,000 of our innocent people. Stop being sensible, RP!!

Nuke who exactly? Saudi Arabia? Those are the only links we have and nothing has happened to Saudi Arabia and it won't because you know......you are allies. You don't punish allies until they then cross you. You need to do some reading lad. You should know all this. Saudi Arabia is a horrible country but
working with wallstreet they provide horribly overpriced oil and you rely on them.

Why is this such a hard concept for you to grasp? I'm talking about Afgahanistan and anywhere else where any terrorists or any affiliates of the terrorists that have attacked us are. If we're such terrorists, why don't we nuke them? Why bother losing men in our army?

I read plenty, thanks.

Again, this all goes to your definition of terror. you're a brit, right?

What about 100 years of British rule in India?
What about British occupation in Northern Ireland?
What about the British bombing French ships in North Africa in 1940?
What about when the British invaded Malaysia in 1960 when commies were trying to take over? Pretty similar to the US's involvement in Vietnam.

I digress.

What profoundly weak arguments....you have no evidence that the Afghans ever attacked you.

Do you think because I am English that I am going to defend British interests? Integrity doesn't work that way. I believe in integrity and nationalism seldom has that. I discard nationalism. I believe in truth and honesty and that's where I confuse the propagandists.

I'd like to continue discussing this, but lunch is nearly over..

All i will say, again, is that 'terror' is clearly open for interpretation. For example, if you think Libya was innocent, strange considering the reason we bombed them was because of THEIR terrorist attacks resulting in US deaths, then clearly you're speaking of something different than my definition of terror.

Look noone wants to hear that their 'Dad' is a dick and their government quite evil, but it's simply the truth about America. You have a media glossing over things, you have a weak academic core keeping it pretty, but seriously man, step outside the box and do some reading and it becomes quite interesting. Rather than be threatened by what I say, you should listen to it and do your own reading and then decide for yourself.

If you disagree after reading and thinking then fair enough, but don't get upset when you aren't even sure what you even know. That's just silly.

Who's threatened by what you say? As i said, i'm no super-patriot, say what you will about the US. I do plenty of reading, as i said.. I'd consider myself quite educated with my experience and accomplishments so far, and at 24, i make close to double what anyone less than or equal to 30 years of age in the country makes, so insecurity is not present. I'm not threatened by your vast, incomparable knowledge of the world, sir miles, i assure you. No one's upset. Don't be silly. Why make a thread, with a QUESTION, at that, if you're going to argue with those that oppose your view? Wrong forum for such.

Nobody is threatened by what I say and I don't want them to be either. I think a lot of people are used to it and I think a lot of others will ignore it and so they should. I asked the question because I think it is an important one, but also a very interesting one. I knew plenty would disagree and it's not like I can make the world agree with me anyway. This forum is where I feel most at home so I will start the threads that interest me, so that's a strange argument. If you can't handle the argument then fair enough, but life goes on and miles is sticking around and will always ask the questions others run away from.

Miles you're going in circles.. you say to me "rather than being threatened by what i say......".. to which i replied 'who is threatened by what you say' meaning, why would you think i am threatened.. and then you reply 'nobody is threatened by what i say'.. well then why are you implying that i am?!?

and no, i'm not sounding 'young'. i may be younger than you, but am plenty educated, don't try to insult me cause you're older. And what argument CAN'T i handle?!?! Start whatever threads you want, stick around for however you want, i never suggested you don't do either of those, so i'm not exactly sure what you're babbling about. Nor am i running away from any questions.

Accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you. It will help you in life. But, you're older than me, so you already know this, of course.

[amat]

yawn...

Miles we're all worried that you're actually going crazy. You are posting in the same habits as Lyle now except people still are getting drawn into what you say.

[El Kabong]

yawn...

Miles we're all worried that you're actually going crazy. You are posting in the same habits as Lyle now except people still are getting drawn into what you say.

....well thank you amat, I appreciate your opinion (please note the sarcasm) but never have I disrespected the whole of England in such a manner.

This thread is ridiculous and if you think really hard, the US have been VERY gracious given their position of power we could have owned the world post WWII but we gave it back. We could have nuked the USSR on numerous occasions but we didn't, we have been extremely cautious in fighting vs Iraq and the Afghans....we could have just demolished their countries but we didn't.

Compare us to Rome and Greece and England and see what gracious leaders we are....we could EASILY crush any group of people rising up against us but we show restraint and we actively try not to kill civilians.

[Kev]

Just to annoy Miles further another video has surfaced regarding the Gaza flotilla. This one shows the IHH leader Bulent Yildirim, this wonderful 'humanitarian aid charity' giving a lecture of resistance to his muslim brothers commanding them to throw the Isreali's overboard if/when they board the ships.

Once again, look at these guys with their chants of 'Allar Akbar!' and tell me seriously these are not terrorists.

Miles is like Darth Vadar and has let hate overcome him



Here's another 'humanitarian aid worker' chatting about how he's relishing the upcoming battle and looking forward to martying himself for the Muslim cause.




Even the captain of the Mavi Marmara admits it was an attack!




Once again here the chief officer of the ship testifies that the IHH took over the ship and prepared to launch an unprovoked attack on the Isreali's whent they arrived.





The IHH are a PROVEN terrorist group. Miles refuses to accept this PROVEN fact.

Once again here are the findings of the Danish Institute investigating IHH in 2006

http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publicat...2006-7.web.pdf



This is what is says about the IHH

Yet, the phenomenon of charitable front groups that provide support to Al-Qaida is by no
means exclusively limited to the Arabian Peninsula. Indeed, elsewhere in the Muslim world, other such entities have been established with near equal success – as in Turkey, with the socalled Foundation for Human Rights, Liberties, and Humanitarian Relief (IHH). Turkishauthorities began their own domestic criminal investigation of IHH as early as December 1997, when sources revealed that leaders of IHH were purchasing automatic weapons fromother regional Islamic militant groups.43 IHH’s bureau in Istanbul was thoroughly searched, and its local officers were arrested. Security forces uncovered an array of disturbing items, including firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions, and a “jihad flag.” After analyzing seized IHH documents, Turkish authorities concluded that “detained members of IHH were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya.”


According to a French intelligence report, the terrorist infiltration of IHH extended to its
most senior ranks. The report, written by famed counterterrorism magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere, revealed that IHH President Bulent Yildrim had directly conspired in the mid-1990s to “recruit veteran soldiers in anticipation of the coming holy war [jihad]. In particular, some men were sent into war zones in Muslim countries in order to acquire combat experience.”
Furthermore, in the hopes of “obtaining political support from these countries, financial aid was transferred [on behalf of IHH], as well as caches of firearms, knives, and pre-fabricated explosives.” An examination of IHH’s phone records in Istanbul showed repeated telephone calls in 1996 to an Al-Qaida guesthouse in Milan and various Algerian terrorist operatives active elsewhere in Europe – including the notorious Abu el-Ma`ali, who has been subsequently termed by U.S. officials as a “junior Osama Bin Laden.”

During the later Seattle trial of would-be Al-Qaida Millenium bomber Ahmed Ressam, federal prosecutors called French magistrate Bruguiere to the stand as an expert witness. Bruguiere testified that IHH had played “[a]n important role” in the Al-Qaida Millenium bomb plot targeting LAX. Under repeated questioning, Bruguiere insisted that “[t]here’s a rather close relation”:

The IHH is an NGO, but it was kind of a type of cover-up… in order to obtain
forged documents and also to obtain different forms of infiltration for Mujahideen
in combat. And also to go and gather[recruit] these Mujahideens. And
finally, one of the last responsibilities that they had was also to be implicated or
involved in weapons trafficking.

Years later, Bulent Yildrim and the IHH also played a key role in galvanizing anti-Western
sentiment among Turkish Muslims in the lead-up to the 2003 war in Iraq. By late 2002, the IHH was instrumental in convening large and raucous protest rallies opposed to the thenimminent effort to depose Saddam Hussein, capped off by the burning of U.S. and Israeli flags. Even after the initial U.S. invasion of Iraq, IHH has continued to bitterly oppose the presence of Western troops in Mesopotamia. Leading another anti-U.S. rally in Istanbul in December 2004, Bulent Yildrim told the Anatolia News Agency, “Intelligence cooperation between the United States, Britain and Turkey must be stopped. Otherwise we will organize actions at every consulate, and if necessary will assembly 50,000 or 100,000 people at the US consulate.”50 Protestors at the December rally reportedly shouted various slogans, including “Murderer US, get out of the Middle East” and “Long live our resistance.”

Yet, despite all this, the IHH is now active – and outspoken – in providing “charitable donations” to rebel-dominated areas of restive Sunni central Iraq. As he watched IHH truck convoys leaving Turkey for Iraq, Bulent Yildrim characterized U.S. military operations in the Iraqi city of Fallujah as equally “a strike on Istanbul, Ankara.”52 In mid-2004, IHH issued an English- language news update from its representatives on the ground in Fallujah: “the women and children shot by [U.S.] snipers now rest in a football field turned into a graveyard for the brave freedom fighters who resisted the invasion… The American troops [turned back] the injured being transported to hospitals by shooting at the ambulances. The freedom fighters crashed one airplane and 18 helicopters… Iraqi authorities stated that the resistance of [Fallujah] created a high spirit among their people while causing chaos and confusion among the Americans… As for the search for a new flag by the transition government, the Iraqis are sending a clear and firm message by raising their old flag in every possible place such as the roofs and walls of their houses, cars and gas stations… All the Iraqis share one hope which is
the departure of the invading Americans. The big bubble of anger that covers all parts of the country can explode any time.”53 IHH has continued in its “efforts” in Iraq, at least as recently as the spring of 2005, when Bulent Yildrim announced the departure of two more truckloads “of humanitarian aid to Fallujah city of Iraq. In the coming days, we will send more aid.”54 Yildrim failed to specify who exactly in the city of Fallujah would be the recipients of IHH’s contributions.

IHH has also helped fill the void created by the departure of other, more brazen charitable front groups, such as the now-banned Benevolence International Foundation. Only one month before BIF was designated by the U.S. government as a terrorist entity, Halil Demir – a former BIF public relations officer who had traveled in the Caucasus on official business for the charity – established a new non-profit group (also based in Worth, Illinois) known as The Zakat Foundation of America (TZFA). According to its official newsletter, by mid-2003, Demir’s Zakat Foundation had sponsored at least two truck convoys traveling from Turkey to Mosul, Kirkuk, and Baghdad carrying at least $120,000 in materiel “done in coordination with IHH, a humanitarian organization based in Turkey… Portions of the supplies from [the] second relief convoy were donated locally by individuals and businesses in Turkey.” A photo comparison of images posted on the TZFA’s website demonstrate a consistent pattern of material support to IHH – both in Iraq and Afghanistan. In one case, supposed relief workers wearing smocks marked with IHH’s logo struggle to hold up a TZFA banner for a photo while goods are distributed to Afghan refugees. In another instance of clear deception, photos published in TZFA’s newsletter of truck convoys carrying relief supplies from Turkey to Sunni central Iraq were digitally tampered to remove the original IHH banner hung from the vehicles, substituting it instead with a crude replacement reading “The Zakat Foundation.”
Organizations such as IHH are quick to respond to natural disasters and other human catastrophes. Unfortunately, these groups often seek to use these situations to gain leverage with destitute Muslim refugees. In August 1999, when a devastating earthquake struck Turkey, IHH reached the affected zones, in some cases, even before the Turkish government. Friction quickly grew between authorities tasked with relief and independent Islamist “humanitarian” groups. Ultimately, Turkey was forced to ban the IHH from participating in earthquake aid efforts because it was counted among several “fundamentalist organizations” operating “secret bank accounts” that were refusing to allow local authorities to oversee the distribution of their aid resources.

[Nameless]

Godlessness opposes God's people, but the Godless will lose.

That is all.

That's one of the funniest thing I've read coming from somebody who preaches the bible but follows none of its important commitments

ha yeah well I have no answer to that. I'll probably end up in hell right alongside you and Miles, but I'll have at least the satisfaction of being able to say 'See I fucking told you!'

Don't worry for me, last second redemption saves it all, if ever I was wrong, believe me, I'll be sorry for real and then have my second class ticket upstairs, just do the same so we can play chess from a white cloud watching nice girls walking down earth

[Kev]

Godlessness opposes God's people, but the Godless will lose.

That is all.

That's one of the funniest thing I've read coming from somebody who preaches the bible but follows none of its important commitments

ha yeah well I have no answer to that. I'll probably end up in hell right alongside you and Miles, but I'll have at least the satisfaction of being able to say 'See I fucking told you!'

Don't worry for me, last second redemption saves it all, if ever I was wrong, believe me, I'll be sorry for real and then have my second class ticket upstairs, just do the same so we can play chess from a white cloud watching nice girls walking down earth

I reckon we will be ok Nameless, I may be a useless cunt but Jesus is the star and seeing as I've called on His name He has assured me that I'm saved.

I shall intercede for Miles too. I hope he relents and makes it through the pearly gates. I'm sure he'll find much to moan about up there, God's white light is too bright, everlasting life is a bit tedious, he'll probably start a petition to have Chomsky brought up from hell, but overall he's a good egg. I imagine God will give him a special sound proof room where he can go in and travail over the wrongdoings of paradise when he needs but I'm sure he'll have the odd moment of joy up there, like when he finds out Amir Khan didn't make it for example.

[Gandalf]

I find it funny that anyone can in any way become offended by any of what I have been saying. Seriously, just do your reading and look through the history and you find quite brazenly that America is one seriously twisted country and governed by the most horrible of people. I am not looking to court controversy, but aim simply to suggest something that others don't want to face up to.

Fair enough, Lyle has freedom of speech back home, but how many have the US killed in order to ensure that their own business interests have thrived overseas? Of course, there is no longer any business in the US itself. Most Americans are waiters or else unemployed, now they are commiting terrorism against their own people. Yeah, I'm twisting words there, but it's kind of true actually.

[Kev]

I find it funny that anyone can in any way become offended by any of what I have been saying. Seriously, just do your reading and look through the history and you find quite brazenly that America is one seriously twisted country and governed by the most horrible of people. I am not looking to court controversy, but aim simply to suggest something that others don't want to face up to.

Fair enough, Lyle has freedom of speech back home, but how many have the US killed in order to ensure that their own business interests have thrived overseas? Of course, there is no longer any business in the US itself. Most Americans are waiters or else unemployed, now they are commiting terrorism against their own people. Yeah, I'm twisting words there, but it's kind of true actually.

If it will stop you killing somebody Miles I will agree with you mate. The Gulf of Tonkin incident, the interception of Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbour followed by ignoring the warnings as they wanted to retaliate show that the US is not above deception and evildoings to ensure it reaches its goals.

This is true of ALL nations however, I don't think USA can be singled out as being worse than any other, it just happens they are currently more powerful than any other.

[Gandalf]

And what does the flotilla have to do with America being the leading terror state in the world today? That's small fry compared to this. Keep that stuff to the relevant threads.

[Gandalf]

I find it funny that anyone can in any way become offended by any of what I have been saying. Seriously, just do your reading and look through the history and you find quite brazenly that America is one seriously twisted country and governed by the most horrible of people. I am not looking to court controversy, but aim simply to suggest something that others don't want to face up to.

Fair enough, Lyle has freedom of speech back home, but how many have the US killed in order to ensure that their own business interests have thrived overseas? Of course, there is no longer any business in the US itself. Most Americans are waiters or else unemployed, now they are commiting terrorism against their own people. Yeah, I'm twisting words there, but it's kind of true actually.

If it will stop you killing somebody Miles I will agree with you mate. The Gulf of Tonkin incident, the interception of Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbour followed by ignoring the warnings as they wanted to retaliate show that the US is not above deception and evildoings to ensure it reaches its goals.

This is true of ALL nations however, I don't think USA can be singled out as being worse than any other, it just happens they are currently more powerful than any other.

They are clearly far worse, you just need to look in more detail at the particular cases I have given to see how selfishly and brutally the US acts. Seldom has US foreign intervention been for the good of any particular group of people.

Of course what I am saying is going to upset good old American citizens, but it's the cold harsh truth. I can deal with a little bit of red rep off Lyle.

[Gandalf]

I'm quite calm actually, so I don't know why I should be wanting to kill any people. I guess people don't like to think that a rational, calm person is saying and thinking these things, but I am. I am quite calm and I mean every word. There is no harm in looking at our own nations and pointing out the hypocrisy and double standards. To ignore that and pretend it's all about helping others and doing good things is just stupid. It's about the elite getting their own way in most of the cases. Seldom is anything done for noble, true reasons.

America has killed far more people around the world than every terror group combined. And you can probably multiply that figure by 1000.

[Kev]

I find it funny that anyone can in any way become offended by any of what I have been saying. Seriously, just do your reading and look through the history and you find quite brazenly that America is one seriously twisted country and governed by the most horrible of people. I am not looking to court controversy, but aim simply to suggest something that others don't want to face up to.

Fair enough, Lyle has freedom of speech back home, but how many have the US killed in order to ensure that their own business interests have thrived overseas? Of course, there is no longer any business in the US itself. Most Americans are waiters or else unemployed, now they are commiting terrorism against their own people. Yeah, I'm twisting words there, but it's kind of true actually.

If it will stop you killing somebody Miles I will agree with you mate. The Gulf of Tonkin incident, the interception of Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbour followed by ignoring the warnings as they wanted to retaliate show that the US is not above deception and evildoings to ensure it reaches its goals.

This is true of ALL nations however, I don't think USA can be singled out as being worse than any other, it just happens they are currently more powerful than any other.

They are clearly far worse, you just need to look in more detail at the particular cases I have given to see how selfishly and brutally the US acts. Seldom has US foreign intervention been for the good of any particular group of people.

Of course what I am saying is going to upset good old American citizens, but it's the cold harsh truth. I can deal with a little bit of red rep off Lyle.

Well it's nice you are moving away from Israel and on to somebody else now.

I don't really care either way as far as America is concerned, God's word is silent regarding them specifically so you can hate unabated as far as I'm concerned.

It wasn no 'love boat' however, that is my final say.

[Gandalf]

I find it funny that anyone can in any way become offended by any of what I have been saying. Seriously, just do your reading and look through the history and you find quite brazenly that America is one seriously twisted country and governed by the most horrible of people. I am not looking to court controversy, but aim simply to suggest something that others don't want to face up to.

Fair enough, Lyle has freedom of speech back home, but how many have the US killed in order to ensure that their own business interests have thrived overseas? Of course, there is no longer any business in the US itself. Most Americans are waiters or else unemployed, now they are commiting terrorism against their own people. Yeah, I'm twisting words there, but it's kind of true actually.

If it will stop you killing somebody Miles I will agree with you mate. The Gulf of Tonkin incident, the interception of Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbour followed by ignoring the warnings as they wanted to retaliate show that the US is not above deception and evildoings to ensure it reaches its goals.

This is true of ALL nations however, I don't think USA can be singled out as being worse than any other, it just happens they are currently more powerful than any other.

They are clearly far worse, you just need to look in more detail at the particular cases I have given to see how selfishly and brutally the US acts. Seldom has US foreign intervention been for the good of any particular group of people.

Of course what I am saying is going to upset good old American citizens, but it's the cold harsh truth. I can deal with a little bit of red rep off Lyle.

Well it's nice you are moving away from Israel and on to somebody else now.

I don't really care either way as far as America is concerned, God's word is silent regarding them specifically so you can hate unabated as far as I'm concerned.

It wasn no 'love boat' however, that is my final say.

America is the main problem with the world. Israel is really nothing in comparison. I guess Israel will be hoping the decay of America will be a slow and long drawn out process, which I think it will. But in the meantime, it needs to foster better relations and learn to be a credible state, because without American backing, Israel no longer exists.

I'm going to start reading The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. I wonder what threads this one will inspire. But seriously, get off your arses you lazy fucks and read some books! Stop spooning the media down your throats and start to think outside the box. You all sound like bloody sheep. You are better than that.