Naz-vs-Marquez? The greatest duck in history? Fact.

[Fenster]

I've just realized something. I was looking at the old Ring Magazine ratings when Hamed was fighting, meaning '90s era. Hamed never once beat a top 10 p4p fighter of his era.
And I'm talking about beating someone who was currently ranked, I'm not talking about someone that fell off the rankings. I could be wrong on this, if so point out to me who he beat that was top 10 p4p at that time.

Hamed was a very good and very exciting fighter, but in my opinion was never elite.

I believe Naz himself was the only P4P featherweight in the late 90s.

You can only meet P4P fighters if they are of similar size/weight to you. I think you will find plenty of fighters become "elite" without beating a fellow P4P incumbent - Hopkins, Lopez etc...

[generalbulldog]

I've just realized something. I was looking at the old Ring Magazine ratings when Hamed was fighting, meaning '90s era. Hamed never once beat a top 10 p4p fighter of his era.
And I'm talking about beating someone who was currently ranked, I'm not talking about someone that fell off the rankings. I could be wrong on this, if so point out to me who he beat that was top 10 p4p at that time.

Hamed was a very good and very exciting fighter, but in my opinion was never elite.

I believe Naz himself was the only P4P featherweight in the late 90s.

You can only meet P4P fighters if they are of similar size/weight to you. I think you will find plenty of fighters become "elite" without beating a fellow P4P incumbent - Hopkins, Lopez etc...

Good point on that, but when Nas dd meet someone who was p4p that was his own size, the outcome was a massive beat down by a guy jumping up in weight.

I've been pretty much tryng to stay out of his debate between you and VD, but I have to agree with him, that Nas never beat any one that was elite and when he did meet someone that was elite it was 1 sided.

I don't see him beating either JMM or Morales at 126.

[Fenster]

I've just realized something. I was looking at the old Ring Magazine ratings when Hamed was fighting, meaning '90s era. Hamed never once beat a top 10 p4p fighter of his era.
And I'm talking about beating someone who was currently ranked, I'm not talking about someone that fell off the rankings. I could be wrong on this, if so point out to me who he beat that was top 10 p4p at that time.

Hamed was a very good and very exciting fighter, but in my opinion was never elite.

I believe Naz himself was the only P4P featherweight in the late 90s.

You can only meet P4P fighters if they are of similar size/weight to you. I think you will find plenty of fighters become "elite" without beating a fellow P4P incumbent - Hopkins, Lopez etc...

Good point on that, but when Nas dd meet someone who was p4p that was his own size, the outcome was a massive beat down by a guy jumping up in weight.

I've been pretty much tryng to stay out of his debate between you and VD, but I have to agree with him, that Nas never beat any one that was elite and when he did meet someone that was elite it was 1 sided.

I don't see him beating either JMM or Morales at 126.

I've never once said Naz beat an elite fighter - as in a P4P star or an all-time great. I've simply stated he beat the "elite featherweights" (top rated, most decorated) of his time. I've never once called Naz a "great" during this thread.

Greats like Morales never went to featherweight until the end of Naz's era. And Naz basically had to chose between Barrera and Morales at that time. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered by then

[Spicoli]

Awesome stuff really. I thought I was wordy ha. Might need to do this from home but I have to know Fenster. Are you with a straight face and sober mind calling Manuel medina and Cesar Soto elite fighters

[Fenster]

Awesome stuff really. I thought I was wordy ha. Might need to do this from home but I have to know Fenster. Are you with a straight face and sober mind calling Manuel medina and Cesar Soto elite fighters

You guys seem to be ignoring the word FEATHERWEIGHT.

There is a difference between being regarded as elite in the entire world of boxing and elite in your respective division.

If a fighter occupies an overall top ten ranking and/or wins a "world" title in a particular division, that would class him among the elite (best) of that weight-class. No?

Come on guys...

[Violent Demise]

Hamed became the lineal Featherweight champion when he beat Wilfredo Vazquez. Cuz that's how the lineal tree goes. So there was never no need to fight Cesar Soto. Unless it was to duck Marquez. He didn't care about his belt or unifying. If he did he would of never gave up the IBF title. And would of made sure Vazquez some how would of kept his WBA title. Or at least gone after who ever had the WBA title at the time. That's what unifying means. Collecting all belts. It wasn't to be considered the man at featherweight. Cuz he got that distinction when he beat Vazquez. Learn the difference. Fighting Soto was for one reason. And one reason only. To avoid fighting Marquez. Facts don't lie. Hamed ducked Marquez. Ducking was his nature. I'll prove it. Name me an elite fighter Hamed beat that was in his prime. Just one. And I said elite. So save your Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough. Neither was ever elite.

I've just realized something. I was looking at the old Ring Magazine ratings when Hamed was fighting, meaning '90s era. Hamed never once beat a top 10 p4p fighter of his era.
And I'm talking about beating someone who was currently ranked, I'm not talking about someone that fell off the rankings. I could be wrong on this, if so point out to me who he beat that was top 10 p4p at that time.

Hamed was a very good and very exciting fighter, but in my opinion was never elite.

I believe Naz himself was the only P4P featherweight in the late 90s.

You can only meet P4P fighters if they are of similar size/weight to you. I think you will find plenty of fighters become "elite" without beating a fellow P4P incumbent - Hopkins, Lopez etc...

Good point on that, but when Nas dd meet someone who was p4p that was his own size, the outcome was a massive beat down by a guy jumping up in weight.

I've been pretty much tryng to stay out of his debate between you and VD, but I have to agree with him, that Nas never beat any one that was elite and when he did meet someone that was elite it was 1 sided.

I don't see him beating either JMM or Morales at 126.

I've never once said Naz beat an elite fighter - as in a P4P star or an all-time great. I've simply stated he beat the "elite featherweights" (top rated, most decorated) of his time. I've never once called Naz a "great" during this thread.

Greats like Morales never went to featherweight until the end of Naz's era. And Naz basically had to chose between Barrera and Morales at that time. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered by then

Of course you didn't. I'm a give you a little credit. It was a good try. And I can see your little trick working against others. But I saw right through it. I let it play out a little before I wrecked it.

It's like this. Naseem never beat an elite fighter who was in his prime. Thats an indisputable fact. Not even his most loyal can offer an argument without looking like fools. It's why you kept using the word Featherweight. Like I said security blanket. You threw out names under that banner to try and make your point. But eventually you knew it was only a matter of time before I grew bored of you and just put you out your misery. You prepared for it. After making it clear to everybody not brain dead that Robinson, Ingle and Medina were not elite fighters and it's true in fact what Violent D says, you don't get hit to hard. All you had to say is what you just said.

"I uh, uh never said Hamed beat an elite fighter. I said he beat an elite Featherweight. Featherweight. Only talking about that weight"

I'm a cut you some slack and not ask you to explain the shameful ducking of the original question that was asked of you. Ask you can see it's quite clear not the one you were answering.

[milmascaras1]

i know hamed was a great, great showman but i also think he was one of the biggest hype jobs in boxing! sure he could punch but what happened when he went against an in his prime barrera? he got exposed as a one dimensional fighter with really little boxing skills. the fact that he was so awkward was a big advantage against many of his opponents who found it hard to adjust to his style. but fighters like barrera did expose him and marquez would have done the same. there is no comparison between marquez' skills and hamed's lack of skills. marquez wound win this one going away by UD or late TKO.

[Violent Demise]

i know hamed was a great, great showman but i also think he was one of the biggest hype jobs in boxing! sure he could punch but what happened when he went against an in his prime barrera? he got exposed as a one dimensional fighter with really little boxing skills. the fact that he was so awkward was a big advantage against many of his opponents who found it hard to adjust to his style. but fighters like barrera did expose him and marquez would have done the same. there is no comparison between marquez' skills and hamed's lack of skills. marquez wound win this one going away by UD or late TKO.

That wasn't even a prime Barrera that clowned him. A prime Marco would of stopped him

[Fenster]

i know hamed was a great, great showman but i also think he was one of the biggest hype jobs in boxing! sure he could punch but what happened when he went against an in his prime barrera? he got exposed as a one dimensional fighter with really little boxing skills. the fact that he was so awkward was a big advantage against many of his opponents who found it hard to adjust to his style. but fighters like barrera did expose him and marquez would have done the same. there is no comparison between marquez' skills and hamed's lack of skills. marquez wound win this one going away by UD or late TKO.

That wasn't even a prime Barrera that clowned him. A prime Marco would of stopped him

Manny Steward says Naz would have knocked out Barrera inside three rounds if he had trained properly.

Manny Steward also says Morales would have been an easy fight for Naz. He says Morales upright style, poor footwork and the fact he will try and trade made him made for Naz.

[Fenster]

Hamed became the lineal Featherweight champion when he beat Wilfredo Vazquez. Cuz that's how the lineal tree goes. So there was never no need to fight Cesar Soto. Unless it was to duck Marquez. He didn't care about his belt or unifying. If he did he would of never gave up the IBF title. And would of made sure Vazquez some how would of kept his WBA title. Or at least gone after who ever had the WBA title at the time. That's what unifying means. Collecting all belts. It wasn't to be considered the man at featherweight. Cuz he got that distinction when he beat Vazquez. Learn the difference. Fighting Soto was for one reason. And one reason only. To avoid fighting Marquez. Facts don't lie. Hamed ducked Marquez. Ducking was his nature. I'll prove it. Name me an elite fighter Hamed beat that was in his prime. Just one. And I said elite. So save your Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough. Neither was ever elite.

I've just realized something. I was looking at the old Ring Magazine ratings when Hamed was fighting, meaning '90s era. Hamed never once beat a top 10 p4p fighter of his era.
And I'm talking about beating someone who was currently ranked, I'm not talking about someone that fell off the rankings. I could be wrong on this, if so point out to me who he beat that was top 10 p4p at that time.

Hamed was a very good and very exciting fighter, but in my opinion was never elite.

I believe Naz himself was the only P4P featherweight in the late 90s.

You can only meet P4P fighters if they are of similar size/weight to you. I think you will find plenty of fighters become "elite" without beating a fellow P4P incumbent - Hopkins, Lopez etc...

Good point on that, but when Nas dd meet someone who was p4p that was his own size, the outcome was a massive beat down by a guy jumping up in weight.

I've been pretty much tryng to stay out of his debate between you and VD, but I have to agree with him, that Nas never beat any one that was elite and when he did meet someone that was elite it was 1 sided.

I don't see him beating either JMM or Morales at 126.

I've never once said Naz beat an elite fighter - as in a P4P star or an all-time great. I've simply stated he beat the "elite featherweights" (top rated, most decorated) of his time. I've never once called Naz a "great" during this thread.

Greats like Morales never went to featherweight until the end of Naz's era. And Naz basically had to chose between Barrera and Morales at that time. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered by then

Of course you didn't. I'm a give you a little credit. It was a good try. And I can see your little trick working against others. But I saw right through it. I let it play out a little before I wrecked it.

It's like this. Naseem never beat an elite fighter who was in his prime. Thats an indisputable fact. Not even his most loyal can offer an argument without looking like fools. It's why you kept using the word Featherweight. Like I said security blanket. You threw out names under that banner to try and make your point. But eventually you knew it was only a matter of time before I grew bored of you and just put you out your misery. You prepared for it. After making it clear to everybody not brain dead that Robinson, Ingle and Medina were not elite fighters and it's true in fact what Violent D says, you don't get hit to hard. All you had to say is what you just said.

"I uh, uh never said Hamed beat an elite fighter. I said he beat an elite Featherweight. Featherweight. Only talking about that weight"

I'm a cut you some slack and not ask you to explain the shameful ducking of the original question that was asked of you. Ask you can see it's quite clear not the one you were answering.

You haven't wrecked a thing. Anyone with half a brain cell can see I bounce you all over the shop.

The fact is - Naz beat all the elite/best featherweights of his day and ducked nobody.

The end.

[Violent Demise]

Hamed became the lineal Featherweight champion when he beat Wilfredo Vazquez. Cuz that's how the lineal tree goes. So there was never no need to fight Cesar Soto. Unless it was to duck Marquez. He didn't care about his belt or unifying. If he did he would of never gave up the IBF title. And would of made sure Vazquez some how would of kept his WBA title. Or at least gone after who ever had the WBA title at the time. That's what unifying means. Collecting all belts. It wasn't to be considered the man at featherweight. Cuz he got that distinction when he beat Vazquez. Learn the difference. Fighting Soto was for one reason. And one reason only. To avoid fighting Marquez. Facts don't lie. Hamed ducked Marquez. Ducking was his nature. I'll prove it. Name me an elite fighter Hamed beat that was in his prime. Just one. And I said elite. So save your Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough. Neither was ever elite.

I've just realized something. I was looking at the old Ring Magazine ratings when Hamed was fighting, meaning '90s era. Hamed never once beat a top 10 p4p fighter of his era.
And I'm talking about beating someone who was currently ranked, I'm not talking about someone that fell off the rankings. I could be wrong on this, if so point out to me who he beat that was top 10 p4p at that time.

Hamed was a very good and very exciting fighter, but in my opinion was never elite.

I believe Naz himself was the only P4P featherweight in the late 90s.

You can only meet P4P fighters if they are of similar size/weight to you. I think you will find plenty of fighters become "elite" without beating a fellow P4P incumbent - Hopkins, Lopez etc...

Good point on that, but when Nas dd meet someone who was p4p that was his own size, the outcome was a massive beat down by a guy jumping up in weight.

I've been pretty much tryng to stay out of his debate between you and VD, but I have to agree with him, that Nas never beat any one that was elite and when he did meet someone that was elite it was 1 sided.

I don't see him beating either JMM or Morales at 126.

I've never once said Naz beat an elite fighter - as in a P4P star or an all-time great. I've simply stated he beat the "elite featherweights" (top rated, most decorated) of his time. I've never once called Naz a "great" during this thread.

Greats like Morales never went to featherweight until the end of Naz's era. And Naz basically had to chose between Barrera and Morales at that time. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered by then

Of course you didn't. I'm a give you a little credit. It was a good try. And I can see your little trick working against others. But I saw right through it. I let it play out a little before I wrecked it.

It's like this. Naseem never beat an elite fighter who was in his prime. Thats an indisputable fact. Not even his most loyal can offer an argument without looking like fools. It's why you kept using the word Featherweight. Like I said security blanket. You threw out names under that banner to try and make your point. But eventually you knew it was only a matter of time before I grew bored of you and just put you out your misery. You prepared for it. After making it clear to everybody not brain dead that Robinson, Ingle and Medina were not elite fighters and it's true in fact what Violent D says, you don't get hit to hard. All you had to say is what you just said.

"I uh, uh never said Hamed beat an elite fighter. I said he beat an elite Featherweight. Featherweight. Only talking about that weight"

I'm a cut you some slack and not ask you to explain the shameful ducking of the original question that was asked of you. Ask you can see it's quite clear not the one you were answering.

You haven't wrecked a thing. Anyone with half a brain cell can see I bounce you all over the shop.

The fact is - Naz beat all the elite/best featherweights of his day and ducked nobody.

The end.

To bad the good ones were all past there prime. And the ones that were, weren't that good. Fact.

Another fact is Hamed never beat an elite fighter in his prime.

[Fenster]

Hamed became the lineal Featherweight champion when he beat Wilfredo Vazquez. Cuz that's how the lineal tree goes. So there was never no need to fight Cesar Soto. Unless it was to duck Marquez. He didn't care about his belt or unifying. If he did he would of never gave up the IBF title. And would of made sure Vazquez some how would of kept his WBA title. Or at least gone after who ever had the WBA title at the time. That's what unifying means. Collecting all belts. It wasn't to be considered the man at featherweight. Cuz he got that distinction when he beat Vazquez. Learn the difference. Fighting Soto was for one reason. And one reason only. To avoid fighting Marquez. Facts don't lie. Hamed ducked Marquez. Ducking was his nature. I'll prove it. Name me an elite fighter Hamed beat that was in his prime. Just one. And I said elite. So save your Paul Ingle and Wayne McCullough. Neither was ever elite.

I've just realized something. I was looking at the old Ring Magazine ratings when Hamed was fighting, meaning '90s era. Hamed never once beat a top 10 p4p fighter of his era.
And I'm talking about beating someone who was currently ranked, I'm not talking about someone that fell off the rankings. I could be wrong on this, if so point out to me who he beat that was top 10 p4p at that time.

Hamed was a very good and very exciting fighter, but in my opinion was never elite.

I believe Naz himself was the only P4P featherweight in the late 90s.

You can only meet P4P fighters if they are of similar size/weight to you. I think you will find plenty of fighters become "elite" without beating a fellow P4P incumbent - Hopkins, Lopez etc...

Good point on that, but when Nas dd meet someone who was p4p that was his own size, the outcome was a massive beat down by a guy jumping up in weight.

I've been pretty much tryng to stay out of his debate between you and VD, but I have to agree with him, that Nas never beat any one that was elite and when he did meet someone that was elite it was 1 sided.

I don't see him beating either JMM or Morales at 126.

I've never once said Naz beat an elite fighter - as in a P4P star or an all-time great. I've simply stated he beat the "elite featherweights" (top rated, most decorated) of his time. I've never once called Naz a "great" during this thread.

Greats like Morales never went to featherweight until the end of Naz's era. And Naz basically had to chose between Barrera and Morales at that time. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered by then

Of course you didn't. I'm a give you a little credit. It was a good try. And I can see your little trick working against others. But I saw right through it. I let it play out a little before I wrecked it.

It's like this. Naseem never beat an elite fighter who was in his prime. Thats an indisputable fact. Not even his most loyal can offer an argument without looking like fools. It's why you kept using the word Featherweight. Like I said security blanket. You threw out names under that banner to try and make your point. But eventually you knew it was only a matter of time before I grew bored of you and just put you out your misery. You prepared for it. After making it clear to everybody not brain dead that Robinson, Ingle and Medina were not elite fighters and it's true in fact what Violent D says, you don't get hit to hard. All you had to say is what you just said.

"I uh, uh never said Hamed beat an elite fighter. I said he beat an elite Featherweight. Featherweight. Only talking about that weight"

I'm a cut you some slack and not ask you to explain the shameful ducking of the original question that was asked of you. Ask you can see it's quite clear not the one you were answering.

You haven't wrecked a thing. Anyone with half a brain cell can see I bounce you all over the shop.

The fact is - Naz beat all the elite/best featherweights of his day and ducked nobody.

The end.

To bad the good ones were all past there prime. And the ones that were, weren't that good. Fact.

Another fact is Hamed never beat an elite fighter in his prime.

Prime is debatable.

The only bombproof unquestionable fact is - Naz beat all the elite/best most decorated featherweights of his day and ducked nobody. Fact.

Whoomp there it is