Top 5 P4P Now?

[Kev]

Martinez isnt top 5 lb4lb fighter in the world

he is a very good fighter but hasnt done enough to be top 5

geeky i know but i have just boxrecced his last 5 fights

Williams W KO 2
Pavlik W UD
Williams L MD
Cintron D
Bunema W RTD 8

there are many boxers with better records in their last 5 fights

Disagree. His first fight with Williams could have gone either way, many thought Williams won. And Williams, despite having a rather crude looking style is a very very effective fighter who was absolutely p4p worthy when he fought Martinez. He has beaten some good guys and Martinez argubaly went 2 up against him. Pavlik is a fine win and led himt o being the ring champ at 160 and a two weight world champ. Kintron is an acomplished fighter and I can only assume you didnt see the fight if you are counting that as a draw. Martinez KOd him in the middle rounds but he was allowed to continue, and he clearly outpointed him only to somehow get robbed in a frankly baffling decision.
He is a beast for anyone around those weight classes.

[erics44]

Martinez isnt top 5 lb4lb fighter in the world

he is a very good fighter but hasnt done enough to be top 5

geeky i know but i have just boxrecced his last 5 fights

Williams W KO 2
Pavlik W UD
Williams L MD
Cintron D
Bunema W RTD 8

there are many boxers with better records in their last 5 fights

Disagree. His first fight with Williams could have gone either way, many thought Williams won. And Williams, despite having a rather crude looking style is a very very effective fighter who was absolutely p4p worthy when he fought Martinez. He has beaten some good guys and Martinez argubaly went 2 up against him. Pavlik is a fine win and led himt o being the ring champ at 160 and a two weight world champ. Kintron is an acomplished fighter and I can only assume you didnt see the fight if you are counting that as a draw. Martinez KOd him in the middle rounds but he was allowed to continue, and he clearly outpointed him only to somehow get robbed in a frankly baffling decision.
He is a beast for anyone around those weight classes.

and a lot seem to agree with you

you could put a different spin on it tho

he lost to williams first time, yes williams is a good fighter but he still lost

pavlik was a good win but what state was pavlik in at the time? and wasnt it the same pavlik who had been taken apart by hopkins? ok at a higher weight but still a hopkins who himself had not long since fought at middleweight

and the cintron fight may have been a bad descision but cintron wasnt exactly in great form and he still won enough rounds to make the descison acceptable

he is a cracking fighter, but I dont think he has done enough to warrant top 5

[Rantcatrat]

Martinez isnt top 5 lb4lb fighter in the world

he is a very good fighter but hasnt done enough to be top 5

geeky i know but i have just boxrecced his last 5 fights

Williams W KO 2
Pavlik W UD
Williams L MD
Cintron D
Bunema W RTD 8

there are many boxers with better records in their last 5 fights

Disagree. His first fight with Williams could have gone either way, many thought Williams won. And Williams, despite having a rather crude looking style is a very very effective fighter who was absolutely p4p worthy when he fought Martinez. He has beaten some good guys and Martinez argubaly went 2 up against him. Pavlik is a fine win and led himt o being the ring champ at 160 and a two weight world champ. Kintron is an acomplished fighter and I can only assume you didnt see the fight if you are counting that as a draw. Martinez KOd him in the middle rounds but he was allowed to continue, and he clearly outpointed him only to somehow get robbed in a frankly baffling decision.
He is a beast for anyone around those weight classes.

and a lot seem to agree with you

you could put a different spin on it tho

he lost to williams first time, yes williams is a good fighter but he still lost

pavlik was a good win but what state was pavlik in at the time? and wasnt it the same pavlik who had been taken apart by hopkins? ok at a higher weight but still a hopkins who himself had not long since fought at middleweight

and the cintron fight may have been a bad descision but cintron wasnt exactly in great form and he still won enough rounds to make the descison acceptable

he is a cracking fighter, but I dont think he has done enough to warrant top 5

For one, I don't think you are considering that Martinez has accomplished this over two weight classes.

In addition, say what you want to say about Pavlik, but Pavlik was the universally recognized top middleweight in the world (AA had moved up in weight at that time) and probably a top 20 p4p fighter on most lists. His only loss of his whole career was to Hopkins at 170. Losing to a p4p fighter in Hopkins outside of your weight class isn't a bad loss.

Martinez beat Pavlik moving up in weight from 154 to 160.

Williams was a top ten p4p fighter on most lists at the time of each fight. Even if he lost to Williams the first time (many thought he won) he still lost a very close decision to a top ten p4p fighter. Recall that Marquez was completely and utterly dominated by Mayweather and barely went down at all in the p4p rankings. Bernard lost to Calzaghe and barely went down in the p4p rankings. The reason is that they both lost to other great p4p fighters. Either way, he then knocked out a top ten p4p Paul Williams in the rematch.

Beating the best middleweight in the world (top 20 p4p) and Paul Williams ( top ten p4p) gets you on the p4p list.

One more thing to add. Cintron was in fine form coming into that fight with Martinez. He had just beat Ndou and in his next fight he outboxed Alfredo Angulo.

Also, compare Martinez to other p4p guys. Look at Marquez. Marquez beat Kastidis, not a top 5 lightweight let alone p4p guy (I'm a huge fan, don't get me wrong), Diaz, not a top 5 lightweight and not very good, lost to Mayweather by a wide margin, Diaz again, and an old Casamayor who had just gone life and death with Kastidis. I'm not hating on Marquez, he should be top ten p4p. But, beating Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik is better than anything he's done in his last 5 fights. How about comparing him to Donaire? Montiel (big win), Sidorenko (barely top ten in his division), Marquez (who?), Vargas (same), Concepion. I think a good argument can be made that Martinez's win over Paul Williams is as big as Donaire's over Montiel and his win over Pavlik is by far better than any name on Donaire's other four competitors. Yet, Donaire is a consensus top five p4p guy right now.

Either way, if Martinez beats Dzinziruk, the consensus top junior middleweight in the world, can we agree he should move back up to number three in the p4p list?

[erics44]

For one, I don't think you are considering that Martinez has accomplished this over two weight classes.

In addition, say what you want to say about Pavlik, but Pavlik was the universally recognized top middleweight in the world (AA had moved up in weight at that time) and probably a top 20 p4p fighter on most lists. His only loss of his whole career was to Hopkins at 170. Losing to a p4p fighter in Hopkins outside of your weight class isn't a bad loss.

Martinez beat Pavlik moving up in weight from 154 to 160.

Williams was a top ten p4p fighter on most lists at the time of each fight. Even if he lost to Williams the first time (many thought he won) he still lost a very close decision to a top ten p4p fighter. Recall that Marquez was completely and utterly dominated by Mayweather and barely went down at all in the p4p rankings. Bernard lost to Calzaghe and barely went down in the p4p rankings. The reason is that they both lost to other great p4p fighters. Either way, he then knocked out a top ten p4p Paul Williams in the rematch.

Beating the best middleweight in the world (top 20 p4p) and Paul Williams ( top ten p4p) gets you on the p4p list.

One more thing to add. Cintron was in fine form coming into that fight with Martinez. He had just beat Ndou and in his next fight he outboxed Alfredo Angulo.

Also, compare Martinez to other p4p guys. Look at Marquez. Marquez beat Kastidis, not a top 5 lightweight let alone p4p guy (I'm a huge fan, don't get me wrong), Diaz, not a top 5 lightweight and not very good, lost to Mayweather by a wide margin, Diaz again, and an old Casamayor who had just gone life and death with Kastidis. I'm not hating on Marquez, he should be top ten p4p. But, beating Paul Williams and Kelly Pavlik is better than anything he's done in his last 5 fights. How about comparing him to Donaire? Montiel (big win), Sidorenko (barely top ten in his division), Marquez (who?), Vargas (same), Concepion. I think a good argument can be made that Martinez's win over Paul Williams is as big as Donaire's over Montiel and his win over Pavlik is by far better than any name on Donaire's other four competitors. Yet, Donaire is a consensus top five p4p guy right now.

Either way, if Martinez beats Dzinziruk, the consensus top junior middleweight in the world, can we agree he should move back up to number three in the p4p list?

im not sure he has accomplished all this at 2 weights, the two wins that you are shouting about were at middleweight werent they?

look i can understand yours and everyones love for him, he is a great boxer and a nice fella, and alt6hough those 2 wins are great wins i dont think that is enough to bring him the status he seems to be getting

cintron previous 2 fights were a loss to margarito and a win against ndou who is a good boxer but everyone in the top 15 beats