I am attempting to join the ARMY.

[generalbulldog]

Like wise so you have no problem with me saying what I'm saying.

You and miles are a pair. Both can not read or only read the parts you want to comment on.

Do I have a problem with you being a Bigot and a Racist? Nope. There are too many in the world to try and have a problem with that.

Do I have a problem with you using the label "Freedom of Speech" to offer your opinion on a forum. Nope, that's what people fought and died for since before you were born, my self included. The fact that you use it as blanket excuse to shit on people. You bet I do

Do I have a problem with your generation's lack of "Respect" and "Common Courtesy" of those around you and other peoples rights. You bet I do. But I blame the governments of the world for that and your parents. When they took away the right's of the parents to discipline their children, you'r generation is the result. "God" help those that follow this generation.

I could spend at least a week listing all the "Rights" of others this generation shit on daily, but I don't have the time or the energy to explain to you or any one else on here where your family made their mistakes in raising you.

Well said old man.

Speaking of lacking respect and common courtesy. A while back there was a bigot going on how he hated foreigners at this art gallery that many artists came together to show off our work. You wouldn't believe the nasty comments coming out. A festive atmosphere of enthusiastic artists from all walks of life getting together talking about art turned into an awkward and tense atmosphere. The idiot at the art gallery can say what he wants, but the piece of crap lacked any sense of decency, respect, or common courtesy. He also used the whole "freedom of speech" and "personal opinion" and "I'm in a free country, I can say what I want," excuse. Sounds familiar?

People like Ghost and myself aren't offended by people's different opinions, we are offended by the manner on how it is said.

And since Ghost and myself had to point out which parts of your "freedom of speech/opinion" was rude, disgusting, crass, and impolite, then your parents and community did a piss poor job of giving you any sense of respect, courtesy, or decent values.

[Gandalf]

Well, again Ghost has been rude to me and I did nothing to warrant it. That in itself is a lack of respect. I questioned his attitude regarding violence towards children and was told that I had selective reading issues and again he has said it in the previous post. I understood his post perfectly well. I disagreed with it and simply emphasised the point that I was particularly displeased with.

I thought everything was cool, but again my name is being brought up. Seems some people on here want the discourse to sound like Bach whilst at the same time be able to be rude to other people themselves. Just not cool either.

[Gandalf]

I am not that offended really, but am just pointing out that sometimes those harping on about courtesy can also come across as arrogant and rude in their own ways too. Respect works on many levels.

The only times I really get offended are when people go on a sad click rampage (I'm quite over that now though) or call me names in an aggressive manner. That usually happens when I express a particular opinion about something. It bewilders me actually that people can be so offended by an opinion that they they just start cussing and calling names. I'm not talking about Ghost here at all who has never done that, but just giving my general thoughts about when others become rude and disrespectful. On the whole I try not to call names or insult people, but I do sometimes snap after someone calls me a name and I retaliate, on the whole I try not to though. The only time I have really gone off the deep end was with Yuri Foreman, but thankfully he doesn't post here. Usually I am man enough to apologise if I think I have gone a bit too far and every man should have the courage to do so. Not everyone can though.

[Gandalf]

I feel like posting some more, so I will.

Everyone is going on about respect, but I think Boozeboxer made a very good point earlier in this thread. Basically, No Contest has started a thread saying that he is joining the army and on the whole it has been a lot of backslapping and handshakes, which is nice. But I struggle to see why people are getting so upset when a dissident voice comes into the mix. We all know Hornfinger has his own particular posting style and that it is rather in your face, but I don't think that No Contest has been in any way upset by any of it. I happen to think he has made some very good points and it is good to make someone think more about the important life decision that is going to be made. No contest will either listen to it or dismiss it and that is his call, but the only ones getting upset by it are people who have absolutely no stake in that decision.

Just seems a bit silly to me. Nobody has attempted to counter any of Hornfingers arguments at all and that is quite telling. Instead it's a whole lot of "Young man, you must stay in your place and show some respect!". It is absurd really. Like I said earlier, I wish No contest well and will respect whatever decision he comes to make, but for others to attempt to wash out any discussion of that life choice is too much. This is a hidden board on a boxing site and it thrives on a bunch of oddballs saying their thing and acting in their own particular ways. I wouldn't want to eradicate any of that. Sure, I want people to get along and on the whole most of us do, but as long as none of us going too far and saying "No contest, I hate the military, you motherfucker. Die!", then none of us should be getting too upset. That last example is obviously where the line is crossed and I think everyone would agree on that, but I don't think that line has been reached.

[No Contest]

Gaza militants fire rockets deep into Israel - Yahoo! News
Eh Miles? You know you want to.

[Gandalf]

Gaza militants fire rockets deep into Israel - Yahoo! News
Eh Miles? You know you want to.

See what I mean, No Contest is loving the attention. He is even urging me to comment on the Palestinian issue. That's how laid back he is about it all. That is what I like, a top fellow.

As for the rockets being fired into Israel, well I wish they wouldn't do that. But likewise, I really wish that the Israeli's wouldn't build settlements on illegally occupied lands. The whole thing is a mighty clusterfuck and only Norman Finkelstein can make any sense of it all. You see how the US holds their hand and says that what the Gazan's are doing is 'repugnant' but at the same time it is repugnant that in the UN the US refuses to endorse a resolution condemning the settlements as illegal or how the blockade was tolerated for so many years. A very obvious case of the US taking sides and acting in an extremely questionable manner.

That's all I am going to say on that issue as I want to see where Hornfinger takes this thread next. Though I am sure Booze is devising some kind of SALT 3 or something along those lines.

[No Contest]

Gaza militants fire rockets deep into Israel - Yahoo! News
Eh Miles? You know you want to.

See what I mean, No Contest is loving the attention. He is even urging me to comment on the Palestinian issue. That's how laid back he is about it all. That is what I like, a top fellow.

As for the rockets being fired into Israel, well I wish they wouldn't do that. But likewise, I really wish that the Israeli's wouldn't build settlements on illegally occupied lands. The whole thing is a mighty clusterfuck and only Norman Finkelstein can make any sense of it all. You see how the US holds their hand and says that what the Gazan's are doing is 'repugnant' but at the same time it is repugnant that in the UN the US refuses to endorse a resolution condemning the settlements as illegal or how the blockade was tolerated for so many years. A very obvious case of the US taking sides and acting in an extremely questionable manner.

That's all I am going to say on that issue as I want to see where Hornfinger takes this thread next. Though I am sure Booze is devising some kind of SALT 3 or something along those lines.

BILBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?!!?!!
Notice it was all quiet just building houses for people to live in, then bam rockets. Nice way to get your point across I guess, what happened to peaceful protests?

[generalbulldog]

I feel like posting some more, so I will.

Everyone is going on about respect, but I think Boozeboxer made a very good point earlier in this thread. Basically, No Contest has started a thread saying that he is joining the army and on the whole it has been a lot of backslapping and handshakes, which is nice. But I struggle to see why people are getting so upset when a dissident voice comes into the mix. We all know Hornfinger has his own particular posting style and that it is rather in your face, but I don't think that No Contest has been in any way upset by any of it. I happen to think he has made some very good points and it is good to make someone think more about the important life decision that is going to be made. No contest will either listen to it or dismiss it and that is his call, but the only ones getting upset by it are people who have absolutely no stake in that decision.

Just seems a bit silly to me. Nobody has attempted to counter any of Hornfingers arguments at all and that is quite telling. Instead it's a whole lot of "Young man, you must stay in your place and show some respect!". It is absurd really. Like I said earlier, I wish No contest well and will respect whatever decision he comes to make, but for others to attempt to wash out any discussion of that life choice is too much. This is a hidden board on a boxing site and it thrives on a bunch of oddballs saying their thing and acting in their own particular ways. I wouldn't want to eradicate any of that. Sure, I want people to get along and on the whole most of us do, but as long as none of us going too far and saying "No contest, I hate the military, you motherfucker. Die!", then none of us should be getting too upset. That last example is obviously where the line is crossed and I think everyone would agree on that, but I don't think that line has been reached.

Ah, but here's the thing Miles, never has anyone in this thread has a problem with any dissenting voice it was the manner in that it was presented, the troll's 1st post was on how the guy was wasting his life in joining the military and that he was going to murder and bully people just because he likes to. To you that is not disrepectfull or rude, but to others it is. And about addressing or rebutting it? It was done by Vanchilds who attempted to humor the troll a few pages back. And Ghost is right you are very selective in what you want to read where you pick and choose and tend to put words in other people's mouth and then try to rebut that imaginary viewpoint that others didn't put forth. Him and I never did once said we had problems with other people's opinions as you and the troll asserted. And don't forget it was Ghost and I that brought up about other people's viewpoints, opinions, and freedom of speech. It was you and the troll that asserted we were against the dissenting opinion.

BTW, Booze gave his opinion. I don't have a problem with it and I'm pretty sure others don't. Why? Because it wasn't rude, crass, and disrespectful. Hell even VD gave his opinion and it wasn't rude.

One last thing don't put words in other people's mouth or misinterpret it when you're trying to debate. I'm pretty sure you know what strawman arguments are.

[Gandalf]

I feel like posting some more, so I will.

Everyone is going on about respect, but I think Boozeboxer made a very good point earlier in this thread. Basically, No Contest has started a thread saying that he is joining the army and on the whole it has been a lot of backslapping and handshakes, which is nice. But I struggle to see why people are getting so upset when a dissident voice comes into the mix. We all know Hornfinger has his own particular posting style and that it is rather in your face, but I don't think that No Contest has been in any way upset by any of it. I happen to think he has made some very good points and it is good to make someone think more about the important life decision that is going to be made. No contest will either listen to it or dismiss it and that is his call, but the only ones getting upset by it are people who have absolutely no stake in that decision.

Just seems a bit silly to me. Nobody has attempted to counter any of Hornfingers arguments at all and that is quite telling. Instead it's a whole lot of "Young man, you must stay in your place and show some respect!". It is absurd really. Like I said earlier, I wish No contest well and will respect whatever decision he comes to make, but for others to attempt to wash out any discussion of that life choice is too much. This is a hidden board on a boxing site and it thrives on a bunch of oddballs saying their thing and acting in their own particular ways. I wouldn't want to eradicate any of that. Sure, I want people to get along and on the whole most of us do, but as long as none of us going too far and saying "No contest, I hate the military, you motherfucker. Die!", then none of us should be getting too upset. That last example is obviously where the line is crossed and I think everyone would agree on that, but I don't think that line has been reached.

Ah, but here's the thing Miles, never has anyone in this thread has a problem with any dissenting voice it was the manner in that it was presented, the troll's 1st post was on how the guy was wasting his life in joining the military and that he was going to murder and bully people just because he likes to. To you that is not disrepectfull or rude, but to others it is. And about addressing or rebutting it? It was done by Vanchilds who attempted to humor the troll a few pages back. And Ghost is right you are very selective in what you want to read where you pick and choose and tend to put words in other people's mouth and then try to rebut that imaginary viewpoint that others didn't put forth. Him and I never did once said we had problems with other people's opinions as you and the troll asserted. And don't forget it was Ghost and I that brought up about other people's viewpoints, opinions, and freedom of speech. It was you and the troll that asserted we were against the dissenting opinion.

BTW, Booze gave his opinion. I don't have a problem with it and I'm pretty sure others don't. Why? Because it wasn't rude, crass, and disrespectful. Hell even VD gave his opinion and it wasn't rude.

One last thing don't put words in other people's mouth or misinterpret it when you're trying to debate. I'm pretty sure you know what strawman arguments are.

I have already said that I think Hornfinger could use a little more tact, but at the end of the day No Contest seems pretty cool about everything so I don't really get why it is such a big deal.

And I do not put words in peoples mouths. You did that yesterday by falsely quoting me, but it was done in humour and it was funny. That is putting words in peoples mouths, all I do is take the part of the argument that I have issues with and then I hash it out. I have already said I agree with aspects of what Ghost said, but take exception to the bullying tone of something like "if you were my kid then you wouldn't sit down for a month". I don't like that and I said as much. Now where does this imply that I am skipping anything? I have skipped nothing, but simply raised my concerns about the part that I didn't actually agree with.

[Ghost]

You know Ghost theres a massive difference between our grandparents and parents joining the army to fight the war. This issue can be down to two words; Gain or Protect

To a point, I agree. In today's world that is.

Only yesterday some of our good old Australian army boys in Afghanistan were caught on facebook and texting saying they want to squash some sand niggers etc.that the locals stink and should be eradicated etc.One said he cant wait to run some fukker down in his tank. The percentage of mindless numnuts involved these days is much larger than in days past.

And which generation are they. And where are they leading us to?

Our Grand parents and Parents were mostly of a different cut.
We also got picked on back then and there was a threat to us all at home and in the whole the world. The Japs wouldnt have stopped, the Germans wouldnt have stopped either. They threw the first punch both times.

We do the traveling to fight now and it is sold to us through the false religion excuse thats used by both sides on both sides. In reality it is control of people through oil prices and finances that is at the top priority of both 'sides'. Both sides leaders dupe their populations into hating each other. I see both 'sides' as actually being against freedom for all people. Most people dont want sides or conflict most want the cash wasted on battle poured into feeding dying countries and into fighting the evil bastards hurting those innocents on ground level.

We are shitting into nature,on animals and on other people and we are getting sold the excuses for why we can do it. Why we can allow a whole country to starve to death and yet we have to go and fight for another countries people! Bull shit! right there is living proof that it is all bull shit we are being fed.

You want to fight for that to continue? I dont. But I wont stop others their choice to do so because that would be control of their freedom of choice.

The "War" part of this thread has nothing to do with "My" issue's dealing with this thread. No Contest has made his choice and I can respect that. I have always been out spoken on issue's dealing with "Freedom of Speech", Freedom of Choice", "Animal Right's", "Property Rights" and a list of other issues. I am on more government watch list then you can shake a stick at.


As for the rest of your post, time will tell how true it becomes and which generation hands it over

Wait until there is no finance to fight over, no oil price to control, no power grids to protect and all of our communications are down world wide. Even when the excuses for why are removed, some people will still continue to shoot others for gain and control. Thats where the line will be finally drawn. Long live the real protectors of others .

[Ghost]

Well, again Ghost has been rude to me and I did nothing to warrant it. That in itself is a lack of respect. I questioned his attitude regarding violence towards children and was told that I had selective reading issues and again he has said it in the previous post. I understood his post perfectly well. I disagreed with it and simply emphasised the point that I was particularly displeased with.

I thought everything was cool, but again my name is being brought up. Seems some people on here want the discourse to sound like Bach whilst at the same time be able to be rude to other people themselves. Just not cool either.

Guess you have never been spanked when you were a kid, miles. Spanking has nothing to do with "violence". I am Not talking about beating a child to within an inch of their lives here. There is A Big difference.

Not one of my kids would dis-respect people the way they do here in this section of the forum and I have 5 kids, all over the age of 30. My kids will show people the respect they deserve because of the way they were raised and the discipline they received when they were young. Take note, I said discipline, not "Beating".

Rude? Calling you a pussy wiped sadsack, baby killing SOB would be rude. Telling you that you did not read my post correctly or mis-quoted me, is correcting a mis-understanding. Again, Big difference.


I have no problems with your point of views on politics, religion or any thing else you want to post about. Or anyone else's. I do have a problem with being mis-quoted, mis-read and people in general who try and shove their point of view down my throat, under the banner of "Freedom of Speech".

[Gandalf]

Well, again Ghost has been rude to me and I did nothing to warrant it. That in itself is a lack of respect. I questioned his attitude regarding violence towards children and was told that I had selective reading issues and again he has said it in the previous post. I understood his post perfectly well. I disagreed with it and simply emphasised the point that I was particularly displeased with.

I thought everything was cool, but again my name is being brought up. Seems some people on here want the discourse to sound like Bach whilst at the same time be able to be rude to other people themselves. Just not cool either.

Guess you have never been spanked when you were a kid, miles. Spanking has nothing to do with "violence". I am Not talking about beating a child to within an inch of their lives here. There is A Big difference.

Not one of my kids would dis-respect people the way they do here in this section of the forum and I have 5 kids, all over the age of 30. My kids will show people the respect they deserve because of the way they were raised and the discipline they received when they were young. Take note, I said discipline, not "Beating".

Rude? Calling you a pussy wiped sadsack, baby killing SOB would be rude. Telling you that you did not read my post correctly or mis-quoted me, is correcting a mis-understanding. Again, Big difference.


I have no problems with your point of views on politics, religion or any thing else you want to post about. Or anyone else's. I do have a problem with being mis-quoted, mis-read and people in general who try and shove their point of view down my throat, under the banner of "Freedom of Speech".

Yes, I was hit as a child and though on some occasions it was warranted, on numerous others it was simply because my mother was poorly equipped to be a parent and wasn't willing to put the time in to understand her children. Basically I have grown up to rebel against everything that my parents have stood for in their lives and one of those things is needless violence. I just don't think that is fair, but like I say I can understand the occasional slap. I don't think our core values are all that far apart really, but that comment about not being able to sit down for a month, seemed a somewhat harsh thing to say to another poster well into his 20's. I don't think I have any problems with you nor GB, but did feel it unfair to single me out for not reading what you said. I did read and understand what you said. In fact I agreed with the vast bulk of it.

[VictorCharlie]

I believe No Contest started a thread stating he was trying to join the Army.

Many different beliefs on whether that is a good or prudent decision.

He in reality has asked the forum members, so I believe Hornfinger owed it to his fellow poster to state that he believed it was a waste of time.

The bottom line is Hornfinger is of an opinion similar of many people you will encounter, whether they tell you or not. I think it is only fair he would be told this before he joined.

If this is only a puff piece giving slaps-on-the-back and attaboy's, he might as well join an Army Forum.


Before someone gives their life away they ought to be able to have several idea's given. Just because some dude in Texas who is life-long military thinks it is a great idea, doesn't automatically invalidate other opinions on it.

That guy is an asshole anyway

In all seriousness Booze is correct that joining any military service is a serious decision and shouldn't be taken lightly. For one, the military is more than just a job it is a lifestyle and people need to think long and hard if they can conform to it b/c if they can't their time in uniform will be unpleasant. Two, while a very small percent of the U.S. military has ever had to actually pull the trigger it is something to be considered. No Contest should put serious thought into how he feels about the prospect of using lethal force. Its not cool or glamorous and I have never nor have I ever allowed my Soldiers to act like they just scored a game winning goal. In the end it is really impossible to know how you will react in the instant and afterward. Lastly, the military doesn't create foreign policy they execute it. So No Contest should be aware that he might be told to go to a foreign country for a mission he doesn't really believe in. Honestly I've never sat around thinking a whole lot about what the over arching strategic meaning of my deployment was. If I wasn't in uniform, some other guy would be leading the same eight Soldiers I am, so I'd just as soon it be me. I didn't address these issues in my first post b/c quite frankly it is my experience that people have reconciled them before they step into an Army recruiters office. Hornfinger's isn't wrong to challenge No Contests desire to serve I just wish he would have shown a little more class in doing it. Lastly military member's roles are often equated just to the conflicts we see on the news. As I pointed out earlier there is a tremendous amount of real service and humanitarian aid carried out that has nothing to do with putting lead down range. If you are a victim of a horrific natural disaster around the world there is a good chance that a U.S. service member is somewhere nearby helping people.

By the way this thread has gotten really strange.

[Gandalf]

Totally, this thread has become extremely weird. I have managed to get embroiled in a thread about the army without even giving my opinions on that subject. I don't know what's going on. Parental disciplinary strategies appear to have been the very next thing on my agenda along with a desire to see Hornfinger follow through with the kind of arguments that I promised myself I would abstain from. But yes, it has become downright strange.

[boozeboxer]

First, Miles, I don't see how SALT III is relevant at all.

Second, VictorCharlie, although the military doesn't make foreign policy--they implement it, I think it is very naive answer to disregard what the US military foreign policy has done in the past before joining. Just because you don't make the policy, if you sign up for something that clearly has hundreds of years history---you should at least be aware of that.

In an obviously extreme example: if I worked at an abortion clinic and mopped the floors---I don't make the policy there I just implement it---clearly I am at least in some way being complacent about the situation.