Does Manny stop Shane?

[Gandalf]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

[Gandalf]

Meh. Name me 1 fighter in boxing history where you cannot pick apart his resume. There is no such thing as a flawless resume.

And BTW, the majority of people here had Hatton beating Pac, and at least half of the forum had Cotto beating him. And quite a few had Margarito beating Pac. Same people in this thread too. Hell it's the same on other boxing forums too. But after the victories it was some excuse.

Except the great Sven Ottke

Quite true. Amen to this.

[miron_lang]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

LOL. You just describe some negative stuffs in your mind about those fighters. You mean they are the reason they got the fight againts Pacquiao?

Bulldogs above post is actually a good reply to this post.

---

i see your memory is not as good as it used to be. but i still like to ask you this question.


Before these fights took place do you remember how you feel leading up this so called cherry picked fights?

[generalbulldog]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

No offense Miles, but you can't make excuses now after those victories. When if I'm not mistaken you were one of the loudest supporters that Hatton and Cotto would murder Pac. You can't be Nastradamus now after the fact and make excuses why Hatton and Cotto lost. If you felt that way then maybe you should have said it beforehand and said Pac would win those fights easily and not come out with excuses now after the fights took place and they lost.

That's one thing that always bother me about boxing fans that they come out with every excuse to downgrade another fighter's win, when they picked the other guy to win in the first place.

[Gandalf]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

No offense Miles, but you can't make excuses now after those victories. When if I'm not mistaken you were one of the loudest supporters that Hatton and Cotto would murder Pac. You can't be Nastradamus now after the fact and make excuses why Hatton and Cotto lost. If you felt that way then maybe you should have said it beforehand and said Pac would win those fights easily and not come out with excuses now after the fights took place and they lost.

That's one thing that always bother me about boxing fans that they come out with every excuse to downgrade another fighter's win, when they picked the other guy to win in the first place.

I was a huge supporter of Hatton winning the fight. It was the last time I ever jumped into the ring building up a fighter. Just as some men marry and deny their secret gayness, a fan will get behind his fighter and ignore the chinks. I did just that and I learned a valuable lesson (chinks, not marriage.... though some of you might argue otherwise). I was wrong. With Cotto I was much more guarded and was quite angry about the catchweight.

None of us really knew how Manny would carry the weight. History is not written in the present, views are often revised. Just as we realised that WMD didn't exist, we also came to realise that there was a pattern in how Manny chose opponents.

That is why I try not to underestimate fighters too unfairly these days. Those recent performances do mean something. And you do see a pattern in Manny's recent opponents. All very good fighters, but typically coming in off of a nasty beating or dropping weight when they shouldn't.

Manny is still an exceptional fighter though.

[Gandalf]

There were even those rumours of Hatton getting busted up in training. What did I do? I ignored it. The enemy was bombing away over the bunker and there was Hitler saying "we shall resist and beat them yet". I put my head in the sand and I deserve to be called out on that fight. One can still revise ones opinion though, just as Blair might admit that he was wrong about WMD, I can say that I was wrong about that fight. I was wrong, hands up. But this is boxing, unless you back the favourite everytime, then you are going to fuck up in your predictions sometimes. It's a sport, man against man, it isn't a place where logic is always the deciding factor. You support a guy, you must get behind him. Though I don't do it anymore. That fight changed me.

[generalbulldog]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

No offense Miles, but you can't make excuses now after those victories. When if I'm not mistaken you were one of the loudest supporters that Hatton and Cotto would murder Pac. You can't be Nastradamus now after the fact and make excuses why Hatton and Cotto lost. If you felt that way then maybe you should have said it beforehand and said Pac would win those fights easily and not come out with excuses now after the fights took place and they lost.

That's one thing that always bother me about boxing fans that they come out with every excuse to downgrade another fighter's win, when they picked the other guy to win in the first place.

I was a huge supporter of Hatton winning the fight. It was the last time I ever jumped into the ring building up a fighter. Just as some men marry and deny their secret gayness, a fan will get behind his fighter and ignore the chinks. I did just that and I learned a valuable lesson (chinks, not marriage.... though some of you might argue otherwise). I was wrong. With Cotto I was much more guarded and was quite angry about the catchweight.

None of us really knew how Manny would carry the weight. History is not written in the present, views are often revised. Just as we realised that WMD didn't exist, we also came to realise that there was a pattern in how Manny chose opponents.

That is why I try not to underestimate fighters too unfairly these days. Those recent performances do mean something. And you do see a pattern in Manny's recent opponents. All very good fighters, but typically coming in off of a nasty beating or dropping weight when they shouldn't.

Manny is still an exceptional fighter though.

Ah, but here's the thing though. You can do that with any fighter in the history of the sport and downgrade their victory and question it. It just sounds a lot like sour grapes to me. Did you not see my post on Muhammad Ali's resume on the last page of this thread? Ali is considered by many to be the sport's greatest HW especially in terms of achievement and resume. And I shredded and downgrade his best performances like it's nothing. Another member here said that it's hard to shred some resume, I said if one wants to they can do it for any fighter in history if they have the information of what went on and films of those fights beforehand.

I think you did mentioned your favorite fighters were MAB and Hatton. Someone with enough info can shred their resume and downgrade their achievements like it's nothing, but that just makes one look like that they have an agenda.

In modern slang today it's called "haterism."

[Gandalf]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

No offense Miles, but you can't make excuses now after those victories. When if I'm not mistaken you were one of the loudest supporters that Hatton and Cotto would murder Pac. You can't be Nastradamus now after the fact and make excuses why Hatton and Cotto lost. If you felt that way then maybe you should have said it beforehand and said Pac would win those fights easily and not come out with excuses now after the fights took place and they lost.

That's one thing that always bother me about boxing fans that they come out with every excuse to downgrade another fighter's win, when they picked the other guy to win in the first place.

I was a huge supporter of Hatton winning the fight. It was the last time I ever jumped into the ring building up a fighter. Just as some men marry and deny their secret gayness, a fan will get behind his fighter and ignore the chinks. I did just that and I learned a valuable lesson (chinks, not marriage.... though some of you might argue otherwise). I was wrong. With Cotto I was much more guarded and was quite angry about the catchweight.

None of us really knew how Manny would carry the weight. History is not written in the present, views are often revised. Just as we realised that WMD didn't exist, we also came to realise that there was a pattern in how Manny chose opponents.

That is why I try not to underestimate fighters too unfairly these days. Those recent performances do mean something. And you do see a pattern in Manny's recent opponents. All very good fighters, but typically coming in off of a nasty beating or dropping weight when they shouldn't.

Manny is still an exceptional fighter though.

Ah, but here's the thing though. You can do that with any fighter in the history of the sport and downgrade their victory and question it. It just sounds a lot like sour grapes to me. Did you not see my post on Muhammad Ali's resume on the last page of this thread? Ali is considered by many to be the sport's greatest HW especially in terms of achievement and resume. And I shredded and downgrade his best performances like it's nothing. Another member here said that it's hard to shred some resume, I said if one wants to they can do it for any fighter in history if they have the information of what went on and films of those fights beforehand.

I think you did mentioned your favorite fighters were MAB and Hatton. Someone with enough info can shred their resume and downgrade their achievements like it's nothing, but that just makes one look like that they have an agenda.

In modern slang today it's called "haterism."

Even at the time I criticised each of Pac's recent opponents from Cotto and beyond. I was critical of Diaz too, but everyone was. The only one I went blind with was Hatton and he was one of my top 3 favourites.

On the whole only the Hatton performance has seen me undergo any revisionism. Take away that and you still have much the same perspective.

[generalbulldog]

There were even those rumours of Hatton getting busted up in training. What did I do? I ignored it. The enemy was bombing away over the bunker and there was Hitler saying "we shall resist and beat them yet". I put my head in the sand and I deserve to be called out on that fight. One can still revise ones opinion though, just as Blair might admit that he was wrong about WMD, I can say that I was wrong about that fight. I was wrong, hands up. But this is boxing, unless you back the favourite everytime, then you are going to fuck up in your predictions sometimes. It's a sport, man against man, it isn't a place where logic is always the deciding factor. You support a guy, you must get behind him. Though I don't do it anymore. That fight changed me.

Everyone fucks up their predictions. But give credit where it's due that's what I'm saying. Stop going with excuses. Now it's because Hatton had a bad training camp and was getting busted up that's why he lost? Hatton on his best night would still lose to Pac on his best. Why? Because the talent gap was enormous. Hatton may have lasted 2 or 3 more rounds, but he would never beat Pac. He just doesn't have it, whether it's handspeed, footspeed, chin, boxing ability, compared to Pac. That's the reality, 1 fighter was just better.

[Gandalf]

There were even those rumours of Hatton getting busted up in training. What did I do? I ignored it. The enemy was bombing away over the bunker and there was Hitler saying "we shall resist and beat them yet". I put my head in the sand and I deserve to be called out on that fight. One can still revise ones opinion though, just as Blair might admit that he was wrong about WMD, I can say that I was wrong about that fight. I was wrong, hands up. But this is boxing, unless you back the favourite everytime, then you are going to fuck up in your predictions sometimes. It's a sport, man against man, it isn't a place where logic is always the deciding factor. You support a guy, you must get behind him. Though I don't do it anymore. That fight changed me.

Everyone fucks up their predictions. But give credit where it's due that's what I'm saying. Stop going with excuses. Now it's because Hatton had a bad training camp and was getting busted up that's why he lost? Hatton on his best night would still lose to Pac on his best. Why? Because the talent gap was enormous. Hatton may have lasted 2 or 3 more rounds, but he would never beat Pac. He just doesn't have it, whether it's handspeed, footspeed, chin, boxing ability, compared to Pac.

Now it's very easy to say that with hindsight too. I bet you weren't so sure of that at the time though, you probably hedged your views. Nobody expected what we saw that night. Nobody thought Hatton would get blown away that easily. It was a shocker, even Manny had no idea.

[generalbulldog]

There were even those rumours of Hatton getting busted up in training. What did I do? I ignored it. The enemy was bombing away over the bunker and there was Hitler saying "we shall resist and beat them yet". I put my head in the sand and I deserve to be called out on that fight. One can still revise ones opinion though, just as Blair might admit that he was wrong about WMD, I can say that I was wrong about that fight. I was wrong, hands up. But this is boxing, unless you back the favourite everytime, then you are going to fuck up in your predictions sometimes. It's a sport, man against man, it isn't a place where logic is always the deciding factor. You support a guy, you must get behind him. Though I don't do it anymore. That fight changed me.

Everyone fucks up their predictions. But give credit where it's due that's what I'm saying. Stop going with excuses. Now it's because Hatton had a bad training camp and was getting busted up that's why he lost? Hatton on his best night would still lose to Pac on his best. Why? Because the talent gap was enormous. Hatton may have lasted 2 or 3 more rounds, but he would never beat Pac. He just doesn't have it, whether it's handspeed, footspeed, chin, boxing ability, compared to Pac.

Now it's very easy to say that with hindsight too. I bet you weren't so sure of that at the time though, you probably hedged your views. Nobody expected what we saw that night. Nobody thought Hatton would get blown away that easily. It was a shocker, even Manny had no idea.

I actually thought Pac would get him late rounds on cuts because Hatton bruises and cuts easily. It's been like that in his career. I didn't think it would be a blowout in the early rounds.

Now are you saying that the best Hatton would beat the best version of Pac?

[Gandalf]

There were even those rumours of Hatton getting busted up in training. What did I do? I ignored it. The enemy was bombing away over the bunker and there was Hitler saying "we shall resist and beat them yet". I put my head in the sand and I deserve to be called out on that fight. One can still revise ones opinion though, just as Blair might admit that he was wrong about WMD, I can say that I was wrong about that fight. I was wrong, hands up. But this is boxing, unless you back the favourite everytime, then you are going to fuck up in your predictions sometimes. It's a sport, man against man, it isn't a place where logic is always the deciding factor. You support a guy, you must get behind him. Though I don't do it anymore. That fight changed me.

Everyone fucks up their predictions. But give credit where it's due that's what I'm saying. Stop going with excuses. Now it's because Hatton had a bad training camp and was getting busted up that's why he lost? Hatton on his best night would still lose to Pac on his best. Why? Because the talent gap was enormous. Hatton may have lasted 2 or 3 more rounds, but he would never beat Pac. He just doesn't have it, whether it's handspeed, footspeed, chin, boxing ability, compared to Pac.

Now it's very easy to say that with hindsight too. I bet you weren't so sure of that at the time though, you probably hedged your views. Nobody expected what we saw that night. Nobody thought Hatton would get blown away that easily. It was a shocker, even Manny had no idea.

I actually thought Pac would get him late rounds on cuts because Hatton bruises and cuts easily. It's been like that in his career. I didn't think it would be a blowout in the early rounds.

Now are you saying that the best Hatton would beat the best version of Pac?

He would likely have done better, much better. The Hatton that walked through Kostya was more resistant and the Hatton prior to that was more skilled. Those things would likely have made it a tougher fight for Manny.

Hatton probably (see the hedging) wouldn't have won, but it's only now that we have all seen Pac settle into the weights that we realise that he can fight at the weights. He was an unknown quantity at 140. None of us knew if he had the chin or if he would carry the power. In that sense our views of Manny have been revising too. It is a perfectly natural thing to do.

[brocktonblockbust]

Lokk for a Hagler/Hearns for the 1st 2 rounds and a half. But the old man is gassed by the 5th.

[generalbulldog]

There were even those rumours of Hatton getting busted up in training. What did I do? I ignored it. The enemy was bombing away over the bunker and there was Hitler saying "we shall resist and beat them yet". I put my head in the sand and I deserve to be called out on that fight. One can still revise ones opinion though, just as Blair might admit that he was wrong about WMD, I can say that I was wrong about that fight. I was wrong, hands up. But this is boxing, unless you back the favourite everytime, then you are going to fuck up in your predictions sometimes. It's a sport, man against man, it isn't a place where logic is always the deciding factor. You support a guy, you must get behind him. Though I don't do it anymore. That fight changed me.

Everyone fucks up their predictions. But give credit where it's due that's what I'm saying. Stop going with excuses. Now it's because Hatton had a bad training camp and was getting busted up that's why he lost? Hatton on his best night would still lose to Pac on his best. Why? Because the talent gap was enormous. Hatton may have lasted 2 or 3 more rounds, but he would never beat Pac. He just doesn't have it, whether it's handspeed, footspeed, chin, boxing ability, compared to Pac.

Now it's very easy to say that with hindsight too. I bet you weren't so sure of that at the time though, you probably hedged your views. Nobody expected what we saw that night. Nobody thought Hatton would get blown away that easily. It was a shocker, even Manny had no idea.

I actually thought Pac would get him late rounds on cuts because Hatton bruises and cuts easily. It's been like that in his career. I didn't think it would be a blowout in the early rounds.

Now are you saying that the best Hatton would beat the best version of Pac?

He would likely have done better, much better. The Hatton that walked through Kostya was more resistant and the Hatton prior to that was more skilled. Those things would likely have made it a tougher fight for Manny.

Hatton probably (see the hedging) wouldn't have won, but it's only now that we have all seen Pac settle into the weights that we realise that he can fight at the weights. He was an unknown quantity at 140. None of us knew if he had the chin or if he would carry the power. In that sense our views of Manny have been revising too. It is a perfectly natural thing to do.

Of course Hatton would have done better. He may even win too if he had Dave Parris reffing that fight like when he fought Kostya.

[fan johnny]

I believe the only question saturday May 7th is not if Pacquaio wins, but whether or not he can KO or stop Mosley. Shane has a good chin, never been stopped and knows how to survive in the ring when he needs to, the question is, at 39, will he be able to take the battering he's going to get from Pacquiao? My guess is, the fight will either get stopped by the ref or Mosley's corner before the 9th round.

By the way, Shane is one of my favorite fighters, and I hate seeing this happen, just being realistic, I can't see Mosley going the distance.

Thoughts?

You know Margarito was really strong and had the stamina to last but didn't have the speed to catch Manny consistently. Mosley has the quickness to catch Manny consistently, the only doubt I have is can he pull the trigger and does he have the stamina in that 39 year old body?

I know it's the hype but from all the coverage on Manny, I believe he has prepared to go to war. I think like the date the 7th is when it happens.