Should Bin Laden have been taken alive?

[Gandalf]

You make a very good point for sure Miles, fully understood. I just feel that in this case a judicial process would have done more harm than good globally, I guess I have a pretty slippery foothold on that though. Also Pakistan is about as sovereign as Botswana these days by everything I've been reading. They are supposed to be an American ally, and were less cooperative than practically any neutral country would have been in dealing with this by all accounts. They have been receiving hundreds of millions of dollars every year from America and couldn't bring us a 6'6 arab on a dialysis machine living a mile away from their top Military academy. It just stinks really.

I think he should have been taken alive, but have a feeling I might be in the minority. I am curious to know what other people think really, so am going to let this thread run for a few pages and just be a casual observer for a bit.

I agree that it was quite amazing for him to be located where he was. It seems all the local residents were equally surprised. Must have been an eye opener to find out that Bin Laden had been living next door for several years. Either Pakistan really is that inept in terms of security or Bin Laden had help. You would have to assume the latter.

[p4pking]

You make a very good point for sure Miles, fully understood. I just feel that in this case a judicial process would have done more harm than good globally, I guess I have a pretty slippery foothold on that though. Also Pakistan is about as sovereign as Botswana these days by everything I've been reading. They are supposed to be an American ally, and were less cooperative than practically any neutral country would have been in dealing with this by all accounts. They have been receiving hundreds of millions of dollars every year from America and couldn't bring us a 6'6 arab on a dialysis machine living a mile away from their top Military academy. It just stinks really.

I think he should have been taken alive, but have a feeling I might be in the minority. I am curious to know what other people think really, so am going to let this thread run for a few pages and just be a casual observer for a bit.

I agree that it was quite amazing for him to be located where he was. It seems all the local residents were equally surprised. Must have been an eye opener to find out that Bin Laden had been living next door for several years. Either Pakistan really is that inept in terms of security or Bin Laden had help. You would have to assume the latter.

I was watching an interview on TV yesterday with some journalist who made the point that Pakistani police are VERY strict in dealing with foreigners. If you move there and build yourself a house, you can bet damn well that they will knock on your door to find out who you are, in his words. It's ridiculous to think that Pakistani officials didn't know in my opinion.

[Mark TKO]

i would have liked to have seen him taken alive and suffer in captivity for a bit - then tortured and killed by Michael Madsen on a live tv free ppv event sometime in September.

But alas this was not to be.

We will never know the truth of what happened in that 'firefight' but like fuck did he deserve a fair trial so lets not even go there.

And yes the Pakistan govt knew he was there for sure.

The body photos should be released though to silence the doubters. Stand him up by a tape meausre as he was about 6 foot 6 or something ridiculous wasnt he.

or stand him next to Vitali Klitschko

[Kev]

He wasn't killed at all. He's been dead 9 years.

The Bin Ladens are a wealthy family, in cahoots with the leading American familes and a part of the Carlye group. This is all factual, google it.

Osama died of kidney failure in 2002, too soo for the US who were using him as the face of fear and a pretext for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. So they did not report his death, and preferred to keep him alive.

These kind of lies are something they have a history of doing, and I invite you to look up the proven factual fabrications of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, where they faked an attack on the USS Maddox by the Vietnamese in order to get justification to go to war with them, and Operation Northwoods where they planned attacks on their own people, including shooting down planes, to blame on the Cubans. This went as high as the US Army's chief of staff, and was only ruled out by JFK, who it has to be said, was assassinated in suspicious circumstances, maybe for refusing to carry out the whims of those really in charge.

Already Obama has covered himself in case of future revelations by revealing he did not actually witness the assassination live on cam in the control room himself. They have no body because they threw it in the ocean. They took no photo's becauase he's too badly mutilated, therefore the only thing we have to go on is their word.

Sorry but after Vietnam, Northwoods, Pearl Harbour, Saddam's WMD's, their word doesn't mean a whole lot.

They were just waiting for the best timing to announce his death and now with revolutions going on all around the Arab world and a very different Middle East emerging, it made sense to get rid of the face of fear and end the post 911 era. They will create a new story for the Arab world in the coming months and years.

What about my thread sounds so absurd? All you have is you assured belief that America wouldn't act in this way, even though it has been proven and documented that they do. They have given no evidence whatsoever that Bin Laded was killed, or that he has been alive for the last 10 years.

He made one video in 2004, contradicting his earlier denials of being involved in 911 and that's all we've heard of him. They claim they have a new video now, I guess they need to create the illusion he was still active and a threat.

Open your minds people, and start looking into this.

[Gandalf]

Video: Protests in Pakistan follow Bin Laden's death - Asia, World - The Independent

It seems that some Pakistani's are not happy about what the US did and I think their arguments are perfectly valid. I mean where do you draw the line? Some US politicians were calling for Julian Assange to be assasinated just a few months ago. Going on the Osama precedent it would be quite acceptable for US forces to go to the UK, find Assange, and then shoot him dead.

That is unbelievable really. The President of the USA should not have the right to assasinate anyone, anywhere and at any time. It raises many serious questions and is an extremely slippery slope IMO.

[Andre]

He wasn't killed at all. He's been dead 9 years.

The Bin Ladens are a wealthy family, in cahoots with the leading American familes and a part of the Carlye group. This is all factual, google it.

Osama died of kidney failure in 2002, too soo for the US who were using him as the face of fear and a pretext for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. So they did not report his death, and preferred to keep him alive.

These kind of lies are something they have a history of doing, and I invite you to look up the proven factual fabrications of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, where they faked an attack on the USS Maddox by the Vietnamese in order to get justification to go to war with them, and Operation Northwoods where they planned attacks on their own people, including shooting down planes, to blame on the Cubans. This went as high as the US Army's chief of staff, and was only ruled out by JFK, who it has to be said, was assassinated in suspicious circumstances, maybe for refusing to carry out the whims of those really in charge.

Already Obama has covered himself in case of future revelations by revealing he did not actually witness the assassination live on cam in the control room himself. They have no body because they threw it in the ocean. They took no photo's becauase he's too badly mutilated, therefore the only thing we have to go on is their word.

Sorry but after Vietnam, Northwoods, Pearl Harbour, Saddam's WMD's, their word doesn't mean a whole lot.

They were just waiting for the best timing to announce his death and now with revolutions going on all around the Arab world and a very different Middle East emerging, it made sense to get rid of the face of fear and end the post 911 era. They will create a new story for the Arab world in the coming months and years.

What about my thread sounds so absurd? All you have is you assured belief that America wouldn't act in this way, even though it has been proven and documented that they do. They have given no evidence whatsoever that Bin Laded was killed, or that he has been alive for the last 10 years.

He made one video in 2004, contradicting his earlier denials of being involved in 911 and that's all we've heard of him. They claim they have a new video now, I guess they need to create the illusion he was still active and a threat.

Open your minds people, and start looking into this.

He was one of triplets now there's one left who will wreak havoc on us. Bin Laden.
Pedal Bin Laden and Recycle Bin Laden.

[p4pking]

He wasn't killed at all. He's been dead 9 years.

The Bin Ladens are a wealthy family, in cahoots with the leading American familes and a part of the Carlye group. This is all factual, google it.

Osama died of kidney failure in 2002, too soo for the US who were using him as the face of fear and a pretext for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. So they did not report his death, and preferred to keep him alive.

These kind of lies are something they have a history of doing, and I invite you to look up the proven factual fabrications of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, where they faked an attack on the USS Maddox by the Vietnamese in order to get justification to go to war with them, and Operation Northwoods where they planned attacks on their own people, including shooting down planes, to blame on the Cubans. This went as high as the US Army's chief of staff, and was only ruled out by JFK, who it has to be said, was assassinated in suspicious circumstances, maybe for refusing to carry out the whims of those really in charge.

Already Obama has covered himself in case of future revelations by revealing he did not actually witness the assassination live on cam in the control room himself. They have no body because they threw it in the ocean. They took no photo's becauase he's too badly mutilated, therefore the only thing we have to go on is their word.

Sorry but after Vietnam, Northwoods, Pearl Harbour, Saddam's WMD's, their word doesn't mean a whole lot.

They were just waiting for the best timing to announce his death and now with revolutions going on all around the Arab world and a very different Middle East emerging, it made sense to get rid of the face of fear and end the post 911 era. They will create a new story for the Arab world in the coming months and years.

What about my thread sounds so absurd? All you have is you assured belief that America wouldn't act in this way, even though it has been proven and documented that they do. They have given no evidence whatsoever that Bin Laded was killed, or that he has been alive for the last 10 years.

He made one video in 2004, contradicting his earlier denials of being involved in 911 and that's all we've heard of him. They claim they have a new video now, I guess they need to create the illusion he was still active and a threat.

Open your minds people, and start looking into this.

What I find absurd about that idea is that you mention the Carlyle group and Bin Ladens ties etc, and then fail to realize that George H and W BUSH are both members for crying out loud. If Osama had died in 2002, you don't think perhaps it would have been in the corporate interest, better timing to stage his death before the election in 2008? You're talking absolute nonsense in actuality. I'm referring strictly to the Bin Laden theory I should add though, you've got the Gulf of Tonkin and Northwoods, WMDS, etc. This just doesn't share ties.

[Kev]

He wasn't killed at all. He's been dead 9 years.

The Bin Ladens are a wealthy family, in cahoots with the leading American familes and a part of the Carlye group. This is all factual, google it.

Osama died of kidney failure in 2002, too soo for the US who were using him as the face of fear and a pretext for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. So they did not report his death, and preferred to keep him alive.

These kind of lies are something they have a history of doing, and I invite you to look up the proven factual fabrications of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, where they faked an attack on the USS Maddox by the Vietnamese in order to get justification to go to war with them, and Operation Northwoods where they planned attacks on their own people, including shooting down planes, to blame on the Cubans. This went as high as the US Army's chief of staff, and was only ruled out by JFK, who it has to be said, was assassinated in suspicious circumstances, maybe for refusing to carry out the whims of those really in charge.

Already Obama has covered himself in case of future revelations by revealing he did not actually witness the assassination live on cam in the control room himself. They have no body because they threw it in the ocean. They took no photo's becauase he's too badly mutilated, therefore the only thing we have to go on is their word.

Sorry but after Vietnam, Northwoods, Pearl Harbour, Saddam's WMD's, their word doesn't mean a whole lot.

They were just waiting for the best timing to announce his death and now with revolutions going on all around the Arab world and a very different Middle East emerging, it made sense to get rid of the face of fear and end the post 911 era. They will create a new story for the Arab world in the coming months and years.

What about my thread sounds so absurd? All you have is you assured belief that America wouldn't act in this way, even though it has been proven and documented that they do. They have given no evidence whatsoever that Bin Laded was killed, or that he has been alive for the last 10 years.

He made one video in 2004, contradicting his earlier denials of being involved in 911 and that's all we've heard of him. They claim they have a new video now, I guess they need to create the illusion he was still active and a threat.

Open your minds people, and start looking into this.

What I find absurd about that idea is that you mention the Carlyle group and Bin Ladens ties etc, and then fail to realize that George H and W BUSH are both members for crying out loud. If Osama had died in 2002, you don't think perhaps it would have been in the corporate interest, better timing to stage his death before the election in 2008? You're talking absolute nonsense in actuality. I'm referring strictly to the Bin Laden theory I should add though, you've got the Gulf of Tonkin and Northwoods, WMDS, etc. This just doesn't share ties.

The Bush family and Bin Ladens are friends, or at least business partners. The day after 911 when a no fly zone was enacted over the whole of the US the US government flew the Bin Laden family out of America in secrecy. Again, factual.

The whole Al Qadea threat was created by America as a pretext for war in Iraq and carrying out there vested interests in the middle east. They absolutely wanted Bin Laden alive as he was the face of that fear, makes no sense at all to stage his death before that.

[Kev]

Some good stuff here

Bin Laden Ties

[p4pking]

He wasn't killed at all. He's been dead 9 years.

The Bin Ladens are a wealthy family, in cahoots with the leading American familes and a part of the Carlye group. This is all factual, google it.

Osama died of kidney failure in 2002, too soo for the US who were using him as the face of fear and a pretext for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. So they did not report his death, and preferred to keep him alive.

These kind of lies are something they have a history of doing, and I invite you to look up the proven factual fabrications of the Gulf of Tonkin incident, where they faked an attack on the USS Maddox by the Vietnamese in order to get justification to go to war with them, and Operation Northwoods where they planned attacks on their own people, including shooting down planes, to blame on the Cubans. This went as high as the US Army's chief of staff, and was only ruled out by JFK, who it has to be said, was assassinated in suspicious circumstances, maybe for refusing to carry out the whims of those really in charge.

Already Obama has covered himself in case of future revelations by revealing he did not actually witness the assassination live on cam in the control room himself. They have no body because they threw it in the ocean. They took no photo's becauase he's too badly mutilated, therefore the only thing we have to go on is their word.

Sorry but after Vietnam, Northwoods, Pearl Harbour, Saddam's WMD's, their word doesn't mean a whole lot.

They were just waiting for the best timing to announce his death and now with revolutions going on all around the Arab world and a very different Middle East emerging, it made sense to get rid of the face of fear and end the post 911 era. They will create a new story for the Arab world in the coming months and years.

What about my thread sounds so absurd? All you have is you assured belief that America wouldn't act in this way, even though it has been proven and documented that they do. They have given no evidence whatsoever that Bin Laded was killed, or that he has been alive for the last 10 years.

He made one video in 2004, contradicting his earlier denials of being involved in 911 and that's all we've heard of him. They claim they have a new video now, I guess they need to create the illusion he was still active and a threat.

Open your minds people, and start looking into this.

What I find absurd about that idea is that you mention the Carlyle group and Bin Ladens ties etc, and then fail to realize that George H and W BUSH are both members for crying out loud. If Osama had died in 2002, you don't think perhaps it would have been in the corporate interest, better timing to stage his death before the election in 2008? You're talking absolute nonsense in actuality. I'm referring strictly to the Bin Laden theory I should add though, you've got the Gulf of Tonkin and Northwoods, WMDS, etc. This just doesn't share ties.

The Bush family and Bin Ladens are friends, or at least business partners. The day after 911 when a no fly zone was enacted over the whole of the US the US government flew the Bin Laden family out of America in secrecy. Again, factual.

The whole Al Qadea threat was created by America as a pretext for war in Iraq and carrying out there vested interests in the middle east. They absolutely wanted Bin Laden alive as he was the face of that fear, makes no sense at all to stage his death before that.

Bilbo, I am VERY aware of this, is was practically my entire point. Are you actually suggesting that if Osama Bin Laden had died during the Bush administration, there would have been a conspriracy to delay releasing this news, until after the Republicans LOST the presedential election? Like there was a vast conspiracy to first have Obama elected, and then let him take credit for it? There is no possible political motif for the timing of this if what you are saying is in fact true, unless you can of course explain to be why the Carlyle group would have been involved in a wider conspiracy to have the Democrats win the senate. But that would take some real doing wouldn't it, conspiracy theories are supposed to be nice and easy so those sitting at home all day can sound like they know everything.

[El Kabong]

Bilbo stop being a douchebag

And hell no why would we want Bin Laden alive? THAT would incite attacks and kidnappings etc with the crazy muslims wanting to free their zealot leader.

OBL got what he deserved...better than he deserved actually.

[Mark TKO]

THAT would incite attacks and kidnappings etc with the crazy muslims wanting to free their zealot leader.

very true. Could have been like Airforce One, Die Hard II , Toy Soldiers etc..


this outcome was for the best - though a short period in captivity and torture would have been better

[Mattyhitman]

In answer to the question: Yes.

Considering what happened to Saddam Hussien, I would of thought the same would have been done to OBL.

To show the world he had been captured and paraded on global television, then tried in court for his criminal activities would have been better imo.

Maybe the is some truth in what Bilbo is saying, who knows? and I guess we wont till the US divulges all the info regards to shooting.

Capture him, parade the capture, try him, then a public execution would have been the way I would have done it.

[porkypara]

I think in the morden world the law does not always seem to equel justice.

Bin Laden deserved to die in a horrible way and thats what he got IMO.It was justice

Also what benifit would it serve to keep him alive.All it would do is fan more extreamists when he would spout his hatred at his trail.

The SEAL team were give the nod and wink the same way the British SAS were when dealing with the IRA.Bring him in dead.

Job well done!

[Kev]

I think in the morden world the law does not always seem to equel justice.

Bin Laden deserved to die in a horrible way and thats what he got IMO.It was justice

Also what benifit would it serve to keep him alive.All it would do is fan more extreamists when he would spout his hatred at his trail.

The SEAL team were give the nod and wink the same way the British SAS were when dealing with the IRA.Bring him in dead.

Job well done!

Miles has a point though about Assange. Had the US dropped a killing squad into the mansion he was staying in and slaughtered a bunch of people there would have been an outcry.

Had the Pakistani's launched an attack on some enemy of their state on American soil they would now be facing two weeks of carpet bombing.

Also it makes the British look stupid. America send in their navy seals and kick ass, we sent our SAS into LIbya to help the rebels and they captured us and sent us packing tail between legs.