Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145

[Gandalf]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

[generalbulldog]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

First off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.

I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?

Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?

[Gandalf]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

First off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.

I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?

Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?

Oscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.

The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

[generalbulldog]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

First off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.

I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?

Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?

Oscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.

The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Actually no, the argument isn't consistent. You can't pick and choose who to give credit to on the catchweights to some and then discredit it for others.

Since I've been here the argument is this:

It was wrong for Pac to fight Oscar at 147. Whereas it was right for Oscar to fight 40 year old Hopkins at 156 for his MW title.

It was wrong for Pac to fight and get credit for Cotto at 145 (1 pound less than his last fight). Whereas it will be right for JMM to fight Pac at 144 (1 pound less than his last fight) and deserves all the credit if he wins.

You don't see the hypocrisy in this?

[ElTerribleMorales]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

First off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.

I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?

Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?

Oscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.

The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Actually no, the argument isn't consistent. You can't pick and choose who to give credit to on the catchweights to some and then discredit it for others.

Since I've been here the argument is this:

It was wrong for Pac to fight Oscar at 147. Whereas it was right for Oscar to fight 40 year old Hopkins at 156 for his MW title.

It was wrong for Pac to fight and get credit for Cotto at 145 (1 pound less than his last fight). Whereas it will be right for JMM to fight Pac at 144 (1 pound less than his last fight) and deserves all the credit if he wins.

You don't see the hypocrisy in this?

difference in DLH Vs. B-Hop is that Hopkins would already come in around that weight to begin with, he would never weigh 160 at a weigh in because he would walk around that weight when he didn't even have a fight scheduled, also that fight was how long ago and Hopkins should arguably be the Light-heavyweight champion of the world and oldest champion if he wouldn't have gotten robbed last time out, as for DLH had not fought at 147 for about 7 yrs and was pretty much shot to shit

[Julius Rain]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

First off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.

I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?

Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?

Oscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.

The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Actually no, the argument isn't consistent. You can't pick and choose who to give credit to on the catchweights to some and then discredit it for others.

Since I've been here the argument is this:

It was wrong for Pac to fight Oscar at 147. Whereas it was right for Oscar to fight 40 year old Hopkins at 156 for his MW title.

It was wrong for Pac to fight and get credit for Cotto at 145 (1 pound less than his last fight). Whereas it will be right for JMM to fight Pac at 144 (1 pound less than his last fight) and deserves all the credit if he wins.

You don't see the hypocrisy in this?

I do

[InTheNeutralCorner]

When I wrote my earlier post about finding no logical reason with regards to this fight happening due to Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez not belonging to the same weight division, I did not put into consideration their weight on fight night (Thanks IamInuit for giving me the idea).

Then I came across this information:
Though Marquez would have to go up to Welterweight (2 weight classses up) to challenge, Pacquiao would outweigh Marquez by no more than around 3 lbs on the night of the fight; Marquez rehydrated to 145 lbs vs. Katsidis, while Pacquiao rehydrated to 148 lbs vs. Margarito.
Does anyone know Manny's weight on fight night against Mosley?

If this information is true, then we have a fair fight. Marquez would just need to dehydrate 1 lb whereas Pacquiao needs to lose 4 lbs.
Wait a minute, it's Manny who is at a disadvantage.

[Gandalf]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

First off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.

I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?

Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?

Oscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.

The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Actually no, the argument isn't consistent. You can't pick and choose who to give credit to on the catchweights to some and then discredit it for others.

Since I've been here the argument is this:

It was wrong for Pac to fight Oscar at 147. Whereas it was right for Oscar to fight 40 year old Hopkins at 156 for his MW title.

It was wrong for Pac to fight and get credit for Cotto at 145 (1 pound less than his last fight). Whereas it will be right for JMM to fight Pac at 144 (1 pound less than his last fight) and deserves all the credit if he wins.

You don't see the hypocrisy in this?

The way I look at it, Oscar was wrong to insist on a CW trying to lure up the smaller guy. I don't blame Manny for that, he didn't really have any bargaining chips. But Oscar did give up those crucial pounds. By contrast with Manny in a similar situation now with Marquez, he is has all the bargaining chips, so is in the wrong. But to make it worse, he isn't willing to give more than a pound back to appease the fans who everyone knows will criticise the fight.

I believe it was wrong for the Cotto fight to be at a CW and said as much, but it was only a few pounds and so it wasn't a massive thing, significant but far less than what Manny/Marquez is. But I don't believe Cotto should have even conceded what he did as Manny had already proven he could fight at WW. I think it is Manny's best recent win, but the CW's only detract. Cotto could fight at WW, so could Manny, it should have been there.

The Oscar/Hops fight isn't something I agree with either. I hate CW's of this nature. Either Hops comes down or DLH goes up and just allows Hops to come in at what he wants. Still, like with Cotto/Pac it is still marginal and not huge which is what Pac/DLH and Pac/Marquez are.

[generalbulldog]

145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.

No it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.

Haha, 1 pound!

I would be totally amazed if he were to win.

Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.

Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.

So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.

144 is horrible really.

First off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.

I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?

Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?

Oscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.

The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Actually no, the argument isn't consistent. You can't pick and choose who to give credit to on the catchweights to some and then discredit it for others.

Since I've been here the argument is this:

It was wrong for Pac to fight Oscar at 147. Whereas it was right for Oscar to fight 40 year old Hopkins at 156 for his MW title.

It was wrong for Pac to fight and get credit for Cotto at 145 (1 pound less than his last fight). Whereas it will be right for JMM to fight Pac at 144 (1 pound less than his last fight) and deserves all the credit if he wins.

You don't see the hypocrisy in this?

The way I look at it, Oscar was wrong to insist on a CW trying to lure up the smaller guy. I don't blame Manny for that, he didn't really have any bargaining chips. But Oscar did give up those crucial pounds. By contrast with Manny in a similar situation now with Marquez, he is has all the bargaining chips, so is in the wrong. But to make it worse, he isn't willing to give more than a pound back to appease the fans who everyone knows will criticise the fight.

I believe it was wrong for the Cotto fight to be at a CW and said as much, but it was only a few pounds and so it wasn't a massive thing, significant but far less than what Manny/Marquez is. But I don't believe Cotto should have even conceded what he did as Manny had already proven he could fight at WW. I think it is Manny's best recent win, but the CW's only detract. Cotto could fight at WW, so could Manny, it should have been there.

The Oscar/Hops fight isn't something I agree with either. I hate CW's of this nature. Either Hops comes down or DLH goes up and just allows Hops to come in at what he wants. Still, like with Cotto/Pac it is still marginal and not huge which is what Pac/DLH and Pac/Marquez are.

Now this is consistent. If it's wrong for Pac to fight at catchweights so it is wrong for others. I don't believe in excusing fighters for the same behavior while demonizing others for it. At least you agreed with me and didn't attempt to excuse and praise Oscar for weight draining a 40 year old man for his lineal title.

[KananKrus]

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Miles, take a pause, are you "fully aware" that Marquez in his own stipulations was pursuing this fight with Pacquiao at a catchweight of 143lbs, right?

I guess then, the hell you are raising and the names you've disparaged along the way... was caused by the "mere" pound that was not granted in making this fight...

I don't know, a pound off of a targeted weight for a fight seem so minimal and inconsequential as to raise such a foul howl!

...some people can really be dramatic if they get their marshmallows afire.

Full text from The Examiner...
Marquez wants Manny Pacquiao to meet him at 143 pounds for 'Trilogy' fight - National Fight Sports | Examiner.com

[p4pking]

What are the rules regarding a minumum weight if they weren't officially fighting for a belt, anyone know? I just can't see any reason Marquez should put on one pound to fight Pacquiao, it does nothing for him whatsoever. I don't see him beating Pacquiao(again imo) at 140 or above as it is, but if Marquez in fact HAD to weigh 140? It puts him at a clear disadvantage. He had Manny's number and may still do, but Pacquiao has undoubtedly become a bigger stronger fighter since they met last, and Marquez is ancient for a featherweight. Id love to see another great fight between these two, and it indeed is as good a fight out there for Pacquiao barring Mayweather or Martinez. Would absolutely hate to see Marquez get stopped for the first time trying to fight a welterweight again though.

[miron_lang]

people are making this thing a complicated one where in fact its quite simple.


Manny Pacquiao was able to manhandle bigger fellas at Weltweweight not because he became a big dude himself. The heaviest he has weigh in a fight is 148lbs. He was able to destroy them big fellas because of his speed and power w/c he already have from the start. People (except Hatton) are being beaten up to 12 rounds while at the lower weights only the three Mexicans Morales, Marquez and Barrera have reached 12 rounds


Manny Pacquiao is not so much bigger than Marquez. only people w/c made up their mind to descredit Pacquiao thinks Pac is a lot bigger. Mosley towers over Pacquiao if you all didnt noticed.

--

Both JMM and PAC are 145 to 148 lbs fighters at fight night.

[p4pking]

people are making this thing a complicated one where in fact its quite simple.


Manny Pacquiao was able to manhandle bigger fellas at Weltweweight not because he became a big dude himself. The heaviest he has weigh in a fight is 148lbs. He was able to destroy them big fellas because of his speed and power w/c he already have from the start. People (except Hatton) are being beaten up to 12 rounds while at the lower weights only the three Mexicans Morales, Marquez and Barrera have reached 12 rounds


Manny Pacquiao is not so much bigger than Marquez. only people w/c made up their mind to descredit Pacquiao thinks Pac is a lot bigger. Mosley towers over Pacquiao if you all didnt noticed.

--

Both JMM and PAC are 145 to 148 lbs fighters at fight night.

Noone said Manny is beating guys his own size, or that he is much bigger than Marquez. The fact is that very few fighters in history have been able to RETAIN their speed and power while moving up several weight classes. Marquez has already shown that he can not, for instance. However since Pacquiao has actually beaten all of his willing adversaries in a higher weight class, the best fight for him is now against a man his own size in Marquez. I imagine most people simply feel it would be most impressive and make for the best fight, if he were to meet Marquez at a weight they are both comfortable and effective at.

[IamInuit]

What are the rules regarding a minumum weight if they weren't officially fighting for a belt, anyone know? I just can't see any reason Marquez should put on one pound to fight Pacquiao, it does nothing for him whatsoever. I don't see him beating Pacquiao(again imo) at 140 or above as it is, but if Marquez in fact HAD to weigh 140? It puts him at a clear disadvantage. He had Manny's number and may still do, but Pacquiao has undoubtedly become a bigger stronger fighter since they met last, and Marquez is ancient for a featherweight. Id love to see another great fight between these two, and it indeed is as good a fight out there for Pacquiao barring Mayweather or Martinez. Would absolutely hate to see Marquez get stopped for the first time trying to fight a welterweight again though.

Modern day 141. Armstrong's day it didn't matter. He won the welter crown when he weighed in at 135.Weight is one of the biggest cop outs in boxing. In a 17 division system it’s even more of a joke. This is an era where welter weights are fighting at lightweight and middle weights are fighting at welter. This absurd notion that Manny is some kind of giant against Marquez is just that. It’s actually borderline comical.

[Gandalf]

I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.

Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.

The argument is pretty consistent.

Miles, take a pause, are you "fully aware" that Marquez in his own stipulations was pursuing this fight with Pacquiao at a catchweight of 143lbs, right?

I guess then, the hell you are raising and the names you've disparaged along the way... was caused by the "mere" pound that was not granted in making this fight...

I don't know, a pound off of a targeted weight for a fight seem so minimal and inconsequential as to raise such a foul howl!

...some people can really be dramatic if they get their marshmallows afire.

Full text from The Examiner...
Marquez wants Manny Pacquiao to meet him at 143 pounds for 'Trilogy' fight - National Fight Sports | Examiner.com

I think he is barking mad. The man would sell his own leg to get another fight with Pacquiao, he has certainly sold his weight.

He knows more than I do, so I am just going to have to assume that he knows what he is doing, but I am extremely uneasy about this CW business. Manny has all the balls firmly in his court whilst Marquez simply has big balls.