If Martinez is the best fighter in the sport how about fighting Ward, Kessler, Froch,

[generalbulldog]

Now I can see the argument that since Pacquiao was not a fully developed man yet and started fighting at such a low weight and then rising through the weights may not be as impressive as a grown man. But what people here have not mentioned and that you did was that Pacquaio was fighting fully developed men as a growing teenager. Not only that but to win a lineal championship (the real title) in only his teenage years is massively impressive. Only 5 other boxers have done this in boxing history. I can only name Canzoneri and Benitez as the other 2, the other 3 just escapes my mind right now.

Here's the problem I have with that. People seem to assume that fighting in the amateurs is some delightful cakewalk where you fight 8 year old girls wearing pillows. In bouts you wear 10oz gloves just like the pros & anyone who boxes to international level will largely be up against full grown men, particularly from Cuba & the former Soviet states. People are trying to hurt you, there's a slightly different focus on scoring, but believe the punches still hurt. It's why I personally factor in amatuer achievements in how I rate someone. Most US boxers will not be teen champs simply for the fact the very best will almost certainly want to represent their country internationally. Not to mention that US boxers have to work about 5x as hard as any other country to win points at Olympics & have to deal with some shocking disruption tactics on the international amateur stage.

I'm not denying it's a tremendous achievement by Manny, but equally I don't think that guys who choose to represent their country in one of the biggest sporting spectacles in the world should have their positions ignored. That aside I agree with the points you & Marble are putting forward, it's ridiculous that he gets heat for not moving to 154 to challenge Martinez or that he's now catching shit for fighting Marquez. To me he's had 3 gimme fights in a row, but Marquez took him to hell so there's no way this is a gimme even if I heavily favour Pac to win (as I did in the Cotto fight, also no gimme).

I can't comment on the amateur level because I know next to nothing about it, so it's not my place.

I commented on that even though Pac was not a grown man and I understand that looking at it from other points of views it may not be impressive moving up the weights, but Pac was still fighting grown men as a developing teen and managed to become a lineal champ at 19, only Marbleheadedmaui brought that up and I agree with him. So in no way was I dissing Amateurs, but on the other hand I also commented that even though the lower weight divisions had more weight classes and separated by 3 or 4 pounds it's not some easy task fighting at one division to another like it's some cakewalk and a guy can just go through those weight divisions like a hot knife through butter. Ricardo Lopez fought at 105 and 108, if it was easy he would have won alphabet titles and lineal titles all the way up to say 118 right? I mean it's only 13 pounds going from 105 to 118! So why didn't he fight all way up to bantamweight? Because it's not easy and these little fighters are physically different than higher weight fighters like say a 140 pound fighter going to 147. But some guy here on the previous page and it wasn't you, made it sound easy and insignificant with "hey these lower weights are separated by 3 or 4 pounds only!" Just some funny stuff and guy commented that he was an amateur boxer with serious knowledge on the fight game, but yet he's dissing the lower weights and Pac's acheivements.

[JazMerkin]

I can't comment on the amateur level because I know next to nothing about it, so it's not my place.

I commented on that even though Pac was not a grown man and I understand that looking at it from other points of views it may not be impressive moving up the weights, but Pac was still fighting grown men as a developing teen and managed to become a lineal champ at 19, only Marbleheadedmaui brought that up and I agree with him. So in no way was I dissing Amateurs, but on the other hand I also commented that even though the lower weight divisions had more weight classes and separated by 3 or 4 pounds it's not some easy task fighting at one division to another like it's some cakewalk and a guy can just go through those weight divisions like a hot knife through butter. Ricardo Lopez fought at 105 and 108, if it was easy he would have won alphabet titles and lineal titles all the way up to say 118 right? I mean it's only 13 pounds going from 105 to 118! So why didn't he fight all way up to bantamweight? Because it's not easy and these little fighters are physically different than higher weight fighters like say a 140 pound fighter going to 147. But some guy here on the previous page and it wasn't you, made it sound easy and insignificant with "hey these lower weights are separated by 3 or 4 pounds only!" Just some funny stuff and guy commented that he was an amateur boxer with serious knowledge on the fight game, but yet he's dissing the lower weights and Pac's acheivements.

I see his point however, I don't think it was in context of someone like Lopez who was very small, more guys like Pacquiao & Donaire who are 'bigger' than those weights and growing through them. Obviously those limits are there for a reason because they represent percentages of body weight. Blegit in my experience knows a lot about the sport & although he hasn't said so, I believe he competed to a pretty high level as an amateur. I still agree winning a lineal title at just 19 (not to mention he's the only fighter in history with 4 of them) is a hell of an achievement & I think a lot of fans don't realize how good Sasakul was.

My point regarding the amateurs is that they would have been fighting grown men as teens. Any amateur will have to fight grown men & that's still what it is, a fight. It's another reason that many great prospects look to burn out early because there's plenty of wear & tear from the amateurs. A guy like Jerry Page is a perfect example of this.