Calzaghe's win over B-Hop looks better all the time.......

[marbleheadmaui]

Yep thats gotta be his best win, out of the 3-4 good fighters he's faced in 46 fights.

You're right Calzaghe should have played it like B-Hop, beat up blownup Welterweights to make a name for himself early in his career.

You can argue who won the fight, but that whiteboy didn't make it easy for B-Hop. THis whole B-Hop won 4 or 5 more rounds is ridiculous.

and Calzaghe made his name beating up on has beens (Jones and Eubank) pretenders (Sheika, Bika and Manfredo Jr), or given gift decisions (Hopkins and Reid), his only stand out non controversial wins that deserve any real praise are his wins against Kessler and Lacey

as always it works both ways

Yes it goes both ways homey. The same people shitting on JC, his resume, and fighting ability, mysteriously excuse Hopkins for everything else.

Here is one major difference. BHOP really did wreck the middles from 1994-2004 didn't he? Was there any obvious guy he didn't face? With JC at 168 the story just isn't the same.

So who are you suggesting Calzaghe should have fought at 168 during his tenure as division chief?

Ottke, Liles, Jones, Nunn, Echols off the top of my head. Look, the notion that you cleaned out a division when there is another unbeaten guy 300 miles away is sort of silly.

And before the excuse making starts? I don't care. One either fights the fights or one doesn't.

Otke wouldn't go near Calzaghe, Jones Jr was a LHW all the time Calzaghe was a SMW, likewise Nunn was a CW/LHW. The Echols fight could have come off, but he was pretty much done by the time he reached SMW.

You are looking for holes that don't exist. Calzaghe kept his division clean just as Hopkins did, it's just that Calzaghes biggest wins were not against LMW's moving up.

LOL and the excuses begin! Ottke and Calzaghe were in the same division for what? nearly a decade? Nunn was in the division for three years when Calzaghe was, BTW, Nunn was middleweight champ, Echols was ranked in the top five in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Liles was ranked in the top five in 1997-1998.

The comparisons aren't even close.

[Gandalf]

Yep thats gotta be his best win, out of the 3-4 good fighters he's faced in 46 fights.

You're right Calzaghe should have played it like B-Hop, beat up blownup Welterweights to make a name for himself early in his career.

You can argue who won the fight, but that whiteboy didn't make it easy for B-Hop. THis whole B-Hop won 4 or 5 more rounds is ridiculous.

and Calzaghe made his name beating up on has beens (Jones and Eubank) pretenders (Sheika, Bika and Manfredo Jr), or given gift decisions (Hopkins and Reid), his only stand out non controversial wins that deserve any real praise are his wins against Kessler and Lacey

as always it works both ways

Yes it goes both ways homey. The same people shitting on JC, his resume, and fighting ability, mysteriously excuse Hopkins for everything else.

Here is one major difference. BHOP really did wreck the middles from 1994-2004 didn't he? Was there any obvious guy he didn't face? With JC at 168 the story just isn't the same.

So who are you suggesting Calzaghe should have fought at 168 during his tenure as division chief?

Ottke, Liles, Jones, Nunn, Echols off the top of my head. Look, the notion that you cleaned out a division when there is another unbeaten guy 300 miles away is sort of silly.

And before the excuse making starts? I don't care. One either fights the fights or one doesn't.

Otke wouldn't go near Calzaghe, Jones Jr was a LHW all the time Calzaghe was a SMW, likewise Nunn was a CW/LHW. The Echols fight could have come off, but he was pretty much done by the time he reached SMW.

You are looking for holes that don't exist. Calzaghe kept his division clean just as Hopkins did, it's just that Calzaghes biggest wins were not against LMW's moving up.

LOL and the excuses begin! Ottke and Calzaghe were in the same division for what? nearly a decade? Nunn was in the division for three years when Calzaghe was, BTW, Nunn was middleweight champ, Echols was ranked in the top five in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Liles was ranked in the top five in 1997-1998.

The comparisons aren't even close.

So, you blame Calzaghe because one man doesn't want to fight? Do you realistically think a fighter like Ottke would even have a chance? Nunn was in the division whilst Calzaghe was a fledgling pro. How could they have fought? When Calzaghe was established Nunn was long gone. Echols had been stopped by Hopkins, was he now suddenly in line to face Calzaghe? Look at who Echols fought and beat in the years you mentioned, I really don't see why he would have been on the radar. Liles? Too long ago and clearly never one to remember.

The comparisons are close and it's a valid point that Hopkins two biggest wins were over smaller guys moving up from JMW. And let's not forget that the same pattern of calling out smaller men continued after beating Tarver. Wright and Pavlik were called up two divisions and Calzaghe himself was a man moving up for the first time.

[generalbulldog]

Again 1 of the few times I agree with Miles. People likes to shit all over JC's resume when B-Hops resume isn't all that sterling either. JC gets bashed for fighting old guys like RJJ and B-Hop, but B-Hop gets excused for beating up blownup Welterweights like Oscar and Tito or other smaller men like Pavlik, Wright, etc.

And now trying to use Sven Ottke as if the guy was some beast that JC avoided? That's like saying Pac and Mayweather are avoiding Jan Zaveck.

[Violent Demise]

Again 1 of the few times I agree with Miles. People likes to shit all over JC's resume when B-Hops resume isn't all that sterling either. JC gets bashed for fighting old guys like RJJ and B-Hop, but B-Hop gets excused for beating up blownup Welterweights like Oscar and Tito or other smaller men like Pavlik, Wright, etc.

And now trying to use Sven Ottke as if the guy was some beast that JC avoided? That's like saying Pac and Mayweather are avoiding Jan Zaveck.

Calzaghe once said Ottke wouldn't make it past 5 against him. Said Woodhall and Reid were tougher. One of the reasons Ottke-Calzaghe doesn't happen is cuz Calzaghe didn't want to fight in Germany. Said he didn't want to get robbed. Why is that even a concern? The man won't make it past 5 against you? All of a sudden your worried about the judges?

Side-note: Calzaghe would go into Germany a couple of years later for a meaningless rematch against Mario Veit. A fighter he had previously stopped in 1

[erics44]

Calzaghe once said Ottke wouldn't make it past 5 against him. Said Woodhall and Reid were tougher. One of the reasons Ottke-Calzaghe doesn't happen is cuz Calzaghe didn't want to fight in Germany. Said he didn't want to get robbed. Why is that even a concern? The man won't make it past 5 against you? All of a sudden your worried about the judges?

Side-note: Calzaghe would go into Germany a couple of years later for a meaningless rematch against Mario Veit. A fighter he had previously stopped in 1

are you saying ottke would have beaten calzaghi?

[Violent Demise]

Calzaghe once said Ottke wouldn't make it past 5 against him. Said Woodhall and Reid were tougher. One of the reasons Ottke-Calzaghe doesn't happen is cuz Calzaghe didn't want to fight in Germany. Said he didn't want to get robbed. Why is that even a concern? The man won't make it past 5 against you? All of a sudden your worried about the judges?

Side-note: Calzaghe would go into Germany a couple of years later for a meaningless rematch against Mario Veit. A fighter he had previously stopped in 1

are you saying ottke would have beaten calzaghi?

I think it would of been a 50-50 fight. I know the current public perception is to knock Ottke. But really most that do really only seen youtube clips of him. But the man was not a bad fighter. Anybody that thinks he gets blown out by Calzaghe really doesn't know the sport.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Calzaghe once said Ottke wouldn't make it past 5 against him. Said Woodhall and Reid were tougher. One of the reasons Ottke-Calzaghe doesn't happen is cuz Calzaghe didn't want to fight in Germany. Said he didn't want to get robbed. Why is that even a concern? The man won't make it past 5 against you? All of a sudden your worried about the judges?

Side-note: Calzaghe would go into Germany a couple of years later for a meaningless rematch against Mario Veit. A fighter he had previously stopped in 1

are you saying ottke would have beaten calzaghi?

I think it would of been a 50-50 fight. I know the current public perception is to knock Ottke. But really most that do really only seen youtube clips of him. But the man was not a bad fighter. Anybody that thinks he gets blown out by Calzaghe really doesn't know the sport.

Ottke was cute and crafty. It's easy to hate on him but he was effective.
Also, the 2nd Veit fight happened after supposedly Calzaghe was all out of options.

Lastly, whenever Joe speaks, it's always apparent that his logic isn't exactly linear. Much like his boxing style

[marbleheadmaui]

Yep thats gotta be his best win, out of the 3-4 good fighters he's faced in 46 fights.

You're right Calzaghe should have played it like B-Hop, beat up blownup Welterweights to make a name for himself early in his career.

You can argue who won the fight, but that whiteboy didn't make it easy for B-Hop. THis whole B-Hop won 4 or 5 more rounds is ridiculous.

and Calzaghe made his name beating up on has beens (Jones and Eubank) pretenders (Sheika, Bika and Manfredo Jr), or given gift decisions (Hopkins and Reid), his only stand out non controversial wins that deserve any real praise are his wins against Kessler and Lacey

as always it works both ways

Yes it goes both ways homey. The same people shitting on JC, his resume, and fighting ability, mysteriously excuse Hopkins for everything else.

Here is one major difference. BHOP really did wreck the middles from 1994-2004 didn't he? Was there any obvious guy he didn't face? With JC at 168 the story just isn't the same.

So who are you suggesting Calzaghe should have fought at 168 during his tenure as division chief?

Ottke, Liles, Jones, Nunn, Echols off the top of my head. Look, the notion that you cleaned out a division when there is another unbeaten guy 300 miles away is sort of silly.

And before the excuse making starts? I don't care. One either fights the fights or one doesn't.

Otke wouldn't go near Calzaghe, Jones Jr was a LHW all the time Calzaghe was a SMW, likewise Nunn was a CW/LHW. The Echols fight could have come off, but he was pretty much done by the time he reached SMW.

You are looking for holes that don't exist. Calzaghe kept his division clean just as Hopkins did, it's just that Calzaghes biggest wins were not against LMW's moving up.

LOL and the excuses begin! Ottke and Calzaghe were in the same division for what? nearly a decade? Nunn was in the division for three years when Calzaghe was, BTW, Nunn was middleweight champ, Echols was ranked in the top five in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Liles was ranked in the top five in 1997-1998.

The comparisons aren't even close.

So, you blame Calzaghe because one man doesn't want to fight? Do you realistically think a fighter like Ottke would even have a chance? Nunn was in the division whilst Calzaghe was a fledgling pro. How could they have fought? When Calzaghe was established Nunn was long gone. Echols had been stopped by Hopkins, was he now suddenly in line to face Calzaghe? Look at who Echols fought and beat in the years you mentioned, I really don't see why he would have been on the radar. Liles? Too long ago and clearly never one to remember.

The comparisons are close and it's a valid point that Hopkins two biggest wins were over smaller guys moving up from JMW. And let's not forget that the same pattern of calling out smaller men continued after beating Tarver. Wright and Pavlik were called up two divisions and Calzaghe himself was a man moving up for the first time.

I don't BLAME anybody for anything. Jones, Liles, Ottke, Nunn, Echols etc all have the gap of not facing Calzaghe on their resume as well. Do I think Ottke had a chance? I dunno. How about we ask Buster Douglas, Kirkland Laing, The Ragamuffin Man, Randy Turpin, Jorge Arce, Jimmy Braddock, Max Schmeling, Joe Walcott, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Vince Phillips, Hasim Rahman, Corrie Sanders and Carlos Baldomir for starters

When one guy wipes out a division so thoroughly one cannot come up with a single credible name they didn't fight and the other guy has five guys that can be named?

Those are NOT remotely the same thing.

[Gandalf]

Yep thats gotta be his best win, out of the 3-4 good fighters he's faced in 46 fights.

You're right Calzaghe should have played it like B-Hop, beat up blownup Welterweights to make a name for himself early in his career.

You can argue who won the fight, but that whiteboy didn't make it easy for B-Hop. THis whole B-Hop won 4 or 5 more rounds is ridiculous.

and Calzaghe made his name beating up on has beens (Jones and Eubank) pretenders (Sheika, Bika and Manfredo Jr), or given gift decisions (Hopkins and Reid), his only stand out non controversial wins that deserve any real praise are his wins against Kessler and Lacey

as always it works both ways

Yes it goes both ways homey. The same people shitting on JC, his resume, and fighting ability, mysteriously excuse Hopkins for everything else.

Here is one major difference. BHOP really did wreck the middles from 1994-2004 didn't he? Was there any obvious guy he didn't face? With JC at 168 the story just isn't the same.

So who are you suggesting Calzaghe should have fought at 168 during his tenure as division chief?

Ottke, Liles, Jones, Nunn, Echols off the top of my head. Look, the notion that you cleaned out a division when there is another unbeaten guy 300 miles away is sort of silly.

And before the excuse making starts? I don't care. One either fights the fights or one doesn't.

Otke wouldn't go near Calzaghe, Jones Jr was a LHW all the time Calzaghe was a SMW, likewise Nunn was a CW/LHW. The Echols fight could have come off, but he was pretty much done by the time he reached SMW.

You are looking for holes that don't exist. Calzaghe kept his division clean just as Hopkins did, it's just that Calzaghes biggest wins were not against LMW's moving up.

LOL and the excuses begin! Ottke and Calzaghe were in the same division for what? nearly a decade? Nunn was in the division for three years when Calzaghe was, BTW, Nunn was middleweight champ, Echols was ranked in the top five in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Liles was ranked in the top five in 1997-1998.

The comparisons aren't even close.

So, you blame Calzaghe because one man doesn't want to fight? Do you realistically think a fighter like Ottke would even have a chance? Nunn was in the division whilst Calzaghe was a fledgling pro. How could they have fought? When Calzaghe was established Nunn was long gone. Echols had been stopped by Hopkins, was he now suddenly in line to face Calzaghe? Look at who Echols fought and beat in the years you mentioned, I really don't see why he would have been on the radar. Liles? Too long ago and clearly never one to remember.

The comparisons are close and it's a valid point that Hopkins two biggest wins were over smaller guys moving up from JMW. And let's not forget that the same pattern of calling out smaller men continued after beating Tarver. Wright and Pavlik were called up two divisions and Calzaghe himself was a man moving up for the first time.

I don't BLAME anybody for anything. Jones, Liles, Ottke, Nunn, Echols etc all have the gap of not facing Calzaghe on their resume as well. When one guy wipes out a division so thoroughly one cannot come up with a single credible name they didn't fight and the other guy has five guys that can be named?

Those are NOT remotely the same thing.

Long time belt holder in a relatively weak division. Calzaghe + Hopkins = Similar tenure as long time kingpins of a weak division.

The only half way credible name you have managed to draw is Ottke and he wouldn't travel and only beat people in dodgy points decisions. The other fighters are either meaningless or else impossible. You are scratching around trying to downplay Calzaghe's time at SMW, but at the same time the same kinds of arguments can EASILY be made about Hopkins too.

Obviously Hopkins went out of his to duck James Toney and clearly avoided Mike McCallum. It's just silly.

[marbleheadmaui]

Yep thats gotta be his best win, out of the 3-4 good fighters he's faced in 46 fights.

You're right Calzaghe should have played it like B-Hop, beat up blownup Welterweights to make a name for himself early in his career.

You can argue who won the fight, but that whiteboy didn't make it easy for B-Hop. THis whole B-Hop won 4 or 5 more rounds is ridiculous.

and Calzaghe made his name beating up on has beens (Jones and Eubank) pretenders (Sheika, Bika and Manfredo Jr), or given gift decisions (Hopkins and Reid), his only stand out non controversial wins that deserve any real praise are his wins against Kessler and Lacey

as always it works both ways

Yes it goes both ways homey. The same people shitting on JC, his resume, and fighting ability, mysteriously excuse Hopkins for everything else.

Here is one major difference. BHOP really did wreck the middles from 1994-2004 didn't he? Was there any obvious guy he didn't face? With JC at 168 the story just isn't the same.

So who are you suggesting Calzaghe should have fought at 168 during his tenure as division chief?

Ottke, Liles, Jones, Nunn, Echols off the top of my head. Look, the notion that you cleaned out a division when there is another unbeaten guy 300 miles away is sort of silly.

And before the excuse making starts? I don't care. One either fights the fights or one doesn't.

Otke wouldn't go near Calzaghe, Jones Jr was a LHW all the time Calzaghe was a SMW, likewise Nunn was a CW/LHW. The Echols fight could have come off, but he was pretty much done by the time he reached SMW.

You are looking for holes that don't exist. Calzaghe kept his division clean just as Hopkins did, it's just that Calzaghes biggest wins were not against LMW's moving up.

LOL and the excuses begin! Ottke and Calzaghe were in the same division for what? nearly a decade? Nunn was in the division for three years when Calzaghe was, BTW, Nunn was middleweight champ, Echols was ranked in the top five in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Liles was ranked in the top five in 1997-1998.

The comparisons aren't even close.

So, you blame Calzaghe because one man doesn't want to fight? Do you realistically think a fighter like Ottke would even have a chance? Nunn was in the division whilst Calzaghe was a fledgling pro. How could they have fought? When Calzaghe was established Nunn was long gone. Echols had been stopped by Hopkins, was he now suddenly in line to face Calzaghe? Look at who Echols fought and beat in the years you mentioned, I really don't see why he would have been on the radar. Liles? Too long ago and clearly never one to remember.

The comparisons are close and it's a valid point that Hopkins two biggest wins were over smaller guys moving up from JMW. And let's not forget that the same pattern of calling out smaller men continued after beating Tarver. Wright and Pavlik were called up two divisions and Calzaghe himself was a man moving up for the first time.

I don't BLAME anybody for anything. Jones, Liles, Ottke, Nunn, Echols etc all have the gap of not facing Calzaghe on their resume as well. When one guy wipes out a division so thoroughly one cannot come up with a single credible name they didn't fight and the other guy has five guys that can be named?

Those are NOT remotely the same thing.

Long time belt holder in a relatively weak division. Calzaghe + Hopkins = Similar tenure as long time kingpins of a weak division.

The only half way credible name you have managed to draw is Ottke and he wouldn't travel and only beat people in dodgy points decisions. The other fighters are either meaningless or else impossible. You are scratching around trying to downplay Calzaghe's time at SMW, but at the same time the same kinds of arguments can EASILY be made about Hopkins too.

Obviously Hopkins went out of his to duck James Toney and clearly avoided Mike McCallum. It's just silly.

Yeah, Nunn (ranked in the division for three years while Calzaghe was there) a real reach, Liles (two years) a real reach, Ottke (a decade) a real reach, Echols (three years) a real reach.

Toney had gone to 168 by the end of 1992. McCallum moved up even before then.

Sheesh. Dance all you want, data is data.

[Gandalf]

Yep thats gotta be his best win, out of the 3-4 good fighters he's faced in 46 fights.

You're right Calzaghe should have played it like B-Hop, beat up blownup Welterweights to make a name for himself early in his career.

You can argue who won the fight, but that whiteboy didn't make it easy for B-Hop. THis whole B-Hop won 4 or 5 more rounds is ridiculous.

and Calzaghe made his name beating up on has beens (Jones and Eubank) pretenders (Sheika, Bika and Manfredo Jr), or given gift decisions (Hopkins and Reid), his only stand out non controversial wins that deserve any real praise are his wins against Kessler and Lacey

as always it works both ways

Yes it goes both ways homey. The same people shitting on JC, his resume, and fighting ability, mysteriously excuse Hopkins for everything else.

Here is one major difference. BHOP really did wreck the middles from 1994-2004 didn't he? Was there any obvious guy he didn't face? With JC at 168 the story just isn't the same.

So who are you suggesting Calzaghe should have fought at 168 during his tenure as division chief?

Ottke, Liles, Jones, Nunn, Echols off the top of my head. Look, the notion that you cleaned out a division when there is another unbeaten guy 300 miles away is sort of silly.

And before the excuse making starts? I don't care. One either fights the fights or one doesn't.

Otke wouldn't go near Calzaghe, Jones Jr was a LHW all the time Calzaghe was a SMW, likewise Nunn was a CW/LHW. The Echols fight could have come off, but he was pretty much done by the time he reached SMW.

You are looking for holes that don't exist. Calzaghe kept his division clean just as Hopkins did, it's just that Calzaghes biggest wins were not against LMW's moving up.

LOL and the excuses begin! Ottke and Calzaghe were in the same division for what? nearly a decade? Nunn was in the division for three years when Calzaghe was, BTW, Nunn was middleweight champ, Echols was ranked in the top five in 2002, 2003 and 2004. Liles was ranked in the top five in 1997-1998.

The comparisons aren't even close.

So, you blame Calzaghe because one man doesn't want to fight? Do you realistically think a fighter like Ottke would even have a chance? Nunn was in the division whilst Calzaghe was a fledgling pro. How could they have fought? When Calzaghe was established Nunn was long gone. Echols had been stopped by Hopkins, was he now suddenly in line to face Calzaghe? Look at who Echols fought and beat in the years you mentioned, I really don't see why he would have been on the radar. Liles? Too long ago and clearly never one to remember.

The comparisons are close and it's a valid point that Hopkins two biggest wins were over smaller guys moving up from JMW. And let's not forget that the same pattern of calling out smaller men continued after beating Tarver. Wright and Pavlik were called up two divisions and Calzaghe himself was a man moving up for the first time.

I don't BLAME anybody for anything. Jones, Liles, Ottke, Nunn, Echols etc all have the gap of not facing Calzaghe on their resume as well. When one guy wipes out a division so thoroughly one cannot come up with a single credible name they didn't fight and the other guy has five guys that can be named?

Those are NOT remotely the same thing.

Long time belt holder in a relatively weak division. Calzaghe + Hopkins = Similar tenure as long time kingpins of a weak division.

The only half way credible name you have managed to draw is Ottke and he wouldn't travel and only beat people in dodgy points decisions. The other fighters are either meaningless or else impossible. You are scratching around trying to downplay Calzaghe's time at SMW, but at the same time the same kinds of arguments can EASILY be made about Hopkins too.

Obviously Hopkins went out of his to duck James Toney and clearly avoided Mike McCallum. It's just silly.

Yeah, Nunn (ranked in the division for three years while Calzaghe was there) a real reach, Liles (two years) a real reach, Ottke (a decade) a real reach, Echols (three years) a real reach.

Toney had gone to 168 by the end of 1992. McCallum moved up even before then.

Sheesh. Dance all you want, data is data.

Haha, I was using those two examples as a way of mocking you. Nunn? Liles? Echols? That is la la land talk. As I say, impossible or else unknown. I have explained why and you just keep repeating their names. Take Nunn for instance, when was Calzaghe supposed to fight him? Nunn was gone from the division after Calzaghe's 5th pro fight!

Both of my suggestions were impossible ones to put your own extreme reaching into perspective. I give you Ottke though, it's a shame Calzaghe didn't beat on him.

[ICB]

Michael Nunn in his prime when he was beating up Frank Tate, Sumbu Kalambay, Juan Roldan, would of been a heck of a challenge for Joe Calzaghe. But when Joe Calzaghe was champion in 1997, Michael Nunn was on the downslide.

But he could of never of fought Joe Calzaghe anyway, he moved up in weight and his last fight at Super Middleweight. Was a razor thin close decision against John Scully.

The only way Joe Calzaghe could of fought better opposition, was either be born in a different era or he could of moved up.