Hopkins p4p ranking?

[Kev]

Bilbo - Was Pascal P4P when he DREW with the old boy? No. Was the old boy P4P? No. Were either P4P Saturday? No.

The Pavlik and Calzaghe fights were three years ago. Since then Hopkins has fought three guys NOT rated P4P - Ornales, virtually dead Roy and Carl Froch victim Pascal.

P4P is about current events. Just because you've got a free bus pass, it doesn't mean you can beat a decent fighter and dive into the top 3.

Jermain Taylor entered the top 10 P4P with his win over Hopkins. He was kicked out BEFORE he ever lost a fight.

P4P is nonsense. You're all currently favouring BHOP just because he's BHOP. Fact.

If its about current events why is Pascal a Carl Froch victim and not a Chad Dawson conquerer?

Martinez is better because he beat a Hopkins victim, a Quintana victim and drew with a Margarito victim? Is this your argument?

[Fenster]

Bilbo - Was Pascal P4P when he DREW with the old boy? No. Was the old boy P4P? No. Were either P4P Saturday? No.

The Pavlik and Calzaghe fights were three years ago. Since then Hopkins has fought three guys NOT rated P4P - Ornales, virtually dead Roy and Carl Froch victim Pascal.

P4P is about current events. Just because you've got a free bus pass, it doesn't mean you can beat a decent fighter and dive into the top 3.

Jermain Taylor entered the top 10 P4P with his win over Hopkins. He was kicked out BEFORE he ever lost a fight.

P4P is nonsense. You're all currently favouring BHOP just because he's BHOP. Fact.

If its about current events why is Pascal a Carl Froch victim and not a Chad Dawson conquerer?

Martinez is better because he beat a Hopkins victim, a Quintana victim and drew with a Margarito victim? Is this your argument?

Well I haven't even been arguing a case for Martinez but he is EASILY above Hopkins.

This is how the performances compare over their last 5 fights.

Martinez
Kermit Cintron - top ranked KO artist. Martinez wins KO 7.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez loses a MD (robbery).
Kelly Pavlik - Lineal 160 champ. Martinez wins by landslide UD.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez wins KO 2.
Sergiy Dzinziruk - unbeaten longtime WBO champ. Martinez wins KO 8.

Hopkins
Kelly Pavlik - 10lbs above prime weight. Hopkins wins UD.
Enrique Ornelas - Borderline journeyman. Hopkins wins UD.
Roy Jones Jr - Corpse. Hopkins wins UD.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins gets dropped twice. Draw.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins wins UD.

Martinez has not only faced by far the stronger opposition he is WINNING in a far more impressive fashion. Hopkins can't even stop dead men, journeymen and guys he's dragged WAY above their optimum weight. Martinez is DESTROYING P4P rated guys, unbeaten guys and deadly punchers.

Hopkins over Martinez? Laughable. Fact.

[Rantcatrat]

Bilbo - Was Pascal P4P when he DREW with the old boy? No. Was the old boy P4P? No. Were either P4P Saturday? No.

The Pavlik and Calzaghe fights were three years ago. Since then Hopkins has fought three guys NOT rated P4P - Ornales, virtually dead Roy and Carl Froch victim Pascal.

P4P is about current events. Just because you've got a free bus pass, it doesn't mean you can beat a decent fighter and dive into the top 3.

Jermain Taylor entered the top 10 P4P with his win over Hopkins. He was kicked out BEFORE he ever lost a fight.

P4P is nonsense. You're all currently favouring BHOP just because he's BHOP. Fact.

If its about current events why is Pascal a Carl Froch victim and not a Chad Dawson conquerer?

Martinez is better because he beat a Hopkins victim, a Quintana victim and drew with a Margarito victim? Is this your argument?

Well I haven't even been arguing a case for Martinez but he is EASILY above Hopkins.

This is how the performances compare over their last 5 fights.

Martinez
Kermit Cintron - top ranked KO artist. Martinez wins KO 7.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez loses a MD (robbery).
Kelly Pavlik - Lineal 160 champ. Martinez wins by landslide UD.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez wins KO 2.
Sergiy Dzinziruk - unbeaten longtime WBO champ. Martinez wins KO 8.

Hopkins
Kelly Pavlik - 10lbs above prime weight. Hopkins wins UD.
Enrique Ornelas - Borderline journeyman. Hopkins wins UD.
Roy Jones Jr - Corpse. Hopkins wins UD.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins gets dropped twice. Draw.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins wins UD.

Martinez has not only faced by far the stronger opposition he is WINNING in a far more impressive fashion. Hopkins can't even stop dead men, journeymen and guys he's dragged WAY above their optimum weight. Martinez is DESTROYING P4P rated guys, unbeaten guys and deadly punchers.

Hopkins over Martinez? Laughable. Fact.

[killersheep]

Bilbo - Was Pascal P4P when he DREW with the old boy? No. Was the old boy P4P? No. Were either P4P Saturday? No.

The Pavlik and Calzaghe fights were three years ago. Since then Hopkins has fought three guys NOT rated P4P - Ornales, virtually dead Roy and Carl Froch victim Pascal.

P4P is about current events. Just because you've got a free bus pass, it doesn't mean you can beat a decent fighter and dive into the top 3.

Jermain Taylor entered the top 10 P4P with his win over Hopkins. He was kicked out BEFORE he ever lost a fight.

P4P is nonsense. You're all currently favouring BHOP just because he's BHOP. Fact.

If its about current events why is Pascal a Carl Froch victim and not a Chad Dawson conquerer?

Martinez is better because he beat a Hopkins victim, a Quintana victim and drew with a Margarito victim? Is this your argument?

Well I haven't even been arguing a case for Martinez but he is EASILY above Hopkins.

This is how the performances compare over their last 5 fights.

Martinez
Kermit Cintron - top ranked KO artist. Martinez wins KO 7.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez loses a MD (robbery).
Kelly Pavlik - Lineal 160 champ. Martinez wins by landslide UD.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez wins KO 2.
Sergiy Dzinziruk - unbeaten longtime WBO champ. Martinez wins KO 8.

Hopkins
Kelly Pavlik - 10lbs above prime weight. Hopkins wins UD.
Enrique Ornelas - Borderline journeyman. Hopkins wins UD.
Roy Jones Jr - Corpse. Hopkins wins UD.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins gets dropped twice. Draw.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins wins UD.

Martinez has not only faced by far the stronger opposition he is WINNING in a far more impressive fashion. Hopkins can't even stop dead men, journeymen and guys he's dragged WAY above their optimum weight. Martinez is DESTROYING P4P rated guys, unbeaten guys and deadly punchers.

Hopkins over Martinez? Laughable. Fact.

I remember them mentioning in Dzinziruk fight, that he had never been knocked down before.

[Fenster]

Bilbo - Was Pascal P4P when he DREW with the old boy? No. Was the old boy P4P? No. Were either P4P Saturday? No.

The Pavlik and Calzaghe fights were three years ago. Since then Hopkins has fought three guys NOT rated P4P - Ornales, virtually dead Roy and Carl Froch victim Pascal.

P4P is about current events. Just because you've got a free bus pass, it doesn't mean you can beat a decent fighter and dive into the top 3.

Jermain Taylor entered the top 10 P4P with his win over Hopkins. He was kicked out BEFORE he ever lost a fight.

P4P is nonsense. You're all currently favouring BHOP just because he's BHOP. Fact.

If its about current events why is Pascal a Carl Froch victim and not a Chad Dawson conquerer?

Martinez is better because he beat a Hopkins victim, a Quintana victim and drew with a Margarito victim? Is this your argument?

Well I haven't even been arguing a case for Martinez but he is EASILY above Hopkins.

This is how the performances compare over their last 5 fights.

Martinez
Kermit Cintron - top ranked KO artist. Martinez wins KO 7.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez loses a MD (robbery).
Kelly Pavlik - Lineal 160 champ. Martinez wins by landslide UD.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez wins KO 2.
Sergiy Dzinziruk - unbeaten longtime WBO champ. Martinez wins KO 8.

Hopkins
Kelly Pavlik - 10lbs above prime weight. Hopkins wins UD.
Enrique Ornelas - Borderline journeyman. Hopkins wins UD.
Roy Jones Jr - Corpse. Hopkins wins UD.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins gets dropped twice. Draw.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins wins UD.

Martinez has not only faced by far the stronger opposition he is WINNING in a far more impressive fashion. Hopkins can't even stop dead men, journeymen and guys he's dragged WAY above their optimum weight. Martinez is DESTROYING P4P rated guys, unbeaten guys and deadly punchers.

Hopkins over Martinez? Laughable. Fact.

I remember them mentioning in Dzinziruk fight, that he had never been knocked down before.

Even more impressive then.

[Kev]

Bilbo - Was Pascal P4P when he DREW with the old boy? No. Was the old boy P4P? No. Were either P4P Saturday? No.

The Pavlik and Calzaghe fights were three years ago. Since then Hopkins has fought three guys NOT rated P4P - Ornales, virtually dead Roy and Carl Froch victim Pascal.

P4P is about current events. Just because you've got a free bus pass, it doesn't mean you can beat a decent fighter and dive into the top 3.

Jermain Taylor entered the top 10 P4P with his win over Hopkins. He was kicked out BEFORE he ever lost a fight.

P4P is nonsense. You're all currently favouring BHOP just because he's BHOP. Fact.

If its about current events why is Pascal a Carl Froch victim and not a Chad Dawson conquerer?

Martinez is better because he beat a Hopkins victim, a Quintana victim and drew with a Margarito victim? Is this your argument?

Well I haven't even been arguing a case for Martinez but he is EASILY above Hopkins.

This is how the performances compare over their last 5 fights.

Martinez
Kermit Cintron - top ranked KO artist. Martinez wins KO 7.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez loses a MD (robbery).
Kelly Pavlik - Lineal 160 champ. Martinez wins by landslide UD.
Paul Williams - P4P rated. Martinez wins KO 2.
Sergiy Dzinziruk - unbeaten longtime WBO champ. Martinez wins KO 8.

Hopkins
Kelly Pavlik - 10lbs above prime weight. Hopkins wins UD.
Enrique Ornelas - Borderline journeyman. Hopkins wins UD.
Roy Jones Jr - Corpse. Hopkins wins UD.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins gets dropped twice. Draw.
Jean Pascal - Hopkins wins UD.

Martinez has not only faced by far the stronger opposition he is WINNING in a far more impressive fashion. Hopkins can't even stop dead men, journeymen and guys he's dragged WAY above their optimum weight. Martinez is DESTROYING P4P rated guys, unbeaten guys and deadly punchers.

Hopkins over Martinez? Laughable. Fact.

Haha so now we're changing official results to back up our arguments eh. Boxrec tells me Cintron D12, sorry about that.

As for the first Williams fight being a robbery, again your just having to exaggerate to make a case. I can do that too, Hopkins Calzaghe loss = robbery, Pascal draw = robbery.

As for your other points. Pavlik 10lbs above prime weight? Really? Tell me what weighed in his last fight then? I think it was 170. Although I guess that only became his prime weight after Martine beat him and somehow after that he became a 10 lb heavier man. Thyroid problem perhaps...

As for dragging people up beyond their weight, how what was dziniruks rating as a middleweight? Oh I forget, he hadnt ever fought there, being a career light middle. This was different to when Hopkins drags guys up though because you have to right I guess.

So to summise. Martinez drew with a Margarito ko victim. He beat Pavlik coming off a lopsided loss to Hopkins. He knocked out Paul Williams (a Quintana victim) but also was beat in their first fight, and he defended his title against a completely unknown 154lb champ who for some reason is regarded as some kind of yardstick for p4p greatness.

Martinez has a grwat win over Williams to go with a defeat, and a decent win over an alcholic Pavlik who had been mentally destroyed by Hopkins.

Beating Tarver, Pavlik and Pascal is simply better than Williams, Pavlik and Dzinziruk imo.

I hope Martinex mans up and fights Hopkins at 170. That would be a great catchweight limit, an d then pops can show you how an all time legend performs against Martinez? hands down, I dont need to defend style...

[Fenster]

Haha so now we're changing official results to back up our arguments eh. Boxrec tells me Cintron D12, sorry about that.

As for the first Williams fight being a robbery, again your just having to exaggerate to make a case. I can do that too, Hopkins Calzaghe loss = robbery, Pascal draw = robbery.

As for your other points. Pavlik 10lbs above prime weight? Really? Tell me what weighed in his last fight then? I think it was 170. Although I guess that only became his prime weight after Martine beat him and somehow after that he became a 10 lb heavier man. Thyroid problem perhaps...

As for dragging people up beyond their weight, how what was dziniruks rating as a middleweight? Oh I forget, he hadnt ever fought there, being a career light middle. This was different to when Hopkins drags guys up though because you have to right I guess.

So to summise. Martinez drew with a Margarito ko victim. He beat Pavlik coming off a lopsided loss to Hopkins. He knocked out Paul Williams (a Quintana victim) but also was beat in their first fight, and he defended his title against a completely unknown 154lb champ who for some reason is regarded as some kind of yardstick for p4p greatness.

Martinez has a grwat win over Williams to go with a defeat, and a decent win over an alcholic Pavlik who had been mentally destroyed by Hopkins.

Beating Tarver, Pavlik and Pascal is simply better than Williams, Pavlik and Dzinziruk imo.

I hope Martinex mans up and fights Hopkins at 170. That would be a great catchweight limit, an d then pops can show you how an all time legend performs against Martinez? hands down, I dont need to defend style...

You've just proved my point. To make a case for Hopkins you need to delve back into his history. You need Tarver, Calzaghe, Winky. Because his last 5 fights, which spans a 2 1/2 year period, is clearly not half as impressive as Martinez.

The majority had Martinez winning the first Williams fight, however, there is no shame in losing a razor close PTS decision to a P4P rated fighter. Especially when you emphatically DESTROY the same opponent in the rematch.

As for Cintron - there's not a person on earth that doesn't think Martinez was ROBBED not once but TWICE!!! He wins by KO when the ref counts Cintron out, then wins a clear UD, even with a ridiculous point deduction in the 12th round, yet ends up with a draw. Unbelievable.

Pavlik? You are not seriously suggesting Pavlik's best weight has not been 160, right? The weight where he became lineal champ. The weight that he'd never LOST in until meeting Martinez. The weight he IMMEDIATELY moved backdown to after the Hopkins fight. A fight in which Hopkins weighed 185lbs on the night to Pavliks 176 wearing a tracksuit and trainers. Clearly Pavlik wasn't ready for that weight jump.

With hindsight, Hopkins win over Pavlik isn't as impressive as Martinez because his "old" age was clearly not as big a factor as originally thought.

Dzinziruk? He put on 4lb to challenge the lineal middleweight champion. Both weighing 158. No it's not a "great" win. However, knocking out an unbeaten, never been floored, long standing "world" champion is far more impressive than scoring a PTS win over an ancient shot-to-shit fighter coming off a FIRST round KO loss and a borderline journeyman that has failed everytime he's stepped up.

So to summise - Martinez currently owns Hopkins. Fact.

[HattonTheHammer]

Haha so now we're changing official results to back up our arguments eh. Boxrec tells me Cintron D12, sorry about that.

As for the first Williams fight being a robbery, again your just having to exaggerate to make a case. I can do that too, Hopkins Calzaghe loss = robbery, Pascal draw = robbery.

As for your other points. Pavlik 10lbs above prime weight? Really? Tell me what weighed in his last fight then? I think it was 170. Although I guess that only became his prime weight after Martine beat him and somehow after that he became a 10 lb heavier man. Thyroid problem perhaps...

As for dragging people up beyond their weight, how what was dziniruks rating as a middleweight? Oh I forget, he hadnt ever fought there, being a career light middle. This was different to when Hopkins drags guys up though because you have to right I guess.

So to summise. Martinez drew with a Margarito ko victim. He beat Pavlik coming off a lopsided loss to Hopkins. He knocked out Paul Williams (a Quintana victim) but also was beat in their first fight, and he defended his title against a completely unknown 154lb champ who for some reason is regarded as some kind of yardstick for p4p greatness.

Martinez has a grwat win over Williams to go with a defeat, and a decent win over an alcholic Pavlik who had been mentally destroyed by Hopkins.

Beating Tarver, Pavlik and Pascal is simply better than Williams, Pavlik and Dzinziruk imo.

I hope Martinex mans up and fights Hopkins at 170. That would be a great catchweight limit, an d then pops can show you how an all time legend performs against Martinez? hands down, I dont need to defend style...

You've just proved my point. To make a case for Hopkins you need to delve back into his history. You need Tarver, Calzaghe, Winky. Because his last 5 fights, which spans a 2 1/2 year period, is clearly not half as impressive as Martinez.

The majority had Martinez winning the first Williams fight, however, there is no shame in losing a razor close PTS decision to a P4P rated fighter. Especially when you emphatically DESTROY the same opponent in the rematch.

As for Cintron - there's not a person on earth that doesn't think Martinez was ROBBED not once but TWICE!!! He wins by KO when the ref counts Cintron out, then wins a clear UD, even with a ridiculous point deduction in the 12th round, yet ends up with a draw. Unbelievable.

Pavlik? You are not seriously suggesting Pavlik's best weight has not been 160, right? The weight where he became lineal champ. The weight that he'd never LOST in until meeting Martinez. The weight he IMMEDIATELY moved backdown to after the Hopkins fight. A fight in which Hopkins weighed 185lbs on fight night to Pavliks 176 wearing a tracksuit and trainers. Clearly Pavlik wasn't ready for that weight jump.

With hindsight, Hopkins win over Pavlik isn't as impressive as Martinez because his "old" age was clearly not as big a factor as originally thought.

Dzinziruk? He put on 4lb to challenge the lineal middleweight champion. Both weighing 158. No it's not a "great" win? However, knocking out an unbeaten, never been floored, long standing "world" champion is far more impressive than scoring a PTS win over an ancient shot-to-shit fighter coming off a FIRST round KO loss and a borderline journeyman that has failed everytime he's stepped up.

So to summise - Martinez currently owns Hopkins. Fact.

that would be a superfight if ever i saw one

I honestly can just see hopkins schooling bad chad and showing him how a real legend gets his business done before calling it a day

[Fenster]

By the way Bilbo - just because you've only recently discovered Martinez doesn't mean everyone else just has.

About ten years ago Martinez was fighting live on Sky Sports duffing up Richard Williams and Adrian Stone. It was clear from then he was a potential world champion. Having a loss to a future "world" champion and P4P fighter in Margarito is no shame either. Martinez is Argentinian, so has no western fanbase and therefore has spent his career travelling to seek the best opportunites. Finally he has got the recognition he deserves.

[badr_hari]

Martinez currently owns Hopkins. Fact.

And Pacquiao owns Klitschko. Right? Are you happy now?
That's why P4P is bullshit and means NOTHING. It is the only (and fantasy) way to rank Martinez, Pacquiao and other manikins above the undisputed world light heavyweight champion.

[miron_lang]

Martinez currently owns Hopkins. Fact.

And Pacquiao owns Klitschko. Right? Are you happy now?
That's why P4P is bullshit and means NOTHING. It is the only (and fantasy) way to rank Martinez, Pacquiao and other manikins above the undisputed world light heavyweight champion.

They are debating on who has the better resume 'lately' to some forum members that is what pound for pound is. some make it last five fights some last so and so fights. but originally pound for pound is about who will own who if they are the same size.

Martinez and Hopkins are 2 divisions apart 160 and 175. Hopkins is clearly bigger but their size is quite similar.

They can settle this in the ring actually maybe at 168. Winner faces Bute.

[badr_hari]

originally pound for pound is about who will own who if they are the same size.

Martinez and Hopkins are 2 divisions apart 160 and 175. Hopkins is clearly bigger but their size is quite similar.

They can settle this in the ring actually maybe at 168. Winner faces Bute.

Well if the part in bold means P4P, than it makes sense, since we can talk about pure skills, not about what they have accomplished. Size advantage aside, Hopkins outclasses Martinez almost in every skill element, so its not like Martinez can be put above him even with this criteria.