Our Aging Sport

[Snakey]

Well I think with all the titles out there and its harder and harder to unify....I just think it takes longer for the bigger fights to happen.

Yeah but that has nothing to do with any of the number inputs does it? I mean do you think there are young guys who belong in the p4p top ten who can't get the right fights?

Well protecting the 0 has become THE issue in boxing....nobody (with the exception of guys that have already lost) is willing to take a risk these days.

TRUTH!

Makes for really mediocre fighters. I couldn't care less about unbeaten fighters. I care about great ones.

But dont you think we have kind of created this mindset. We are so critical these days when a fighter loses to someone that its gotta have an effect on the mindset of the fighter.

[marbleheadmaui]

Well I think with all the titles out there and its harder and harder to unify....I just think it takes longer for the bigger fights to happen.

Yeah but that has nothing to do with any of the number inputs does it? I mean do you think there are young guys who belong in the p4p top ten who can't get the right fights?

Well protecting the 0 has become THE issue in boxing....nobody (with the exception of guys that have already lost) is willing to take a risk these days.

TRUTH!

Makes for really mediocre fighters. I couldn't care less about unbeaten fighters. I care about great ones.

But dont you think we have kind of created this mindset. We are so critical these days when a fighter loses to someone that its gotta have an effect on the mindset of the fighter.

Do I think undereducated (defined as those who disagree with me in this matter)fans are at the core of boxing's issues? I do. Every time someone calls a strapholder a champion, a guy who loses "damaged goods" or argues an unbeaten record equals greatness an unscrupulous promoter calls up a sanctioning body head and crows "I told you these guys were that stupid! Now I gotta find an out of work 135 pound pipefitter to take on my latest 15-0 Cuban defector!"

I do think the tournaments at 168 and at 118 have stemmed the tide a little in that perhaps people now realize occasional losses to other top guys aren't all that meaningful.

[killersheep]

Well I think with all the titles out there and its harder and harder to unify....I just think it takes longer for the bigger fights to happen.

Yeah but that has nothing to do with any of the number inputs does it? I mean do you think there are young guys who belong in the p4p top ten who can't get the right fights?

Well protecting the 0 has become THE issue in boxing....nobody (with the exception of guys that have already lost) is willing to take a risk these days.

TRUTH!

Makes for really mediocre fighters. I couldn't care less about unbeaten fighters. I care about great ones.

But dont you think we have kind of created this mindset. We are so critical these days when a fighter loses to someone that its gotta have an effect on the mindset of the fighter.

Do I think undereducated (defined as those who disagree with me in this matter)fans are at the core of boxing's issues? I do. Every time someone calls a strapholder a champion, a guy who loses "damaged goods" or argues an unbeaten record equals greatness an unscrupulous promoter calls up a sanctioning body head and crows "I told you these guys were that stupid! Now I gotta find an out of work 135 pound pipefitter to take on my latest 15-0 Cuban defector!"

I do think the tournaments at 168 and at 118 have stemmed the tide a little in that perhaps people now realize occasional losses to other top guys aren't all that meaningful.

I would like to see tournaments at all weight classes, like the 118 one mind you a simple single elimination bracket with each sanctioning body having a representative. Of course the WBA would have to have some kind of tourney on their own. I think bringing the clarity back of having real champs would be a great first step into making the sport back into something the public can understand. Hell even my wife see's through the "but this is a championship fight" case I set forth "They are all title fights" she says, and I can't argue with that.

As too the aging thing, it just seems like it's kind of following the trendline. People that are older are doing more in general and maintaining a peak level longer. Although there is certainly some truth to a lack of dominant talent in the younger guys, a lot of that ties to two things IMO.

1. The amateur system has nothing to do with the pro system, in the old days if a fighter went the am route they could have hundreds of fights that emulated a pro fight, now with the point system a whole different emphasis that doesn't translate into the pros is used. Therefore, we have a system of protection in place that gives young fighters time to relearn their craft.

2. Fighters for the most part are just not as active, as you get into the elite of Cruisers and Heavies a lot of these guys will only fight once a year. IMO if a fighter is capable of it they should be in the ring at least once every 3 months.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I'm sure there are a ton of tv friendly fighters out there who just don't get the exposure that would credit the sport.

[marbleheadmaui]

I'm sure there are a ton of tv friendly fighters out there who just don't get the exposure that would credit the sport.

Maybe but so what? That doesn't explain the aging at the top of the game does it?

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I'm sure there are a ton of tv friendly fighters out there who just don't get the exposure that would credit the sport.

Maybe but so what? That doesn't explain the aging at the top of the game does it?

Easy tiger.

I guess my post was kinda in conjunction with what Lyle touched on earlier with regards to Fighters/ promoters protecting that '0'...

The networks put to much value on these young fighters with unbeaten records which to me, is a extremely toxic corporate virtue. We know this has had an affect on the casual viewer over recent years; they see this young over-hyped unbeaten guy loose to an unheralded fighter and then all interest is lost and so then the Network are in pursuit of the next Young Network Idol... Which basically to me looks like a downward spiral. Because ultimately, it's TV that governs Boxing.

I also don't like how P4P gets used, like a glorified popularity contest to market the top fighters of the sport. Fighters, fans and networks all pervert the true essence of 'Pound for Pound' to use it almost as a league table, like the Premier League. For example, Floyd Mayweather's fight against Manuel Marquez (Numero Uno) was the biggest perversion of the essence of 'Pound for Pound' from a fighters perspective.

So anyway, I guess the way I see it, the younger fighters aren't really getting the fights they, as fighters need and boxing is suffering because these younger fighters are too overprotected. Also the old guys are hanging tough because they have had proper careers ie tough breaks, hard knocks and they really know how to fight. They are showing true skills while basking in what maybe the only the spoils of a long hard career... Significance.

Andre Ward has had a handful of significant wins in a short amount of time and is currently displaying some of the finest skills boxing has to offer, yet 90% of fans wont have him in their top 5 because they are probably waiting for him to win some more fights... Which is madness. The skills are their now just as they will be when he's 35.

[marbleheadmaui]

I'm sure there are a ton of tv friendly fighters out there who just don't get the exposure that would credit the sport.

Maybe but so what? That doesn't explain the aging at the top of the game does it?

Easy tiger.

I guess my post was kinda in conjunction with what Lyle touched on earlier with regards to Fighters/ promoters protecting that '0'...

The networks put to much value on these young fighters with unbeaten records which to me, is a extremely toxic corporate virtue. We know this has had an affect on the casual viewer over recent years; they see this young over-hyped unbeaten guy loose to an unheralded fighter and then all interest is lost and so then the Network are in pursuit of the next Young Network Idol... Which basically to me looks like a downward spiral. Because ultimately, it's TV that governs Boxing.

I also don't like how P4P gets used, like a glorified popularity contest to market the top fighters of the sport. Fighters, fans and networks all pervert the true essence of 'Pound for Pound' to use it almost as a league table, like the Premier League. For example, Floyd Mayweather's fight against Manuel Marquez (Numero Uno) was the biggest perversion of the essence of 'Pound for Pound' from a fighters perspective.

So anyway, I guess the way I see it, the younger fighters aren't really getting the fights they, as fighters need and boxing is suffering because these younger fighters are too overprotected. Also the old guys are hanging tough because they have had proper careers ie tough breaks, hard knocks and they really know how to fight. They are showing true skills while basking in what maybe the only the spoils of a long hard career... Significance.

Andre Ward has had a handful of significant wins in a short amount of time and is currently displaying some of the finest skills boxing has to offer, yet 90% of fans wont have him in their top 5 because they are probably waiting for him to win some more fights... Which is madness. The skills are their now just as they will be when he's 35.

Very nice post.

[marbleheadmaui]

Well I think with all the titles out there and its harder and harder to unify....I just think it takes longer for the bigger fights to happen.

Yeah but that has nothing to do with any of the number inputs does it? I mean do you think there are young guys who belong in the p4p top ten who can't get the right fights?

Well protecting the 0 has become THE issue in boxing....nobody (with the exception of guys that have already lost) is willing to take a risk these days.

TRUTH!

Makes for really mediocre fighters. I couldn't care less about unbeaten fighters. I care about great ones.

But dont you think we have kind of created this mindset. We are so critical these days when a fighter loses to someone that its gotta have an effect on the mindset of the fighter.

Do I think undereducated (defined as those who disagree with me in this matter)fans are at the core of boxing's issues? I do. Every time someone calls a strapholder a champion, a guy who loses "damaged goods" or argues an unbeaten record equals greatness an unscrupulous promoter calls up a sanctioning body head and crows "I told you these guys were that stupid! Now I gotta find an out of work 135 pound pipefitter to take on my latest 15-0 Cuban defector!"

I do think the tournaments at 168 and at 118 have stemmed the tide a little in that perhaps people now realize occasional losses to other top guys aren't all that meaningful.

I would like to see tournaments at all weight classes, like the 118 one mind you a simple single elimination bracket with each sanctioning body having a representative. Of course the WBA would have to have some kind of tourney on their own. I think bringing the clarity back of having real champs would be a great first step into making the sport back into something the public can understand. Hell even my wife see's through the "but this is a championship fight" case I set forth "They are all title fights" she says, and I can't argue with that.

As too the aging thing, it just seems like it's kind of following the trendline. People that are older are doing more in general and maintaining a peak level longer. Although there is certainly some truth to a lack of dominant talent in the younger guys, a lot of that ties to two things IMO.

1. The amateur system has nothing to do with the pro system, in the old days if a fighter went the am route they could have hundreds of fights that emulated a pro fight, now with the point system a whole different emphasis that doesn't translate into the pros is used. Therefore, we have a system of protection in place that gives young fighters time to relearn their craft.

2. Fighters for the most part are just not as active, as you get into the elite of Cruisers and Heavies a lot of these guys will only fight once a year. IMO if a fighter is capable of it they should be in the ring at least once every 3 months.

Nice post.