Kermit THE KILLER Cintron VS Vanes Martirosyan

[FinitoElDinamita]

I havent seen any hate on this forum but Im tired of other people talking shit about Cintron.. Kermit is a killer, straight up. This guy started boxing when he was 19 with no amatuer experience. He used to be a wrestling standout and had to make a late transition to this sport so for a guy who picked up boxing that late, he's an overachiever. Most guys who started boxing late are not able to box naturally but kermit is a fuckin natural.. He boxes instinctively unlike the Chavez Jrs and the Paez Jrs...

His losses to Margo are questionable due to the plaster scandal and who would have thought that he'd be the one to take Angulo's 0? Even against williams, he was winning the fight prior to jumping out the ring like nacho libre n shit. I dont know what happened there but the fact is, he's a dammm great fighter and he can have hiccups just like any other fighter out there...

He would beat the shit out of Vanes and Cotto right now.

well he was also given a gift draw in a fight he lost twice, he's a decent fighter, and IMO he'd never beat Cotto, Miguel schools him just like Cintron schooled Angulo

Cotto, at his best, probably would have beaten Cintron but he's lost quite a few steps. He's past his prime ( slightly ) and with his guard being the way it is, he's susceptible to uppercuts which happens to be a lethal weapon of Cintron. He'd also have to worry about Kermit's jabs and he if he does get past it, right hand would be waiting for him.

Cintron is just all wrong for him imo.

Cotto has the better timing, his defense looked sharper than ever against Mayorga, he's a better technical fighter than Cintron, has better footwork than Kermit, and he puts combinations together better than Cintron, Kermit has always been open to the body as seen against Margarito in the rematch, Cotto would pop him off with the jab, timing Kermit as he comes in and would just flurry him and move away busting him up throughout the fight, probably getting a UD or late stoppage

Maybe you're putting a little too much stock into the current Cotto cuz honestly, it sounds like you're describing an 08 version of him.. He's clearly not as sharp as back then and i think his punch resistance has gone down a little bit. His defense appeared as though it got sharper because look who was in front of him.. a defenseless and crude Mayorga gave didnt give him much to think about from a technical standpoint. And I dont Cotto looked that great against mayorga cuz frankly, he shouldn't have got hit that often. Mayorga even hurt him a few times and it was evident that Cotto's best days are behind him. Better footwork than Cintron? No way bro... At best, they are on par in terms of footwork. Cintron positions himself better and finds better openings i think but that's just me. Cotto is the better body puncher, no arguemene there but I also think you're understimating Kermits' size and reach advantage. For sure this version of Cotto isn't going to jab his way inside cuz he'd just be running into right hands and uppercuts from long range. Cotto's jab is good but it's not better than Cintron's and he just doesnt use them enough. They are also equal in the boxing department so cotto would have to take alot of chances to get within punching range and dont see him making it to 12th round.

Cintron wanted to fight cotto badly but Arum and co knows that he's a dangerous/Low reward opponent so they arent speaking a word of him. They're both Puerto Ricans so a fight on the island would sell..
Understandable though, Cintron is too risky for him.

Cintron was offered the fight 2 yrs ago here on the island and chose not to take it, and the only punches Mayorga landed that "hurt" Cotto were the 5 repeated shots to the back of the head, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, cause IMO no way in hell does Kermit beat any version of Cotto, who has he EVER beaten on the level of Cotto? his biggest win to date was the decision against Angulo, anything other than that has been kinda flat

As I remember it, not only was Cintron still at the rebuilding stage, but, Arum short changed him badly so he just chose to face Martinez instead for the interim WBC title. He fought the risky Martinez and Angulo so you're not implying that he ducked Cotto, are you? Whatever happened then, it wasn't Cintron's fault for the fight not materializing. I know for sure that he's been itching for a fight with Cotto.

I keep mentioning the " current " cotto but I can honestly say that an undefeated Angulo was and still is alot more dangerous than today's cotto. So yea, I give cintron mad props for pulling that off.. Not using the ABC logic here but I can't imagine Cotto beating Angulo at this stage of his career..

Arum is keeping his cash cow as far as possible from Cintron..

[ElTerribleMorales]

I havent seen any hate on this forum but Im tired of other people talking shit about Cintron.. Kermit is a killer, straight up. This guy started boxing when he was 19 with no amatuer experience. He used to be a wrestling standout and had to make a late transition to this sport so for a guy who picked up boxing that late, he's an overachiever. Most guys who started boxing late are not able to box naturally but kermit is a fuckin natural.. He boxes instinctively unlike the Chavez Jrs and the Paez Jrs...

His losses to Margo are questionable due to the plaster scandal and who would have thought that he'd be the one to take Angulo's 0? Even against williams, he was winning the fight prior to jumping out the ring like nacho libre n shit. I dont know what happened there but the fact is, he's a dammm great fighter and he can have hiccups just like any other fighter out there...

He would beat the shit out of Vanes and Cotto right now.

well he was also given a gift draw in a fight he lost twice, he's a decent fighter, and IMO he'd never beat Cotto, Miguel schools him just like Cintron schooled Angulo

Cotto, at his best, probably would have beaten Cintron but he's lost quite a few steps. He's past his prime ( slightly ) and with his guard being the way it is, he's susceptible to uppercuts which happens to be a lethal weapon of Cintron. He'd also have to worry about Kermit's jabs and he if he does get past it, right hand would be waiting for him.

Cintron is just all wrong for him imo.

Cotto has the better timing, his defense looked sharper than ever against Mayorga, he's a better technical fighter than Cintron, has better footwork than Kermit, and he puts combinations together better than Cintron, Kermit has always been open to the body as seen against Margarito in the rematch, Cotto would pop him off with the jab, timing Kermit as he comes in and would just flurry him and move away busting him up throughout the fight, probably getting a UD or late stoppage

Maybe you're putting a little too much stock into the current Cotto cuz honestly, it sounds like you're describing an 08 version of him.. He's clearly not as sharp as back then and i think his punch resistance has gone down a little bit. His defense appeared as though it got sharper because look who was in front of him.. a defenseless and crude Mayorga gave didnt give him much to think about from a technical standpoint. And I dont Cotto looked that great against mayorga cuz frankly, he shouldn't have got hit that often. Mayorga even hurt him a few times and it was evident that Cotto's best days are behind him. Better footwork than Cintron? No way bro... At best, they are on par in terms of footwork. Cintron positions himself better and finds better openings i think but that's just me. Cotto is the better body puncher, no arguemene there but I also think you're understimating Kermits' size and reach advantage. For sure this version of Cotto isn't going to jab his way inside cuz he'd just be running into right hands and uppercuts from long range. Cotto's jab is good but it's not better than Cintron's and he just doesnt use them enough. They are also equal in the boxing department so cotto would have to take alot of chances to get within punching range and dont see him making it to 12th round.

Cintron wanted to fight cotto badly but Arum and co knows that he's a dangerous/Low reward opponent so they arent speaking a word of him. They're both Puerto Ricans so a fight on the island would sell..
Understandable though, Cintron is too risky for him.

Cintron was offered the fight 2 yrs ago here on the island and chose not to take it, and the only punches Mayorga landed that "hurt" Cotto were the 5 repeated shots to the back of the head, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, cause IMO no way in hell does Kermit beat any version of Cotto, who has he EVER beaten on the level of Cotto? his biggest win to date was the decision against Angulo, anything other than that has been kinda flat

As I remember it, not only was Cintron still at the rebuilding stage, but, Arum short changed him badly so he just chose to face Martinez instead for the interim WBC title. He fought the risky Martinez and Angulo so you're not implying that he ducked Cotto, are you? Whatever happened then, it wasn't Cintron's fault for the fight not materializing. I know for sure that he's been itching for a fight with Cotto.

I keep mentioning the " current " cotto but I can honestly say that an undefeated Angulo was and still is alot more dangerous than today's cotto. So yea, I give cintron mad props for pulling that off.. Not using the ABC logic here but I can't imagine Cotto beating Angulo at this stage of his career..

Arum is keeping his cash cow as far as possible from Cintron..

and i know you're not trying to imply that Cotto is running from the guy who jumped out of the ring in order not to continue against Williams, are you?

[Spicoli]

Hell I'm still trying to figure out how he lost twice in one fight and got a draw out of it. Cintron has the build and frame guys dream of, i think he has the pop and deep experience to up end Vanes on rushing game but his head better be right and he needs to shoo the kittens outta his chest once in a while. Great crossroads fight.

[marbleheadmaui]

Hell I'm still trying to figure out how he lost twice in one fight and got a draw out of it. Cintron has the build and frame guys dream of, i think he has the pop and deep experience to up end Vanes on rushing game but his head better be right and he needs to shoo the kittens outta his chest once in a while. Great crossroads fight.

GREAT phrase! never heard that one!

[Ant Live]

I'd ask for this fight in another thread. And I hope it happens.
Anyone knows why Cintron stop using Manny as a trainer? Or was that Manny's idea to stop trainer him? And is there any chance Cintron and Manny can reunite?


BTW, Cintron by MD

[FinitoElDinamita]

I havent seen any hate on this forum but Im tired of other people talking shit about Cintron.. Kermit is a killer, straight up. This guy started boxing when he was 19 with no amatuer experience. He used to be a wrestling standout and had to make a late transition to this sport so for a guy who picked up boxing that late, he's an overachiever. Most guys who started boxing late are not able to box naturally but kermit is a fuckin natural.. He boxes instinctively unlike the Chavez Jrs and the Paez Jrs...

His losses to Margo are questionable due to the plaster scandal and who would have thought that he'd be the one to take Angulo's 0? Even against williams, he was winning the fight prior to jumping out the ring like nacho libre n shit. I dont know what happened there but the fact is, he's a dammm great fighter and he can have hiccups just like any other fighter out there...

He would beat the shit out of Vanes and Cotto right now.

well he was also given a gift draw in a fight he lost twice, he's a decent fighter, and IMO he'd never beat Cotto, Miguel schools him just like Cintron schooled Angulo

Cotto, at his best, probably would have beaten Cintron but he's lost quite a few steps. He's past his prime ( slightly ) and with his guard being the way it is, he's susceptible to uppercuts which happens to be a lethal weapon of Cintron. He'd also have to worry about Kermit's jabs and he if he does get past it, right hand would be waiting for him.

Cintron is just all wrong for him imo.

Cotto has the better timing, his defense looked sharper than ever against Mayorga, he's a better technical fighter than Cintron, has better footwork than Kermit, and he puts combinations together better than Cintron, Kermit has always been open to the body as seen against Margarito in the rematch, Cotto would pop him off with the jab, timing Kermit as he comes in and would just flurry him and move away busting him up throughout the fight, probably getting a UD or late stoppage

Maybe you're putting a little too much stock into the current Cotto cuz honestly, it sounds like you're describing an 08 version of him.. He's clearly not as sharp as back then and i think his punch resistance has gone down a little bit. His defense appeared as though it got sharper because look who was in front of him.. a defenseless and crude Mayorga gave didnt give him much to think about from a technical standpoint. And I dont Cotto looked that great against mayorga cuz frankly, he shouldn't have got hit that often. Mayorga even hurt him a few times and it was evident that Cotto's best days are behind him. Better footwork than Cintron? No way bro... At best, they are on par in terms of footwork. Cintron positions himself better and finds better openings i think but that's just me. Cotto is the better body puncher, no arguemene there but I also think you're understimating Kermits' size and reach advantage. For sure this version of Cotto isn't going to jab his way inside cuz he'd just be running into right hands and uppercuts from long range. Cotto's jab is good but it's not better than Cintron's and he just doesnt use them enough. They are also equal in the boxing department so cotto would have to take alot of chances to get within punching range and dont see him making it to 12th round.

Cintron wanted to fight cotto badly but Arum and co knows that he's a dangerous/Low reward opponent so they arent speaking a word of him. They're both Puerto Ricans so a fight on the island would sell..
Understandable though, Cintron is too risky for him.

Cintron was offered the fight 2 yrs ago here on the island and chose not to take it, and the only punches Mayorga landed that "hurt" Cotto were the 5 repeated shots to the back of the head, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, cause IMO no way in hell does Kermit beat any version of Cotto, who has he EVER beaten on the level of Cotto? his biggest win to date was the decision against Angulo, anything other than that has been kinda flat

As I remember it, not only was Cintron still at the rebuilding stage, but, Arum short changed him badly so he just chose to face Martinez instead for the interim WBC title. He fought the risky Martinez and Angulo so you're not implying that he ducked Cotto, are you? Whatever happened then, it wasn't Cintron's fault for the fight not materializing. I know for sure that he's been itching for a fight with Cotto.

I keep mentioning the " current " cotto but I can honestly say that an undefeated Angulo was and still is alot more dangerous than today's cotto. So yea, I give cintron mad props for pulling that off.. Not using the ABC logic here but I can't imagine Cotto beating Angulo at this stage of his career..

Arum is keeping his cash cow as far as possible from Cintron..

and i know you're not trying to imply that Cotto is running from the guy who jumped out of the ring in order not to continue against Williams, are you?

Im not.. I dont think Cintron gives Cotto nightmares like Margarito does but Im convinced that he's very reluctant to face someone like Kermit. Business wise, it just doesn't make much sense for him, I guess.

Fact is though, Cintron made it clear, on more than one occasion, that he wanted to face Cotto but the name Cintron never comes out of Cotto's mouth.

[Rantcatrat]

I am one of the few that am a fan of Vanes Martirosyan. However, Vanes hasn't shown us anything in his recent fights to make us think he is going to be special. Vanes won't fight Cintron because he is Alvarez's mandatory and there is more money in an Alvarez fight.

It's strange you paired Cintron with Martirosyan because I'm also one of the few on this board who is a fan of Cintron's. Cintron is a solid athlete with good boxing ability. However, like Killer said, he suffers to some extent from the Judah syndrome. He needs another big win at this point in his career because he isn't getting any younger. Arum tried to match Clottey with Cintron, but Clottey backed out complaining that the compensation wasn't sufficient. That would have been a solid undercard fight to a Chavez Jr. fight. Someone like that would suit Cintron well. You know what? How about the Polish guy who beat Foreman? I'm blanking on his name. Throw that on the Cotto v. Chavez Jr. undercard.

I agree with Finita - I like Cintron over the 11' Cotto. Now the 08' Cotto would blow Cintron out of the water with those crushing body shots, but the 11' Cotto is just out there for big money fights. Not that he doesn't deserve it, mind you. Cotto's punch resistance has deteriorated a lot, which unfortunately is probably due to Margacheato's use of plaster in their fight.

[ElTerribleMorales]

I havent seen any hate on this forum but Im tired of other people talking shit about Cintron.. Kermit is a killer, straight up. This guy started boxing when he was 19 with no amatuer experience. He used to be a wrestling standout and had to make a late transition to this sport so for a guy who picked up boxing that late, he's an overachiever. Most guys who started boxing late are not able to box naturally but kermit is a fuckin natural.. He boxes instinctively unlike the Chavez Jrs and the Paez Jrs...

His losses to Margo are questionable due to the plaster scandal and who would have thought that he'd be the one to take Angulo's 0? Even against williams, he was winning the fight prior to jumping out the ring like nacho libre n shit. I dont know what happened there but the fact is, he's a dammm great fighter and he can have hiccups just like any other fighter out there...

He would beat the shit out of Vanes and Cotto right now.

well he was also given a gift draw in a fight he lost twice, he's a decent fighter, and IMO he'd never beat Cotto, Miguel schools him just like Cintron schooled Angulo

Cotto, at his best, probably would have beaten Cintron but he's lost quite a few steps. He's past his prime ( slightly ) and with his guard being the way it is, he's susceptible to uppercuts which happens to be a lethal weapon of Cintron. He'd also have to worry about Kermit's jabs and he if he does get past it, right hand would be waiting for him.

Cintron is just all wrong for him imo.

Cotto has the better timing, his defense looked sharper than ever against Mayorga, he's a better technical fighter than Cintron, has better footwork than Kermit, and he puts combinations together better than Cintron, Kermit has always been open to the body as seen against Margarito in the rematch, Cotto would pop him off with the jab, timing Kermit as he comes in and would just flurry him and move away busting him up throughout the fight, probably getting a UD or late stoppage

Maybe you're putting a little too much stock into the current Cotto cuz honestly, it sounds like you're describing an 08 version of him.. He's clearly not as sharp as back then and i think his punch resistance has gone down a little bit. His defense appeared as though it got sharper because look who was in front of him.. a defenseless and crude Mayorga gave didnt give him much to think about from a technical standpoint. And I dont Cotto looked that great against mayorga cuz frankly, he shouldn't have got hit that often. Mayorga even hurt him a few times and it was evident that Cotto's best days are behind him. Better footwork than Cintron? No way bro... At best, they are on par in terms of footwork. Cintron positions himself better and finds better openings i think but that's just me. Cotto is the better body puncher, no arguemene there but I also think you're understimating Kermits' size and reach advantage. For sure this version of Cotto isn't going to jab his way inside cuz he'd just be running into right hands and uppercuts from long range. Cotto's jab is good but it's not better than Cintron's and he just doesnt use them enough. They are also equal in the boxing department so cotto would have to take alot of chances to get within punching range and dont see him making it to 12th round.

Cintron wanted to fight cotto badly but Arum and co knows that he's a dangerous/Low reward opponent so they arent speaking a word of him. They're both Puerto Ricans so a fight on the island would sell..
Understandable though, Cintron is too risky for him.

Cintron was offered the fight 2 yrs ago here on the island and chose not to take it, and the only punches Mayorga landed that "hurt" Cotto were the 5 repeated shots to the back of the head, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, cause IMO no way in hell does Kermit beat any version of Cotto, who has he EVER beaten on the level of Cotto? his biggest win to date was the decision against Angulo, anything other than that has been kinda flat

As I remember it, not only was Cintron still at the rebuilding stage, but, Arum short changed him badly so he just chose to face Martinez instead for the interim WBC title. He fought the risky Martinez and Angulo so you're not implying that he ducked Cotto, are you? Whatever happened then, it wasn't Cintron's fault for the fight not materializing. I know for sure that he's been itching for a fight with Cotto.

I keep mentioning the " current " cotto but I can honestly say that an undefeated Angulo was and still is alot more dangerous than today's cotto. So yea, I give cintron mad props for pulling that off.. Not using the ABC logic here but I can't imagine Cotto beating Angulo at this stage of his career..

Arum is keeping his cash cow as far as possible from Cintron..

and i know you're not trying to imply that Cotto is running from the guy who jumped out of the ring in order not to continue against Williams, are you?

Im not.. I dont think Cintron gives Cotto nightmares like Margarito does but Im convinced that he's very reluctant to face someone like Kermit. Business wise, it just doesn't make much sense for him, I guess.

Fact is though, Cintron made it clear, on more than one occasion, that he wanted to face Cotto but the name Cintron never comes out of Cotto's mouth.

when has Cotto ever called anyone out? his response is always the same "i'll let my promoter decide who i will face next"

the fact that Cintron is only NOW finally fighting again after his stage dive against Williams gives people a reason to question his heart, either way he beats Molina and then fights someone like Julio or Kirkland, i'm damned sure he won't be asking for a rematch against Martinez though, whom Cotto has expressed interest in facing

[Rantcatrat]

Cotto isn't fighting Maravilla, ElTerrible. Let's be honest with ourselves, man. Will he jump to 160 for a pay check against Chavez Jr. ? Yes, because the pay day is bigger and he's about 1/8 the risk. Bob Arum has said on a few different occasions that he won't put his guys in with Martinez even though he is good because it doesn't make business sense. Cotto deserves to fight big pay days after what he's given us if that's what he wants. Don't get me wrong.

[FinitoElDinamita]

I havent seen any hate on this forum but Im tired of other people talking shit about Cintron.. Kermit is a killer, straight up. This guy started boxing when he was 19 with no amatuer experience. He used to be a wrestling standout and had to make a late transition to this sport so for a guy who picked up boxing that late, he's an overachiever. Most guys who started boxing late are not able to box naturally but kermit is a fuckin natural.. He boxes instinctively unlike the Chavez Jrs and the Paez Jrs...

His losses to Margo are questionable due to the plaster scandal and who would have thought that he'd be the one to take Angulo's 0? Even against williams, he was winning the fight prior to jumping out the ring like nacho libre n shit. I dont know what happened there but the fact is, he's a dammm great fighter and he can have hiccups just like any other fighter out there...

He would beat the shit out of Vanes and Cotto right now.

well he was also given a gift draw in a fight he lost twice, he's a decent fighter, and IMO he'd never beat Cotto, Miguel schools him just like Cintron schooled Angulo

Cotto, at his best, probably would have beaten Cintron but he's lost quite a few steps. He's past his prime ( slightly ) and with his guard being the way it is, he's susceptible to uppercuts which happens to be a lethal weapon of Cintron. He'd also have to worry about Kermit's jabs and he if he does get past it, right hand would be waiting for him.

Cintron is just all wrong for him imo.

Cotto has the better timing, his defense looked sharper than ever against Mayorga, he's a better technical fighter than Cintron, has better footwork than Kermit, and he puts combinations together better than Cintron, Kermit has always been open to the body as seen against Margarito in the rematch, Cotto would pop him off with the jab, timing Kermit as he comes in and would just flurry him and move away busting him up throughout the fight, probably getting a UD or late stoppage

Maybe you're putting a little too much stock into the current Cotto cuz honestly, it sounds like you're describing an 08 version of him.. He's clearly not as sharp as back then and i think his punch resistance has gone down a little bit. His defense appeared as though it got sharper because look who was in front of him.. a defenseless and crude Mayorga gave didnt give him much to think about from a technical standpoint. And I dont Cotto looked that great against mayorga cuz frankly, he shouldn't have got hit that often. Mayorga even hurt him a few times and it was evident that Cotto's best days are behind him. Better footwork than Cintron? No way bro... At best, they are on par in terms of footwork. Cintron positions himself better and finds better openings i think but that's just me. Cotto is the better body puncher, no arguemene there but I also think you're understimating Kermits' size and reach advantage. For sure this version of Cotto isn't going to jab his way inside cuz he'd just be running into right hands and uppercuts from long range. Cotto's jab is good but it's not better than Cintron's and he just doesnt use them enough. They are also equal in the boxing department so cotto would have to take alot of chances to get within punching range and dont see him making it to 12th round.

Cintron wanted to fight cotto badly but Arum and co knows that he's a dangerous/Low reward opponent so they arent speaking a word of him. They're both Puerto Ricans so a fight on the island would sell..
Understandable though, Cintron is too risky for him.

Cintron was offered the fight 2 yrs ago here on the island and chose not to take it, and the only punches Mayorga landed that "hurt" Cotto were the 5 repeated shots to the back of the head, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, cause IMO no way in hell does Kermit beat any version of Cotto, who has he EVER beaten on the level of Cotto? his biggest win to date was the decision against Angulo, anything other than that has been kinda flat

As I remember it, not only was Cintron still at the rebuilding stage, but, Arum short changed him badly so he just chose to face Martinez instead for the interim WBC title. He fought the risky Martinez and Angulo so you're not implying that he ducked Cotto, are you? Whatever happened then, it wasn't Cintron's fault for the fight not materializing. I know for sure that he's been itching for a fight with Cotto.

I keep mentioning the " current " cotto but I can honestly say that an undefeated Angulo was and still is alot more dangerous than today's cotto. So yea, I give cintron mad props for pulling that off.. Not using the ABC logic here but I can't imagine Cotto beating Angulo at this stage of his career..

Arum is keeping his cash cow as far as possible from Cintron..

and i know you're not trying to imply that Cotto is running from the guy who jumped out of the ring in order not to continue against Williams, are you?

Im not.. I dont think Cintron gives Cotto nightmares like Margarito does but Im convinced that he's very reluctant to face someone like Kermit. Business wise, it just doesn't make much sense for him, I guess.

Fact is though, Cintron made it clear, on more than one occasion, that he wanted to face Cotto but the name Cintron never comes out of Cotto's mouth.

when has Cotto ever called anyone out? his response is always the same "i'll let my promoter decide who i will face next"

the fact that Cintron is only NOW finally fighting again after his stage dive against Williams gives people a reason to question his heart, either way he beats Molina and then fights someone like Julio or Kirkland, i'm damned sure he won't be asking for a rematch against Martinez though, whom Cotto has expressed interest in facing

That's another thing about him that I never liked. He was babied for the first 6 years of his career until he finally fought Judah in 07. At this stage of his career, he has the authority to call out and fight whoever he wants regardless of what his promoter says. Yet He's content on hiding behind Arum and he knows arum will never let him anywhere near Martinez anyways. And he's fine with that.. Funny thing is he'll probably fight and beat the all mighty Chavez Jr next and claim to be the first 4 division, Puerto Rican Champ.

Yea, we got to agree to disagree on this one. We dont see eye to eye on Cotto.

[ElTerribleMorales]

I havent seen any hate on this forum but Im tired of other people talking shit about Cintron.. Kermit is a killer, straight up. This guy started boxing when he was 19 with no amatuer experience. He used to be a wrestling standout and had to make a late transition to this sport so for a guy who picked up boxing that late, he's an overachiever. Most guys who started boxing late are not able to box naturally but kermit is a fuckin natural.. He boxes instinctively unlike the Chavez Jrs and the Paez Jrs...

His losses to Margo are questionable due to the plaster scandal and who would have thought that he'd be the one to take Angulo's 0? Even against williams, he was winning the fight prior to jumping out the ring like nacho libre n shit. I dont know what happened there but the fact is, he's a dammm great fighter and he can have hiccups just like any other fighter out there...

He would beat the shit out of Vanes and Cotto right now.

well he was also given a gift draw in a fight he lost twice, he's a decent fighter, and IMO he'd never beat Cotto, Miguel schools him just like Cintron schooled Angulo

Cotto, at his best, probably would have beaten Cintron but he's lost quite a few steps. He's past his prime ( slightly ) and with his guard being the way it is, he's susceptible to uppercuts which happens to be a lethal weapon of Cintron. He'd also have to worry about Kermit's jabs and he if he does get past it, right hand would be waiting for him.

Cintron is just all wrong for him imo.

Cotto has the better timing, his defense looked sharper than ever against Mayorga, he's a better technical fighter than Cintron, has better footwork than Kermit, and he puts combinations together better than Cintron, Kermit has always been open to the body as seen against Margarito in the rematch, Cotto would pop him off with the jab, timing Kermit as he comes in and would just flurry him and move away busting him up throughout the fight, probably getting a UD or late stoppage

Maybe you're putting a little too much stock into the current Cotto cuz honestly, it sounds like you're describing an 08 version of him.. He's clearly not as sharp as back then and i think his punch resistance has gone down a little bit. His defense appeared as though it got sharper because look who was in front of him.. a defenseless and crude Mayorga gave didnt give him much to think about from a technical standpoint. And I dont Cotto looked that great against mayorga cuz frankly, he shouldn't have got hit that often. Mayorga even hurt him a few times and it was evident that Cotto's best days are behind him. Better footwork than Cintron? No way bro... At best, they are on par in terms of footwork. Cintron positions himself better and finds better openings i think but that's just me. Cotto is the better body puncher, no arguemene there but I also think you're understimating Kermits' size and reach advantage. For sure this version of Cotto isn't going to jab his way inside cuz he'd just be running into right hands and uppercuts from long range. Cotto's jab is good but it's not better than Cintron's and he just doesnt use them enough. They are also equal in the boxing department so cotto would have to take alot of chances to get within punching range and dont see him making it to 12th round.

Cintron wanted to fight cotto badly but Arum and co knows that he's a dangerous/Low reward opponent so they arent speaking a word of him. They're both Puerto Ricans so a fight on the island would sell..
Understandable though, Cintron is too risky for him.

Cintron was offered the fight 2 yrs ago here on the island and chose not to take it, and the only punches Mayorga landed that "hurt" Cotto were the 5 repeated shots to the back of the head, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, cause IMO no way in hell does Kermit beat any version of Cotto, who has he EVER beaten on the level of Cotto? his biggest win to date was the decision against Angulo, anything other than that has been kinda flat

As I remember it, not only was Cintron still at the rebuilding stage, but, Arum short changed him badly so he just chose to face Martinez instead for the interim WBC title. He fought the risky Martinez and Angulo so you're not implying that he ducked Cotto, are you? Whatever happened then, it wasn't Cintron's fault for the fight not materializing. I know for sure that he's been itching for a fight with Cotto.

I keep mentioning the " current " cotto but I can honestly say that an undefeated Angulo was and still is alot more dangerous than today's cotto. So yea, I give cintron mad props for pulling that off.. Not using the ABC logic here but I can't imagine Cotto beating Angulo at this stage of his career..

Arum is keeping his cash cow as far as possible from Cintron..

and i know you're not trying to imply that Cotto is running from the guy who jumped out of the ring in order not to continue against Williams, are you?

Im not.. I dont think Cintron gives Cotto nightmares like Margarito does but Im convinced that he's very reluctant to face someone like Kermit. Business wise, it just doesn't make much sense for him, I guess.

Fact is though, Cintron made it clear, on more than one occasion, that he wanted to face Cotto but the name Cintron never comes out of Cotto's mouth.

when has Cotto ever called anyone out? his response is always the same "i'll let my promoter decide who i will face next"

the fact that Cintron is only NOW finally fighting again after his stage dive against Williams gives people a reason to question his heart, either way he beats Molina and then fights someone like Julio or Kirkland, i'm damned sure he won't be asking for a rematch against Martinez though, whom Cotto has expressed interest in facing

That's another thing about him that I never liked. He was babied for the first 6 years of his career until he finally fought Judah in 07. At this stage of his career, he has the authority to call out and fight whoever he wants regardless of what his promoter says. Yet He's content on hiding behind Arum and he knows arum will never let him anywhere near Martinez anyways. And he's fine with that.. Funny thing is he'll probably fight and beat the all mighty Chavez Jr next and claim to be the first 4 division, Puerto Rican Champ.

Yea, we got to agree to disagree on this one. We dont see eye to eye on Cotto.

babied? the guy had already beaten guys like Bazan, Maussa, Sosa, N'Dou, Bailey, Corley, Torres, Branco, Malignaggi, and Quintana all before fighting Judah

who the hell did Cintron fight before going up against Margarito? oh right, Teddy Reid

lets not get it twisted, Cintron runs his mouth that he wants the big fights, but when ever offered a real big fight he either folds up and melts down, or he tucks ass and runs (literally against Williams, and figuratively against Quintana when they were slated to fight twice last year)

saying Cotto is running from Cintron of all people is like saying that Pacquiao is running scared of Alfonso Gomez, just look at their records and it's apples and oranges

Cotto

Cesar Bazan
Carlos Maussa
Victoriano Sosa
Lovemore N'Dou
Randall Bailey
DeMarcus Corley
Ricardo Torres
Gianluca Branco
Paulie Malignaggi
Carlos Quintana
Oktay Urkal
Zab Judah
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Yuri Foreman
Ricardo Mayorga
and his only two losses, Margarito, and Pacquiao

Cintron
Teddy Reid
David Estrada
Walter Matthysse
Jesse Feliciano
Lovemore N'Dou
Alfredo Angulo
and his losses, Margarito (twice), Martinez (on paper a draw, should be LTKO and LUD), and Williams

Cintron gets the criticism he deserves because whatever talent he has doesn't make up for the heart and desire that he doesn't have

[FinitoElDinamita]

I havent seen any hate on this forum but Im tired of other people talking shit about Cintron.. Kermit is a killer, straight up. This guy started boxing when he was 19 with no amatuer experience. He used to be a wrestling standout and had to make a late transition to this sport so for a guy who picked up boxing that late, he's an overachiever. Most guys who started boxing late are not able to box naturally but kermit is a fuckin natural.. He boxes instinctively unlike the Chavez Jrs and the Paez Jrs...

His losses to Margo are questionable due to the plaster scandal and who would have thought that he'd be the one to take Angulo's 0? Even against williams, he was winning the fight prior to jumping out the ring like nacho libre n shit. I dont know what happened there but the fact is, he's a dammm great fighter and he can have hiccups just like any other fighter out there...

He would beat the shit out of Vanes and Cotto right now.

well he was also given a gift draw in a fight he lost twice, he's a decent fighter, and IMO he'd never beat Cotto, Miguel schools him just like Cintron schooled Angulo

Cotto, at his best, probably would have beaten Cintron but he's lost quite a few steps. He's past his prime ( slightly ) and with his guard being the way it is, he's susceptible to uppercuts which happens to be a lethal weapon of Cintron. He'd also have to worry about Kermit's jabs and he if he does get past it, right hand would be waiting for him.

Cintron is just all wrong for him imo.

Cotto has the better timing, his defense looked sharper than ever against Mayorga, he's a better technical fighter than Cintron, has better footwork than Kermit, and he puts combinations together better than Cintron, Kermit has always been open to the body as seen against Margarito in the rematch, Cotto would pop him off with the jab, timing Kermit as he comes in and would just flurry him and move away busting him up throughout the fight, probably getting a UD or late stoppage

Maybe you're putting a little too much stock into the current Cotto cuz honestly, it sounds like you're describing an 08 version of him.. He's clearly not as sharp as back then and i think his punch resistance has gone down a little bit. His defense appeared as though it got sharper because look who was in front of him.. a defenseless and crude Mayorga gave didnt give him much to think about from a technical standpoint. And I dont Cotto looked that great against mayorga cuz frankly, he shouldn't have got hit that often. Mayorga even hurt him a few times and it was evident that Cotto's best days are behind him. Better footwork than Cintron? No way bro... At best, they are on par in terms of footwork. Cintron positions himself better and finds better openings i think but that's just me. Cotto is the better body puncher, no arguemene there but I also think you're understimating Kermits' size and reach advantage. For sure this version of Cotto isn't going to jab his way inside cuz he'd just be running into right hands and uppercuts from long range. Cotto's jab is good but it's not better than Cintron's and he just doesnt use them enough. They are also equal in the boxing department so cotto would have to take alot of chances to get within punching range and dont see him making it to 12th round.

Cintron wanted to fight cotto badly but Arum and co knows that he's a dangerous/Low reward opponent so they arent speaking a word of him. They're both Puerto Ricans so a fight on the island would sell..
Understandable though, Cintron is too risky for him.

Cintron was offered the fight 2 yrs ago here on the island and chose not to take it, and the only punches Mayorga landed that "hurt" Cotto were the 5 repeated shots to the back of the head, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, cause IMO no way in hell does Kermit beat any version of Cotto, who has he EVER beaten on the level of Cotto? his biggest win to date was the decision against Angulo, anything other than that has been kinda flat

As I remember it, not only was Cintron still at the rebuilding stage, but, Arum short changed him badly so he just chose to face Martinez instead for the interim WBC title. He fought the risky Martinez and Angulo so you're not implying that he ducked Cotto, are you? Whatever happened then, it wasn't Cintron's fault for the fight not materializing. I know for sure that he's been itching for a fight with Cotto.

I keep mentioning the " current " cotto but I can honestly say that an undefeated Angulo was and still is alot more dangerous than today's cotto. So yea, I give cintron mad props for pulling that off.. Not using the ABC logic here but I can't imagine Cotto beating Angulo at this stage of his career..

Arum is keeping his cash cow as far as possible from Cintron..

and i know you're not trying to imply that Cotto is running from the guy who jumped out of the ring in order not to continue against Williams, are you?

Im not.. I dont think Cintron gives Cotto nightmares like Margarito does but Im convinced that he's very reluctant to face someone like Kermit. Business wise, it just doesn't make much sense for him, I guess.

Fact is though, Cintron made it clear, on more than one occasion, that he wanted to face Cotto but the name Cintron never comes out of Cotto's mouth.

when has Cotto ever called anyone out? his response is always the same "i'll let my promoter decide who i will face next"

the fact that Cintron is only NOW finally fighting again after his stage dive against Williams gives people a reason to question his heart, either way he beats Molina and then fights someone like Julio or Kirkland, i'm damned sure he won't be asking for a rematch against Martinez though, whom Cotto has expressed interest in facing

That's another thing about him that I never liked. He was babied for the first 6 years of his career until he finally fought Judah in 07. At this stage of his career, he has the authority to call out and fight whoever he wants regardless of what his promoter says. Yet He's content on hiding behind Arum and he knows arum will never let him anywhere near Martinez anyways. And he's fine with that.. Funny thing is he'll probably fight and beat the all mighty Chavez Jr next and claim to be the first 4 division, Puerto Rican Champ.

Yea, we got to agree to disagree on this one. We dont see eye to eye on Cotto.

babied? the guy had already beaten guys like Bazan, Maussa, Sosa, N'Dou, Bailey, Corley, Torres, Branco, Malignaggi, and Quintana all before fighting Judah

who the hell did Cintron fight before going up against Margarito? oh right, Teddy Reid

lets not get it twisted, Cintron runs his mouth that he wants the big fights, but when ever offered a real big fight he either folds up and melts down, or he tucks ass and runs (literally against Williams, and figuratively against Quintana when they were slated to fight twice last year)

saying Cotto is running from Cintron of all people is like saying that Pacquiao is running scared of Alfonso Gomez, just look at their records and it's apples and oranges

Cotto

Cesar Bazan
Carlos Maussa
Victoriano Sosa
Lovemore N'Dou
Randall Bailey
DeMarcus Corley
Ricardo Torres
Gianluca Branco
Paulie Malignaggi
Carlos Quintana
Oktay Urkal
Zab Judah
Shane Mosley
Joshua Clottey
Yuri Foreman
Ricardo Mayorga
and his only two losses, Margarito, and Pacquiao

Cintron
Teddy Reid
David Estrada
Walter Matthysse
Jesse Feliciano
Lovemore N'Dou
Alfredo Angulo
and his losses, Margarito (twice), Martinez (on paper a draw, should be LTKO and LUD), and Williams

Cintron gets the criticism he deserves because whatever talent he has doesn't make up for the heart and desire that he doesn't have

Im not here comparing their resumes, bro. Cotto is more accomplished obviously and I never said he's running from Cintron either. But based on their styles and their current form, Cintron would beat him is what im saying..

Im just putting Cotto's resume under microscope. Yea he fought some respectable guys on his way up but it shouldnt have took him nearly 7 years to get into a real fight. I was debating with my Puerto Rican homey the other day about why Floyd/Cotto never took place. He says Cotto was still " GREEN " around 05-06 which was why he declined Floyd's challenge. I told em that's bullshit because guys like Ray Leonard had the legendary Benitez and Duran on his resume in the first 3 years as a pro.. Floyd wanted to fight him but they weren't having none of it. Cotto and hatton were both at Floyd/Gatti to scout him out and during rounds, HBo would show closeup of their faces and they looked scared as hell.. Never spoke of Floyd after that..

I think cotto is about the paychecks now as someone else stated. Because if it was about legacy, he wouldnt be fighting Chavez jr... He should be hollering for a Margarito rematch.

[ElTerribleMorales]

well same can be said about Cintron, if it weren't why take a year off? why take on Molina of all people just cause he had a decent showing against an unproven Lara, instead of lets say Martinez, or make some noise to see if he has the balls to step up against Pacquiao and actually try to win, Kermit Cintron has been only about getting a paycheck, that's why he jumps out of boxing rings, talks himself up, and then threatens to get into MMA whenever he's not making any noise in boxing, sorry but the guy gets the bad press that he earns, that's exactly why he's referred to as Kermit "El Lloron" Cintron over here on the island

[FinitoElDinamita]

well same can be said about Cintron, if it weren't why take a year off? why take on Molina of all people just cause he had a decent showing against an unproven Lara, instead of lets say Martinez, or make some noise to see if he has the balls to step up against Pacquiao and actually try to win, Kermit Cintron has been only about getting a paycheck, that's why he jumps out of boxing rings, talks himself up, and then threatens to get into MMA whenever he's not making any noise in boxing, sorry but the guy gets the bad press that he earns, that's exactly why he's referred to as Kermit "El Lloron" Cintron over here on the island

Martinez is looking for megafights and he wouldn't fancy a Cintron rematch anyways. There's no point in Cintron looking for a rematch at this juncture, realistically. FYI, he's been wanting Berto since his january. He's done everything to secure a match with berto but got declined. What's wrong with Carlos Molina anyways? He's actually a high risk/low reward opponent and Kermit deserves alot of credit for fighting him. As i said, he has to stick to reality and there's no point in calling out Pacquiao either right now. I bet he wouldnt think twice about accepting the fight it was offered to him though..

When Cotto was being spoon fed with gimmie fights and getting rocked by the Torres and the Corleys, Cintron risked himself against dangerous punchers like Reid and stepped up to Margarito in his very next fight, in 05. Cintron/Cotto pretty much started their pro career around the same time yet Cintron had the balls to fight a live body in 05..

Right now, Cotto is a borderline HOF..

[ElTerribleMorales]

well same can be said about Cintron, if it weren't why take a year off? why take on Molina of all people just cause he had a decent showing against an unproven Lara, instead of lets say Martinez, or make some noise to see if he has the balls to step up against Pacquiao and actually try to win, Kermit Cintron has been only about getting a paycheck, that's why he jumps out of boxing rings, talks himself up, and then threatens to get into MMA whenever he's not making any noise in boxing, sorry but the guy gets the bad press that he earns, that's exactly why he's referred to as Kermit "El Lloron" Cintron over here on the island

Martinez is looking for megafights and he wouldn't fancy a Cintron rematch anyways. There's no point in Cintron looking for a rematch at this juncture, realistically. FYI, he's been wanting Berto since his january. He's done everything to secure a match with berto but got declined. What's wrong with Carlos Molina anyways? He's actually a high risk/low reward opponent and Kermit deserves alot of credit for fighting him. As i said, he has to stick to reality and there's no point in calling out Pacquiao either right now. I bet he wouldnt think twice about accepting the fight it was offered to him though..

When Cotto was being spoon fed with gimmie fights and getting rocked by the Torres and the Corleys, Cintron risked himself against dangerous punchers like Reid and stepped up to Margarito in his very next fight, in 05. Cintron/Cotto pretty much started their pro career around the same time yet Cintron had the balls to fight a live body in 05..

Right now, Cotto is a borderline HOF..

how were Torres and Corley gimme fights? if anything they're both on a higher level then Reid because both are former world champs, and weren't on the slide like Reid was, Cotto passed his tests with flying colors while Cintron failed miserably when he finally stepped it up, Martinez has expressed interest in a rematch with Cintron so that he could make it 3-0 against him , again apart from Angulo, who has Cintron ever beat to give any indication that he's anywhere close to the level of Cotto, and Angulo is STILL unproven today