Twin Towers WTC v Grenfell Tower

[Beanz]

Ha! Get over yourself. Where are all my bitter threads? They don't exist. The opposite side of my road is council housing so don't fucking lecture me about how my neighbours are unsavoury from south Korea. The club my coach ran and i still support is on a council estate. Many of the boxers I know live on council estates. You are all a bit weird let's be honest. Triggered, snowfkakes, bi-polar? You sound like teenagers not men.

[TitoFan]

The overwhelming tragedy is the huge loss of life. No one who is a human being is debating that. The WTC mentioned in the opening post was another overwhelming loss of life. Lives lost and families forever affected. Beyond that, there is the reality of money. The building's cladding was combustible, or at least not fire-retardant. That type of fact normally opens up the scenario for humongous lawsuits. Money won't bring back dead relatives... but it should at least lessen the economic impact of their loss. Obviously, this is a process that takes time, and there's the matter of housing survivors. To ignore or shrug off the complaints voiced by some if they feel someone else is being given something for free, that they themselves have to pay dearly for, is to be a bit naive, IMO. Some of the complaints say that their own costs will probably go up as a result of these relocations. Someone with authority should probably be addressing these people, who again, no matter how callous they may sound, have reasonable complaints. Details should be explained. Is this temporary? Is other, alternative housing being sought? How will their concerns be addressed? It can't be easy for some of these people to speak up, for fear of sounding exactly that..... callous. It's not a matter of equating one thing with the other. Loss of life is the greatest tragedy of all. We all mourn it. But life continues, and more mundane problems begin to surface.

This thread has fallen along predictable "party lines" and it's all well and good. But I doubt very seriously that any one of us here is actually minimizing the gravity of the tragedy. What would be unforgivable is for all efforts not to be exhausted in getting to the bottom of the cladding issue, and holding the guilty parties at least financially responsible for what has happened.

[Beanz]

Nice sentiment Tito. Shocking though it may seem I think you are wrong and that there is more than one poster not in the least bit moved by it. It's pretty basic stuff but unbelievably hijacking tragedy for furthering someone's own political agenda is the new "Normal" on Saddo. And that really stinks. Horrendous.

[TitoFan]

Nice sentiment Tito. Shocking though it may seem I think you are wrong and that there is more than one poster not in the least bit moved by it. It's pretty basic stuff but unbelievably hijacking tragedy for furthering someone's own political agenda is the new "Normal" on Saddo. And that really stinks. Horrendous.

Knowing each other only through keyboards tends to dehumanize us sometimes, I think. We see the written words, but we don't see the body language. The smirks, the smiles, the raised eyebrows, etc. I understand that through years of knowing each other it may seem like some of us are incapable of being moved by tragedy. But I don't know..... that would be hard to swallow.

There are some differences, to be sure. Some of us here believe in capital punishment..... others don't. Some of us here wouldn't raise an eyebrow at hearing of a terrorist being executed or blown to smithereens. Others say a life is a life. Political differences a a dime a dozen. I still haven't been able to convince Lyle that I'm right regarding gun control. The cultures thread was pretty good and brought out some heartfelt differences.

What it is, I think, is that many of us "shoot from the hip"..... and things usually go downhill from there.

[walrus]

Ha! Get over yourself. Where are all my bitter threads? They don't exist. The opposite side of my road is council housing so don't fucking lecture me about how my neighbours are unsavoury from south Korea. The club my coach ran and i still support is on a council estate. Many of the boxers I know live on council estates. You are all a bit weird let's be honest. Triggered, snowfkakes, bi-polar? You sound like teenagers not men.

There you go again, lecturing on don't speak about my country from yours but you have made
10,000 posts lecturing America. It's almost crazy. Do u really not see it or are you having a piss

[brocktonblockbust]

I am so much better than beanz in terms of being self-aware it's not even funny. I openly admit that I have obsessive compulsive disorder I openly admit it!!! I have announced it and shown my face ....beanz on the other hand hides all of his disorders ....claims to have none whatsoever while the rest of the forum all points out all of his neurotic abnormalities. That's the difference between me and beans. I can admit that I have obsessive compulsive disorder he cannot ADMIT a damn thing at all. That tells it all right there

[Spicoli]

Could be the tip of the iceberg. Didn't they find numerous other properties with like materials and violations? The thought of being stuck in an apartment as fire breaks out is quite the pucker-factor. My very first apt was pretty damn bad and depending on what your neighbor cooked for dinner the smoke alarms would blare. Got to the point where you keep a couple bags packed near the door.

[El Kabong]

Ha! Get over yourself. Where are all my bitter threads? They don't exist. The opposite side of my road is council housing so don't fucking lecture me about how my neighbours are unsavoury from south Korea. The club my coach ran and i still support is on a council estate. Many of the boxers I know live on council estates. You are all a bit weird let's be honest. Triggered, snowfkakes, bi-polar? You sound like teenagers not men.

There you go again, lecturing on don't speak about my country from yours but you have made
10,000 posts lecturing America. It's almost crazy. Do u really not see it or are you having a piss

Yeah "almost"

[Fenster]

I didn't put you down, miles. With the chance of an education and commitment any literal English speaker could do your job. They might not be as good as you, they might be better, but regardless they could do it.

You have an abnormal predisposition to be upset by people that don't regard you as a unique special snowflake.

True, there are hundreds of thousands of excellent and talented teachers out there and people can dedicate themselves to it if they want to. I do the best I can, but I have my flaws like anyone. You do the best you can.

I am a unique and precious snowflake, Fenster. We all are. That other man is just angry though.

I don't think Miles is judging anybody at all I think too much is being read into his comments

You don't think miles is judging people? You clearly wasn't following our discussion then because that's entirely what it was about.

He can speak for himself too, he doesn't need a wingman. When you say something it's down to you not anyone else. The same goes for Beanz, Lyle, me and every other person on this forum. I'm not in anyones bum-club/gang, i'm not right or left, liberal or conservative, pro/anti-Trump/Corbyn.

Depending on any particular subject I will disagree with people that I like/respect and at the same time think someone is a complete and utter wanker yet be in full agreement with them.

[Dia bando]

Today 75 buildings have so far failed there fire test it seems theses buildings are unsafe for human habitation truly I know people need a home but in fact how safe can you make a tower block.
The way the building went up in flames shit you dont stand much chance of getting out alive.

[Dia bando]

I didn't put you down, miles. With the chance of an education and commitment any literal English speaker could do your job. They might not be as good as you, they might be better, but regardless they could do it.

You have an abnormal predisposition to be upset by people that don't regard you as a unique special snowflake.

True, there are hundreds of thousands of excellent and talented teachers out there and people can dedicate themselves to it if they want to. I do the best I can, but I have my flaws like anyone. You do the best you can.

I am a unique and precious snowflake, Fenster. We all are. That other man is just angry though.

I don't think Miles is judging anybody at all I think too much is being read into his comments

You don't think miles is judging people? You clearly wasn't following our discussion then because that's entirely what it was about.

He can speak for himself too, he doesn't need a wingman. When you say something it's down to you not anyone else. The same goes for Beanz, Lyle, me and every other person on this forum. I'm not in anyones bum-club/gang, i'm not right or left, liberal or conservative, pro/anti-Trump/Corbyn.

Depending on any particular subject I will disagree with people that I like/respect and at the same time think someone is a complete and utter wanker yet be in full agreement with them.

Yes, I was judging the more nefarious elements found within council estates. You all know they exist. In America it is the ghetto, in the UK it is found in the council estate. I am not even sure why there is such a problem with me not wanting to be around the work shy, drug addicts or teenage mothers. I have never at any stage said that all people on housing estates are scum, or that they are all unemployed, or that they are all destined for failure or anything like that. Those were images conjured up by others. I merely stated that I don't like being around the bad people and I think most people would agree with that sentiment. Who threatens to stab a dog after trespassing through a garden and being barked at? Who likes drug dealers? Who wants a society that rewards teenage mothers yet makes it hard for sensible people don't have children straight away? Who wants hoodlums with nothing to do harrassing the public? It's not good, yet I am seemingly the bad guy to some because I criticise it. It's very strange.

Miles I agree with some of your points but mate I know many fine people on council estates,! mate do not forget your roots Mr Corbyn would be horrified with and your opinion lol.
Yes dead heads thick bastards etc nobody has the monopoly on theses people or were they live
I have meet plenty of bad people who really have nice house etc, which are not council house rats as some would call them.
Miles you are becoming a little bit of a snob nothing wrong in bettering yourself mate ! but remember dont have delusions of grandeur mate
Not everybody in society can aspire to your highs mate people are what they are not to our taste maybe whats the answer gas chambers.

[Fenster]

I'm not going through it all again

[Fenster]

I'm not going through it all again, miles.

And you wonder why people call each other a cunt. Why not? Anything else is a total waste of time.

Basically every debate on here consists of one person ranting about a group of people that piss them off, someone offers a different view, then a few dullards pop up to offer support to whomever their pal is without offering anything to the actual topic, then a whole bunch of boring ad hominem occurs.

No-one ever admits they were wrong or accepts someone has made a valid counter-point, no, it's just defend, defend, defend, defend until they convince themselves they're the poor persecuted "victim," they're being unfairly picked on for having an opinion.

Poor little ole me, all I said is ******, all I meant was ******, I never said all ******.

MAN UP!!! Cunts!!! Rotters!!!

[Beanz]

I would admit I was wrong if I thought I was, but I think most people would agree that having ruffians in the area makes it more difficult for everyone to live a decent life. Morrissey didn't write Rusholme Ruffians about making daisies in a field.

Dia, I don't think it is that I am forgetting my roots. I think part of the trouble is I remember those days too well and it has always left a bad impression on me. I remember the roots too well. I think the good people on a council estate despair of having a football hit their car despite the no ball games signs and a park just down the road, of the neighbor who plays noisy techno and smokes weed when they could just buy a pair of headphones, of the thug who gets young girls pregnant, all of that. It's not particularly snobbish to not want to be around it. I'm just an ordinary quiet bloke who likes that adult life is nothing like life as a kid.

Miles you sound like a character in a sketch show. Paul Whitehouse and Harry Enfield would have a field day

[TitoFan]

Some people have one group of "dullards" that comes to their defense...... other people have another group. The forum mirrors life, and is no different than any other debate in any other forum, and spills out into real life. So what else is new. However, some people ARE capable of admitting they're wrong about a certain point.... some people ARE capable of modifying their position, if shown the error of their thought process.... again..... just like real life. People given to being drama queens will continue to do so. People given to sit on an imaginary throne will continue to do so. Again.... what else is new. People who are prone to being intimidated by strong opinions and those who express them will continue to be intimidated, even in a forum. C'est la vie. Move on.