A little Secret

[StrictlySP]

Hi Chris and Thomas,
Hmmm, interesting thoughts...

Let me clarify something before I proceed to make sure there are no misunderstandings. When I stated that there was no fight-functional value to the pad drilling Mayweather was doing with his uncle, I was strictly referring to the "no-look" (i.e. looking-at-the-camera only) pad work he was doing. I still stand by what I wrote, Floyd was simply showing off. I believe there was/is no fight-functional value to what he was doing in terms of actual boxing.

As far as all the attributes you believe were being worked on/honed through this flashy display on the pads, well, I think you've "read" and over-analyzed far too much into what Floyd was doing. Now, as a "tie-breaker" so to speak, I spoke with two pro trainers, one of them being the venerable Freddie Roach who, I think we can all agree on, is one of the best professional boxing trainers in the game right now.

I called and informed Freddie about our online discussion. After attentively listening to me delineate both sides, Freddie unequivocally stated that the pad work Floyd was doing with his uncle, as showcased in the "Mayweather vs Hatton 24/7" HBO series, (NOT ONLY when he was showing off and looking at the camera, which is what I was focusing on and refuting BUT also when he appeared serious and was looking at his uncle) has absolutely no relevance to actual boxing in the ring. He said that it was nothing but a pitty-pat display of patty cake on the pads. He said it was showboating through and through.

My other, not so well-known boxing trainer friend concurred with Freddie stating it was all showboating AND that it was a rehearsed act to boot.

While I believe Floyd's flashy pad work with uncle Roger was showboating all the way, I didn't think it was necessarily rehearsed but based on Floyd and Roger "knowing each other" after years of training together, in this case working the pads together exclusively. So, I also asked Freddie for his opinion on this. Was it was rehearsed or freelanced? Well, Freddie didn't think it was rehearsed per se either but rather a routine honed through being accustomed to and in-synch with one another (that being Floyd and Roger) through years and years of working the pads together.

So, I guess there is only one thing we agree on with this, we disagree...

By the way, Thomas, I do agree with you on another thing--Hopkins and Richardson's pad work. Now, that's real pad work. It's among the best I've ever seen too.

Anyway, take care and Happy New Year!

Best Regards,
Lito

[Scrap]

I would have thought Freddie would been more open minded and aware just goes to show Ill ask him next time I see him.

[Andre]

I think it is all corriagraphed. I doubt he could do it blindfolded for any length of time as he doesn't maintain contact or the centre line, it looks rehearsed or maybe more ingrained.
There has to be benifits even if its just for perenial vision practice as he looks at the camera smiling.
I dont think theres much to what he is doing either but I think there could be if we could get a hood over his head and see how far he can go then.The instant changes in his arms reaching for both the pads and what he did next with his body angle through his feet to gain the upper hand would be very interesting.

[Chris Nagel]

I guess that after all you're right SP. You could say it is pre-programmed, as they've probably gone through the same drill countless times before. Then again with the way that they go through the pad work there is only so much variation possible. At least it's good practice to keep Floyd's defense sharp.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I feel we all may be reading too deeply into this. What we see of Mayweather on the pads is a very limited presentation of his entire padwork session. All we see is one combination and it's variations.

I feel the reason he uses the pads as he does is merely to practice "punch perfection" getting the arms straight and hitting accurately.

I've tried doing the pads like that for 2 weelks and my punches were a lot straighter and more accurate and I became more aware of where my arms should be.

[Andre]

Yeah I been trying to head it into what could be, more than what is.
Oh well...

[donnydarkoIRL]

Yeah I been trying to head it into what could be, more than what is.
Oh well...

Well I could well be wrong.
And if we don't have anybody thikning of possablities, concepts and ideas then we won't develop will we.

[Scrap]

The funny thing is They are probably not aware of what the technique is actually doing but it does now I find that interesting. Now with the eyes shut and the pad man changeing distance working on touch thats going to make anybody faster, and have better technique through feel.

[Sharla]

I don't really think I have the base of knowledge in the field to completely understand everything you're saying here Scrap. I won't discount something I don't even understand.

One thing I was thinking about which your 'touch and feel' phrase made me think of is the way you sort of feel best hitting a pad hard proportionally to how hard it's thrown at you. For example if I don't have enough force or correct timing with a punch hitting the pad and it's thrown hard at me I might feel a bit of jarring. If I aim to king hit a pad held by someone half my weight, when their not ready for it - it'll feel wrong too.

I guess it might make you instinctively predict the flow of the pad holder. This should be possible if they're not stopping and starting a lot, don't double up with one pad and are maintaining some momentum. Sort of like if you're on the bag and you throw four solid punches maybe you know the fourth is going to have more power than the others.

I'm guessing this instinct could be good to havefor the purpose of being able to know when the hard hits are coming if you're in a position where maybe you're behind your guard or trapped in a way which doesn't let you see as easily. Or just to speed up your reflexes even when you can?

Anyway that's my extremely uneducated theory - does it make any sense?

[Scrap]

Sharla all it is is a form of Prerocreation dont think I spelt that right. Remember the one leg thing with the eyes shut thats a form of working speed through reflex action doing pads with a change of distance while youve got your eyes shut just a matter of changing at a 6 inch distance will make your reflexes improve Plus technique feel will get better

[Sharla]

Well CC Scrap and thanks for reading my theory - so if it's adjusting distance then it's your response to the distance you feel - not the power of the pads to set yourself up for the next shot? I guess that's a lot more useful than what I had guessed. You obviously understand this to a deeper level than I will for a while but it's good to have a bit of mental stimulation

[Scrap]

Sharla when I was Boxing I didnt understand it. But when I took the job as a coach, I made it my responsabilty to find out. You never stop learning, Theres two things that have kept me going a good memory, and Ive forgot the other thing

[Sharla]

CC Scrap there's hope for me yet

[greynotsoold]

Way back in the 90s Ringside did a promo tape on "Working the Mitts", and Roger Mayweather was featured in this tape. What he was doing, and this was not with PBF, was remarkable. He was teaching, through his mitt work, things like "centerline" of the body in punching , balance, and defense, especially the "pull-counter" which his nephew uses so effectively. You can use the mitts, just like you can use the heavy bag, the speed bag, and the jump rope, to make a fighter look like something he is not. You can also use them to make a fighter into something he might not have been otherwise.
I don't know if this is relevant but...Let me get a double end bag working with my jab and I'll hit it all day with my eyes closed. Better than I can with them wide open, since the vision in my right eye got so bad.
Last, Freddie Roach is the best trainer today only by the standard of money earned and only because there are so few trainers worth speaking of these days. Name one single fighter- no sorry, one beyond Pacquiao- that he has improved. Name ONE that he has developed. I watched him work in Phoenix, and I've spent many, many hours in his gym in Hollywood, and I don't get it. Take some time and total up his flops and failures...he doesn't do much for a fighter except give them a "name" in theior corner and take a bigger piece of the purse. Which puts him in the class of Steward and Clancy and Dundee, et. al.

[Chris Nagel]

Good post Joe. I've been wondering for some time what was on that Ringside tape showing Roger and you answered some of my questions here in your post.