Douglas manhandles Tyson

[ross]

The great fiction of this fight is that Douglas got a "long count." First off, ref's counts are rarely ten seconds, they are instead ten counts. Second the fighter's job is to follow the ref's count, whatever it is. Third, Buster pretty clearly could have gotten up 6-7 seconds (by a clock) after he got dropped. Lastly, the Douglas count was 14 seconds. But guess what Tyson's count was? The same 14 seconds.

As for Tyson not being "mentally prepared?" As irrelevant as Dempsey's mental condition before Tunney, Ray Leonard's before Duran or Robinson's before Turpin. Part of the game. The guy who handles the outside pressures better as an edge.

Still shocking to see.

In amateur boxing the count is based on seconds. When a fighter gets dropped the time keeper starts a timer, the ref looks to the timekeeper to get where the count is and carries it on. I think youll find it is supposed to be actually 10 seconds, otherwise whats stopping Steven Hawkins becoming a tef and giving a 2 minute 10 count

Its all to do with incompetant refs or a time keeper not doing his job.

Then throughout history we've had incompetent refs. Most counts are actually 13-14 seconds. It is what it is.

Yep, well the difference is, in amateur boxing, you have a fair sport, where rules are adhered to and fights are fair with evenly matched opponents. Where as professional boxing is a business. Rounds are won based on who the judge "thinks" looked better and everything is interpratation, the refs interpratation of the rules like allowing some fighters to hold and not doing the count properly and again, the judges interpratation of what deems a fighter the winner of a round.

If Ward were fighting another pro but with amateur judges and ref, first, he wouldnt win many rounds, or not as many as he does and second, he wouldnt get away with all that holding and mauling. Hed be warned, have points deducted and made to actually fight.

Alot of refs and judges are in promoters pockets and get treated very well, when in town to work a fight.

[marbleheadmaui]

The great fiction of this fight is that Douglas got a "long count." First off, ref's counts are rarely ten seconds, they are instead ten counts. Second the fighter's job is to follow the ref's count, whatever it is. Third, Buster pretty clearly could have gotten up 6-7 seconds (by a clock) after he got dropped. Lastly, the Douglas count was 14 seconds. But guess what Tyson's count was? The same 14 seconds.

As for Tyson not being "mentally prepared?" As irrelevant as Dempsey's mental condition before Tunney, Ray Leonard's before Duran or Robinson's before Turpin. Part of the game. The guy who handles the outside pressures better as an edge.

Still shocking to see.

In amateur boxing the count is based on seconds. When a fighter gets dropped the time keeper starts a timer, the ref looks to the timekeeper to get where the count is and carries it on. I think youll find it is supposed to be actually 10 seconds, otherwise whats stopping Steven Hawkins becoming a tef and giving a 2 minute 10 count

Its all to do with incompetant refs or a time keeper not doing his job.

Then throughout history we've had incompetent refs. Most counts are actually 13-14 seconds. It is what it is.

Yep, well the difference is, in amateur boxing, you have a fair sport, where rules are adhered to and fights are fair with evenly matched opponents. Where as professional boxing is a business. Rounds are won based on who the judge "thinks" looked better and everything is interpratation, the refs interpratation of the rules like allowing some fighters to hold and not doing the count properly and again, the judges interpratation of what deems a fighter the winner of a round.

If Ward were fighting another pro but with amateur judges and ref, first, he wouldnt win many rounds, or not as many as he does and second, he wouldnt get away with all that holding and mauling. Hed be warned, have points deducted and made to actually fight.

Alot of refs and judges are in promoters pockets and get treated very well, when in town to work a fight.

Amateur boxing is nearly a joke with the current scoring system. Body shots basically don't count and neither does most infighting. The idea that you think old men with electreonic buttons eliminates the subjectivity of judging is also pretty funny.

But since Douglas-Tyson wasn't an amteur match? Entirely irrelevant.

[JazMerkin]

The great fiction of this fight is that Douglas got a "long count." First off, ref's counts are rarely ten seconds, they are instead ten counts. Second the fighter's job is to follow the ref's count, whatever it is. Third, Buster pretty clearly could have gotten up 6-7 seconds (by a clock) after he got dropped. Lastly, the Douglas count was 14 seconds. But guess what Tyson's count was? The same 14 seconds.

As for Tyson not being "mentally prepared?" As irrelevant as Dempsey's mental condition before Tunney, Ray Leonard's before Duran or Robinson's before Turpin. Part of the game. The guy who handles the outside pressures better as an edge.

Still shocking to see.

In amateur boxing the count is based on seconds. When a fighter gets dropped the time keeper starts a timer, the ref looks to the timekeeper to get where the count is and carries it on. I think youll find it is supposed to be actually 10 seconds, otherwise whats stopping Steven Hawkins becoming a tef and giving a 2 minute 10 count

Its all to do with incompetant refs or a time keeper not doing his job.

This happens in the pros exactly the same.

Yep, well the difference is, in amateur boxing, you have a fair sport, where rules are adhered to and fights are fair with evenly matched opponents. Where as professional boxing is a business. Rounds are won based on who the judge "thinks" looked better and everything is interpratation, the refs interpratation of the rules like allowing some fighters to hold and not doing the count properly and again, the judges interpratation of what deems a fighter the winner of a round.

If Ward were fighting another pro but with amateur judges and ref, first, he wouldnt win many rounds, or not as many as he does and second, he wouldnt get away with all that holding and mauling. Hed be warned, have points deducted and made to actually fight.

Alot of refs and judges are in promoters pockets and get treated very well, when in town to work a fight.

The part in bold I agree with. The rest I don't. Scoring is subjective as well in the ams, I'm either on or at shows regularly & not one goes past without at least one or two dodgy scorecards. Like the pros this normally gets overruled by the other two, but you see whole shows where the home boys get the benefits & you see it all the way up to the ABA finals where the boys on the GB Squad get beneficial scoring. Ward is a terrible example, he was a truly exceptional amateur. He's just learned to take advantage of the pros.

[ross]

Amateur boxing is nearly a joke with the current scoring system. Body shots basically don't count and neither does most infighting. The idea that you think old men with electreonic buttons eliminates the subjectivity of judging is also pretty funny.

im a training judge and just recently I scored a 4 rounder where one lad was being outboxed something silly in the first 2 but his opponent started to tire and let him back with body shots which eventually wan him the fight. The bouts arent sored by rounds but the punches from each round totalled at the end, so someone who lost the first 2 rounds but put puts an effort on in the third can win. You would have less arguing on close fights in the pros because you have something everyone can actually count. Amateur boxing is scored by each scoring punch being a point. Body shots count and as long as they are thrown with force and land on the scoring area and not outside of it they will score.

The great fiction of this fight is that Douglas got a "long count." First off, ref's counts are rarely ten seconds, they are instead ten counts. Second the fighter's job is to follow the ref's count, whatever it is. Third, Buster pretty clearly could have gotten up 6-7 seconds (by a clock) after he got dropped. Lastly, the Douglas count was 14 seconds. But guess what Tyson's count was? The same 14 seconds.

As for Tyson not being "mentally prepared?" As irrelevant as Dempsey's mental condition before Tunney, Ray Leonard's before Duran or Robinson's before Turpin. Part of the game. The guy who handles the outside pressures better as an edge.

Still shocking to see.

In amateur boxing the count is based on seconds. When a fighter gets dropped the time keeper starts a timer, the ref looks to the timekeeper to get where the count is and carries it on. I think youll find it is supposed to be actually 10 seconds, otherwise whats stopping Steven Hawkins becoming a tef and giving a 2 minute 10 count

Its all to do with incompetant refs or a time keeper not doing his job.

This happens in the pros exactly the same.

Yep, well the difference is, in amateur boxing, you have a fair sport, where rules are adhered to and fights are fair with evenly matched opponents. Where as professional boxing is a business. Rounds are won based on who the judge "thinks" looked better and everything is interpratation, the refs interpratation of the rules like allowing some fighters to hold and not doing the count properly and again, the judges interpratation of what deems a fighter the winner of a round.

If Ward were fighting another pro but with amateur judges and ref, first, he wouldnt win many rounds, or not as many as he does and second, he wouldnt get away with all that holding and mauling. Hed be warned, have points deducted and made to actually fight.

Alot of refs and judges are in promoters pockets and get treated very well, when in town to work a fight.

The part in bold I agree with. The rest I don't. Scoring is subjective as well in the ams, I'm either on or at shows regularly & not one goes past without at least one or two dodgy scorecards. Like the pros this normally gets overruled by the other two, but you see whole shows where the home boys get the benefits & you see it all the way up to the ABA finals where the boys on the GB Squad get beneficial scoring. Ward is a terrible example, he was a truly exceptional amateur. He's just learned to take advantage of the pros.

No it isnt. Like I just said above, its about landed blows. If you dont know how to score an amateur fight and you are watching one as a boxing fan, you will tend to look at it as though you are watching a pro fight. Next one you go to, actually take some clicker counters like the judges have and actually click on each scored punch. A punch thrown with force that lands on the scoring area by the knuckle part of the glove and you will be surprised at how few scoring punches actually land.

The electronic buttons thing is for championships. In small shows its just a clicker counter in each hand, one dedicated to each boxer.