Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?

[holmcall]

Kahn-Diaz would be interesting but one thing I am positive about. If Kahn butts him and cuts him, the fight will quickly go in his favor. Diaz has problems with blood. It's his Achilles Heel.

Also, Kahn's advatage in dimensions of 5′ 10″ - 178cm vs. 5′ 6″ - 168cm and his reach would hamper the short Diaz.

I'd go with Kahn but I'd get me some nice odds.

[holmcall]

Diaz done? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......

The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...

He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.

I really couldn't disagree more. Campbell beat him, no doubt, but it was a close fight early on and it (much like the JMM fight) has the potential to be one of those losses in which a young fighter learns and benefits more from it than he would a victory. Katsidis couldn't land anything of significance on Diaz, he was totally outclassed and the judge who scored the fight for the Aussie should have been immediately dragged behind the arena and summarily executed.

Diaz is 25 years old, and with Marquez and Campbell moving up is still the best lightweight in the world. He gave Marquez all kind of problems in their fight, most people had him sweeping the early rounds and he clearly hurt Marquez a couple of times. That's the same Marquez who is widely considered on par with the best fighter in the world.

I'm not even a huge Diaz fan, I was cheering against him in each of his last three fights (though he really won me over with his performance against Marquez).

I geniunely believe that if he had serious power he would one day be a fixture in the top 5 p4p.

To say he is on the slide is ridiuclous, he's been beating by one great fighter (Who Campbell?) and stopped by one all time great fighter (who he was neck and neck with until the stoppage). Khan, who I like, has been badly hurt numerous times and was brutally knocked out (it was a one-puncher. Clean but nothing particularly brutal about it) against a mediocre but undefeated fighter with overrated power( KO% 85.71). Juan Diaz would absolutely ruin Khan.

Uh Oh. What kind of odd$ would you give me on Kahn-Diaz?

[CFH]

He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.

I really couldn't disagree more. Campbell beat him, no doubt, but it was a close fight early on and it (much like the JMM fight) has the potential to be one of those losses in which a young fighter learns and benefits more from it than he would a victory. Katsidis couldn't land anything of significance on Diaz, he was totally outclassed and the judge who scored the fight for the Aussie should have been immediately dragged behind the arena and summarily executed.

Diaz is 25 years old, and with Marquez and Campbell moving up is still the best lightweight in the world. He gave Marquez all kind of problems in their fight, most people had him sweeping the early rounds and he clearly hurt Marquez a couple of times. That's the same Marquez who is widely considered on par with the best fighter in the world.

I'm not even a huge Diaz fan, I was cheering against him in each of his last three fights (though he really won me over with his performance against Marquez).

I geniunely believe that if he had serious power he would one day be a fixture in the top 5 p4p.

To say he is on the slide is ridiuclous, he's been beating by one great fighter (Who Campbell?) and stopped by one all time great fighter (who he was neck and neck with until the stoppage). Khan, who I like, has been badly hurt numerous times and was brutally knocked out (it was a one-puncher. Clean but nothing particularly brutal about it) against a mediocre but undefeated fighter with overrated power( KO% 85.71). Juan Diaz would absolutely ruin Khan.

Uh Oh. What kind of odd$ would you give me on Kahn-Diaz?

I don't have time right now to use fancy colors to make my points so I'll just address them in point form.

-I think Campbell is a great fighter, he just didn't get his due until very late in his career. However, I can understand someone who would say he's a very good fighter and not a great one. That's fine, he's still 10x better than anyone Khan has ever faced.

-I thought the Prescott KO was pretty bad for Khan, he was badly hurt. "Brutal" may been a bit of hyperbole, but it was a bad knock out.

-Regardless of Prescotts KO% (which is far from uncommon with Colombia fighters), in his last fight he landed many flush shots against a gimme opponent who had been knocked out four times previously.

[Gandalf]

I do dislike Khan now. Having read Khan's comments about the fight, he shows himself as a jumped up, gobby little shit and totally lacking in any class. Apparently he would have "brutally" knocked out Barerra within 2 or 3 rounds! He was given a gift scalp, he probably doesn't see that though. Prick!!

[holmcall]

And Your Odds Are.......?

[holmcall]

I do dislike Khan now. Having read Khan's comments about the fight, he shows himself as a jumped up, gobby little shit and totally lacking in any class. Apparently he would have "brutally" knocked out Barerra within 2 or 3 rounds! He was given a gift scalp, he probably doesn't see that though. Prick!!

Any links to his nasty behavior? I know what gobshit means but what does GOBBY" mean?

[Gandalf]

I do dislike Khan now. Having read Khan's comments about the fight, he shows himself as a jumped up, gobby little shit and totally lacking in any class. Apparently he would have "brutally" knocked out Barerra within 2 or 3 rounds! He was given a gift scalp, he probably doesn't see that though. Prick!!

Any links to his nasty behavior? I know what gobshit means but what does GOBBY" mean?

Gobby is someone with a big mouth. Not nasty behaviour here, but arrogant and totally missing the point that he beat someone with an axe wound to the head and who was unable to see properly.

BBC SPORT | Boxing | Khan set for title fight in 2009

[Kev]

I really couldn't disagree more. Campbell beat him, no doubt, but it was a close fight early on and it (much like the JMM fight) has the potential to be one of those losses in which a young fighter learns and benefits more from it than he would a victory. Katsidis couldn't land anything of significance on Diaz, he was totally outclassed and the judge who scored the fight for the Aussie should have been immediately dragged behind the arena and summarily executed.

Diaz is 25 years old, and with Marquez and Campbell moving up is still the best lightweight in the world. He gave Marquez all kind of problems in their fight, most people had him sweeping the early rounds and he clearly hurt Marquez a couple of times. That's the same Marquez who is widely considered on par with the best fighter in the world.

I'm not even a huge Diaz fan, I was cheering against him in each of his last three fights (though he really won me over with his performance against Marquez).

I geniunely believe that if he had serious power he would one day be a fixture in the top 5 p4p.

To say he is on the slide is ridiuclous, he's been beating by one great fighter and stopped by one all time great fighter (who he was neck and neck with until the stoppage). Khan, who I like, has been badly hurt numerous times and was brutally knocked out against a mediocre fighter with overrated power. Juan Diaz would absolutely ruin Khan.

I think Diaz vs Khan is a great fight. I don't think either fighter is a shoe in to dominate the other.

Both are great fighters with some tremendous assets and both have weaknesses.

I have to be honest I think Khan could pull it off. Diaz is a relentless puncher but he's not a big puncher, Khan's problem will be when he gets caught by huge shots and Diaz can't do that.

When you look at the size of Amir and his speed, plus his improved defense I really don't think Diaz would find it easy to get inside and unload his combinations.

Khan is exceptionally fast, as is Diaz but Khan is much bigger and has a longer reach. If he keeps Diaz on the end of it and gets his punches off (and Diaz certainly gets hit) I think there's as much chance of Khan stopping Diaz as the other way around.

It's also entirely possible that we have seen the best of Juan Diaz. When a fight gets systematically broken down the blueprint for their demise is already laid out. Against a strong, tough, big punching fighter Diaz is always going to be defeated from now on imo, just like Zab Judah, Edison Miranda, Fernando Vargas etc.

I wouldn't put Khan in with him yet, I'd give him Murray and Katsidis first but if he gets through those fights I think if they did meet Khan would start the betting favourite.

Let's remember that Diaz only fights at lightweight because he's a chunky little fucker after all. If he got into shape he'd probably be fighting at featherweight.

Diaz is far from a murderous puncher, but he can punch a bit. Khan has been hurt by fighters who hit with less power than Diaz. Until Khan proves a fuck of a lot more than he already has, I'll take Diaz every day of the week. Diaz is a relentless fighter with good speed, underrated defense, and a solid chin.

You say the blueprint has been layed out, but Cambell and Marquez beat him two different ways. Campbell stood inside with Diaz, punished his body and bullyed him. Marquez ate a ton of leather while counter-punching. They both hammered his body, but that's hardly a blueprint. Those are two of the best fighters in the world and they're far superior to anyone currently at lightweight.

Khan might beat Diaz, he's got all the physical tools, but until he proves he can properly utilize then against opponents who are of the same class as Diaz, I will heavily favor Diaz.

Campbell was just a veteran pro at the time he beat up Juan Diaz. A Khan win over Diaz would be far less of an upset imo. Campbell had lost every time he had stepped up in class prior to that against, Casamayor, Pedan twice, Lorenzo and Hlathsawyo he certainly wasn't considered one of the best in the world.

A great win for the old man to beat the younger undefeated fighter but if he can pull it off Khan is certainly capable.

Look at the trouble Campbell had with Funeka, had anyone even heard of him before he stopped Raheem? We really don't know if Funeka is all that good, aside from Campbell and Raheem I don't recognise anybody on his record and its worth pointing out that Funeka struggled to outpoint Yakubu Amida (I'm just going off boxrec and the judges scores here, never saw the fight) and even Ricky Burns knocked him out and he hits softer than Malignaggi.

All I'm saying is those who think Amir is miles away from being world class are misleaded imo. In my opinion he's right up there. He's absolutely on the level of Juan Diaz and Nate Campbell it's just a matter of whether Freddie can work on his defense and keep that chin protected.

Just answer me this honestly, if Khan doesn't get hit and stopped by Campbell and Diaz, does he still lose?

If you agree that if his chin (or defense) could stand up to the task that he would have a great chance of winning those fights then you cannot just dismiss his chances of winning as if they'd outclass him.

There's a very real chance that a quality world class fighter lands and knocks him out, I agree with that completely, but there's equally a very good chance that between Amir and Freddie they can come up with a plan to protect that chin (just like Wlad and Emmanuel) and that he can go on to be a dominant and outstanding fighter.

[CFH]

And Your Odds Are.......?

No need to get condescending man, I'm just trying to have a discussion here.

As for odds, I have no idea. The closest I come to betting on sports is playing Killersheeps sportsbook. Going by that, I would probably have Khan at a 1.5 payoff or something like that, but I really have no idea.

[CFH]

I think Diaz vs Khan is a great fight. I don't think either fighter is a shoe in to dominate the other.

Both are great fighters with some tremendous assets and both have weaknesses.

I have to be honest I think Khan could pull it off. Diaz is a relentless puncher but he's not a big puncher, Khan's problem will be when he gets caught by huge shots and Diaz can't do that.

When you look at the size of Amir and his speed, plus his improved defense I really don't think Diaz would find it easy to get inside and unload his combinations.

Khan is exceptionally fast, as is Diaz but Khan is much bigger and has a longer reach. If he keeps Diaz on the end of it and gets his punches off (and Diaz certainly gets hit) I think there's as much chance of Khan stopping Diaz as the other way around.

It's also entirely possible that we have seen the best of Juan Diaz. When a fight gets systematically broken down the blueprint for their demise is already laid out. Against a strong, tough, big punching fighter Diaz is always going to be defeated from now on imo, just like Zab Judah, Edison Miranda, Fernando Vargas etc.

I wouldn't put Khan in with him yet, I'd give him Murray and Katsidis first but if he gets through those fights I think if they did meet Khan would start the betting favourite.

Let's remember that Diaz only fights at lightweight because he's a chunky little fucker after all. If he got into shape he'd probably be fighting at featherweight.

Diaz is far from a murderous puncher, but he can punch a bit. Khan has been hurt by fighters who hit with less power than Diaz. Until Khan proves a fuck of a lot more than he already has, I'll take Diaz every day of the week. Diaz is a relentless fighter with good speed, underrated defense, and a solid chin.

You say the blueprint has been layed out, but Cambell and Marquez beat him two different ways. Campbell stood inside with Diaz, punished his body and bullyed him. Marquez ate a ton of leather while counter-punching. They both hammered his body, but that's hardly a blueprint. Those are two of the best fighters in the world and they're far superior to anyone currently at lightweight.

Khan might beat Diaz, he's got all the physical tools, but until he proves he can properly utilize then against opponents who are of the same class as Diaz, I will heavily favor Diaz.

Campbell was just a veteran pro at the time he beat up Juan Diaz. A Khan win over Diaz would be far less of an upset imo. Campbell had lost every time he had stepped up in class prior to that against, Casamayor, Pedan twice, Lorenzo and Hlathsawyo he certainly wasn't considered one of the best in the world.

A great win for the old man to beat the younger undefeated fighter but if he can pull it off Khan is certainly capable.

Look at the trouble Campbell had with Funeka, had anyone even heard of him before he stopped Raheem? We really don't know if Funeka is all that good, aside from Campbell and Raheem I don't recognise anybody on his record and its worth pointing out that Funeka struggled to outpoint Yakubu Amida (I'm just going off boxrec and the judges scores here, never saw the fight) and even Ricky Burns knocked him out and he hits softer than Malignaggi.

Campbell was more than just a veteran pro at the time. He was a very good, if underrated fighter. Peden had his number, no doubt, but the Casamayor fight was a close one, and the Hlatshwayo and Lorenzo losses were SD's as well.

How many of those fights have you seen? I've only seen the Casa one so that's the only one I can really comment on (and admittedly it was a shitty quality vid), and it was a pretty close affair against a prime Casamayor, there's no shame in losing that fight. The others ones I can't really comment on because I haven't seen them. However, going by the record (which is a perilous thing to do), he's only ever been soundly beating by Casamayor and Peden.

All I'm saying is those who think Amir is miles away from being world class are misleaded imo. In my opinion he's right up there. He's absolutely on the level of Juan Diaz and Nate Campbell it's just a matter of whether Freddie can work on his defense and keep that chin protected.

Shown me where I said Khan was nowhere near world class. I said he hasn't proven anything, because he hasn't. He's been hurt numerous times by lesser fighters and he's yet to fight a decent opponent. Which is not his fault, he's still very much a prospect, but I reiterate that he hasn't proven a thing. I like Khan just because so many people dislike him, he's got most of the tools, minus a solid chin, but potential is just that, potential.

Just answer me this honestly, if Khan doesn't get hit and stopped by Campbell and Diaz, does he still lose?

Assuming Khan has a Margarito-like cast iron chin, he beats both of them. With a cast-iron chin and some experience, he has p4p potential. However, when discussion his chances in a fight, his chin must be part of the equasion.

If you agree that if his chin (or defense) could stand up to the task that he would have a great chance of winning those fights then you cannot just dismiss his chances of winning as if they'd outclass him.

There's a very real chance that a quality world class fighter lands and knocks him out, I agree with that completely, but there's equally a very good chance that between Amir and Freddie they can come up with a plan to protect that chin (just like Wlad and Emmanuel) and that he can go on to be a dominant and outstanding fighter.

Again, until he steps up his opposition (Barrera was a decent start) and proves himself - and that he can take a solid punch, I will side with a Diaz or a Campbell against him, simple as that. It's not a shot again Khan, but as of right now, he has a questions surrouding his defense and a suspect chin. That's a dangerous combination.

[holmcall]

Diaz is far from a murderous puncher, but he can punch a bit. Khan has been hurt by fighters who hit with less power than Diaz. Until Khan proves a fuck of a lot more than he already has, I'll take Diaz every day of the week. Diaz is a relentless fighter with good speed, underrated defense, and a solid chin.

You say the blueprint has been layed out, but Cambell and Marquez beat him two different ways. Campbell stood inside with Diaz, punished his body and bullyed him. Marquez ate a ton of leather while counter-punching. They both hammered his body, but that's hardly a blueprint. Those are two of the best fighters in the world and they're far superior to anyone currently at lightweight.

Khan might beat Diaz, he's got all the physical tools, but until he proves he can properly utilize then against opponents who are of the same class as Diaz, I will heavily favor Diaz.

Campbell was just a veteran pro at the time he beat up Juan Diaz. A Khan win over Diaz would be far less of an upset imo. Campbell had lost every time he had stepped up in class prior to that against, Casamayor, Pedan twice, Lorenzo and Hlathsawyo he certainly wasn't considered one of the best in the world.

A great win for the old man to beat the younger undefeated fighter but if he can pull it off Khan is certainly capable.

Look at the trouble Campbell had with Funeka, had anyone even heard of him before he stopped Raheem? We really don't know if Funeka is all that good, aside from Campbell and Raheem I don't recognise anybody on his record and its worth pointing out that Funeka struggled to outpoint Yakubu Amida (I'm just going off boxrec and the judges scores here, never saw the fight) and even Ricky Burns knocked him out and he hits softer than Malignaggi.

Campbell was more than just a veteran pro at the time. He was a very good, if underrated fighter. Peden had his number, no doubt, but the Casamayor fight was a close one, and the Hlatshwayo and Lorenzo losses were SD's as well.

How many of those fights have you seen? I've only seen the Casa one so that's the only one I can really comment on (and admittedly it was a shitty quality vid), and it was a pretty close affair against a prime Casamayor, there's no shame in losing that fight. The others ones I can't really comment on because I haven't seen them. However, going by the record (which is a perilous thing to do), he's only ever been soundly beating by Casamayor and Peden.



Shown me where I said Khan was nowhere near world class. I said he hasn't proven anything, because he hasn't. He's been hurt numerous times by lesser fighters and he's yet to fight a decent opponent. Which is not his fault, he's still very much a prospect, but I reiterate that he hasn't proven a thing. I like Khan just because so many people dislike him, he's got most of the tools, minus a solid chin, but potential is just that, potential.

Just answer me this honestly, if Khan doesn't get hit and stopped by Campbell and Diaz, does he still lose?

Assuming Khan has a Margarito-like cast iron chin, he beats both of them. With a cast-iron chin and some experience, he has p4p potential. However, when discussion his chances in a fight, his chin must be part of the equasion.

If you agree that if his chin (or defense) could stand up to the task that he would have a great chance of winning those fights then you cannot just dismiss his chances of winning as if they'd outclass him.

There's a very real chance that a quality world class fighter lands and knocks him out, I agree with that completely, but there's equally a very good chance that between Amir and Freddie they can come up with a plan to protect that chin (just like Wlad and Emmanuel) and that he can go on to be a dominant and outstanding fighter.

Again, until he steps up his opposition (Barrera was a decent start) and proves himself - and that he can take a solid punch, I will side with a Diaz or a Campbell against him, simple as that. It's not a shot again Khan, but as of right now, he has a questions surrouding his defense and a suspect chin. That's a dangerous combination.

Fair enough. Good exchange.

[holmcall]

I do dislike Khan now. Having read Khan's comments about the fight, he shows himself as a jumped up, gobby little shit and totally lacking in any class. Apparently he would have "brutally" knocked out Barerra within 2 or 3 rounds! He was given a gift scalp, he probably doesn't see that though. Prick!!

Any links to his nasty behavior? I know what gobshit means but what does GOBBY" mean?

Gobby is someone with a big mouth. Not nasty behaviour here, but arrogant and totally missing the point that he beat someone with an axe wound to the head and who was unable to see properly.

BBC SPORT | Boxing | Khan set for title fight in 2009

Thanks for that.

[JazMerkin]

Any links to his nasty behavior? I know what gobshit means but what does GOBBY" mean?

Gobby is someone with a big mouth. Not nasty behaviour here, but arrogant and totally missing the point that he beat someone with an axe wound to the head and who was unable to see properly.

BBC SPORT | Boxing | Khan set for title fight in 2009

Thanks for that.

As I pointed out to Miles in a different thread, much of what they say Khan said there has been vastly misquoted. I've actually seen the press conference now, and the BBC have taken a lot of journalistic license there with Khan's words. I think how the media have covered the aftermath has been outrageous from all angles.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

I read in the Guardian that Barrera's old cut opened up.....if so the man has an amazing hair line

[Gandalf]

I read in the Guardian that Barrera's old cut opened up.....if so the man has an amazing hair line

The people writing these articles really have no business talking about a sport they clearly know so little about. The media coverage has been appalling.