If pac beats pbf is there nothing more to prove for him?

[BigLuke]

If pac beats floyd and i believe he will, he will be top 5 all time imo. To say that he would just be top 20 all time is ridiculous. Pac will have nothing more to prove. He could retire , be a legend, and probably become president of the phillipines. I would hate to see him quit though when he is still so freakin good, but it would be nice to see him quit on top of the world.

[knodaledge]

so how can we be sure that he is that good? naz showed alot of skills but it wasnt enough when he got raped by mab.

Really? You're telling me that you don't know how good Mayweather is?

He was supposed to lose to Corrales but he destroyed him. He fought a very close fight with Castillo the first time with an injury and dominated him the second time around. He embarrassed Gatti, not beat, embarrassed. He beat De La Hoya when they fought at Oscar's weight.

Mayweather has rarely been hit flush, but he not only beats his opponents, he makes them look really bad.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this. If you honestly think Mayweather isn't one of the most skilled ever, then you need to go back and watch his fights again.

I criticize Floyd for what he's done at welterweight, but before then, he had one hell of a career.

no man you dont get it, i myself think that pbf will school pac. i know how good he is but alot of people think that pbf picks his opponents, he always have the upper hand. i still think he dances too much in the ring and is overall a boring boxer, but defense wise he is a genius.

again, an average boxer will look really good against a weak boxer. so how can we be certain that pbf is really that good when he hasnt fought the best? atleast in pacs case he beat dlh and hatton way better than pbf he fought cotto which is bigger as compared with pbf fighting a small guy in marquez.

do you get it now

No, he's right. I understand what you're attempting to say, but ultimately it holds no weight. Neither does the fact that Pac beat the same guys "way better" than Mayweather.

He's talking about overall skill level. If you can't see that, based upon just overall skill, Mayweather is one of, if not the best, boxer of our generation then you're hating. I ain't accusing you of such, but theres no other reason why one could see the skill Mayweather shows and still believe there are questions yet to be answered.

The "picks his opponents" thing only works for recent fights, although I dont buy it myself. What about all that he did at his lighter weights? 130 especially.

I would understand if Mayweather eeked by with victories but he totally outclasses his opponents. Even makes them look foolish. There is no way a "questionable" boxer could do that.

Your Naz comparison is false also. Everyone knew after the Kelly fight that Naz had holes in his arsenal. Hell, even Pacquiao has holes in his arsenal. Mayweather has never shown any holes in his arsenal and he's been in there with some of the greats.

You either admit, skill wise, he's one of the GOATS by now or you'll never ever believe it no matter what he does.

[Dizaster]

Really? You're telling me that you don't know how good Mayweather is?

He was supposed to lose to Corrales but he destroyed him. He fought a very close fight with Castillo the first time with an injury and dominated him the second time around. He embarrassed Gatti, not beat, embarrassed. He beat De La Hoya when they fought at Oscar's weight.

Mayweather has rarely been hit flush, but he not only beats his opponents, he makes them look really bad.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this. If you honestly think Mayweather isn't one of the most skilled ever, then you need to go back and watch his fights again.

I criticize Floyd for what he's done at welterweight, but before then, he had one hell of a career.

no man you dont get it, i myself think that pbf will school pac. i know how good he is but alot of people think that pbf picks his opponents, he always have the upper hand. i still think he dances too much in the ring and is overall a boring boxer, but defense wise he is a genius.

again, an average boxer will look really good against a weak boxer. so how can we be certain that pbf is really that good when he hasnt fought the best? atleast in pacs case he beat dlh and hatton way better than pbf he fought cotto which is bigger as compared with pbf fighting a small guy in marquez.

do you get it now

No, he's right. I understand what you're attempting to say, but ultimately it holds no weight. Neither does the fact that Pac beat the same guys "way better" than Mayweather.

He's talking about overall skill level. If you can't see that, based upon just overall skill, Mayweather is one of, if not the best, boxer of our generation then you're hating. I ain't accusing you of such, but theres no other reason why one could see the skill Mayweather shows and still believe there are questions yet to be answered.

The "picks his opponents" thing only works for recent fights, although I dont buy it myself. What about all that he did at his lighter weights? 130 especially.

I would understand if Mayweather eeked by with victories but he totally outclasses his opponents. Even makes them look foolish. There is no way a "questionable" boxer could do that.

Your Naz comparison is false also. Everyone knew after the Kelly fight that Naz had holes in his arsenal. Hell, even Pacquiao has holes in his arsenal. Mayweather has never shown any holes in his arsenal and he's been in there with some of the greats.

You either admit, skill wise, he's one of the GOATS by now or you'll never ever believe it no matter what he does.

What he said..

[BIG H]

In relation to a few posts earlier about Margarito's wraps. How can anybody think he didn't have dodgy wraps against Cotto. Cotto was the biggest fight of his career, why would he use dodgy wraps against Mosely, but not Cotto? Especially bearing in mind he beat Cotto? So he beats Cotto fair and square and then tampers with his wraps to fight Mosely who beat Cotto Look at Cotto's face, did his face look like that after the Pc fight? No!

Margarito is a cheat and should be banned for life!

[TheBranMan]

If pac beats floyd and i believe he will, he will be top 5 all time imo. To say that he would just be top 20 all time is ridiculous. Pac will have nothing more to prove. He could retire , be a legend, and probably become president of the phillipines. I would hate to see him quit though when he is still so freakin good, but it would be nice to see him quit on top of the world.

Saying top 20 is definitely not ridiculous, that's still a great honor. There have been amazing careers of the past. You are obviously not schooled in boxing history. If he beat Marquez just once convincingly, beat Floyd, beat the winner of Mosley/Berto, and did it in spectacular form or showing great heart, then maybe I'd call him top 5. Until then, names like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, etc, belong ahead of Pacquiao. That's not to say Pacquiao isn't great, he obviously is. To have your name even mentioned in relation to those names is a great accomplishment.

[BigLuke]

If pac beats floyd and i believe he will, he will be top 5 all time imo. To say that he would just be top 20 all time is ridiculous. Pac will have nothing more to prove. He could retire , be a legend, and probably become president of the phillipines. I would hate to see him quit though when he is still so freakin good, but it would be nice to see him quit on top of the world.

Saying top 20 is definitely not ridiculous, that's still a great honor. There have been amazing careers of the past. You are obviously not schooled in boxing history. If he beat Marquez just once convincingly, beat Floyd, beat the winner of Mosley/Berto, and did it in spectacular form or showing great heart, then maybe I'd call him top 5. Until then, names like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, etc, belong ahead of Pacquiao. That's not to say Pacquiao isn't great, he obviously is. To have your name even mentioned in relation to those names is a great accomplishment.

Actually I am schooled in boxing history and it is my opinion that Pac-Man should be top 5 if he wins this bout and ahead of several of the names that you mentioned.

[osncoll_0716]

all this will only prove that pacquiao is the best fighter in the 2000's that's all! it will get him to about number 20 p4p all-time but not any higher! still a great accomplishment!

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

[TheBranMan]

If pac beats floyd and i believe he will, he will be top 5 all time imo. To say that he would just be top 20 all time is ridiculous. Pac will have nothing more to prove. He could retire , be a legend, and probably become president of the phillipines. I would hate to see him quit though when he is still so freakin good, but it would be nice to see him quit on top of the world.

Saying top 20 is definitely not ridiculous, that's still a great honor. There have been amazing careers of the past. You are obviously not schooled in boxing history. If he beat Marquez just once convincingly, beat Floyd, beat the winner of Mosley/Berto, and did it in spectacular form or showing great heart, then maybe I'd call him top 5. Until then, names like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, etc, belong ahead of Pacquiao. That's not to say Pacquiao isn't great, he obviously is. To have your name even mentioned in relation to those names is a great accomplishment.

Actually I am schooled in boxing history and it is my opinion that Pac-Man should be top 5 if he wins this bout and ahead of several of the names that you mentioned.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

[brucelee]

Saying top 20 is definitely not ridiculous, that's still a great honor. There have been amazing careers of the past. You are obviously not schooled in boxing history. If he beat Marquez just once convincingly, beat Floyd, beat the winner of Mosley/Berto, and did it in spectacular form or showing great heart, then maybe I'd call him top 5. Until then, names like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, etc, belong ahead of Pacquiao. That's not to say Pacquiao isn't great, he obviously is. To have your name even mentioned in relation to those names is a great accomplishment.

Actually I am schooled in boxing history and it is my opinion that Pac-Man should be top 5 if he wins this bout and ahead of several of the names that you mentioned.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

[knodaledge]

Actually I am schooled in boxing history and it is my opinion that Pac-Man should be top 5 if he wins this bout and ahead of several of the names that you mentioned.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

But Cotto would've had to pay 1 million for every pound in excess of 145. Without punishment, it was capped at 145.

Just stating facts. It means nothing to me. I give Pacquiao all the credit in the world for beating Cotto just like I give all the credit in the world to Mayweather for beating Marquez.

[TheBranMan]

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.


That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

But Cotto would've had to pay 1 million for every pound in excess of 145. Without punishment, it was capped at 145.

Just stating facts. It means nothing to me. I give Pacquiao all the credit in the world for beating Cotto just like I give all the credit in the world to Mayweather for beating Marquez.

Well said knodaledge.

..and brucelee, I can understand how I come off as a Pac-hater, however I just happen to be a Cotto and Floyd fan. Everything I say against Pac has merit and I believe in it. If Pac wins (unquestionably) on March 13th, I'll become a Pac fan, shit I might even get the tattoo. I won't proclaim he's greater than Ali, Duran, Leonard, etc (like some fanboys are doing), but I will have a positive realistic view of an absolutely great fighter... the thing is... it won't happen come March 13

EDIT: ..That being said though, while I really like the smiling Filipino (I jumped for joy when he got that spectacular KO against Hatton), I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't like Roach's personality at all. Yes, he obviously knows how to train fighters, but he's the loudmouth, arrogant, trouble-starting voice of negativity in the Pacquiao camp. Again, if Pac beats Floyd, he gains a fan in me, although I think he would be on the same road with or without Roach (assuming he had any other top trainer).

[brucelee]

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.


That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

But Cotto would've had to pay 1 million for every pound in excess of 145. Without punishment, it was capped at 145.

Just stating facts. It means nothing to me. I give Pacquiao all the credit in the world for beating Cotto just like I give all the credit in the world to Mayweather for beating Marquez.

Mayweather came at a weight higher than the contracted weight against Marquez. They continued the fight. He paid the necessary fine for violating their private contract.

Cotto is an intelligent fighter. As such, he could have done it also rather than risk his chance of winning that very important fight. He decided to come at 145 because he knows he can still fight very well at that weight.

I presume that you have seen the fight. Did Cotto, in anyway, show signs that he was having problem with his weight? I guess many will agree with me that he was not dehydrated and was at his peak during the fight.

Rather than discrediting what Pac had done at that weight, why can't you for one moment give credit to Pac for still carrying his punching power and speed @ 145. Pac was still fighting at 130 last year and he jumped 3 weight divisions in just a span of 1 year. Isn't it amazing enough for you?

Without being bias, do you think it's fair/okay for any superfeatherweight to fight a certified welter at 147 without putting a great deal of risk to his life?

Marquez, whom many thinks is as good as Pacquiao, contracted a fight against PBF @ 143. Do you honestly think it's unfair to Mayweather?

[TheBranMan]

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

But Cotto would've had to pay 1 million for every pound in excess of 145. Without punishment, it was capped at 145.

Just stating facts. It means nothing to me. I give Pacquiao all the credit in the world for beating Cotto just like I give all the credit in the world to Mayweather for beating Marquez.

Mayweather came at a weight higher than the contracted weight against Marquez. They continued the fight. He paid the necessary fine for violating their private contract.

Cotto is an intelligent fighter. As such, he could have done it also rather than risk his chance of winning that very important fight. He decided to come at 145 because he knows he can still fight very well at that weight.

I presume that you have seen the fight. Did Cotto, in anyway, show signs that he was having problem with his weight? I guess many will agree with me that he was not dehydrated and was at his peak during the fight.

Rather than discrediting what Pac had done at that weight, why can't you for one moment give credit to Pac for still carrying his punching power and speed @ 145. Pac was still fighting at 130 last year and he jumped 3 weight divisions in just a span of 1 year. Isn't it amazing enough for you?

Without being bias, do you think it's fair/okay for any superfeatherweight to fight a certified welter at 147 without putting a great deal of risk to his life?

Marquez, whom many thinks is as good as Pacquiao, contracted a fight against PBF @ 143. Do you honestly think it's unfair to Mayweather?

Calm down, no one is discrediting Pacquiao's skills. He had great power and speed at the mannyweight of 145. All he's saying is that the fight may have been closer and more competitive if it was fought at 147 (like most ww title fights).

BTW, Mayweather vs Marquez was contracted for 144lbs, (not 143) and Mayweather was only bound to pay $300,000 for every pound he was over the limit. Cotto was forced to pay $1 mil for every pound. Do you honestly think the big Puerto Rican would pay $2 mil to come in at 147? ...and again, to calm your nerves, no I'm not saying that it definitely made any difference in the outcome of the fight, we can never know.

[JonesJrMayweather]

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's not the same thing...Point is they made sure cotto would not come in at 147 the real limit. In doing this, it limits how much weight cotto would have added overnight.

Roy moved up to HW and fought Ruiz for his belt without saying anything about weight. And if you want to say natural weight, Jones natural weight is around 168. He also started his career AT 154...Even still he didnt ask Ruiz to drop ANY WEIGHT...

[JonesJrMayweather]

In relation to a few posts earlier about Margarito's wraps. How can anybody think he didn't have dodgy wraps against Cotto. Cotto was the biggest fight of his career, why would he use dodgy wraps against Mosely, but not Cotto? Especially bearing in mind he beat Cotto? So he beats Cotto fair and square and then tampers with his wraps to fight Mosely who beat Cotto Look at Cotto's face, did his face look like that after the Pc fight? No!

Margarito is a cheat and should be banned for life!

LEt's entertain this logic...Who has the better chin, even before any of them fought each other, who historically had the better chin? Mosley or Cotto? Easy and obvious answer, MOSLEY. Say what they will about how Cotto eeked out that decision. He ran the last quarter of the fight, I only say ran because Cotto had never resorted to that tactic. He was known for breaking his opponents will and wearing them down, he was gassed and couldnt hurt shane. That was the evidence for some people on this forum to pick Margarito over him citing that there was no way he was going to be able to get away from a longer Margarito once he started to retreat. Which turned out to be exactly that.

No as far as his facial damage , Judah busted him pretty good but nowhere near what Margo did to him because he didnt land nearly as much. Another point about why PACMAN didnt do as much damage. Cotto was running from round 8 to 12 and still he suffered a lot of damage. Plus Magarito is much bigger man than Pacman. Had Cotto stood and tried to trade with manny like did Margarito he would have looked like ground beef.

Its funny that people ignore the fact that the so called wraps where supposedly in his gloves not his head. He walked through all of Cotto's shots and kept coming thus breaking Miguel's will. Not to mention a terrible tactic for Cotto who had never been a fighter to be on his toes for 12 rounds circling. A stupid tactic to pull off for the first in a such a mega fight. Cotto lost fair and square and still to this day none of margarito's fight have been overturned as there is no evidence. Plus people have stuffed shit into their ears when fighters like Clottey say "Well he didnt use them against me"...