Angel Adams, 37 yrs old with 15 kids and complaining about lack of gov't assistance

[El Kabong]

No, I disagree with you on practically everything you say.

Well isn't that new and different

Miles here's the deal, you say "Charity can't solve all of society's ills" however you are of the belief that government CAN? Why because it is backed by force of law? Has government made things better or worse for society? If you look at what the welfare state alone has done to African-American families then I would argue that government has done more harm than good, whatever intentions LBJ et al had for welfare programs their system has made things much worse for a lot of people it is so bad it has demolished the very institution of family life among African-Americans which has lead to more crime, more prison, more people on the dole, more babies having babies, and an entitlement mentality that has grown out of control.

I'm of the opinion that the more government tries to do the worse things get

[VictorCharlie]

I find your views on tipping to be mildly absurd and perhaps it is you that is
ignorant of the norms of other countries

One of us has never been to the US and one of us has lived here most of their lives, worked as a server and run a service business but its me whose views on a tip vs wage based salary in the US is absurd? I love you Miles. You bring great comedic relief to my day. We aren't talking about other countries. We are talking about the US. It is a superior system and all parties in the US approve of it. Mind your own business. It should also be noted that in the event that an employee makes less than minimum wage after tips that the employer must make up the difference.

Actually, one thing I am getting sick of is you branding around words like bigot in every thread. Yes, I am very much opposed to your political and military system, but people are just people. Some of my favourite people are American, but they don't get defensive or nationalistic and accept the faults. 'Oh, but you are from overseas and cannot comment'. On the whole I try to stay clean with you when it would be all too easy to attack your contradictions which are all too obvious and yet in every post you are using inflammatory language. I expect it of someone like Lyle, but I thought we were on more
neutral ground.

Miles, you are insulting in just about every response to me. I'm brainwashed, disgusting, my education is poor, I'm a loser b/c of my profession, I couldn't do anything else and on and on. You consistently post about the US despite never being there and proven time and again to not be well informed on it. Your postings about the US are close minded, lack objectivity and regularly results in personal attacks on people that ACTUALLY live and know the country. So yes I find your internet persona somewhat bigoted. If that hurts your feelings then tough.

Rather than respond to views that are clearly odd with an insult or 4 thrown
in for good measure, I will not respond.

Sure, just like your multiple "I'm leaving Saddos threads".

[El Kabong]

So yes I find your internet persona somewhat bigoted. If that hurts your feelings then tough.

When pray tell, has miles EVER concerned himself with the feelings of anyone he argues with? I mean if he DID concern himself with the feelings of others he certainly wouldn't personally attack other members of this site...let's be honest, I'm no angel I dish out a lot but I take my fair share of heat. I'm the only poster here with a fucking webstalker who will routinely sign up just to make 1 vile post about me and have his account deleted. But shit, I have a conscience, I feel bad when I am merciless in ripping someone apart when they didn't deserve it or earn it...I do. I have never seen that from miles, never ever. I have seen him navel gaze, and sulk, and whine about how nobody understands him like he's some 14 year old emo girl, but I haven't seen him say "You know what, calling VC a baby killer or a murderer was probably well over the line"....maybe he has, but he always comes back to calling those names.


miles, do you feel you're above reproach here? Do you feel that us mere mortals are somehow beneath you? You teach English in South Korea a place that wouldn't exist if not for the American Armed Forces....get over yourself

[Gandalf]

That is a very distorted and dishonest post, Lyle. This is why I think you are the biggest problem with this site. You have NEVER apologised for your random verbal assaults and are a coward. You randomly jump in when you think it is a good time to do so. You are a chicken with an agenda and it is personal.
I cannot reason with daft nationalists.

It has been observed by others too that I am on the end of more abuse than anyone here so it isnt just me. In your case it is very personal and you have an agenda to make me leave. You will say that nobody likes me, nobody should hear my opinion, denigrate my honest craft, use the vilest language etc.

Again you take issue with my work. Why? Reveal your work and lets compare notes. The military is too easy with its ready supply of tax payers money and known history.

I wont interact with you anymore either. You in particular are someone who should probably be banned. You get away things just because I am the target.

[VictorCharlie]

To channel Kirkland

[Gandalf]

TBH, I don't really have any problems with you, VC. I would just like you to not label me a bigot in every thread. I don't hate American people and it is something I get tired of defending myself against. You get the charge again and again, and yet considering all the revelations and degradation of recent years politically, it has been pretty much the only fall back on for some as much of what I have been saying about the bigger picture has been proven correct. On this welfare issue, we clearly disagree, but that is no problem. We are ideologically quite different. I prefer cultures where tipping is not needed and I prefer cultures that offer a competitive basic wage for their workers. It doesn't mean I am a bigot for disagreeing with the American model, it just means I disagree with that model.

The person who does bother me is, Lyle. He parades himself around beyond all bounds. In Klitschko threads he is being absurd and all the while insulting posters left right and centre. He will throw around horrid insults to people on the main boards calling them weird things like 'panty stains', how the Klits would 'bitchslap' posters who criticise the fight. He turns public threads personal with all kinds of savage personal attacks, he jumps into threads randomly just to insult you. All the while he will say that nobody likes you or wants to hear anything you say. And yet he isn't talking about himself?

He will say things like 'you are beyond all redemption'. I mean really, what have I ever done to anybody to deserve that kind of accusation? It makes me sound like Jack the sodding Ripper. And then he will throw around lies such as I can never apologise? It just isn't true as you know and others know. Walrus is a recent case in point and he received a PM in which I said sorry for being rude to him in an attack that was actually instigated by Lyle. Now where are Lyle's apologies for his arrogance, conceitedness and rudeness?

I get on with everyone here. I can be prickly and I do have my points of view, but you don't see me having to put up with this nonsense from other posters to such a degree. Lyle will constantly denigrate my line of work which is work that requires a great deal of experience and study to do well. It has become an obsession with him. I would love to see him come out here and do what I do, to survive in a different culture, to do the work well despite its obvious difficulties. Oh, you are just an English teacher...well, what the heck are you then? I'm giving young adults skills to help them in the workplace, what are you giving people?

Lyle gets a free pass to be as outrageous as he likes and to say what he wants to anyone and I am usually the target. Now if he said the stuff he says to Missy, he would be banned, but because I am an opinionated person, he can say what he wants. Everytime I log in I have to grimace at yet more insults? Most of the time he plays the dawn chorus just to snipe and be a tosser.

There is nothing wrong with having opinions, but does it have to get personal and insulting all the time? And it is all the time.

[IamInuit]

New proof that evolution is a fact.

[Gandalf]

It's also interesting that over half of the people in the fast food industry need the state to allow them to live. Now it would make more sense to make sure that the corporations pay a living wage rather than have the taxpayer take the hit. Otherwise, McDonalds investors do well and the government is paying out money that it shouldn't need to be paying if only corporations were behaving ethically. It's the public who pay when the profits should simply be reduced.

More than Half of Fast Food Workers Rely on Welfare

[El Kabong]

Fast food jobs are for unskilled teenagers....yeah let's pay them $30 to flip burgers



Miles for a guy who has "nothing against VC" why would you constantly attack him? You have said the most hateful things about him.

[Gandalf]

No, they don't deserve 30 dollars an hour, but enough to pay the bills, rent, and put food on the table. Otherwise, those jobs just shouldn't exist and people need burgers and corporations can manage by paying labour what they deserve.

What passes between me and VC is just that too. It is none of your business and I think VC is testament to my ability to say sorry after crossing the line. You on the other hand never do so. You cannot get much more nasty than to say one 'has no redeemable qualities' and have a repeated variation of that time and time again. Now I don't have a whole lot of time for dead soldiers in Iraq, I make no bones about that. They shouldn't have been there. That is how I feel about wars based on lies, I think VC now admits Iraq was a mistake too. To say one one has no redeemable qualities for the relatively benign life choices that I make is a bit extreme. You try to paint me with the same rhetoric as would be used with a serial killer or something, when all I am is a member of this online community. This is my home as much as yours, so please don't paint me with the same kind of rhetoric as the kind of war criminal revealed by Wikileaks.

To constantly attack my work in thread after thread when it has nothing to do with the threads at hand is extremely weak too. As I say, I have worked bloody hard to get an education and do what I do. I don't like it to be sniffed at. Me being an educator has nothing to do with being a private man with strong political views. You have them too, should all people with political views join the government assistance crowd? Should we just quit and become a hippy and an isolationist following our respective unemployed paths? I'm good at what I do, and maybe you are good at whatever you do, but we still have those tangents that are not part of the mainstream. That's who we are.

In response to you, I do become extremely harsh myself and I know that. I know I can be exasperating, but you are another side of the same coin. It's annoying because I don't particularly want to be at constant odds with you, but you keep jumping into threads like the Syria one and seemingly for no other reason than an attempt to annoy me. It escalates and then we are at war again. It's like the Middle East.

[El Kabong]

No, they don't deserve 30 dollars an hour, but enough to pay the bills, rent, and put food on the table. Otherwise, those jobs just shouldn't exist and people need burgers and corporations can manage by paying labour what they deserve.

What passes between me and VC is just that too. It is none of your business and I think VC is testament to my ability to say sorry after crossing the line. You on the other hand never do so. You cannot get much more nasty than to say one 'has no redeemable qualities' and have a repeated variation of that time and time again. Now I don't have a whole lot of time for dead soldiers in Iraq, I make no bones about that. They shouldn't have been there. That is how I feel about wars based on lies, I think VC now admits Iraq was a mistake too. To say one one has no redeemable qualities for the relatively benign life choices that I make is a bit extreme. You try to paint me with the same rhetoric as would be used with a serial killer or something, when all I am is a member of this online community. This is my home as much as yours, so please don't paint me with the same kind of rhetoric as the kind of war criminal revealed by Wikileaks.

To constantly attack my work in thread after thread when it has nothing to do with the threads at hand is extremely weak too. As I say, I have worked bloody hard to get an education and do what I do. I don't like it to be sniffed at. Me being an educator has nothing to do with being a private man with strong political views. You have them too, should all people with political views join the government assistance crowd? Should we just quit and become a hippy and an isolationist following our respective unemployed paths? I'm good at what I do, and maybe you are good at whatever you do, but we still have those tangents that are not part of the mainstream. That's who we are.

In response to you, I do become extremely harsh myself and I know that. I know I can be exasperating, but you are another side of the same coin. It's annoying because I don't particularly want to be at constant odds with you, but you keep jumping into threads like the Syria one and seemingly for no other reason than an attempt to annoy me. It escalates and then we are at war again. It's like the Middle East.

Why does a teenager need to pay bills and rent? They will be living at home with mom & dad and buying bubble gum and baseball cards and apps on their phones not paying rent and bills.


Oh so what's between you & VC is just between you two, but what I say about anyone else is your business? Also have you ever apologized to VC? I mean you DID call him a murderer, does a simple "I'm sorry" fix that?

I use your work to bring you down to Earth. You act as if you're beyond reproach, as if you hover over humanity like a god as if we should admire your every single tedious thought. You're well educated enough, you have been known on occasion to make solid arguments, you can poke fun at yourself and fair play to all that, but when you get on your soapbox and flaunt your skewed views of America it irks me because you have no clue about America and you aren't even willing to learn.

So I should have no say in the Syria thread or only have no say if it conflicts with your views? You irk me when you use the alcohol thread to blather on about non-booze related crap.

[VictorCharlie]

I thought you weren't responding to me?

I would just like you to not label me a bigot in every thread. I don't hate
American people and it is something I get tired of defending myself against.

Miles, you clearly don't see how you come across in threads. You have NEVER been here and have almost NO understanding of what Americans are like, our culture, our economy, our government etc. That being said you wade into thread after thread with an uninformed opinion and a hypercritical attitude telling us Americans how terrible and jacked up we are and if only we were as enlightened as you. You ignore the factual information that is provided on the US and dismiss the people who actually live here. If it is about US foreign policy then my often times first hand accounts of things have no bearing b/c of my profession. If it is about domestic issues then due to my cultural brainwashing and inferior education I don't really understand and shouldn't be trusted. Bigotry is defined as 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed , belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. When it comes to your posts regarding the US I find this pretty spot on. If you don't like this adjective for your posts then maybe you should take a moment of introspection.

On this welfare issue, we clearly disagree, but that is no problem. We are
ideologically quite different. I prefer cultures where tipping is not needed and I prefer cultures that offer a competitive basic wage for their workers. It doesn't mean I am a bigot for disagreeing with the American model, it just means I disagree with that model.

Cultures don't provide comeptitive wages. Employers offer them to people with marketable skills. I prefer a culture that believes in voluntary exchange and not coercement.

[Gandalf]

Well, you are clearly not being reasonable.

Yes, I have apologised to Victor Charlie. Again, why should I tell you? VC has admitted the war was wrong too, so maybe my accusation that the Iraq war was wrong is also something he agrees with. We have our own rather curious ways, but on the whole he comes across as far less angry and bullying than you.

You use my line of work to bring me down to earth? Forgive me for not working in the NSA, or in the military, or as a CIA agent inciting revolution in Iran because they had the audacity to nationalise their own resources etc etc. Good national causes, Lyle! Much better than those English teachers. BTW, what was it, you do? Oh, top secret.

I know plenty about America. I read the same media that you all do and its a big country. On that basis, I know about America just as much as you do. However, I read better media and so probably know more.

[El Kabong]

Well, you are clearly not being reasonable.

That disregarding bullshit right there...THAT irks me. So because someone has a different point of view from you they're "unreasonable"? I fucking LIVE in America, I've lived here my entire life, and NO you don't know more about America because you "read better media"....I LIVE HERE and you have never set foot upon the soil of this country so yes your views on America are quite bigoted, you're willfully ignorant of what the United States is about.


You called VC a murderer...several times over....because of HIS occupation, so yeah I'll fucking call you out for being a teacher. I own a small business, I operate in the big scary "real world" the one where results are demanded. Also, I didn't see any apology to VC...where and when was this? And if the insult is public then the apology should be public too, it's only fair.


Whether or not the War in Iraq was "wrong" is erroneous, my view has always been that the war was going to happen regardless of who won the election between W and Gore (check YouTube for what the Liberals said about Saddam in 2000). It stemmed from the ending of the Persian Gulf War which did not see Saddam Hussein kicked out of power. Also, and I'm sorry if this offends you, but if my country is in a war I want us to WIN it is worthless and stupid to go to war just to do so. Win quickly, decisively, and with few casualties, that is what I want if there is to be war and there will be war, it's just how humans operate.

[Gandalf]

Fucking conceited, aggressive and arrogant. Doubly angry?

My relationship with VC is once again none of your concern. Again, I hate to break this to you, but teachers don't hurt anybody. Soldiers are trained to do so. I am not into any profession that is trained to follow orders and hurt people. Today it was estimated that half a million people died in Iraq. For a war that VC admits was a 'mistake'. Okay, I think that is a brilliant thing for VC to say on that issue. I apologised for my misdemeanor to him personally and he admitted that your country probably fucked up. It's fair enough. That story is done and dusted. Over. You however, keep going on about it as though VC is your pet parrot that I hit with a club. Get over it.

Also, of course you live in America. Do you really think I hate your country? Some of you, and I do say some, are lovely. But some are frankly just obnoxious, loud, and weird. However, you know nothing more about the majority of the states than I do, so deal with it. You live in North Carolina and know about your area the size of England, but you do not represent America. I imagine I have a lot more in common with people in the Eastern and Western states. In those places I am probably more American than you are politically and socially. Sad, but true. You are a bit of an oddball.

As for the war in Iraq. You lost the war, killed half a million, and are still defending it. That's why VC is a man, he can reflect somewhat. You follow it through to the end. Wlad, hugging is just! Global warming, hoax! Iraq, had to be done! Every single issue, just mad and extreme and to the end.