Why Manny can't beat Floyd

[Taeth]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

I've seen threads "Why Manny can't beat Oscar"? "Why Manny can't beat Hatton"? 'Why Manny can't beat Cotto" ? My question is can Floyd beat Manny? So many people on this forum have not believed in Pacquaio (including me) and yet he proves us wrong each time. Manny Pacquaio has the best chance yet of beating Floyd Mayweather, it will be a helluva fight and Floyd will have to be at the very top of his game to withstand the onslaught that he will be getting from Manny Pacquaio. I believe PBF to be the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, he will need all of this skill to hold off and beat Manny Pacquaio. If Manny hits him then things get really interesting.

I've seen the same threads for Mayweather who proved them wrong each time, and he fought a better Hatton and a better De La HOya and just like Pacquiao-Marquez their styles work way better against orthodox fighters. Hatton has always had troubles with southpaws and getting hit by the right hook coming in, which totally unravelled his game plan, and Oscar was shot. I still think what Manny did was incredible, but it wasn't the same guys that fought Mayweather. Oscar didn't throw any of his punches with any life behind them.

I dare anyone to try and tell me that the Oscar who fought Floyd wouldn't have given Manny all he could handle, or that the OScar who fought Manny would have done as well against Floyd at 147.

I am stating my opinion now and it will be proven when they face eachother. If Manny had a Joe Calzaghe's style with his power and speed then I think it would be a different story, but Joe throws a lot more punches and has better defensive instincts, and he forces you to back up if you are anything but an all out brawler.

[holmcall]

Test

[levi#1BoxingFan]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

First of all, Manny is a completley different fighter then when he fought Marquez! He filled into the weight change tremendously, he has the same blinding speed but more power not to mention his all around game has improved. (Two handed). Secondly, it seems awfully dangerous to put anything past Manny Pacquiao right now and thats including Floyd Mayweather! I can agree that Manny has never fought anyone as skilled as Mayweather, but Mayweather sure as heck has never faced an opponet like Pacquiao that has an all around game! Im not dissing Mayweathers opponets at all because he has beaten some great fighters, but who on his list can you think of that can even come close to what Pacquiao's doing right now? Pacquiao also has a HUGE heart to go along with all of his abilities and that many times can get you over any tricky obstacle that Floyd can throw at him just because of his sheer will to win!

[Taeth]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

First of all, Manny is a completley different fighter then when he fought Marquez! He filled into the weight change tremendously, he has the same blinding speed but more power not to mention his all around game has improved. (Two handed). Secondly, it seems awfully dangerous to put anything past Manny Pacquiao right now and thats including Floyd Mayweather! I can agree that Manny has never fought anyone as skilled as Mayweather, but Mayweather sure as heck has never faced an opponet like Pacquiao that has an all around game! Im not dissing Mayweathers opponets at all because he has beaten some great fighters, but who on his list can you think of that can even come close to what Pacquiao's doing right now? Pacquiao also has a HUGE heart to go along with all of his abilities and that many times can get you over any tricky obstacle that Floyd can throw at him just because of his sheer will to win!

Hopw has Pacquiao improved since Marquez II? Right after that fight he put on his best right hand performance against David Diaz. Mayweather has fougthen better all round fighters like Marquez and De La Hoya who can both brawl and box. Manny can box, but it still has a desperation factor to it that makes him far easier to hit.

[sillent killer]

What the hell you on about??

It's quite refreshing to see so called Pac fans saying Floyd will win, not saying he will win im still undecided but Floyd is the favourite imo.

Say my favourite fighter rite now is Matthew Hatton because im a huge fan do you think I would back him to beat Pac?

There's nothing refreshing about it... I'm cool with the 50/50 comment, and i'm cool with "it won't be easy at all to defeat a fighter like PBF"... But to say Manny "CAN'T" beat Floyd is ludicris... Thats the part i have a problem with especially for a "Pac Fan"..

Also, for you to even compare the likeliness of Matthew Hatton beating pac is equavalent to Pac Beating Floyd was wayyyyy off base.... i think i puked in my mouth a little...

Why is it ludicrous to think Pac cant beat Floyd??

Floyd is unbeaton fighter who is a great fighter, so cos you got ur head so far up Manny's arse it's ludicrous for anyone to think Pac cant beat probably the best fighter technically we have seen for the last fifthteen years??

I have my favourite fighters but that doesnt cloud my judgement when my fighter is possibly got his hands full im not going to say my man will win whoever he faces just because I get a bit of blood in the end of my penis everytime his name is mentioned!!!

The odds have Floyd a clear favourite will he win we dont know but with the guys skills there is every possibility he makes Pac look silly we will have to see.

Who did you pick to win Cotto or Pacman?

[sillent killer]

This is why because Floyd has pure boxing skills and look at Pacquiao vs Marquez remove the knockdowns and go just on the boxing Marquez won twice and same with Morales 1. Floyd is all wrong for Pacquiao he will win easy cos he is a far better boxer than either of them 2 Pacquiao has improved slightly in last 20 months since last Marquez fight but not much.

Are you the one who picked Cotto to destroy Pacman?

[sillent killer]

Being ranked higher on the ATG list isn't about being the better fighter, its about having the better legacy. Those aren't always the same thing. Joe Louis wouldn't beat Lennox Lewis if his life depended on it, but he's ranked way higher p4p.

Whitaker could beat most of the guys ranked higher than him p4p, but he's still ranked lower because of the lack of drama in his fights.

We constantly see great defensive fighters being ranked lower than great offensive fighters because they look less spectacular. That's why in the top 10 only two of them were considered truly defensive masters (Willie Pep and Benny Leonard), but Leonard had a punch as well. Some people could arguably put Jack Johnson in their top 10 p4p and he was defensive, but he was in a different league than the fighters of his time in every aspect.

All in all people are criticizing me of comparing Pacquiao-marquez to Mayweather-Marquez when I am not. I am comparing Marquez to Mayweather, and what Marquez did to Pacquiao, then seeing what a much better fighter would do in that same situation.

People are overreacting to what I am saying because all they are thinking with their hearts and not their heads, but remember I was the one who said size won't be enough for Hatton or Cotto to beat Pacquiao, I was the one saying Pacquiao could hurt Hatton or Cotto, and that it might be one sided. Now I didn't expect Pacquiao to take Cotto's punches quite as well as he did and I give him kudos for that, but all MAyweather needs to do is keep on landing, I don't think he will ever hurt Pacquiao badly, but Floyd wears a fighter's mind down.

You look at every fighter Mayweather faces, and you see the same thing, they get frustrated because they can't land they get picked apart, even if the punches aren't really hurting them.

Also I don't see why its so hard for people to think Mayweather would back of Manny or fight in the middle. Manny doesn't control the distance between the fighters like a Miguel Cotto or Oscar De La Hoya, all he cares about is having enough distance to get his punches off effectively, or out flurrying his opponent, but what happens when the guy he is facing lands first not only because he is just as fast, but also because he has better reach and straighter punches. Mayweather might not wobble Pacquiao, but if he tees off with his cross, Manny won't be in position to counter, just like against Marquez. Also if you are right in front of Manny with your hands up, he doesn't get the space to put a lot of power in his punches because he doesn't get that legendary body rotation into his left hand or right hook. That's why Cotto only got hurt and hit flush when he got reckless offensively. Either than that Manny was largely landing glancing blows or hitting Cotto on the gloves.

The fact of the matter is I've seen Pacquiao be most effective when he's coming forward or being somebody is recklessly trying to bombard him with pressure. He's been least effective(two fights with Marquez and 1st fight with Morales) when he is forced to box in the middle of the ring and that is because he can't load up that left cross, and he doesn't have a dominant jab, and most of all he doesn't have great defense which means quick accurate punchers hit him quite easily. I've seen Cotto, Marquez, and Morales outbox Pacquiao I think 2 of those fights (Morales and MArquez 1) weren't the modern version of Manny, but you can see the holes that still exist in the Cotto and MArquez 2 fight. It will just take a very special fighter to take advantage of those oppertunities, and be able to match Pacquiao unbelievable athletic gifts, and Mayweather fills all the quotas needed.

1. He's as fast as Manny.
2. Best counter puncher in the world
3. Hardest guy to hit in the world
4. Most accurate puncher in the world
5. Great chin
6. Stamina to match Manny's.
7. Arguably the greatest technical fighter ever.

Manny does have his own traits
1. Fast as anyone in the sport(except Berto)
2. Special knockout power.
3. great accuracy and ability to land multiple punches in a row.
4. A+ chin
5. underrated defensive skills.
6. amazing angles and foot movement.

I think this fight most reminds of in Football in the early 2000's when Patriot's were a much defensively oriented team, and Colts just couldn't get anything done offensively as good as they were, but Patriots were always able to do just enough to win those games.

I don't think Mayweather is a way better fighter than Pacquiao even if he beats Manny in an overwhelmingly decisive manner, but I think he is a little bit better and their styles match up really well for him.

Floyd lost to Castilo in first fight

[miron_lang]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

I've seen threads "Why Manny can't beat Oscar"? "Why Manny can't beat Hatton"? 'Why Manny can't beat Cotto" ? My question is can Floyd beat Manny? So many people on this forum have not believed in Pacquaio (including me) and yet he proves us wrong each time. Manny Pacquaio has the best chance yet of beating Floyd Mayweather, it will be a helluva fight and Floyd will have to be at the very top of his game to withstand the onslaught that he will be getting from Manny Pacquaio. I believe PBF to be the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, he will need all of this skill to hold off and beat Manny Pacquaio. If Manny hits him then things get really interesting.

I've seen the same threads for Mayweather who proved them wrong each time, and he fought a better Hatton and a better De La HOya and just like Pacquiao-Marquez their styles work way better against orthodox fighters. Hatton has always had troubles with southpaws and getting hit by the right hook coming in, which totally unravelled his game plan, and Oscar was shot. I still think what Manny did was incredible, but it wasn't the same guys that fought Mayweather. Oscar didn't throw any of his punches with any life behind them.

I dare anyone to try and tell me that the Oscar who fought Floyd wouldn't have given Manny all he could handle, or that the OScar who fought Manny would have done as well against Floyd at 147.

I am stating my opinion now and it will be proven when they face eachother. If Manny had a Joe Calzaghe's style with his power and speed then I think it would be a different story, but Joe throws a lot more punches and has better defensive instincts, and he forces you to back up if you are anything but an all out brawler.

Im not so sure about the actual numbers but do you have a punch stat to back that up?

[Rantcatrat]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

I've seen threads "Why Manny can't beat Oscar"? "Why Manny can't beat Hatton"? 'Why Manny can't beat Cotto" ? My question is can Floyd beat Manny? So many people on this forum have not believed in Pacquaio (including me) and yet he proves us wrong each time. Manny Pacquaio has the best chance yet of beating Floyd Mayweather, it will be a helluva fight and Floyd will have to be at the very top of his game to withstand the onslaught that he will be getting from Manny Pacquaio. I believe PBF to be the best defensive fighter i have ever seen, he will need all of this skill to hold off and beat Manny Pacquaio. If Manny hits him then things get really interesting.

I've seen the same threads for Mayweather who proved them wrong each time, and he fought a better Hatton and a better De La HOya and just like Pacquiao-Marquez their styles work way better against orthodox fighters. Hatton has always had troubles with southpaws and getting hit by the right hook coming in, which totally unravelled his game plan, and Oscar was shot. I still think what Manny did was incredible, but it wasn't the same guys that fought Mayweather. Oscar didn't throw any of his punches with any life behind them.

I dare anyone to try and tell me that the Oscar who fought Floyd wouldn't have given Manny all he could handle, or that the OScar who fought Manny would have done as well against Floyd at 147.

I am stating my opinion now and it will be proven when they face eachother. If Manny had a Joe Calzaghe's style with his power and speed then I think it would be a different story, but Joe throws a lot more punches and has better defensive instincts, and he forces you to back up if you are anything but an all out brawler.

There hasn't been a thread doubting Mayweather in a very long time. I can't remember myself picking against him in a very long time at least since he has been at 147.

Hatton fought Pacquiao at 140 and he fought Floyd at Floyd's weight of 147. He had never lost at 140. He had been close to losing at 147 in his fight with Collazo. Clearly Hatton wasn't as effective at 147 as he was at 140. Saying Hatton isn't good against southpaws isn't Manny's fault. And regardless, Manny dispatched Hatton in much more convincing fashion than Floyd did at 147. Same goes for Oscar. Sure, Oscar at 147 was a different fighter and much less effective than Oscar 154. And that it is why it is approrpiate that Manny utterly distroyed him at 147 and Floyd had took a split decision win over him at 154. What I'm trying to say is that it sort of evens out.

Regardless, let me ask you this question, Taeth, what will impress you more, Manny beating Floyd or Floyd beating Manny? Said differently, who has more to gain from a win or more to lose from a defeat?