American confederate flag

[mrbig1]

This is a bullshit issue. You can take down the flag tomorrow but people will still be poor. Bankers will still be stealing money from the poor working class. So the media instead of talking about these problems. Are saying hey look over here see this flag. We fall for this bullshit every fucking time.

[Kirkland Laing]

Alrighty


#1 Slaves states fought FOR the Union....were they self loathing slave states?

#2 Slave states exempted from the Emancipation Proclamation: Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky, Delaware, Tennessee, and West Virginia. Why on Earth if slavery was such a blight on the nation AND reason for a horrible and destructive war, why would states be EXEMPTED from freeing slaves?

#3 Civil War 4/12/1861 to 6/22/1865....during which time period the Emancipation Proclamation occurred 1/1/1863...fighting continued...after the treaty was signed at Appomattox slavery was still in force. December 18, 1865 is when William H. Seward announced the adoption of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution. So the Civil War started and ended before slavery was abolished.

But....but....

A couple of posts previously you were claiming :

January 1, 1863 the Emancipation freed 100% of the slaves in Confederate states, in 1864 Confederate states themselves were abandoning slavery.....in 1865 the Union banned slavery.

And I'm saying that wasn't the case. So again you're making my argument for me. Well done Woti.

[Kirkland Laing]

Anybody who still thinks the Confederate states didn't start the civil war over slavery :

The Confederate Cause in the Words of Its Leaders - The Atlantic


And anybody who thinks white supremacy ended in the south in 1865 or that discrimination against black people ended in America even by 1965 read this, even if you just read the first bit about Clyde Ross.

The Case for Reparations - The Atlantic

[El Kabong]

The war lasted until 1865 begging the question: If the slaves were already free in the South then why keep fighting

Also the overwhelming majority of Confederacy did NOT own slaves....so what were THOSE people fighting for?

....oh and don't bother responding I'll NOT debate the War Between The States with a fucking fool such as yourself, CUNT!

[Beanflicker]

Imagine if we they had a Civil War rematch, the South would win 1st round knockout. The North has gotten soft with their restrictive gun laws!

[Kirkland Laing]

The war lasted until 1865 begging the question: If the slaves were already free in the South then why keep fighting

Also the overwhelming majority of Confederacy did NOT own slaves....so what were THOSE people fighting for?

....oh and don't bother responding I'll NOT debate the War Between The States with a fucking fool such as yourself, CUNT!

There were still slaves in the Confederate states until 1865.

Ans while the majority of people fighting for the Confederate cause didn't own slaves themselves slaves were the main engine of the southern economy. It's like a coal mine in Kentucky or a military base in some town. All the businesses around the mine/base make their money from the people working at the mine/base. Close the mine and the local economy collapses. End slavery and the southern economy collapses, as the Confederate states themselves admitted in their declarations of secession.

All those people were fighting for their livelihoods Lyle. When they lost the war their economy did collapse and it still hasn't recovered.


A major finding of the research into the economic dynamics of the slave system was to demonstrate that the rise in the value of slaves was not based upon unfounded speculation. Slave labor was the foundation of a prosperous economic system in the South. To illustrate just how important slaves were to that prosperity, Gerald Gunderson (1974) estimated what fraction of the income of a white person living in the South of 1860 was derived from the earnings of slaves. Table 1 presents Gunderson’s estimates. In the seven states where most of the cotton was grown, almost one-half the population were slaves, and they accounted for 31 percent of white people’s income; for all 11 Confederate States, slaves represented 38 percent of the population and contributed 23 percent of whites’ income. Small wonder that Southerners — even those who did not own slaves — viewed any attempt by the federal government to limit the rights of slaveowners over their property as a potentially catastrophic threat to their entire economic system. By itself, the South’s economic investment in slavery could easily explain the willingness of Southerners to risk war when faced with what they viewed as a serious threat to their “peculiar institution” after the electoral victories of the Republican Party and President Abraham Lincoln the fall of 1860.


https://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-econ...the-civil-war/

[X]

Just to add some petrol to the fire .....

'Islamic State cake' prompts apology from Walmart - BBC News

[Master]

Everyone knows the confederates were led by vampires and Lincoln was the hero.

[TitoFan]

Just to add some petrol to the fire .....

'Islamic State cake' prompts apology from Walmart - BBC News

I think this particular fire is already pretty hot.


Klan plans Confederate flag rally in South Carolina

[El Kabong]

Copying from an online source Kirkland? I'm sorry, that's not allowed......just holding you to your own asinine standard jackass.

[Beanflicker]

Everyone knows the confederates were led by vampires and Lincoln was the hero.

Yes! And finally Magic Johnson freed the slaves by beating Larry Bird in a 1v1!

[El Kabong]

Just to add some petrol to the fire .....

'Islamic State cake' prompts apology from Walmart - BBC News

I think this particular fire is already pretty hot.


Klan plans Confederate flag rally in South Carolina

MSNBC asked this question of everyone on Facebook (and I quote) "Should the KKK have the right to free speech?"


Fuck the white sheet wearing bastards and everything they believe in, but anytime, I mean ANY time someone says "Should they have the right to free speech?" that question should be answered in the affirmative regardless of how vile and/or idiotic the group or individual may be. Westboro Baptist Church, they can speak freely too, the crazy ass Code Pink people, they speak freely too.....our Founding Fathers had this thought about the free exchange of ideas, open debates, and ....allowing people to freely out themselves as idiots as many idiots are want to do anyway.

[SlimTrae]

This was the actual Confederate flag used through the second half of the Confederacy. All that white is there for a reason. It was known as the white man's flag. Here's what the guy who designed it had to say :

As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG..........As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.


Here's what the vice-president of the Confederacy on what it was all about :

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History


Here's what one Confederate state had to say about why they seceeded :

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession


And Confederate states actually opposed states' rights, that is the right of northern states not to oppose slavery.

Interesting read, cheers.

Once again the powers that be have Succeeded.
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.

One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.

There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.

Interesting Slim, I don't agree with everything you said, especially denigrating or dismissing a religious for such an issue but you look at things from an angle I can't see, just as you can't see my white angst.
I denigrated the religion of Christianity with words-based on the shallow-hallow response from Christians as it regards to the killing of Christians (9) to be exact.

I did not denigrate Christianity with actions like those of Dylann Roof a white guy who shot up a Christian church. And that doesn't irk you? Hurt you? Cause you to feel that he denigrated Christianity, yet I have?

I used words saying God... please Damn those Christians who wont stand up (God damn). Over actions of a man who damned people to the grave? In Hebrew it is called Sheol, correct?- the American rendering for that is hell. He sent your Christian brethren to hell..the grave - And you are so okay with that, you wouldn't write here- that he denigrated your faith? Or...are those 9 murdered Christians not your brethren & sisters?

Why should I respect a religion that will only stand up for Christians when its mulsims attacking, or when its liberals telling them ,they don't want their weak prayers in a public school?

If it were a Muslim who shot up a Christian church would U be silent? Or would U call it an act of terror?
Based on Roof's words is this not an act of racism? In the house of the lord at that?

The KKK is praising this act...in a (CHRISTIAN CHURCH). The group’s leader, Robert Jones, expressed support for Mr. Roof who stated: you’ve raped our women, and you are taking over the country … I have to do what I have to do. then he proceeded to shoot more women than men.
Would U like the link? I can send it. Or how about the Aryan Nation's leader Morris Gulett offered praise and urged others to follow Roof’s example.
And the dude didn't even have the confederate flag, he had the apartheid flag, so I am straight tripping at when, where and HOW did the confederate flag become a conversational piece in the last two weeks.

I am curious, although you already addressed it in a way, your view on the battles.
Do you mean the Un-civil war, revised to be called a civil war? If, so, my views are aligned with former Congressman Ron Paul from Texas. He rips the hell outta Lincoln for waging a war on behalf of (saving the union).
A war that
1. Industrialized the nation by taking land, resources from the many and giving to the few (Rockefeller, Carnegie) to name a few.. The railroads, to utilities..
2. Pitted freed states against enslaved states that didn't go down like that in other slave holding countries-when it came time freedom- they ended it- with finances offered- -The USA went to war over it. Serious what God backs a nation like that?
3. Allowed the bank charters that Andrew Jackson fought to end- to slowly creep back in.

As I quote Lincoln who stated :
"If I could save the union by keeping slavery alive, I will. And if I can save the union by emancipating the slaves I will."


I for one am grateful we don't live under it and it's principles but I look at it a a historic part of American history. Perhaps it does deserve to be relegated to museum collection, I'd just like to see the state's decide that, not media attention. Anyway, can you see it as a historical flag of the country or do you find it offensive, just curious I like to hear differing opinions.

The Confederate flag? To me it represents what the keepers of that flag want it to represent. If it is called "their" heritage NP. then define it -don't just say it represents our heritage , then walk away.
What does this heritage consist of?
Until it is explained many minorities see it as:

A heritage of white superiority, over minorities.

A heritage that deduced Blacks, Native Americans to Mexicans in a class denied education, land, justice under the law . In fact under that law- whites could enforce the "eyeball" law. Boy...u eye balling that white woman?

What a gr8 flag for whites. But how is it gr8 for nonwhites? If so, teach me. If not then how does that flag represent anything other than white justice?

[walrus]

This was the actual Confederate flag used through the second half of the Confederacy. All that white is there for a reason. It was known as the white man's flag. Here's what the guy who designed it had to say :

As a people, we are fighting to maintain the heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." And then in a later editorial, he cheered the design as one that will "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN's FLAG..........As a national emblem it is significant of our higher cause [,] the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity and barbarism.


Here's what the vice-president of the Confederacy on what it was all about :

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea [to that of the United States Constitution]; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

“Corner Stone” Speech | Teaching American History


Here's what one Confederate state had to say about why they seceeded :

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession


And Confederate states actually opposed states' rights, that is the right of northern states not to oppose slavery.

Interesting read, cheers.

Once again the powers that be have Succeeded.
No talk about people who died in a church. Fewer words from millionaire televangelists.

One would think this event would have overwhelmingly shown white and black and all churches uniting in the name of God. They haven't, so the powers that be slipped on in...by injecting the confederate flag.
Look at what it's done.....ignore the pain and suffering of black Christians murdered in what they thought was the house of the Lord..then Wonder why strong black men like me don't Give a godamn about Christianity.

There would be NO talk of a confederate flag if Christians Of America stood together.

Interesting Slim, I don't agree with everything you said, especially denigrating or dismissing a religious for such an issue but you look at things from an angle I can't see, just as you can't see my white angst.
I denigrated the religion of Christianity with words-based on the shallow-hallow response from Christians as it regards to the killing of Christians (9) to be exact.

I did not denigrate Christianity with actions like those of Dylann Roof a white guy who shot up a Christian church. And that doesn't irk you? Hurt you? Cause you to feel that he denigrated Christianity, yet I have?

I used words saying God... please Damn those Christians who wont stand up (God damn). Over actions of a man who damned people to the grave? In Hebrew it is called Sheol, correct?- the American rendering for that is hell. He sent your Christian brethren to hell..the grave - And you are so okay with that, you wouldn't write here- that he denigrated your faith? Or...are those 9 murdered Christians not your brethren & sisters?

Why should I respect a religion that will only stand up for Christians when its mulsims attacking, or when its liberals telling them ,they don't want their weak prayers in a public school?

If it were a Muslim who shot up a Christian church would U be silent? Or would U call it an act of terror?
Based on Roof's words are is this not an act of racism? In the house of the lord at that?

The KKK is praising this act...in a (CHRISTIAN CHURCH). The group’s leader, Robert Jones, expressed support for Mr. Roof who stated: you’ve raped our women, and you are taking over the country … I have to do what I have to do. then he proceeded to shoot more women than men.
Would U like the link? I can send it. Or how about the Aryan Nation's leader Morris Gulett offered praise and urged others to follow Roof’s example.
And the dude didn't even have the confederate flag, he had the apartheid flag, so I am straight tripping at when, where and HOW did the confederate flag become a conversational piece in the last two weeks.

I am curious, although you already addressed it in a way, your view on the battles.
Do you mean the Un-civil war, revised to be called a civil war? If, so, my views are aligned with former Congressman Ron Paul from Texas. He rips the hell outta Lincoln for waging a war on behalf of (saving the union).
A war that
1. Industrialized the nation by taking land, resources from the many and giving to the few (Rockefeller, Carnegie) to name a few.. The railroads, to utilities..
2. Pitted freed states against enslaved states that didn't go down like that in other slave holding countries-when it came time freedom
3. Allowed the bank charters that Andrew Jackson fought to end- to slowly creep back in.

As I quote Lincoln who stated :
"If I could save the union by keeping slavery alive, I will. And if I can save the union by emancipating the slaves I will."


I for one am grateful we don't live under it and it's principles but I look at it a a historic part of American history. Perhaps it does deserve to be relegated to museum collection, I'd just like to see the state's decide that, not media attention. Anyway, can you see it as a historical flag of the country or do you find it offensive, just curious I like to hear differing opinions.

The Confederate flag? To me it represents what the keepers of that flag want it to represent. If it is called "their" heritage NP. then define it -don't just say it represents our heritage , then walk away.
What does this heritage consist of?
Until it is explained many minorities see it as:

A heritage of white superiority, over minorities.

A heritage that deduced Blacks, Native Americans to Mexicans in a class denied education, land, justice under the law . In fact under that law- whites could enforce the "eyeball" law. Boy...u eye balling that white woman?

What a gr8 flag for whites. But how is it gr8 for nonwhites? If so, teach me. If not then how does that flag represent anything other than white justice?

No argument here. I would not want to be living under it and I'm glad the stars and bars won out. I just look at it as a part of a history of a tragic war we once had.

[El Kabong]

States Rights to peacefully secede. The 10th albeit all too forgotten Amendment. The men who fought for their homes and families not all of whom were slave owners and not all of whom were white.

The flag shouldn't be on the South Carolina state capitol grounds as it was put there in opposition to desegregation....but not selling the flag at Gettysburg or Antietam or other battlegrounds that's a horrible historical precedent to set.

Not everyone sees the flag as offensive, now the question is how many have to deem something offensive before it's removed?