had mayweather-hatton had NOT of been reffed by cortez.....

[eagle]

I don't know how anybody could ever think that Joe Cortez did not play a significant role in how events unfolded. In that respect HattontheHammer has made some valid points. Mayweather might not have needed Cortez, but having him at his beck and call certainly helped make a difficult task much easier.

In the wake of the Pac loss, I think we are seeing a case of strong revisionism taking place regarding the career of Hatton. None of it for the positive. A shame really because Hatton has been a very decent fighter. Getting blown out in two was always going to be fuel for the cynics and I think we are seeing that on forums today.

I dont know how anyone could say Cortez was more biased than Dave Parris!
Hatton was a good fighter who flourished in Britain when everything was on his side, but besides the Castillo fight he struggled in every other bout he had after the Tszyu fight. He was a majorly overhyped fighter who was world class but not elite. He beat one top guy in 40 odd fights and that was in a fight where the ref, ring size, crowd etc etc etc was all in his favour.
Cynics tend to go after people who are overhyped and Hatton was massively overhyped and overpaid for his ability.

I think they were both extremely questionable performances, but I'm not interested in trying to debate which one was worse.

Hatton was a very good fighter. In fact skillwise I think he regressed against Kostya and failed to show that versatility he had shown prior in subsequent fights. Hattons tactics became somewhat stale and I don't think his levels of fitness were quite the same again. Even then he still beat Collazo, Urango, Malignaggi and stopped Castillo. He actually displayed some lovely skills for half a fight against Urango but got weary and went back to holding. Even when ugly Hatton has the ability to just grind things out. And to be fair Hatton was even in the Mayweather fight up until half way when he lost the plot somewhat.

Hatton won a few trinkets and lost a couple of the big ones. No biggie. He did a lot better than most.

Well if u agree that Parris's ref display was questionable and helped Ricky win then how can u complain if Hatton is then on the recieving end. It is a massive double standard by you. Its ok if a ref is dodgy when it helps a fighter u like but not when it helps a fighter u dislike?

[Gandalf]

I dont know how anyone could say Cortez was more biased than Dave Parris!
Hatton was a good fighter who flourished in Britain when everything was on his side, but besides the Castillo fight he struggled in every other bout he had after the Tszyu fight. He was a majorly overhyped fighter who was world class but not elite. He beat one top guy in 40 odd fights and that was in a fight where the ref, ring size, crowd etc etc etc was all in his favour.
Cynics tend to go after people who are overhyped and Hatton was massively overhyped and overpaid for his ability.

I think they were both extremely questionable performances, but I'm not interested in trying to debate which one was worse.

Hatton was a very good fighter. In fact skillwise I think he regressed against Kostya and failed to show that versatility he had shown prior in subsequent fights. Hattons tactics became somewhat stale and I don't think his levels of fitness were quite the same again. Even then he still beat Collazo, Urango, Malignaggi and stopped Castillo. He actually displayed some lovely skills for half a fight against Urango but got weary and went back to holding. Even when ugly Hatton has the ability to just grind things out. And to be fair Hatton was even in the Mayweather fight up until half way when he lost the plot somewhat.

Hatton won a few trinkets and lost a couple of the big ones. No biggie. He did a lot better than most.

Well if u agree that Parris's ref display was questionable and helped Ricky win then how can u complain if Hatton is then on the recieving end. It is a massive double standard by you. Its ok if a ref is dodgy when it helps a fighter u like but not when it helps a fighter u dislike?

I haven't been defending the Kostya win in this thread, so to be honest I don't feel as if I am displaying any double standards. So, I resent that accusation. I have primarily been talking about the Mayweather fight with Cortez refereeing. I don't think I have at any point brought up the Kostya fight besides commenting that both refs sucked.

They were both questionable officiating performances. I hate bad referees full stop. There are no double standards from me when it comes to rubbish like that.

[eagle]

I think they were both extremely questionable performances, but I'm not interested in trying to debate which one was worse.

Hatton was a very good fighter. In fact skillwise I think he regressed against Kostya and failed to show that versatility he had shown prior in subsequent fights. Hattons tactics became somewhat stale and I don't think his levels of fitness were quite the same again. Even then he still beat Collazo, Urango, Malignaggi and stopped Castillo. He actually displayed some lovely skills for half a fight against Urango but got weary and went back to holding. Even when ugly Hatton has the ability to just grind things out. And to be fair Hatton was even in the Mayweather fight up until half way when he lost the plot somewhat.

Hatton won a few trinkets and lost a couple of the big ones. No biggie. He did a lot better than most.

Well if u agree that Parris's ref display was questionable and helped Ricky win then how can u complain if Hatton is then on the recieving end. It is a massive double standard by you. Its ok if a ref is dodgy when it helps a fighter u like but not when it helps a fighter u dislike?

I haven't been defending the Kostya win in this thread, so to be honest I don't feel as if I am displaying any double standards. So, I resent that accusation. I have primarily been talking about the Mayweather fight with Cortez refereeing. I don't think I have at any point brought up the Kostya fight besides commenting that both refs sucked.

They were both questionable officiating performances. I hate bad referees full stop. There are no double standards from me when it comes to rubbish like that.

Well maybe i was a bit harsh and i apologise. It just irks me that loads of Hatton fans go on and on about how bad Cortez was, but then act as tho Dave Parris's refereeing performance had no impact during the Tszyu fight. Truth is if it werent for Big Dave there may never have been a Hatton-Mayweather fight.

Again i apologise for the double standard comment, u are right u didnt bring up the KT fight.

[Kel]

Hatton loaded up with the left when his head wasn't being pulled, he wasn't even touched that was intentional. You're just consistently wrong on every point youve made this thread. Someone should go back and highlight everything you said thats just wrong, it would be almost all of it. And Mayweather didn't need Joe Cortez to help him beat him if you believe that then you're probably smoking crack.

I don't know how anybody could ever think that Joe Cortez did not play a significant role in how events unfolded. In that respect HattontheHammer has made some valid points. Mayweather might not have needed Cortez, but having him at his beck and call certainly helped make a difficult task much easier.

In the wake of the Pac loss, I think we are seeing a case of strong revisionism taking place regarding the career of Hatton. None of it for the positive. A shame really because Hatton has been a very decent fighter. Getting blown out in two was always going to be fuel for the cynics and I think we are seeing that on forums today.

Miles, no offence mate, but when you made THAT thread about JT, I don't see why he didn't just throw the names Calzaghe, Barrera & Hatton back at you.

Ricky was a very very good fighter. The difference was that Mayweather & Pacquiao are GREAT fighters & that's why the outcome would never have changed if Ricky's mum got to ref both fights with his dad, brother & girlfriend judging. There's no shame in acknowledging his limits.

I personally don't see what Tszyu did that Hatton didn't in terms of 'legacy'. KO'd Zab & then...

Ok mate I will help you here. Zab was undefeated for a kick off and was the next 'Suger Ray' according to some. Tszyu stopped him in the second round to unify the division. Cotto stopped him too but 9 rounds later. Zab won the first 3/4 rounds with Floyd and took him the distance, I don't think he was even staggered againsed Floyd.

He also fought anyone and constantly said he wanted the best guys and the biggest fights. He was too high risk for Oscar and Floyd, unfortunately.

There is more though...

Tszyu had 18 fights for a world title winning 15 of them while stopping 11 of them, lost two and one was a no contest. Five wins were on his turf the other 10 on foreign soil. It was nearly 30 years since anyone unified the 140 weight division at the time Kostya did.

Oh, he held a 140 title for just under ten years too

Now, what has Hatton done to match that? <----answer this!

[Violent Demise]

I don't know how anybody could ever think that Joe Cortez did not play a significant role in how events unfolded. In that respect HattontheHammer has made some valid points. Mayweather might not have needed Cortez, but having him at his beck and call certainly helped make a difficult task much easier.

In the wake of the Pac loss, I think we are seeing a case of strong revisionism taking place regarding the career of Hatton. None of it for the positive. A shame really because Hatton has been a very decent fighter. Getting blown out in two was always going to be fuel for the cynics and I think we are seeing that on forums today.

I dont know how anyone could say Cortez was more biased than Dave Parris!
Hatton was a good fighter who flourished in Britain when everything was on his side, but besides the Castillo fight he struggled in every other bout he had after the Tszyu fight. He was a majorly overhyped fighter who was world class but not elite. He beat one top guy in 40 odd fights and that was in a fight where the ref, ring size, crowd etc etc etc was all in his favour.
Cynics tend to go after people who are overhyped and Hatton was massively overhyped and overpaid for his ability.

Dont agree with that, Hatton was a good fighter, who became very one dimensional, he struggled with every fight after KT?? I dont think he struggled with Mallinaggi and Uranga, he gassed against Uranga but struggled?? No way, Hatton was a great fighter he just had his limitations against certain fighters Speed, southpaws and very technical fighters.

He was protected a bit to much in Manchester I agree with that, but he gets a bit to much stick these days. He wasnt elite but how many boxers are

Also please people saying Collazo was robbed go watch the fucking fight again, I think people just take into account Hatton was out on his feet in the twelve, imo he clearly won that fight.

Than you must have trouble scoring fights. Collazo should of been credited with a knock down in the 12th. Even without it he did enough to win the fight. He landed the harder blows in the 2nd half of the fight. I don't see how anybody can say Hatton clearly won. Like it was so easy. Look at his face after the fight. The fact that he promised Collazo a rematch and than punked out says a lot about Hatton

hatton.jpg

[Kel]

But Cortez was a disgrace I was thinking that last week when he reffed the John/Juarez fight and the amount of in fighting and leaning in that fight compared to the Hatton was a stark contrast.

Cortez ain't been a decent ref for fucking years. He needs sacking

[Violent Demise]

I don't know how anybody could ever think that Joe Cortez did not play a significant role in how events unfolded. In that respect HattontheHammer has made some valid points. Mayweather might not have needed Cortez, but having him at his beck and call certainly helped make a difficult task much easier.

In the wake of the Pac loss, I think we are seeing a case of strong revisionism taking place regarding the career of Hatton. None of it for the positive. A shame really because Hatton has been a very decent fighter. Getting blown out in two was always going to be fuel for the cynics and I think we are seeing that on forums today.

Miles, no offence mate, but when you made THAT thread about JT, I don't see why he didn't just throw the names Calzaghe, Barrera & Hatton back at you.

Ricky was a very very good fighter. The difference was that Mayweather & Pacquiao are GREAT fighters & that's why the outcome would never have changed if Ricky's mum got to ref both fights with his dad, brother & girlfriend judging. There's no shame in acknowledging his limits.

I personally don't see what Tszyu did that Hatton didn't in terms of 'legacy'. KO'd Zab & then...

Ok mate I will help you here. Zab was undefeated for a kick off and was the next 'Suger Ray' according to some. Tszyu stopped him in the second round to unify the division. Cotto stopped him too but 9 rounds later. Zab won the first 3/4 rounds with Floyd and took him the distance, I don't think he was even staggered againsed Floyd.

He also fought anyone and constantly said he wanted the best guys and the biggest fights. He was too high risk for Oscar and Floyd, unfortunately.

There is more though...

Tszyu had 18 fights for a world title winning 15 of them while stopping 11 of them, lost two and one was a no contest. Five wins were on his turf the other 10 on foreign soil. It was nearly 30 years since anyone unified the 140 weight division at the time Kostya did.

Oh, he held a 140 title for just under ten years too

Now, what has Hatton done to match that? <----answer this!

I like Kostya. And agree that Hatton can't match what he's done. But to say he was too high risk for Oscar is plain wrong. De La Hoya-Tszyu was going to happen. It was all set up. Unfortunately Vince Phillips stopped Tszyu in what was suppose to be a tune-up and ended all that. Can't blame
Oscar for that
oscar for that

[JazMerkin]

I don't know how anybody could ever think that Joe Cortez did not play a significant role in how events unfolded. In that respect HattontheHammer has made some valid points. Mayweather might not have needed Cortez, but having him at his beck and call certainly helped make a difficult task much easier.

In the wake of the Pac loss, I think we are seeing a case of strong revisionism taking place regarding the career of Hatton. None of it for the positive. A shame really because Hatton has been a very decent fighter. Getting blown out in two was always going to be fuel for the cynics and I think we are seeing that on forums today.

Miles, no offence mate, but when you made THAT thread about JT, I don't see why he didn't just throw the names Calzaghe, Barrera & Hatton back at you.

Ricky was a very very good fighter. The difference was that Mayweather & Pacquiao are GREAT fighters & that's why the outcome would never have changed if Ricky's mum got to ref both fights with his dad, brother & girlfriend judging. There's no shame in acknowledging his limits.

I personally don't see what Tszyu did that Hatton didn't in terms of 'legacy'. KO'd Zab & then...

Ok mate I will help you here. Zab was undefeated for a kick off and was the next 'Suger Ray' according to some. Tszyu stopped him in the second round to unify the division. Cotto stopped him too but 9 rounds later. Zab won the first 3/4 rounds with Floyd and took him the distance, I don't think he was even staggered againsed Floyd.

He also fought anyone and constantly said he wanted the best guys and the biggest fights. He was too high risk for Oscar and Floyd, unfortunately.

There is more though...

Tszyu had 18 fights for a world title winning 15 of them while stopping 11 of them, lost two and one was a no contest. Five wins were on his turf the other 10 on foreign soil. It was nearly 30 years since anyone unified the 140 weight division at the time Kostya did.

Oh, he held a 140 title for just under ten years too

Now, what has Hatton done to match that? <----answer this!

You seem to think I think Hatton was a better fighter. I don't. Unfortunately, Zab got handily beaten by other guys. It was a great shot, but it's not like Tszyu dominated him. He was roughing him up 2nd round & than caught him with a beautifully timed right hand. Oh & Zab was CLEARLY ready to go when he resorted to low blows & rabbit punches. I'm not saying Mayweather was a puncher on Tszyu's level, but don't try change the facts. Zab hadn't beaten anyone pre-Kostya for anyone to justify that kind of hype, in fact his best work was all after that.

Of course, EVERYONE ducked him . He had a ODLH fight lined up only to lose to Phillips, whilst a Mayweather fight would have come off had he beaten Hatton as he was expected to. If he wanted the big fights, there were always guys up at welter he could have chased as many other fighters did.

It's the same old story I hear everytime. All those facts & figures are nice, but I don't see the opposition there. Yes there are some impressive wins (Hurtado, Judah, Mitchell), but for me there were too many over old shot versions of Juan Laporte, Roger Mayweather, Livingstone Bramble & Chavez. He probably is HoF material, but I don't see this greatness. Legacy wise, Hatton's popularity will help him in future years. People will say 'he lost to the 2 best fighters of his era' not 'he lost Ricky Hatton & some guy called Vince Phillips'. I don't even rate Hatton particularly, but I feel he gets a lot of stick, whilst Tszyu seems to get a golden pass on his losses. I mean why did he not go after Phillips for a rematch? Unless you're gonna tell me he was ducking him & all.

I'm sorry when the best fighters on a guy's resume were very shot or Zab Judah & Sharmba Mitchell I refuse to acknowledge them as some great warrior.

[sumkalambay]

judah's fundamentals are inadequate. i can't imagine someone like hopkins retreating backwards in a straight line standing flush with his chin sticking out. well-timed shot from kostya nonetheless.

[Spicoli]

When I see what some of the best Amatuer 'superstars' are fighting today I cannot knock Tszyus early competition with a straight face.He had some good ones.Head of granite 40 fight fmr champ Laporte for a 3rd pro fight,I wish.Bramble was retred but serving a purpose so early on.Sanchez,quality Lopez,very shiftyRodriquez credible in the moment and respectable wins.Now the Grove and Ruelas wins,ugh.Spent shells.

[eagle]

Miles, no offence mate, but when you made THAT thread about JT, I don't see why he didn't just throw the names Calzaghe, Barrera & Hatton back at you.

Ricky was a very very good fighter. The difference was that Mayweather & Pacquiao are GREAT fighters & that's why the outcome would never have changed if Ricky's mum got to ref both fights with his dad, brother & girlfriend judging. There's no shame in acknowledging his limits.

I personally don't see what Tszyu did that Hatton didn't in terms of 'legacy'. KO'd Zab & then...

Ok mate I will help you here. Zab was undefeated for a kick off and was the next 'Suger Ray' according to some. Tszyu stopped him in the second round to unify the division. Cotto stopped him too but 9 rounds later. Zab won the first 3/4 rounds with Floyd and took him the distance, I don't think he was even staggered againsed Floyd.

He also fought anyone and constantly said he wanted the best guys and the biggest fights. He was too high risk for Oscar and Floyd, unfortunately.

There is more though...

Tszyu had 18 fights for a world title winning 15 of them while stopping 11 of them, lost two and one was a no contest. Five wins were on his turf the other 10 on foreign soil. It was nearly 30 years since anyone unified the 140 weight division at the time Kostya did.

Oh, he held a 140 title for just under ten years too

Now, what has Hatton done to match that? <----answer this!

You seem to think I think Hatton was a better fighter. I don't. Unfortunately, Zab got handily beaten by other guys. It was a great shot, but it's not like Tszyu dominated him. He was roughing him up 2nd round & than caught him with a beautifully timed right hand. Oh & Zab was CLEARLY ready to go when he resorted to low blows & rabbit punches. I'm not saying Mayweather was a puncher on Tszyu's level, but don't try change the facts. Zab hadn't beaten anyone pre-Kostya for anyone to justify that kind of hype, in fact his best work was all after that.

Of course, EVERYONE ducked him . He had a ODLH fight lined up only to lose to Phillips, whilst a Mayweather fight would have come off had he beaten Hatton as he was expected to. If he wanted the big fights, there were always guys up at welter he could have chased as many other fighters did.

It's the same old story I hear everytime. All those facts & figures are nice, but I don't see the opposition there. Yes there are some impressive wins (Hurtado, Judah, Mitchell), but for me there were too many over old shot versions of Juan Laporte, Roger Mayweather, Livingstone Bramble & Chavez. He probably is HoF material, but I don't see this greatness. Legacy wise, Hatton's popularity will help him in future years. People will say 'he lost to the 2 best fighters of his era' not 'he lost Ricky Hatton & some guy called Vince Phillips'. I don't even rate Hatton particularly, but I feel he gets a lot of stick, whilst Tszyu seems to get a golden pass on his losses. I mean why did he not go after Phillips for a rematch? Unless you're gonna tell me he was ducking him & all.

I'm sorry when the best fighters on a guy's resume were very shot or Zab Judah & Sharmba Mitchell I refuse to acknowledge them as some great warrior.

Well who are Hattons greatest wins? Old shot fighters in Tszyu and Castillo? Powderpuff Malignaggi? In his first 38 fights Ricky's toughest opponent was Oliviera who had lost 9 times already!
You cannot gain a legacy from losing to 2 good fighters. I mean if those fights were close maybe but he got KTFO by both PBF and Pac.
Tszyu had 14 less fights than Hatton yet had 12 more defenses and 12 more world titile fights in all.
Tszyu has a better legacy due to more title defense, a unified division and the fact that he did it the hard way having to travel to the other fighters back yard for all his career.
Rickys whole legacy is based on 1 single win in a fight where everything was stacked in his favour!

[generalbulldog]

In a way I've always seen Tszyu as his era's Aaron Pryor. A great 140 pound fighter that was overlooked by the bigger stars from the Welterweight division. For some reason just like Pryor he never jumped up to welterweight to challenge the big names there, maybe just like Pryor he knew his limitations, whatever the reason he's an all time great, much more so than Hatton.

BTW, it seems like there is always an excuse for Hatton losing, Hatton's fan base is just like Mike Tyson's fan base, in that there is always some lame excuse why he lost. Maybe just maybe guys like Mayweather and Pacquiao are superior fighters? Has that ever crossed the minds of people making up excuses for Hatton?

[HattonTheHammer]

the mere fact that 2 years on this debate is still managing endless amounts of posts pretty much vindicates my reason for bringing this up..............again

cortez robbed ricky of a fair fight

[CFH]

the mere fact that 2 years on this debate is still managing endless amounts of posts pretty much vindicates my reason for bringing this up..............again

cortez robbed ricky of a fair fight

But almost all the people participating in this thread debating about Hatton's career, his abilities etc., not whether or not Cortez robbed him of a fair fight. Most people feel that the ref made almost no difference in the outcome of the fight.

He lost to Collazo too

[Tysonbruno]

End of the day Hatton fought a lot of his fights hooking holding and wrestling especially from Tszyu onwards the Mayweathers made this obvious to Cortez and he stopped Hatton doing it the fact of the matter is had Hatton been as good as his unbeaten 43-0 record was saying he was he would have kept his composure and found a plan b or c to win fact is his plan A was Hook his plan B was Hold and plan C Wrestle. In my opinion a fighter should only hold to the degree Hatton does to recover when hurt not as a game plan to get you through fights because you cant do it with boxing ability.