Gives me great pleasure to say this** IMO**

[JT Rock]

Listen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.

I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.

Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.

People will say Baldo was a weak Champ, and I agree 100000% but none the less he wasnt a fringe nabo or any other single title holder. He was considered the lineal Champ. Then he fought Oscar for bocu bucks and Hatton for a bizillion dollars too..

No fighter in the History of the sport would have turned down those 2 paydays against DLH and Hatton, no one!! DLH and Baldo enjoyed big damn advantages size wise. He retires, takes a break then takes a get my feet wet agin fight with JMM. So how does Floyd all of a sudden make a career out of fighting smaller guys?

Floyd should be judged adversly on his next few fights if they are against subpar guys who have no business at the weight, but its ridiculous people would go apeshit for making 2 of the richest fights in this era and then taking on JMM albeit a smaller version just to get his feet wet.

Then you have a guy like Hopkins who's biggest wins were against smaller fighters but yet his ass is kissed royally.

Trinidad
DLH
Wright
Pavlik
Etc.

Then he gets beat by Calzaghe who made a career out of 168.

I understand why (money as you pointed out) Floyd fought Hatton and DLH, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he hasn't faced an elite welterweight and he has campaigned at the weight for five years (Baldomir doesn't count, sorry). And he needed an easy match-up for his comeback fight so he chose Marquez. Fair enough. From this point going forward he needs to fight dominant guys at his weight class and if there aren't any dominant fighters at his weight class, then he should go up in weight, not down in weight, to look for them. That's all.

Hopkins v. PBF is a good question and deserves a whole thread.

One more thing, PBF may have reclaimed his p4p #1 spot from Pac, but Pac easily reclaims it if he beats Cotto (although I don't think he will).

I agree that Baldo was shit, but that still didnt mean that we wasnt the lineal champ at 147.

I said the same thing, Floyd grabbed the money the fame and the accolades against Delahoya and Hatton just like everyother fighter would have done and already had done in that position. Cotto is doing the same vs Pac and Shane was in the mix jockying too for the money and the shot to pick off the sports PFP#1 fighter

[BIG H]

I don't think there was ever much debate about who would the Hatton fight JT

[JT Rock]

I don't think there was ever much debate about who would the Hatton fight JT

You certainly know far well you were in the minority of British people who thought Floyd would beat Ricky, I like to believe you at least remember th line that was drawn in the sand here, when the debates were quite rabid and abundant.

You do remember right?

[BIG H]

I don't think there was ever much debate about who would the Hatton fight JT

You certainly know far well you were in the minority of British people who thought Floyd would beat Ricky, I like to believe you at least remember th line that was drawn in the sand here, when the debates were quite rabid and abundant.

You do remember right?

Just winding you up geezer

[Julius Rain]

I don't recall Hopkins accusing Mayweather as a fighter picking on smaller fighters.

In most of Hopkins big fights he was the underdog so i don't understand how you can accuse him of picking on smaller fighters when he wasn't supposed to beat them.

For example Trinidad,Wright and Pavlik were the favourites to beat Hopkins.

Trinidad was supposed to ko Hopkins, instead all he got was a 12 round schooling and his ass sent into retirement. That was when the weight excuses came along.

Wright was supposed to have too much workrate for the 42 year old Hopkins to deal with but instead Hopkins ends up outworking Wright to a close but clear decision. The weight excuse didn't come along till \wright had an L in his loss column.

Pavlik was supposed to have too much pressure and power for the old man Hopkins to handle but instead Pavlik gets the biggest ass whooping in his career and loses by a pure shut out. surprise surprise people mention how Pavlik shouldn't of moved up to 170 when it wasn't a problem before the fight no ? Pavlik's bad performance had nothing to do with the fact that Hopkins used lateral movement, constant angles, his sharp defense, quick counters and superior handspeed to totally stun Pavlik. no it wasn't was it.

Then there's the DLH fight who i am willing to admit wasn't the fair fight as Hopkins was simply too big for Oscar. One thing people due tend to forget though, is that they fought at a catchweight of 156 which was only two pounds shy of where DLH was natural at..... at that stage of his career.

then once you include his big win over Tarver ( he was weight drained right ? ), that wasn't the case before though as Tarver was the clear favourite to win.

After all of that include solid wins over Eastman, Echols, Lipsey and Johnson and you got a man with a great career.

plus bhop dominated his division, has floyd? bhop may have taken on smaller fighters then him but he took care of business unlike floyd. floyds division is filled with threats he aint have the balls to take care of.

Thats quite an oxymoron Rains.. The whole premise of this conversation was to draw an illustration of how Floyd is all of a sudden fighting nothing but smaller fighters. So what your implying is Floyd is doing nothing wrong as long as he keeps fighting smaller guys coming up in weight like Hopkins

Again its foolish to try and compare a severly lacking Middleweight division that BHop ruled than the golden Era of the 140's today.

Point being you cant rake on Floyd for fighting 2 guys back to back that were not Welters and than laud Hop for doing it. Sorry dosent add up, any way you spin it, undeniably Hops biggest wins were against guys that were naturally smaller than him.

I am not tainting Hop's career he deserves all of his due and accolades, I'm just making a comparison on how its a blatant double standard

so your going with the excuse that the welter is at a golden era so that gives floyd the reason not to try clear up the division? What I was saying is it wouldnt be a bad thing if floyd had cleared up 147, like what bhop did with the middleweight division. Fighting smaller fighters who come to him at 147 after clearing up his division or atleast have 1 or 2 fights in the direction of clearing it up would be all good. Not how his doing it now, showing no effort to clear up what you say is a golden era of the welters but declaring himself atg by picking on smaller fighters.

Would be interesting to see who floyd fights next.

Lesser fighter but bigger guys then JMM did better then JMM against floyd, but weight had nothing to do with the results still right?

[JT Rock]

plus bhop dominated his division, has floyd? bhop may have taken on smaller fighters then him but he took care of business unlike floyd. floyds division is filled with threats he aint have the balls to take care of.

Thats quite an oxymoron Rains.. The whole premise of this conversation was to draw an illustration of how Floyd is all of a sudden fighting nothing but smaller fighters. So what your implying is Floyd is doing nothing wrong as long as he keeps fighting smaller guys coming up in weight like Hopkins

Again its foolish to try and compare a severly lacking Middleweight division that BHop ruled than the golden Era of the 140's today.

Point being you cant rake on Floyd for fighting 2 guys back to back that were not Welters and than laud Hop for doing it. Sorry dosent add up, any way you spin it, undeniably Hops biggest wins were against guys that were naturally smaller than him.

I am not tainting Hop's career he deserves all of his due and accolades, I'm just making a comparison on how its a blatant double standard

so your going with the excuse that the welter is at a golden era so that gives floyd the reason not to try clear up the division? What I was saying is it wouldnt be a bad thing if floyd had cleared up 147, like what bhop did with the middleweight division. Fighting smaller fighters who come to him at 147 after clearing up his division or atleast have 1 or 2 fights in the direction of clearing it up would be all good. Not how his doing it now, showing no effort to clear up what you say is a golden era of the welters but declaring himself atg by picking on smaller fighters.

Would be interesting to see who floyd fights next.

Lesser fighter but bigger guys then JMM did better then JMM against floyd, but weight had nothing to do with the results still right?

I went on record as saying if 1-2 fights from now if Floyd is fighting Michael Katsidis and Humberto Soto, than yea he is an idiot and will lose my respect.Given the circumstances of his 2 megafights against DLH and Hatton, coupled with a comeback fight against JMM, give the guy a break already. Its clearly obvious that he is going to fight Mosely and if victorious then the winner of Pac vs Cotto. What more could you ask for?

[Pugilistic]

Tito going in total different direction from JMM with added weight & had legitimized himself at Middle with destruction of Champion Joppy....also I'm sure he was actually the favorite going in vs. Hopkins with a match with Roy Jones waiting in the wings.

seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore

Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.

etc.

I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other

Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it

You clearly ignored my post.

And a side note on Calzaghe, Calzaghe was planning to move up to 175 for years, and was starting to find making 168 hard.

Calzaghe should of probably been a light heavyweight years before.

Hopkins never made any fighters move up, Those guys wanted a Hopkins fight and with his fights with Pavlik and Wright he had to come down 5 pounds at age 42/43.

I don't accuse Mayweather of picking on smaller guys by the way.

It was only two fights ago Mayweather was fighting a bigger DLH and just before that a bigger Baldomir.

[JT Rock]

Tito going in total different direction from JMM with added weight & had legitimized himself at Middle with destruction of Champion Joppy....also I'm sure he was actually the favorite going in vs. Hopkins with a match with Roy Jones waiting in the wings.

seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore

Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.

etc.

I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other

Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it

You clearly ignored my post.

And a side note on Calzaghe, Calzaghe was planning to move up to 175 for years, and was starting to find making 168 hard.

Calzaghe should of probably been a light heavyweight years before.

Hopkins never made any fighters move up, Those guys wanted a Hopkins fight and with his fights with Pavlik and Wright he had to come down 5 pounds at age 42/43.

I don't accuse Mayweather of picking on smaller guys by the way.

It was only two fights ago Mayweather was fighting a bigger DLH and just before that a bigger Baldomir.

I dont believe I was directing anything toward you, as far as Calzaghe goes Hop could have gone to Lightheavy 7-8 years ago under his own admission

I hear what your saying about who what where and how, but they were still all smaller. Right? My post was directed more toward the guys who now claim Floyd is a bully who only fights smaller guys now.. I was simply making a comparison, not denigrating hops career

[Pugilistic]

seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore

Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.

etc.

I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other

Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it

You clearly ignored my post.

And a side note on Calzaghe, Calzaghe was planning to move up to 175 for years, and was starting to find making 168 hard.

Calzaghe should of probably been a light heavyweight years before.

Hopkins never made any fighters move up, Those guys wanted a Hopkins fight and with his fights with Pavlik and Wright he had to come down 5 pounds at age 42/43.

I don't accuse Mayweather of picking on smaller guys by the way.

It was only two fights ago Mayweather was fighting a bigger DLH and just before that a bigger Baldomir.

I dont believe I was directing anything toward you, as far as Calzaghe goes Hop could have gone to Lightheavy 7-8 years ago under his own admission

I hear what your saying about who what where and how, but they were still all smaller. Right? My post was directed more toward the guys who now claim Floyd is a bully who only fights smaller guys now.. I was simply making a comparison, not denigrating hops career

Hopkins was bigger than Wright, Trinidad, etc just like Wright was bigger than Mosley, like Hagler was bigger than Duran. We can constantly use size to discredit fighters on someone's resume.

I don't agree with people saying Mayweather is a bully because although i didn't want him to fight Marquez because Marquez is my boy, i accept the fact that Mayweather had been out of the ring almost two years and needed to test his skills against a big name but someone who didn't provide alot of risk.

I severely disagree with you saying Mayweather is number 1 again though.

The version he fought of Marquez doesn't do it for me imo.

If he was to beat Mosley or Pacquiao, he would certainly reclaim his throne at the top but until then, he is number 2.

[C-Lo]

I'm with you JT!

I see what you were trying to say. It is a double standard because B-Hop is viewed as a phenom because he's so old yet still fighting at such a high level. Floyd on the other hand is looked at as a "brat" and a widely disliked figure so people will look at him with "tunnel vision."

Btw, I think Floyd needs to beat Pac or Pac lose to Cotto for Floyd to get #1 back.

I don't think there was ever much debate about who would the Hatton fight JT

I don't know wtf I was thinking when I thought Hatton had a shot there. Damn 24/7 and their cinematic techinques. The made me think Roy Jones was going to beat Calzaghe!

[Spicoli]

Tito going in total different direction from JMM with added weight & had legitimized himself at Middle with destruction of Champion Joppy....also I'm sure he was actually the favorite going in vs. Hopkins with a match with Roy Jones waiting in the wings.

seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignore

Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.

etc.

I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other

Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it

Respectfully bud
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...cats/Decaf.jpg

You have me confused with someone who paints with as broad a brush as you are using here my friend.Simply making a point about the two fighters and circumstances of fights I mentioned.And at know time have I thrown Mayweathers entire resume out on the curb as a whole.Yeah,I dismissed the credibility of Hatton sooo much that I actually thought he stood a huge chance ,gave nothing but credit to Mayweather for that big drubbing.Yes,do believe he should have been in the welter sweepstakes and faced Clottey,Margarito,Cotto,Williams,shite even a not much in demand Oscar rematch off s dec.But,he did not...he 'retired'.In case you missed it Ive taken Hopkins to task on some of his less than stellar foes...that Oscar fight.It was a farce,again a strictly name event and Oscar did not belong anywhere neeeeaaaar Middleweight off "W" against Sturm.Put that huge brush away dude & lets keep it straight.

[KalihiBoyHawaii]

Ahhh JT, you know that not everyone is going to agree with you, that's what this place is all about.

We all have different things that we look for in a fighter, and therefore, our standards of how to place a fighter is viewed very differently. You see him as number one, some of us don't. Simple as that.

As for me, you know I'm just busting your balls.

I dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.

It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys

Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight

Listen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.

I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.

Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.

Great post!

Pacquiao keeps fighting bigger guys like Oscar, Hatton, and now Cotto.

Fraud is Fraud. He keeps fighting jr. lightweights, lightweights, and jr WW.

How can you be P4P king when you're not even the champ at your own division and REFUSE NOW to take on the WW Champ, Mosley.

Everyone knows boxing is about style. Marquez is tailor made for Fraud, he stands in front of his opponent. He does not know how to attack, his forte is to lay back and wait for the attack.

Pacquiao would attack Fraud and punish him. There won't be any room for Fraud to move, he'll back him up against the ropes and hit his shoulders, arms, and skull. We all saw the power of Pacquiao in the Hatton fight. Marquez is a jr. lightweight, don't confuse him with Pacquiao at 140.

[JonesJrMayweather]

I dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.

It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys

Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight

Listen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.

I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.

Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.

Great post!

Pacquiao keeps fighting bigger guys like Oscar, Hatton, and now Cotto.

Fraud is Fraud. He keeps fighting jr. lightweights, lightweights, and jr WW.

How can you be P4P king when you're not even the champ at your own division and REFUSE NOW to take on the WW Champ, Mosley.

Everyone knows boxing is about style. Marquez is tailor made for Fraud, he stands in front of his opponent. He does not know how to attack, his forte is to lay back and wait for the attack.

Pacquiao would attack Fraud and punish him. There won't be any room for Fraud to move, he'll back him up against the ropes and hit his shoulders, arms, and skull. We all saw the power of Pacquiao in the Hatton fight. Marquez is a jr. lightweight, don't confuse him with Pacquiao at 140.

Spoken like a true fanatic...Hard to see any of this considering pac is too small to pull this off against a bigger, better boxer. Floyd will stop manny. Although its a lose/lose for floyd and win/win for manny, but i dont think this will happen after cotto bashes manny in.

[Mao's Favourite Starling]

I agree it had nothing to do with Mayweather's weight, but it had all to do with Marquez's weight (or size to be more accurate). Floyd could have weighed any weight in the welterweight range and he would have beat Marquez

Money will play the same trick with Pac though! Dictate the weight to his own favour so he has the advantage months before they even step into the ring!

Replace the word Marquez for Pac in the quote above and I can see it will be what we are saying post PBFvPac...

PBF has form for engineering fights to suit him! He is a fantastic specimen of a boxer, but he shouldn't be allowed to ride rough-shod over the weight limits as he has done previously!

[Mao's Favourite Starling]

[quote=JT Rock;789135]

I think Nard had a great career and I appreciate all he has done, but I am barking up his tree to illustrate how Floyd is getting ripped on for fighting Hatton and JMM and then all of a sudden given the circumstances involved he is labeled as a big mean school yard bully who only picks on smaller fighters?

Yet Hopkins did it at just about every big fight in his career. Just dosent add up and thats all I was pointing out.

There are some of us who think that Hopkins was a 'bully' too you know!

2 wrongs don't make a right!