What happened to building a complete fighter?

[DaxxKahn]

Like I said in my other thread about Andy Lee being exposed it seems that lately guys that are hot prospects are dropping like fly's....or if not dropping they are being shown up for lesser fighters then the hype has had many believe....My question is...WTF is the problem?...Then it came to me after watching the Lee fight again....

These guys are not complete fighters....in fact not even close!! Hell we all know not every fighter can do everything perfectly...even the great Ray Robinson and Hank Armstrong had flaws..but look at the guys today that are big names....

John Duddy--The guy is exciting but he knows nothing of the word Defense...his head movement is almost nil and none...his jab is weak...exciting but if those things were worked on he would of had some sort of title by now

Andy Lee- last night showed one important thing with him...He can not fight on the inside...that is OK though because he is a rangy fighter who uses his reach and power from the outside but Lee does not even know how to hold!!! Even the most novice of amateurs know enough to hold...Lee looked like a guy trying to put his left foot in a right boot when it came time to hold....

Edison Miranda-- Sure he can bang like thunder on a tin roof but even after his loss to Pavlik he still has not managed to fix many of his dangerous flaws...Flaws that will only get him dispacted of again once he meets an elite fighter..Edison forgets that you can not charge everyone like a bull in a china shop

I am not putting any of these fighters down...IMO all are good fighters and all are exciting...All can go much further then they have so far but these little flaws will stop them from reaching the top...and they all have the attributes to do so if not for these little things....Basic things that should be taught to every fighter to ever step in a gym and every trainer worth his salt would make sure they employ these skill in the ring as a pro....

It is not just the up coming prospects or contenders that have these problems but many of the younger champions do as well....IMO this is killing the sport....It is making these guys lousy fighters and bringing down the quality of those who represent it...

Jab your way in, Move your head, learn how to punch on the inside, don't rush your opp leaving yourself open for any counter shot timed or not, Pace yourself (many of these guys are gassed fighting with their mouths open by the 5th round),

It is not like every fighter needs to master every thing but they should at least have some kknow how on how to apply these things in the ring for when need be....

People ask why is it that when a modern fighter is put up against a past great in a mythical matchup the fighter of old is usually picked to win?....It is becoming more and more self explanitory with the defeat of each one of these young guys...Maybe I am just judging them all top harshly

[OumaFan]

Lack of infighting is the thing that bothers me. It seems like a prerequisite to being a "boxer" these days is a complete lack of infighting. Guys like Toney, Whittaker, even Floyd were "boxers" but guys who could fight on the inside, outside, anywhere. This leads me to another complaint which is allowing excessive holding, why learn to fight on the inside if you can just nullify another guy's infighting ability by just hugging him every time he gets within range. Hopefully Emmanuel Steward will take on more fighters in order to continue his quest to completely eliminate infighting.

I do agree about the lack of defense too even though the lack of infighting bothers me more. But a guy like Duddy is just a lost cause IMO, there's just something wrong with him, like he just can't see the punches coming or something Of course moving his head a bit might be a start.

[CutMeMick]

One of the last kids (now a man) to be build and carried properly is Cotto.
While everyone cried and complained that he hadn't fought anybody and all I kept telling people it's called building a fighter....
All they did was roll their eyes at me.

A few fighters today whom I think they are building them properly are Linares, Mares, Chazz, Aaron Williams, BCD, Devon. Among others...


Remember what happened to Vargas, he was quickly put in the ring against Tito, ODLH, Campas, Ike back to back.... Not a good idea and def. not a way to build a fighter.

[OumaFan]

I like how the Peterson brothers are being trained, they've got more dimensions to their game than most young fighters, infighting, outside fighting, can go forward, fight on the back foot, both could jab more and who knows if they'll make it but at least there not such one dimensional fighters like a lot of these jab right hand hold young fighters are.

Their opposition has been really soft but sometimes that works out well, Pavlik was brought along pretty slow.

[Kev]

As Ouma and Mick have said there are plenty of up and comers who show real potential but just don't have the popularity of a John Duddy.

The Peterson brothers, Andre Direll, Andre Ward, Andre Berto, Steve Molitor, Jorge Linares, Amir Khan are all fighters who look to have terrific potential.

[Macho]

Hey man...is like Tito Trinidad , Who will change the way that Tito fight? The way that everybody will read his style and I think even his father couldn't change him to other style....... There is a proverb in Spanish that say:" Palo doblado , jamas su tronco endereza " When a stick is bend , never their trunk will up right......LOLOL I don't know if i spelled correctly but is something like that......

[OumaFan]

Hey man...is like Tito Trinidad , Who will change the way that Tito fight? The way that everybody will read his style and I think even his father couldn't change him to other style....... There is a proverb in Spanish that say:" Palo doblado , jamas su tronco endereza " When a stick is bend , never their trunk will up right......LOLOL I don't know if i spelled correctly but is something like that......

Haha I have no idea what you're talking about, I have to rep you for that.

[CutMeMick]

I like how the Peterson brothers are being trained, they've got more dimensions to their game than most young fighters, infighting, outside fighting, can go forward, fight on the back foot, both could jab more and who knows if they'll make it but at least there not such one dimensional fighters like a lot of these jab right hand hold young fighters are.

Their opposition has been really soft but sometimes that works out well, Pavlik was brought along pretty slow.

Great calls Ouma...

[bzkfn]

One of the last kids (now a man) to be build and carried properly is Cotto.
While everyone cried and complained that he hadn't fought anybody and all I kept telling people it's called building a fighter....
All they did was roll their eyes at me.

A few fighters today whom I think they are building them properly are Linares, Mares, Chazz, Aaron Williams, BCD, Devon. Among others...


Remember what happened to Vargas, he was quickly put in the ring against Tito, ODLH, Campas, Ike back to back.... Not a good idea and def. not a way to build a fighter.

I was just about to use Cotto as the perfect example. I actually think they're trying to do this with Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. but he needs a step up. You're getting good rep from me, but you're stealing the opinions from my mind again!

[Scrap]

I like the look of the Petersons and Linares look good Fighters

[amat]

I like the look of the Petersons and Linares look good Fighters

Agreed.

There are some complete fighters out there. I'd say Andre Ward is developing into a very complete fighter. The Petersons are much the same. Of the young guys I'd also say, even after the loss, that Juan Diaz is a pretty well rounded fighter.

It's a psychology thing. When you have one thing, like power, working so well for you as a young fighter, you tend to fall in love with it and ignore the finer things and they don't pay for it. That is until they get into the ring with someone who recognizes this and then they pay and often times it's too late by that time.

[Deanrw]

Pavlik was brought along properly also. A slow steady progression until they thought he was ready. He did fight some tough SOB's along the way like Zuniga who dropped him. But I think that also helped him when in trouble with Taylor in the first fight.

He is no Cotto skill wise, but I think they did well with the tools he offered them.