James Toney is back! Toney/Lebedev live!

[Gandalf]

But did he injure his leg? Apparently in the post fight interview he mumbled about this....is that true? I missed the interview. If the leg was injured though it would explain a lot.

To perform like that is beyond shot, he had to be injured and he showed clear signs of being injured.

[Mars_ax]

I agree with p4pking, I think Lebedev is shit too.

I think this is simply testament to the end of James Toney. At 42 he simply was too old and had been too fat and for far too long. I was worried that he was going to be stopped on at least a dozen occasions. That is not James Toney.

He was wobbling all over the place and looked spent coming into the championship rounds. To think how just a few years ago that was when Toney would come on and would dazzle his opponents with combinations and counter so effectively off of the ropes.

Today it was all gone. He could slip punches, but the quality was gone and he could not counter. He was reduced to being a one trick pony with the right hand counter being his only weapon. And it wasn't much of a weapon.

I'm gutted really.

Why be gutted? This was totally predictable, especially with the odds being 13-1 in Levedev's favor. As for James, he's none the worse for wear after this one, and got final decent payday, no need to feel sorry for his ass.

When one of your favourite fighters loses badly you feel bad too.

It was the same thing with Hatton/Pac, I get into it all and really will them to do these incredible things and when it falls flat you feel a bit bleak.

It's not very nice seeing James Toney being wobbled all over the shop by a fighter that will never accomplish a quarter of what someone like Toney has.

It's always sad to see pugs fighting way past their prime, but more often than not it's about making money. It's not like Toney or RJJ for that matter, don't know what they're doing, and as long as someone is willing to pay them well, they're gonna take it. Do I feel sorry for them? Nope not at all.

[Gandalf]

You don't go from being James Toney to being Andrew Hartley with a chin. It just doesn't happen. I'm very upset by the result and clearly Toney is past his best, but I am going to wait on knowing what the deal is with the leg first. There has to be a reason why Toney was so tragic and relying on the ONE counter move all night.

[Gandalf]

The leg slip was obvious, we all saw it. Toney hurt himself, I commented on it. Now if he couldn't pivot properly then that takes away half of your gameplan. That has to have been a factor in Toney's performance.

I just cannot buy that he was simply THAT shot. This is James Toney! Since when does Toney not land ANY meangingful punches?

It doesn't add up. Sure he can lose, but he can land a few on the way to losing a decision. It just doesn't add up.

[Gandalf]

Now I've just seen the interview and Toney mentioned it, but didn't want to bitch about it. The man hurt his leg and fought with one leg. That is seemingly quite clear. It would also explain everything in the performance too. Toney is not what he was, but he was injured and wouldn't do a Hopkins.

[Gandalf]

I'm seeing it quite differently now and see a reason and logic behind what happened this evening. Toney is old, but it isn't simply because he got old. He fucked himself up early on and battled on through. Since when has Toney ever pushed the quit button? And even in doing that his opponent couldn't stop him.

[p4pking]

Actually it completely does add up, the weight he lost was clearly as much muscle as fat(if he managed to shed any). The fact that he may have been that size or smaller at one point is moot considering he has spent the last 8 or 9 years well above this weight.
He looked absolutely useless from the very opening moments of the fight , and has shown steady decline for many years now. It was very clear he wasn't going to be generating any power at all and even his punch resistance looked to have seriously waned. He could still slip punches on muscle memory and due to Lebedevs being fairly average, thats about it. Just because there has been a slew of guys operating on a high level into their forties lately doesn't take away what it means for most people, especially those who have never taken care of their body in the first place and have serious medical issues as a result of concussions etc.
There was also no real precident of a guy dropping that much weight at his age and not being a complete shell.

[Gandalf]

Toney did the same thing in Peter 2 but got the injury in training and wouldn't postpone. There is a clear logic to it all. Toney quite simply doesn't look that bad....ever. Peter 2 is the last time he ever looked that bad. Even in his poorest form he is typically competitive to some degree.

Would anyone suggest that Lebedev could beat Sam Peter....even today? No, Lebedev would be hit hard and often and yet suddenly Toney cannot do that against Lebedev even in double digits?

This was just wrong.

[p4pking]

Even if you want to attribute a good part of his performance to the "injury", that in itself was probably a result of what terrible condition he was in. Noone can operate entirely on skill alone, you have to be physically capable if you want to beat anyone remotely decent.

[p4pking]

Toney did the same thing in Peter 2 but got the injury in training and wouldn't postpone. There is a clear logic to it all. Toney quite simply doesn't look that bad....ever. Peter 2 is the last time he ever looked that bad. Even in his poorest form he is typically competitive to some degree.

Would anyone suggest that Lebedev could beat Sam Peter....even today? No, Lebedev would be hit hard and often and yet suddenly Toney cannot do that against Lebedev even in double digits?

This was just wrong.

Sure Miles, make Sam Peter drop down to 199 pounds and see how he holds up

[Gandalf]

Actually it completely does add up, the weight he lost was clearly as much muscle as fat(if he managed to shed any). The fact that he may have been that size or smaller at one point is moot considering he has spent the last 8 or 9 years well above this weight.
He looked absolutely useless from the very opening moments of the fight , and has shown steady decline for many years now. It was very clear he wasn't going to be generating any power at all and even his punch resistance looked to have seriously waned. He could still slip punches on muscle memory and due to Lebedevs being fairly average, thats about it. Just because there has been a slew of guys operating on a high level into their forties lately doesn't take away what it means for most people, especially those who have never taken care of their body in the first place and have serious medical issues as a result of concussions etc.
There was also no real precident of a guy dropping that much weight at his age and not being a complete shell.

Valid points and I agree, but you saw him in those early rounds shaking his knee like a boxer doesn't do. It was like Tyson/Williams. And yet in this instance, Toney worked his way through. My mind is changing completely. If Toney was really injured, then he did alright.

We have no idea what the damage is and Toney is a true warrior unlike Hopkins. He has no quit in him. I was rude in condemning Toney earlier, but it was understandable. I will stall in those judgements though until I know of the true extent of Toney's injury.

I think the injury explains everything though. He was never supposed to be this bad

[Nameless]

Miles,

Toney is 43. Toney NEVER took care of his body. Toney did drop around 150 pounds way too fast. Do I have to draw you a sketch? I said it a while ago when we were talking about this fight, Toney would eat a beating. The first boxers lose are reflexes, now if you never take care of business before being a senior boxer (ie over 35-36) this dramatically hurts. Look ar RJJ, even by taking a proud care of his body, the man now is the shell of the one he once was, sometimes with a few flashes from the past but that's about. Now what do you imagine about a fatty who did burn 150 pounds in a year? That's a fuck** load to lose for a guy who,s 43 and therefore should be retired a while ago. There is no surprises here, no excuses to find. It's just the normal course of history.

[p4pking]

I think cognitive dissonance explains everything personally. DE NILE aint just a river in Egypt you know

[Rantcatrat]

I imagine there will be a anti-Lebedev backlash because he has now punished two American former stars. Lebedev isn't shite. That's ridiculous. He isn't great but he's not shite. Seriously, I consider Marco Huck to be a legitimate fighter and Lebedev gave him a run for his money. Go watch that fight before juding him. No one said Danny Green was shite and Danny Green has done less than Lebedev. My theory is people hate Lebedev because he probably has the ugliest face in boxing.

[Gandalf]

So nobody saw James Toney hurt his leg early on and shake it about a number of times? Nobody heard him mention it after the fight and then walk off?

I admit that he lost and lost horribly. My comments are there in this thread. I was dismayed.

But I have also questioned why he looked so bad and in truth Toney has never looked even remotely that shot ever before.

You can have a scrap with your younger brother and you don't miss him by a meter. Toney was doing that all night and falling over anytime he was pushed back.

There was clearly something wrong with him. It wasn't just age.