General Election 2015

[El Kabong]

Awww, I guess you're right Lyle. Fuck those war vets who can't work because of what they've been through and get screwed by the government. Fuck those unfortunate people who haven't had the privilege of good schools and a college education. Fuck everyone who isn't already among the wealthy. When it comes to the opportunity to redistribute wealth, the US is one of the most disproportionately balanced countries in the world. If you're rich, you're likely to stay rich. If you're poor, you're pretty much gonna stay poor. You've got a better chance of joining the equivalent of the wealthy elite in Swaziland, Central African Republic, South Africa, Haiti and even Cambodia than you do in the United States.

I'm not taking you seriously, I'm just putting forward the case why nobody else should take political tips from across the pond.

If you literally cannot work due to what has happened to you there's something called "Disability" in which you are taken care of by tax payers. However, with the poor economy there has been a spike of citizens claiming disability....over 10 million Americans are claiming disability at the moment. A smidge excessive wouldn't you imagine? Add that to the 92 million Americans who have dropped out of the labor force altogether and you'll see that's roughly 1/3rd of the American population that is no longer able to work, no longer working, and no longer looking for work.

Good schools, ah but the government provides schooling does it not? And the government also closes off school choice (not sure if you have this issue overseas) so IF a child was in a bad school district and although they might be eligible for scholarships to better PRIVATE schools, the government says "Nay, nay" and the child is forced to go to the poor public school.

Mobility works both ways, I have a cousin that pissed away $15 MILLION in his lifetime, when he dies he will leave his children nothing....nothing IF THEY ARE LUCKY! (because he could leave them massive debt). My own family (to answer your first question before we get to the details: we never got to touch 1 single solitary cent of that $15 mil, and although I would have loved a chance to spend that cash [who wouldn't?] I'm thankful for what I have and what I earn)....so my family has been between the very wealthy and the very poor, we've come very close to losing the roof over our heads and from a position of decent wealth too (showing that YES you can be well off and lose everything) but we've scratched and clawed our way back up the ladder (yes, upward mobility, it CAN be done, I've seen it, I've lived it).

You've no doubt got facts to back up your suggestion that upward mobility is easier in those 3rd world countries?


My political and economic stance is viewed as "harsh", "draconian". Am I opposed to giving time and money to charities? Hell no, I am a happy, smiling, willing participant in giving back to my community and to those in need. If I need to give money I give money, if I need to give my blood I give my blood, if I need to give my time I give my time, my strength, my advice, etc I give from myself, from my hard work...but the government gives from my hard work as well, they don't do a very good job of limiting waste and fraud, but I suppose pointing that out makes me a bad person. I suppose having a community rally together and support each other on their own without the intrusion of the government is a bad thing? Teaching those who have, to share what they have of their own free will is a HORRIBLE suggestion right? That's what I advocate.

Behavioral Psychology helps shape my view of politics and economics. If you take the time to understand Behavioral Psych then you'll understand my take on things. Behavioral Psychology is used in training be it children or pets or what have you. Let's use a dog as an example, let's say you're training your dog to sit. It's a simple enough task that involves a direction, an action, and a reward and it's typically always in that order. Direction then action, then reward. You want the dog to sit, you direct the dog to sit via verbal command, hand signal, whatever...the dog completes the action and is then rewarded. The dog learns if they complete an action when directed they will be rewarded and boom that training session is over and done with. You don't give the dog the treat first, you don't give a direction and then give the dog the treat figuring the dog will accomplish the task afterwards. Now you treat a citizen the way the government does, when the person is unemployed you pay them before they get another job which is fine and necessary but when those benefits last for 99 weeks, it gets to the point where a person is being "rewarded" for not working. Or in the case of welfare, if your income is above a certain level benefits are cut off which again, "rewards" shiftlessness, it "rewards" not doing 100%. Where's the motivation to improve oneself if the "rewards" flow whether you work or not?

I am FULLY aware of the plight of the less fortunate, but I will NEVER coddle able bodied adults because in my opinion that is the most demeaning thing you can do to a person. "Awwww honey, we don't need you doing this job, we're actually better off if you sit on the sidelines and stay out of our way, but don't worry, we'll take care of you"....part of a person's value is what they contribute, if I contribute nothing what does that make me?

[walrus]

Yes, America has issues with poverty but you need to take in account being poor in America is different than a lot of countries. Most of those living in poverty have housing, a car, tv, cable and despite what you've heard they have had access to free health care for many years. Catholic hospitals in the US write of billions every year in health care for the poor. If they have a child, all they have to do is sign a paper in its paid for. I'm not saying poverty is not a problem, you just need to look at the whole picture.

[superheavyrhun]

Over the last twenty years, the proportional wealth of the wealthy classes in the US has grown drastically compared to the proportional wealth of the poor and lower classes. The natural tendency of man is to try and provide for their children, but as more and more people try to skew the wheel in favour of their children through opportunities, contacts in the right places and better education, that proportional wealth gap will continue to grow.

You'll struggle to find a study looking at the topic that doesn't reflect that trend because the statistics all point in one direction.

On a selfish personal level, I see this happening in the UK, and it isn't something that is nice to see. The political class on the right wing, and to an extent on the left, reflects this trend for less social mobility, as fewer people from the lower ends of the spectrum appear to represent the people in Parliament. There are exceptions, but they are growing fewer.

"Disability" is the stick used to beat the poor over here too, and the right-wing press love any excuse to humiliate and berate someone why tries to play the system. However, this is such a small percentage of the overall welfare bill that it is almost irrelevant, while sneaking tax cuts for the upper class and negotiating down tax bills for hugely wealthy individuals and companies is barely given a mention.

[Gandalf]

Austerity is a prime example of all this. Attack the poor because the public school bankers were allowed to get away with rampant criminality. You see it with the Tories planning to tax the disabled and yet signing secret deals to let their mates to get away with tax evasion whilst HSBC continues to rape, murder and pillage unchecked.

I keep talking about revolution and if a Marie Antoinette moment isnt on the horizon then neo rentier feudalism is what it shall be. 50 percent youth unemployment in Greece isnt because people are lazy. It is because they have been royally shafted. Off with their heads. Viva bitcoin, cooperatives and social housing. Let the banks choke on the manufactured debt. It is time for something more sustainable.

[Kirkland Laing]

Viva bitcoin, cooperatives and social housing.

Greece lost literally 25% of its economy overnight. It has 25% unemployment and the purchasing power of the average family has fallen 50%. Greece has a strong and vibrant revolutionary Communist party, a hard left government, a strong anarchist movement/area of the capital city, a very effective anti-establishment domestic terrorist group, a revolution in the living memory of most of the population and a strong history of demonstrations , strikes and civil disobedience. Also a massive potential target for this anger in a very obviously corrupt elite class.

And absolutely zero sign of any popular uprising. You know what the world's elite class are thinking when they look at Greece? All that happens overnight in a country where you'd expect some kind of anti-elite reaction and there isn't one. So why don't we speed up the slow-motion changes we're making in the rest of the west, crush the welfare states and get on with the neo-feudalist programme much faster?


That's the obvious lesson to draw from what's happening in Greece.

[Master]

Bosses' letter backing Tories fuels business battle

The Conservatives have welcomed what they say is an "unprecedented" pre-election endorsement by business chiefs but Labour has dismissed the move.

More than 100 bosses signed a newspaper letter backing cuts in corporation tax and other policies since 2010, saying they had been "good for business".

Labour said the letter was "organised" by the Tories and it was "no surprise" that bosses wanted lower taxes.

It came as Labour promised new rights for workers on "zero-hours" contracts.

Ed Miliband said a future Labour government would guarantee zero-hours workers the right to a formal contract after 12 weeks of regular work, a move which he said would reduce economic insecurity but which was criticised by employers.

Election 2015: Bosses' letter backing Tories fuels business battle - BBC News

[Kirkland Laing]

If you literally cannot work due to what has happened to you there's something called "Disability" in which you are taken care of by tax payers. However, with the poor economy there has been a spike of citizens claiming disability....over 10 million Americans are claiming disability at the moment. A smidge excessive wouldn't you imagine? Add that to the 92 million Americans who have dropped out of the labor force altogether and you'll see that's roughly 1/3rd of the American population that is no longer able to work, no longer working, and no longer looking for work.

There's enough wrong in this post to take a book to answer but let's just look at the first really dumb thing you say. That 92 million includes everybody 16 or over in education and everybody under 65 and retired with money and everybody retired 65 or over, every disabled person and so on. This number is always a "record number" because the population is currently growing quite quickly and the baby boomer generation are all retiring, squeezing the working age share of the population down.

The fact is that in terms of social mobility -- the ability to be born into one socio-economic group and move upwards during your lifetime -- (what you're told is the American Dream) America comes dead last out of all industrialised countries. Dead fucking last.

Also, too. If you've got something to say about the British election you're welcome to post it here. Otherwise stop bringing your regulat garbage into every fucking thread.

[El Kabong]

There's enough wrong in this post to take a book to answer but let's just look at the first really dumb thing you say. That 92 million includes everybody 16 or over in education and everybody under 65 and retired with money and everybody retired 65 or over, every disabled person and so on. This number is always a "record number" because the population is currently growing quite quickly and the baby boomer generation are all retiring, squeezing the working age share of the population down.

The fact is that in terms of social mobility -- the ability to be born into one socio-economic group and move upwards during your lifetime -- (what you're told is the American Dream) America comes dead last out of all industrialised countries. Dead fucking last.

Also, too. If you've got something to say about the British election you're welcome to post it here. Otherwise stop bringing your regulat garbage into every fucking thread.

Oh I DARED to voice an opinion different than yours....oh dear, dear me, I am dreadfully sorry to upset you so.

Allow me to break down what I was saying...

Oh the +55's are starting to get MORE involved in the economy again Hmm, curious that. I do wonder why they wouldn't just retire...I mean the economy has been EPIC recently. And the youth staying in school, and the prime age workers also dropping out of the workforce, hmmm curious...it's almost like that graph has an agenda to prove you wrong. You should call up this ....U.S. "Census Bureau" and give them what for comrade!

Excuse me, did you say "ALWAYS A RECORD NUMBER"

...Always....like every single time? Because to ME....and this is JUST me lol.... it looks like that graph has some peaks and valleys which would of course suggest that....no, that number is NOT "ALWAYS A RECORD NUMBER"

When you say "dead last out of all industrialized countries. Dead fucking last."

....is the U.K. not industrialized? Because they seem to be worse off than the United States....but of course THAT couldn't be right as it flies in the face of your reality and we all know that YOUR reality is what really matters.

Yes I have views on the British elections as I am a citizen of the world....otherwise it would be silly for me to comment in such a thread seeing how I don't live in England, I mean who.....who would comment on the political and economic policies of a place where they don't live Kirkland? Whoever would do such a thing?

I'd say UKIP is the most Libertarian party: anti-prohibition on currently illegal drugs, clearing out excessive taxation, peace through strength in regards to the military , seeking mutually beneficial trade terms with the EU....but you likely want the polar opposite and certainly you're more than within your rights to want that, also if you dislike my posts you could just skip over them and not read them nor respond to them, but I don't want to tell you what to do as you wouldn't listen to reason anyway.

Well I hope this has been educational for you and good luck with getting through each day with your attitude....won't be long before someone stabs you in the throat with a spork because you're a whingy cunt but hey, you'll die as you lived....a whingy cunt

[superheavyrhun]

Lyle - you have the right to an opinion on British politics, in the same way that I have the right to an opinion on the United States. Even the study you have quoted there which does put the US slightly ahead of the UK states that American society is much "stickier" than most people think in the US.

The Equality Trust study does have the US behind the UK, but not by much, while the Gini coefficient that actually shows the inequality of the population's income is stark for the US.

As for the build up to the election, I always quite like it, and once again I'll be grabbing that £100 for being a counting assistant in my local area. The media buy in to far too much of the spin from both sides, but I guess its inevitable as they try to filter through the crap produced by an army of press officers. Personally, I really hope we don't swing to the right. Although UKIP's procession of embarrassing racists and MEP's milking the system is a joke, it doesn't seem to affect their polling stats. Their polling suggests they could even hold the balance of power, which could be a disaster if they get into bed with the Tories for five years.

[El Kabong]

I was about to say, given the grief Americans get for the doings of our leaders I sure as fuck am allowed to voice whatever I feel like about British politics.

[Gandalf]

Of course you can, Lyle. Say whatever you like. Kirkland sounds more like a banker with every post. Off with all their heads, every last one of them. And nationalise all property and destroy the monarchy and death to the banking wreckers. Labour and Tories and vile civil service careerists. UK forever.....without parliament or London.

[Master]

Election 2015: Leaders 'looking forward' to TV debate

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have all sounded upbeat ahead of their only TV election debate.

They each said they were "looking forward" to the TV clash which also features UKIP, the SNP, Greens and Plaid Cymru leaders for the first time.

It is the only time Conservative PM Mr Cameron and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg will face the others before 7 May.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon said the seven-way debate illustrated that "two-party politics at Westminster is over".

Norman Smith, BBC assistant political editor, said the stakes were in a way highest for Mr Cameron and Mr Miliband as the smaller parties had less to lose.

Election 2015: Leaders 'looking forward' to TV debate - BBC News

[Gandalf]

It is the most pointless election ever. Young people should rise up and destroy everything. It's a ponzi scheme for their rich parents. Fucking trash the entire country and slaughter all bankers. HSBC burn.

This is why I like 'Watching the wheels' by John Lennon. The young should be slaying this system. Instead they wait for their parents to die. I don't get it.

[Kirkland Laing]

There's enough wrong in this post to take a book to answer but let's just look at the first really dumb thing you say. That 92 million includes everybody 16 or over in education and everybody under 65 and retired with money and everybody retired 65 or over, every disabled person and so on. This number is always a "record number" because the population is currently growing quite quickly and the baby boomer generation are all retiring, squeezing the working age share of the population down.

The fact is that in terms of social mobility -- the ability to be born into one socio-economic group and move upwards during your lifetime -- (what you're told is the American Dream) America comes dead last out of all industrialised countries. Dead fucking last.

Also, too. If you've got something to say about the British election you're welcome to post it here. Otherwise stop bringing your regulat garbage into every fucking thread.

Oh I DARED to voice an opinion different than yours....oh dear, dear me, I am dreadfully sorry to upset you so.

Allow me to break down what I was saying...

Oh the +55's are starting to get MORE involved in the economy again Hmm, curious that. I do wonder why they wouldn't just retire...I mean the economy has been EPIC recently. And the youth staying in school, and the prime age workers also dropping out of the workforce, hmmm curious...it's almost like that graph has an agenda to prove you wrong. You should call up this ....U.S. "Census Bureau" and give them what for comrade!

Excuse me, did you say "ALWAYS A RECORD NUMBER"

...Always....like every single time? Because to ME....and this is JUST me lol.... it looks like that graph has some peaks and valleys which would of course suggest that....no, that number is NOT "ALWAYS A RECORD NUMBER"

When you say "dead last out of all industrialized countries. Dead fucking last."

....is the U.K. not industrialized? Because they seem to be worse off than the United States....but of course THAT couldn't be right as it flies in the face of your reality and we all know that YOUR reality is what really matters.

Yes I have views on the British elections as I am a citizen of the world....otherwise it would be silly for me to comment in such a thread seeing how I don't live in England, I mean who.....who would comment on the political and economic policies of a place where they don't live Kirkland? Whoever would do such a thing?

I'd say UKIP is the most Libertarian party: anti-prohibition on currently illegal drugs, clearing out excessive taxation, peace through strength in regards to the military , seeking mutually beneficial trade terms with the EU....but you likely want the polar opposite and certainly you're more than within your rights to want that, also if you dislike my posts you could just skip over them and not read them nor respond to them, but I don't want to tell you what to do as you wouldn't listen to reason anyway.

Well I hope this has been educational for you and good luck with getting through each day with your attitude....won't be long before someone stabs you in the throat with a spork because you're a whingy cunt but hey, you'll die as you lived....a whingy cunt

Numbers and percentages Woti. They're not the same thing. The reason for over half the percentage drop in the labour force participation rate since 2001 is the huge increase in the numbers of the retired population as the baby boomer generation start to retire.

And most surveys of major economies find that the US comes dead last in social mobility. The US has the saame level of social mobility as medieval England.

[El Kabong]

Numbers and percentages Woti. They're not the same thing. The reason for over half the percentage drop in the labour force participation rate since 2001 is the huge increase in the numbers of the retired population as the baby boomer generation start to retire.

And most surveys of major economies find that the US comes dead last in social mobility. The US has the saame level of social mobility as medieval England.

Alright...


http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti...hy_100840.html
That link is there, you aren't required to read all of it, I'll just give you a little dose of information from it.

" A popular view is that labor force participation is declining because older people are retiring. But since 2000 the labor force participation rates of workers 55 and over have been rising steadily, and the labor force participation rates of workers between 16 and 54 have been declining."

Your rebuttal?