Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
I just don't see Pavlik as a what people are saying he is. He is very predictable and telling. I think Roy fighting Pavlik would not be like Lacy. Remember Lacy doesn't just hit hard he also is about as strong of a fighter as you'll see. Lacy's body strength made Roy go to the ropes a lot more than he'd like. Pavlik hits hard but he isn't a strong body. So his pressure is more mobile. I think even this version of Roy would box circles around him. If Pavlik had the body strength he would have beaten BHop like Taylor did. Pavlik reminds me of Trinidad. Sharp strong punches but little body strength. I think you have to overpower Roy at this point. Of course, Pavlik has a puncher's chance against anyone though.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
I just don't see Pavlik as a what people are saying he is. He is very predictable and telling. I think Roy fighting Pavlik would not be like Lacy. Remember Lacy doesn't just hit hard he also is about as strong of a fighter as you'll see. Lacy's body strength made Roy go to the ropes a lot more than he'd like. Pavlik hits hard but he isn't a strong body. So his pressure is more mobile. I think even this version of Roy would box circles around him. If Pavlik had the body strength he would have beaten BHop like Taylor did. Pavlik reminds me of Trinidad. Sharp strong punches but little body strength. I think you have to overpower Roy at this point. Of course, Pavlik has a puncher's chance against anyone though.
Pavlik is light years ahead of Jeff Lacy.
As an example look at what Pavlik did to Taylor and then look at what Taylor did to Lacy.
Jeff Lacy hasn't convingly won a fight since losing to Calzaghe, you could make a serious case that he lost every single one 7 in a row, in fact its really hard to say he won more than one, the fight with Manfredo, his other wins were dubious decisions at best.
If Jones thought he could hang with Pavlik or dawson don't you think he'd be trying to get those guys rather than the Lacy's and Sheika's of the world?
When he's fought world class opposition since the Ruiz fight he's been overmatched and mostly dominated. Tarver should have had 3 wins against him, Johnson dominated him, Calzaghe dominated him.
You guys are just wishful thinking, just like when we were expecting the next Tyson comeback, or Holyfield comeback. It ain't going to happen I'm afraid, not against the world's best.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
I just don't see Pavlik as a what people are saying he is. He is very predictable and telling. I think Roy fighting Pavlik would not be like Lacy. Remember Lacy doesn't just hit hard he also is about as strong of a fighter as you'll see. Lacy's body strength made Roy go to the ropes a lot more than he'd like. Pavlik hits hard but he isn't a strong body. So his pressure is more mobile. I think even this version of Roy would box circles around him. If Pavlik had the body strength he would have beaten BHop like Taylor did. Pavlik reminds me of Trinidad. Sharp strong punches but little body strength. I think you have to overpower Roy at this point. Of course, Pavlik has a puncher's chance against anyone though.
agreed
ive never bought into the pavlik phenomena and never will do. A world class fighter will always beat pavlik and that`ll once more be proven when williams beats kelly up.
Even a 40year old jones would be just too big a task for pavlik. If kelly cant see a hopkins uppercut what chance does he have with a jones hook
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
roy by possible stoppage........pavlik will get to frustrated...ala hopkins fight....
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Jones late round TKO. Way to smart.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
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Originally Posted by
BoomBoom
At light heavy, Pavliks punches wouldnt effect RJJ. Roy would baffle him and Pavlik would get picked apart as the frusteration set in.I think Roy has a decent chin and he can take Pavliks best punches and shrug them off. Dont know that Pavlik, who ha little head movenent, could handle Roys snapping punches.
Really Boom?I mean his whole thing at prime was not getting hit clean...speed,instinct.Weight aside,To go in with Pavlik on who takes a better shot is to play with a forrest fire.Dont get me wrong....Roy of past could get under Pavlik,move off and have him running into shots but I just don't see
this Jones being able to get off clean and move out like he would have too over and over.
What it comes down to is the type of punch that hurts Jones. Jones may not be what he used to be, but his eyes are still very good. A predictable fighter has never beat him. Johnson, Tarver, Calzaghe, all got to him with punches he didnt see coming. All these guys used odd angles, Pavlik throw basic punches. He would see Pavliks punches coming and take them on the gloves and forearms. Roys defence isnt great but it works well for guys wo through textbook punches. The punches Roy gets hit with come around his gloves. Also foot placement is key. Pavlik is not fast on his feet and Roy would not let him set his feet to get off his power punches. He would stay a step ahead every time because he is a superior technitian and knows his range as good as anyone and can command the center of the ring even at 40. He is still strong enough, and stronger than Pavlik.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
lol all this "If Roy lays against the ropes he is gonna get KO'd" Didn't people say the same thing about the Lacy fight?
Roy hits a lot harder then Hopkins or Taylor and Pavlik has shown he doesn't have a "steel" chin either. Hopkins had him baffled and on queer street and hurt at times at 168 at 175 Roy would completely dismantle him.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
LOL Lacy's just not good, sorry to his fans but he's just completely lost whatever he once had, he barely beat Mendoza ffs. I think Roy laying against the ropes is a bad move against Pavlik but I didn't think it mattered against Lacy, I picked Jones to TKO him knowing that he'd lay on the ropes all night. He doesn't have the legs to stay in the center of the ring or move.
And Roy doesn't hit harder than Hopkins now. He just doesn't seem to get much on his punches these days.
Could Roy win? I guess. Kelly's got his vulnerabilities we all know that. But he's no Jeff Lacy. This Roy thing now is smoke and mirrors IMO. The Calzaghe fight was depressing and I'm not even a big fan and that was what a year ago?
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoomBoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoomBoom
At light heavy, Pavliks punches wouldnt effect RJJ. Roy would baffle him and Pavlik would get picked apart as the frusteration set in.I think Roy has a decent chin and he can take Pavliks best punches and shrug them off. Dont know that Pavlik, who ha little head movenent, could handle Roys snapping punches.
Really Boom?I mean his whole thing at prime was not getting hit clean...speed,instinct.Weight aside,To go in with Pavlik on who takes a better shot is to play with a forrest fire.Dont get me wrong....Roy of past could get under Pavlik,move off and have him running into shots but I just don't see
this Jones being able to get off clean and move out like he would have too over and over.
What it comes down to is the type of punch that hurts Jones. Jones may not be what he used to be, but his eyes are still very good. A predictable fighter has never beat him. Johnson, Tarver, Calzaghe, all got to him with punches he didnt see coming. All these guys used odd angles, Pavlik throw basic punches. He would see Pavliks punches coming and take them on the gloves and forearms. Roys defence isnt great but it works well for guys wo through textbook punches. The punches Roy gets hit with come around his gloves. Also foot placement is key. Pavlik is not fast on his feet and Roy would not let him set his feet to get off his power punches. He would stay a step ahead every time because he is a superior technitian and knows his range as good as anyone and can command the center of the ring even at 40. He is still strong enough, and stronger than Pavlik.
Jones will always hold a PHD and Masters over Pavlik when it comes to ring smarts and accomplishments.No doubts dude,but this is now.I have very little to base his rebirth on as if we are talking prime Roy here.?His legs are history and he's riding ropes for a reason.He has everything on his terms and pace over last two but Pavlik....in all of his one deminsional & predictable glory is a different animal.And I just dont think Roy can deal with solid pressure from top guys and certainly roll with a straight puncher,no matter what angle or demension they come from.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
LOL Lacy's just not good, sorry to his fans but he's just completely lost whatever he once had, he barely beat Mendoza ffs. I think Roy laying against the ropes is a bad move against Pavlik but I didn't think it mattered against Lacy, I picked Jones to TKO him knowing that he'd lay on the ropes all night. He doesn't have the legs to stay in the center of the ring or move.
And Roy doesn't hit harder than Hopkins now. He just doesn't seem to get much on his punches these days.
Could Roy win? I guess. Kelly's got his vulnerabilities we all know that. But he's no Jeff Lacy. This Roy thing now is smoke and mirrors IMO. The Calzaghe fight was depressing and I'm not even a big fan and that was what a year ago?
If you think Pavlik is going to smother Roy and throw 100 punches a round and use that for refence. Pavlik's performance against Hopkins was sad, and he is supposed to be in his prime.
Pavlik isn't so great that he would dominate Roy Jones Jr much less at 175. Pavlik's only chance would be to land that huge right hand how do we even know if Pavlik's power carries all the way up to 175 and Calzaghe at 168 hit Roy with everything he had and Roy also had a bad cut yet was never close to being stopped in that fight but Pavlik moving up two weight classes is gonna stop him by putting him up against the ropes and land the one hail mary shot that's gonna knock him out. Pavlik isn't even gonna do what Johnson did to Roy by smothering him with endless punches, Pavlik is gonna try to cut the ring off and measure Jones so he can land a bit right hand. Pavlik goes into a shell too similar to what people say Roy does when people throw their offense at him and it gets him in trouble at times. The difference is Roy doesn't have to worry about getting outworked if he goes into a shell all he has to do is watch for that right hand. But he can outwork Pavlik when Pavlik goes into a shell just as bad as people say Roy goes into.
I don't get why people acknowledge only Roy's chin and defensive lapses yet ignore Pavliks.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
lol all this "If Roy lays against the ropes he is gonna get KO'd" Didn't people say the same thing about the Lacy fight?
Roy hits a lot harder then Hopkins or Taylor and Pavlik has shown he doesn't have a "steel" chin either. Hopkins had him baffled and on queer street and hurt at times at 168 at 175 Roy would completely dismantle him.
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
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Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
LOL Lacy's just not good, sorry to his fans but he's just completely lost whatever he once had, he barely beat Mendoza ffs. I think Roy laying against the ropes is a bad move against Pavlik but I didn't think it mattered against Lacy, I picked Jones to TKO him knowing that he'd lay on the ropes all night. He doesn't have the legs to stay in the center of the ring or move.
And Roy doesn't hit harder than Hopkins now. He just doesn't seem to get much on his punches these days.
Could Roy win? I guess. Kelly's got his vulnerabilities we all know that. But he's no Jeff Lacy. This Roy thing now is smoke and mirrors IMO. The Calzaghe fight was depressing and I'm not even a big fan and that was what a year ago?
If you think Pavlik is going to smother Roy and throw 100 punches a round and use that for refence. Pavlik's performance against Hopkins was sad, and he is supposed to be in his prime.
Pavlik isn't so great that he would dominate Roy Jones Jr much less at 175. Pavlik's only chance would be to land that huge right hand how do we even know if Pavlik's power carries all the way up to 175 and Calzaghe at 168 hit Roy with everything he had and Roy also had a bad cut yet was never close to being stopped in that fight but Pavlik moving up two weight classes is gonna stop him by putting him up against the ropes and land the one hail mary shot that's gonna knock him out. Pavlik isn't even gonna do what Johnson did to Roy by smothering him with endless punches, Pavlik is gonna try to cut the ring off and measure Jones so he can land a bit right hand. Pavlik goes into a shell too similar to what people say Roy does when people throw their offense at him and it gets him in trouble at times. The difference is Roy doesn't have to worry about getting outworked if he goes into a shell all he has to do is watch for that right hand. But he can outwork Pavlik when Pavlik goes into a shell just as bad as people say Roy goes into.
I don't get why people acknowledge only Roy's chin and defensive lapses yet ignore Pavliks.
First, LOL at the last line, all people do on here is talk about Pavlik's defensive lapses. His chin, meh, its not the best in the world but he always recovers, I think he should at least be knocked out first before we grant him a glass jaw.
I don't think Pavlik will try to smother Jones like Lacy did. Lacy was perfect, put his head on Jones and threw looping punches, Jones could lay back against the ropes, rattle off flurries and left hooks to the head and body all night. Pavlik will back him into the ropes (or Jones will back himself into the ropes) and Pavlik will try to keep him on the defensive with the jab, attempt to land the right hand, some left hooks to the body. Its predictable but a lot more dangerous than Lacy, Roy at least has to worry about a jab in his face, and a straight right hand from Pavlik and will have to put himself in harm's way more often when he attacks.
And I think you would agree that Hopkins is more difficult sylistically for Pavlik right? I mean the last thing a guy like Pavlik wants is intelligent movement and a guy who's still the best in boxing at taking away a jab. Hopkins couldn't be more wrong for Pavlik. With Roy he still has things to worry about, but he's got a stationary target which is huge and as a result he can set his feet to punch, which is huge.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoomBoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Really Boom?I mean his whole thing at prime was not getting hit clean...speed,instinct.Weight aside,To go in with Pavlik on who takes a better shot is to play with a forrest fire.Dont get me wrong....Roy of past could get under Pavlik,move off and have him running into shots but I just don't see this Jones being able to get off clean and move out like he would have too over and over.
What it comes down to is the type of punch that hurts Jones. Jones may not be what he used to be, but his eyes are still very good. A predictable fighter has never beat him. Johnson, Tarver, Calzaghe, all got to him with punches he didnt see coming. All these guys used odd angles, Pavlik throw basic punches. He would see Pavliks punches coming and take them on the gloves and forearms. Roys defence isnt great but it works well for guys wo through textbook punches. The punches Roy gets hit with come around his gloves. Also foot placement is key. Pavlik is not fast on his feet and Roy would not let him set his feet to get off his power punches. He would stay a step ahead every time because he is a superior technitian and knows his range as good as anyone and can command the center of the ring even at 40. He is still strong enough, and stronger than Pavlik.
Jones will always hold a PHD and Masters over Pavlik when it comes to ring smarts and accomplishments.No doubts dude,but this is now.I have very little to base his rebirth on as if we are talking prime Roy here.?His legs are history and he's riding ropes for a reason.He has everything on his terms and pace over last two but Pavlik....in all of his one deminsional & predictable glory is a different animal.And I just dont think Roy can deal with solid pressure from top guys and certainly roll with a straight puncher,no matter what angle or demension they come from.
Pavlik wouldnt be able to effectively pressure Roy for 12 rounds, because he would be eating punches in the process. His gameplan would only work on paper but he doesnt have a plan B. Roy, even at 40, is faster and hits harder than anyone he has faced, aside from Hopkins. The second fastest and hardest puncher was Taylor. Taylor had him hurt, knocked down and baffled from time to time. Even Jeff Lacy would probably agree that Roy is harder to deal with. Pavlik is a bit overrated imo. He fought one slick veteran boxer and lost. Pavlik beats guys that he can find with his punches. He wont beat a great boxer or highly skilled former great boxer. Styles always make fights. I forgot that when I picked lacy to beat Roy, but it almost always is true.
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Jones just fought two punching bags and people are comparing Kelly to those punching bags and are saying what Hopkins did to Pavlik Jones could do UTTER NONSENSE Roy would be crazy to get in the ring with an elite puncher far less a world class puncher
