Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Wlad fought Barrett & McCline when they were relevant and Wlad beat David Haye. Monte Barrett also tagged the crap out of Valuev, McCline didn't win because he tore up his knee. Valuev wanted no part of Wlad or Vitali both of whom would have knocked him out.
sorry , i had a conversation with some1 so my reply was delayed .
Valuev was in d mood of carrying Barrett until Barrett took it serious , when he did it it was game over 4 him and Valuev stopped him quicker than Wlad did , didn't he ?
McCline tore his knee because of Valuev's power . D mere push from a Valuev punch can tear a man's knee , and McCline's legs r disproportionally small and weak . McCline is mainly roided bulked upper body . That increased d torque on his legs and knees even further .
D bottom line is that it happened due 2 Valuev's punches .
Yet again , Valuev stopped McCline quicker than Wladimir had .
I forgot Chagaev , whom came out of Hepatitis vs Wlad , out of shape whereas he was relatively in shape vs Valuev . But besides he's irrelevant because Valuev obviously didn't take it seriously on him . Valuev used as a circus show 4 Don King , "losing" or winning on demand and at will .
Usually taking it easy on opponents and intentionally slaking in training and 1 of d very few 2 not use PEDs b/c he didn't need it .
If fully motivated , serious and up 4 d challenge and aware of d risk , Valuev could stop each Klitschko . Imagine how he'd been if he actually lifted weights and trained on power punching .
Valuev did not fight d Klitschkos due 2d corruption of this sport and not because he feared either of them .
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
More out of a morbid curiousity than real interest, like driving slow past a multiple car wreck, but how do you actually determine achievement??? Mathmatical, names on a dart board? Very curious.
my h2h ranking is not based solely on achievements but also on how fights between d fighters c/would have gone like .
I also downrate fighters whom i know that ducked others as opposed 2 fighters whom fought a bunch of prime opponents from hell like Tucker had : McCall , Lewis , Douglas , Tyson and Akinwande all in their prime as well as some others that i probably forgot . And he wasn't stopped by neither of d names that i mentioned . He was only stopped when old against Ruiz as a result of cuts and when very old vs Herbie Hide , 13 years his junior .
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Well, I hope we can at least all agree with the OP that Muhammad Qawi is the 5th best P4P boxer of all time. Does seem clear.
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
More out of a morbid curiousity than real interest, like driving slow past a multiple car wreck, but how do you actually determine achievement??? Mathmatical, names on a dart board? Very curious.
my h2h ranking is not based solely on
achievements but also on
how fights between d fighters c/would have gone like .
I also downrate fighters whom i know that ducked others as opposed 2 fighters whom fought a bunch of prime opponents from hell like Tucker had : McCall , Lewis , Douglas , Tyson and Akinwande all in their prime as well as some others that i probably forgot . And he wasn't stopped by neither of d names that i mentioned . He was only stopped when old against Ruiz as a result of cuts and when very old vs Herbie Hide , 13 years his junior .
:cwm13: Sounds conflicted there bud. Fact and opinion is where the wheels come off the wagon. Tucker became a poster boy for heavyweight mediocrity and credit Don King with his many chances much more than actual merit late on I'd say, not to mention Seldon battered the crap out of him and stopped him. Must make Bruce a regular El diablo if Akinwande is from hell.
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
:cwm13: Sounds conflicted there bud. Fact and opinion is where the wheels come off the wagon. Tucker became a poster boy for heavyweight mediocrity and credit Don King with his many chances much more than actual merit late on I'd say, not to mention Seldon battered the crap out of him and stopped him. Must make Bruce a regular El diablo if Akinwande is from hell.
Tucker was nearly 37 by d time he fought Seldon FFS and was only stopped due 2 swelling around his eyes . What u did here is about as bad as discrediting Ray Leonard on d merit of his loss 2 Camacho .
If going d distance with prime McCall , Lewis , Tyson , Akinwande and stopping James Douglas is a mediocrity , then most of d so called "greats" were a notch below mediocre . Riddick Bowe wanted none of that combination of opponents despite i give him a good chance at stopping a well diminished Douglas and maybe even somehow beating Akinwande . Of course i do not think that he would have had no hope vs d rest . But Bowe's management/handlers thought otherwise .
Did u happen 2c McCall vs Tucker ? i can not find it . Same with d Akinwande fight .
Tucker was 7 years older than McCall , Lewis and Akinwande and 8 years older than Tyson which helps 2 explain d mediocrity of his per4mances against them which still deserve respect .
Very few if any throughout history had n opposition as strong as Tucker's and he still ended d way he had against them .
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
:cwm13: Sounds conflicted there bud. Fact and opinion is where the wheels come off the wagon. Tucker became a poster boy for heavyweight mediocrity and credit Don King with his many chances much more than actual merit late on I'd say, not to mention Seldon battered the crap out of him and stopped him. Must make Bruce a regular El diablo if Akinwande is from hell.
Tucker was nearly 37 by d time he fought Seldon FFS and was only stopped due 2 swelling around his eyes . What u did here is about as bad as discrediting Ray Leonard on d merit of his loss 2 Camacho .
If going d distance with prime McCall , Lewis , Tyson , Akinwande and stopping James Douglas is a mediocrity , then most of d so called "greats" were a notch below mediocre . Riddick Bowe wanted none of that combination of opponents despite i give him a good chance at stopping a well diminished Douglas and maybe even somehow beating Akinwande . Of course i do not think that he would have had no hope vs d rest . But Bowe's management/handlers thought otherwise .
Did u happen 2c McCall vs Tucker ? i can not find it . Same with d Akinwande fight .
Tucker was 7 years older than McCall , Lewis and Akinwande and 8 years older than Tyson which helps 2 explain d mediocrity of his per4mances against them which still deserve respect .
Very few if any throughout history had n opposition as strong as Tucker's and he still ended d way he had against them .
And Tucker was a week away from 38 when he lost to Akinwande who you seem to think a top form heavyweight. Shit is shit my man, it doesn't get better with age...nor to fit your agenda. Seldon bloodied his nose, fractured orbital bone and swelled him to returning little to no punches....who mentioned Bowe??? Frank...fuckin A son...so You've never actually watched McCall vs Tucker? but read about it on a forum or a comic book etc and think that qualifies as opinion? That b crazy.
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
:cwm13: Sounds conflicted there bud. Fact and opinion is where the wheels come off the wagon. Tucker became a poster boy for heavyweight mediocrity and credit Don King with his many chances much more than actual merit late on I'd say, not to mention Seldon battered the crap out of him and stopped him. Must make Bruce a regular El diablo if Akinwande is from hell.
Tucker was nearly 37 by d time he fought Seldon FFS and was only stopped due 2 swelling around his eyes . What u did here is about as bad as discrediting Ray Leonard on d merit of his loss 2 Camacho .
If going d distance with prime McCall , Lewis , Tyson , Akinwande and stopping James Douglas is a mediocrity , then most of d so called "greats" were a notch below mediocre . Riddick Bowe wanted none of that combination of opponents despite i give him a good chance at stopping a well diminished Douglas and maybe even somehow beating Akinwande . Of course i do not think that he would have had no hope vs d rest . But Bowe's management/handlers thought otherwise .
Did u happen 2c McCall vs Tucker ? i can not find it . Same with d Akinwande fight .
Tucker was 7 years older than McCall , Lewis and Akinwande and 8 years older than Tyson which helps 2 explain d mediocrity of his per4mances against them which still deserve respect .
Very few if any throughout history had n opposition as strong as Tucker's and he still ended d way he had against them .
And Tucker was a week away from 38 when he lost to Akinwande who you seem to think a top form heavyweight. Shit is shit my man, it doesn't get better with age...nor to fit your agenda. Seldon bloodied his nose, fractured orbital bone and swelled him to returning little to no punches....who mentioned Bowe??? Frank...fuckin A son...so You've never actually watched McCall vs Tucker? but read about it on a forum or a comic book etc and think that qualifies as opinion? That b crazy.
u didn't mention bowe , i just used him as n example 2 some1 whom is highly regarded by many with n extremely inferior resume 2 tucker's .
how do i get tucker vs mccall and i haven't read about it . have u seen it ? do u know anything about it ?
all i know is that it lasted 12 and tucker "won" by split decision which suggests a robbery more often than not .
also , McCall excelled vs big men , he sparked both Akinwande and Lewis and they were McCall's age . he beat David Jaco (whom stopped Ruddock) quite badly .
However , Tucker was 7 years older than McCall but still lasted 12 and probably was at least competitive . R U starting 2 get d true perspective / proportion of tucker's achievement in this ?
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
The fuck? Nicolay Valuev???
The only list regarding anything dealing with heavyweight boxers and "all-time" status that Valuev is at the top of the list for is "Largest Heavyweight Boxers of All-Time"....and I'm betting in his day Butterbean could beat him.
Valuev would have slapped Butterbean out / in2 submission like he did Monte Barrett .
Seemingly u never heard nor even watched d SNV doublepunch .
Valuev and Wladimir had 3 common opponents : Haye , McCline , Barrett .
Valuev did better at least against 2 of them .
Arguably vs all 3 .
Never stopped , never down as far as i know .
Valuev actually tried 2 keep his opponents' health and well being most of d time at least until he felt angered / hurt / threatened .
Valuev doesn't have his Schmelling & Markegiano / Puritty , Sanders & Brewster .
He doesn't even have a Byrd & Lewis .
Also , i believe that he would have been 2 tall 2b reached full force by most and 2 big and strong 4 most .
He is 1 of d very few it's hard 2 imagine getting stopped by any1 and i can c him stopping almost every1 if he fought 4eal .
Valuev was not 4eal because he did not want 2 keal .
OK... This guy is clearly doing a Fantana...
Duh way he types m4kes me reed in duh voyce of a retard.
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
OK... This guy is clearly doing a Fantana...
i know what u mean by this , IDK whether he is serious or not , but i m serious and my reasoning is posted 4 every1 2 read and is correct .
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Duh way he types m4kes me reed in duh voyce of a retard.
i thought it's d norm here ;D
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
While Frankie's list of top all-time heavyweights is certainly admirable, I have a list of my own. I only did the top 5, although it was tough to choose from so many worthy names out there. These can probably be interchanged as far as the order is concerned:
- Charley Retzlaff - Ended with a pretty respectable 61-8 record, 52 by KO. Started 20-0 before a DQ loss to Antonio de la Mata, a loss he later avenged with a 1st round KO. In 1936 he suffered a 1st round TKO to then undefeated phenom Joe Louis, but probably softened him up, because Louis went on to lose his very next fight (1st defeat) to Max Schmeling. Charley also had a real cool nickname, the "Duluth Dynamiter".
- Fireman Jim Flynn - Don't go by his record (46-41-18, with 38 wins by KO). Flynn recorded the first ever and only 1st round KO victory over Jack Dempsey. A loss avenged by Dempsey in the same fashion later, but Flynn still holds that distinction. He also fought notables like: Gunboat Smith, Battling Levinsky, Young Hector, Sargeant Jack Lynch, and Battling Butch. He lost by KO-3 to Sam Langford (166-26-37) in 1923, but avenged that loss in 1924 by only losing by points this time around.
- Leroy Haynes - Again don't go by the record (45-23-3, with 35 KO's). He had two TKO wins over Primo Carnera (TKO-3 and TKO-9) in 1936. No small feat considering Primo outweighed Haynes by 65 pounds in both their fights. Haynes would've had a better record, but stayed too long and went 2-11 in his last 13 fights.
- Joe "The Hammer" Askew - This native of Sydney, Australia retired undefeated with a record of 9-0 (5 KO's). He holds the distinction of defeating Samuel Panetu, a fighter weighing well over 500 pounds. He proceeded to then tear through 8 other opponents and cut a swath through the division between 1999 and 2001.
- Frank Finnegan - Speaking of heavyweights, Big Frank weighed in at around 465 pounds. Finnegan also retired undefeated, with a record of 3-0 (1 KO), all in 2001.
There's more deserving names out there... but I feel I should probably also come up with a top p4p list, although it probably won't be as good as Frankie's.
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
p4p (based on achievements post 1980) .
"Achievements due 2 cheating / vs hampered opponents do not count in this list"
1. Mike McCallum
2. James Toney
3. Oliver McCall
4. David Tua
5. Muhammad Qawi
6. Jorge Fernando Castro
7. Orlin Norris
8. Chris Byrd
9. Reggie Johnson
10. Mike Hunter
11. Salvador Sanchez
12. Juan LaPorte
13. Julio Cesar Chavez
14. Hector Camacho
15. Shane Mosley
16. Isufu Quartey
17. Lovermore Ndou
18. Jose Luis Ramirez
19. Pernell Whitaker
20. Dingaan Thobella
21. Orzubek Nazarov
22. Emanuel Pacquiao
23. Juan Manuel Marquez
24. Vince Phillips
25. Frankie Randall
26. Leo Gamez
27. Jesus Rojas
28. Santos Benigno Laciar
29. Bebis Rojas
30. Yober Ortega
31. Luis Mendoza
32. Carl Froch
33. Steve Collins
34. Chris Eubanks
35. Glen Johnson
36. Dwight Davison
37. Marlon Starling
38. Simon Brown
39. Jose Luis Lopez
40. Aaron Davis
41. Sanderline Williams
42. Michael Carbajal
43. Jose Luis Lopez
44. Johnny Tapia
45. Orlando Canizales
46. Paulie Ayala
47. Yuri Arbachakov
48. Melchor Cob Castro
49. Erik Morales
50. Azumah Nelson
51. Khaosai Galaxy
52. Sung-Kil Moon
53. Nobuhiro Ishida
54. Robbie Sims
55. Gerald McClellan
56. Sumbu Kalambay
57. Michael Nunn
58. Tony Thornton
59. Merqui Sosa
60. Herman Ngoudju
Where the hell is El Finito!
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
No answer yet?
Why is Ricardo Lopez with 52 fights 51 wins and one draw not there?
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Clearly a nutter!!
clearly... and im new here.
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
No answer yet?
Why is Ricardo Lopez with 52 fights 51 wins and one draw not there?
because every name included in my list deserves it better ?
and because d answer is in my top fighters from every country thread . i don't have him in my top 10 of Mexico either .
most of d reasons r in that thread :
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...y-country.html
enjoy my replies 2 your friends' spam , until i stopped replying 2d spammers that is .
ignore my replies and i will ignore yours .
Re: Post your list in this thread prior to arguing with someone else's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
No answer yet?
Why is Ricardo Lopez with 52 fights 51 wins and one draw not there?
because every name included in my list deserves it better ?
and because d answer is in my top fighters from every country thread . i don't have him in my top 10 of Mexico either .
most of d reasons r in that thread :
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...y-country.html
enjoy my replies 2 your friends' spam , until i stopped replying 2d spammers that is .
ignore my replies and i will ignore yours .
You do know he fought for and defended WBC title 21 times then fought the undefeated WBO champ to unify; then fought the undefeated WBA champ that was a technical draw due to an accidental head butt.
So what does he do? He fights him again,this time Alverez comes in over weight and cant win anyway, Lopez is champ by default: but Lopez being a champion takes him on anyway and beats him, then he vacates all titles moving up in weight and takes the IBF world title from the reining champ in the next division up,two defenses later he faces Zolani petello who had held the Ibf in the weight below (the only one he didnt get to fight for ) So now he lopez beats him at the next weight up retaining the Ibf then Lopez retires undefeated.
Whats not to love?
