After watching a prime Roy Jones on TV last night he was far from unbeatable.

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Originally Posted by smashup

I clearly remember a post fight jones interview..one of his fights (post G-man v Benn) where he did "enough" and he said "i will only extend myself in a fight if neccesary"
That for me was and still is a blatant admission of unwilligness to mix it and go to war in the ring if he could avoid it and looking back it's clearly the case in a lot of his fights..
The G-Man tradgedy put the fear of god in him and STILL to this day he has not seen Gerald for fear of what it'll do to him mentally.
He also mentioned this in a recent interview;)
Once i heard him say that a long time ago i kinda lost some respect for him but fully understand where he's coming from.
Jones and Gerald were tight back in the day:)

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He said something similiar after his dull fight with Fermin Chirino.The crowd was booing at the end and he got a bit flip...something along the lines of I don't fight for the fans or something.That was all I needed to here ;D.And that was prior to the Tragedy.I think Benn/Mcclellan fight effected him quite a bit as well.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I ended up thinking the same to be honest.

Benn would have seriously got fucked up though ;D

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Lol - Benn is possible my favourite fighter ever, but he is overrated imo

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Maybe I'm off my med's ;D but I would have given Benn an even power shot if that ever came off.I can envision a much more sound Jones feigning and timing Benn to a tee...one of those lightning rights dropping Benn But equally I can see Benn mucking up and making it rough on Jones early and should he have found the sweet spot,Jones would have been hurt bad.Jones timed pressure guys great but Brannon,Sosa,Thorton,Paz type pressure was minor league compared to a proven head caver like Benn.I don't think he wanted any part of Benn after the McClellan tragedy,even with all of Benn's lapses.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Alright i see your points also for the best fighters of the 90s and the also the 00 there an argument for Oscar and Shane because Oscar was pound for pound in 97, 98 Roy was top in the year 96, 99 not to mention JCC and Pernell. Then Shane was pound for pound 00,01 and then Roy was 03 not to mention Mayweather and Bernard were up more years as well. If you look over the last 10 or 20 years alot of people have a say over as the best fighter pound for pound if you ask me but that is up for debate.

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IMO its quite obvious that Shane MOsley and Oscar De LA Hoya were never as good as Roy JOnes Jr... Mosley couldn't handle going up in weight largely because of his technique and he just wasn't able to dominate outside his weightclass anywhere near to the same degree as Roy. Oscar has never done extremely well against the top level of competition. Both JCC and Pernell where boardering the 80's and 90's JCC wasn't the same fighter he was in the 80's He got toyed with by Pernell Whitaker, Oscar beat him up twice.

Roy Jones was the boxer of the 90's there is no arguement about it, he is the only guy from the 90's anybody dared to judge to the likes of Leonard, Hagler, Hearns.

People are arguing about what Roy did at light heavywieght, he was a natural MW/SMW... and he still dominated guys way bigger than him in a way we have never seen. I agree Pernell could make guys miss and control the ring from one aspect like Roy, but he couldn't put on an offensive to go along with it. HE didn't have that lightining speed or those throwback combinations.

I still think Pernell and Mayweather are the best under 140 fighters I have ever seen. Maybe because there are no films of prime pep or Armstrong, but regardless Pernell is a great fighter, but people forget

Roy Jones Jr was great defensively(arguably as hard to hit cleanly as anyone the sport has ever seen). He's probably the best offensive fighter since prime Thomas Hearns(in some ways even better). He had speed we had never seen before, and overall we might still have not seen comparable speed in every aspect (reflexes, footspeed, handspeed).

Probably the most inventive combination the sport has ever had, he would throw punches together that would make you wonder if it was a video game, he would throw ridiculous combinations as if they were nothing. He would counter faster then anyone ever has.

You can say the people Roy fought at LHW weren't A class fighters, but he sure beat the shit out of B class fighters in a way nobody had been able to.

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Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULL

i've always felt roy was overrated......i think he did well at a time when there really was no other A class fighters in his division, he never fought the guy that was seen as the ligit light heavy champ saying HE'S the man so doesn't have to go fight some other belt holder.............. and the fact he never gave hopkins and toney rematchs says alot.........why did he leave the mid and super mids so quickly and go the a redundent l heavy

still he was very fast, but cant take a good shot, had good skills and very popular with fans

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He took enough shots in his prime that people knew he could take a punch. Also you should get your facts straight, Hopkins always bullshitted his way out of the rematch, I honestly don't think he wanted it. Roy let HBO try to get any fight with him based on a 60/40 or 70/30 split(with lesser fighters) and HBO thought it was reasonable, but before one of Roy's fights I think against Brannon they acknowledged that nobody would fight Roy.

HERE IT IS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjvBq...eature=related
Chris Collin, Nigel Benn, Frankie Lyle, and Hopkins was hesistent
but they wouldn't fight him like I said.

I'm sorry but what a bunch of Gimmicky circus crap.I remember HBO was all over Roy's shaft.Brannon had no business being a mandatory and point of fact is Roydid not Need to risk more with this sort of warm partnership afforded to himself.

And what was up with Tony Pages reference to a wheel chair,"is that your only chance of respect" :bucktooth: Set-up

Look teath have to disagree Oscar looked not so super because his competion was leagues above Roys i mean come on now look at the wins. Even with Oscars Loses he has a way better resume then Roy does look how many wins he has over champions or former champions way better.

I remember in 96 when the ring did a suppliment on Mike Tyson, with pictures of him at home and with his white tigers, they were interviewing him about all sorts, even stuff like would he fight Eric Esch and Mike ust politly laughed it off but they also asked him about Roy, telling him that Roy says he has no decent opposition then Mike comes out with,
"Thats not true at all, theres Nigel Benn!"

At that point Benn was both massively known and big time faded, so Roy was stupid not to make the fight.

Just a thought Teath if we are talking about who was the better fighter then i think Oscar when he was at the lower weights was just as good.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

yeh i was dthinking the same thing watching it.. dont get me wrong great fighter, but far from unbeatable..

I also feel that calzaghe would of given him a real test.. he would of bin all over Roy like a rash..

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Fighters who swarmed Roy Jones Jr in his prime got slaughtered.

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I agree 100%...

Out of curiosity...I would like the detractors to name guys that they feel would have beaten Roy at 168...His true prime...

Not given a good fight but beat him......

Every fighter is beatable no matter who they are....Just have not seen the man able to do it..

After I posted this threat I thought I would get more incoming fire than a small Afganistan village.

But I am plesently supprised that a lot of you agree that Jones was not unbeatable and there were fighters out there if given the chance might have beaten him at his prime.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Just a thought Teath if we are talking about who was the better fighter then i think Oscar when he was at the lower weights was just as good.

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The one that was either hurt or knocked down a few times early on?, had a tough fight with Genaro Hernandez?

He wasn't as good. Why did Roy Jones win best fighter of the decade, If you are comparing Lower weights Oscar to lower weights Roy, Roy wins for sure, and Oscar was just growing up, He was naturally a WW, Roy was naturally a SMW, and he dominated above that at LHW. against good B class fighters.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

I'm sorry but what a bunch of Gimmicky circus crap.I remember HBO was all over Roy's shaft.Brannon had no business being a mandatory and point of fact is Roydid not Need to risk more with this sort of warm partnership afforded to himself.

And what was up with Tony Pages reference to a wheel chair,"is that your only chance of respect" :bucktooth: Set-up

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Nobody else would fight him. Did you watch the whole thing? Why wouldn't HBO be able to get a fight for 7 figures with Nigel Benn or Chris Collins or Frankie Lyles? And this was just an example fo it. B-Hop was too pig headed, he didn't deserve the fight with Roy with him getting 50/50, but he wouldn't fight Roy unless he got that. It wasn't just B-Hop's fault, but as a guy trying to face the p4p #1, you have to make the sacrifices especially if they are the bigger draw.

Mayweather was p4p #1 yet he fought Oscar at 154, he fought Gatti at 140 in his home town.

Its the less known guys job to make the fight, not the more popular guy. If you want to call somebody out you have to make the sacrifice. Also I don't think Roy was that much bigger then Bernad, I just think Bernard worked very hard to stay at MW, lately Bernard has been just as big as Roy ever was at LHW.

I am not trying to argue that Roy JOnes Jr. is unbeatable. I think p4p Ray Robinson beats him, I think Floyd Mayweather makes a good arguement, I think Pernell Whitaker style wise gives him a good fight. I think Sandy Saddler p4p, Roberto Duran, Leonard, Hearns, all p4p give Roy a good fight. Among others.

But what I am saying is that Roy was the best of the 90's Though his skill level was comparable to some, I think the one test of how good they are is how long, how heigh in weight they can climb and maintain that dominance. However in the 90's I think there were two fighters who were relatively close to Roy and that was Hopkins and Whitaker. I think Dela Hoya and Mosley and Ricardo Lopez followed after them. In the 2000's the closest guys have been Mayweather(who I have on the Pernell/Hopkins level) and Winky Wright(who I have between MOsly/Oscar and the top level). Then there is Pacquaio and then Joe Calzaghe.

Roy Jones jr though had the biggest tool set both physically and in terms of effectiveness. I think he is a chin or a win away from being a p4p great(I mean top 20).

Well if we are going to judge it by the weight thing i would have to say Evander was a better fighter then Roy when it came pound for pound. Not only did he start at the weight 175 but moved up to win the Hw champsionship more then anyother heavyweight has ever done before. Some times he was 30 pounds less then the guys he was fighting. Some of those guys were over 70 pounds heavier then his starting divsion was. But i never see Evander in the top 10 which is fine because he should be in like the top 20 when we are talking pound for pound he is that.

Also never answered my question do you think Roy competion was better then Oscars and even with Oscars loses he still has better overall wins.

Obviously Oscar De La Hoya had the best opposition since probably Muhammad Ali, but he didn't look that great against anybody near his caliber, yet Roy beat Hopkins quite easily, and he dominated Mike MaCcallum, James Toney, and Reggie Johnson. My point is that Oscar didn't dominate his better competition the way Roy did. He beat them, but Whitaker and JCC were older and much naturally smaller then Oscar. Had a rough fight with Quartey, a rough fight with Vargas, Mosley beat him. I think OScar was always a great fighter, but when he fought his best opposition he never stood out, yet Roy fought better, and dominated more against better opposition.
He didn't even try that hard against MaCcallum and won virtually every round, a guy who went on to fight very well against James Toney. Look what Roy did to MOntell Griffin in their rematch. Montell Griffin totally outboxed James Toney. He also fought a really good fighter in Virgill Hill, guess what happened? 4th round ko. He fought a good fighter in Julio Gonzalez, beat him up for 12 rounds and knocked him down three times. He fought a good fighter in Eric Harding who had just outboxed Antonio Tarver, Roy beat him in a tough fight, but Harding quit, and Jones was ahead by 2 to 6 rounds on scorecards. He beat a good fighter in Clinton Woods who was almost as good as Glen Johnson, but people thought he should retire because Roy dominated him so thoroughly. Roy then went up and beat John Ruiz(who I believe beat Evander HOlyfield) and won almost every round including hurting John Ruiz. He came back down beat Tarver after badly weight draining himself. Then the bad stuff happened. But before that these were all good fighters, who continued to be good and he made them look like Oscar made club fighters look.

People need to stop underrating Roy's opposition he fought the best guys at 175, except Dariusz who wouldn't come over to face him(A guy Juilio Gonzalez beat twice). But you can't unify the belt without fighting goood fighters and Roy had to beat Reggie Johnson, Virgill Hill, Loui Devalle, and Montell Griffin to unify the belt those are bad fighters.

Evander Holyfield never weighed 175 for a fight, and he fought around LHW 4 times, Roy Jones Jr fought at 154 for 20 some fights. That would make Roy at 154 pounder naturally if you are going by that. In fact Roy fought more fights at 154 then Holyfield fought at 175ish and crusierweight combined. I think Evander Holyfield at heavyweight was equivalent to Roy at 175, but look what happened

I felt Quawi beat him the first time they fought at cruiserweight
Riddick Bowe beat him in their trilogy
Michael Moorer even beat him.
He beat an old George Foreman who wasn't bad, but wasn't even close to what he was. He beat shell of the real Mike Tyson, He beat Buster Douglas, but besides the Tyson fight was largely a joke, he fought a good Ray Mercer, but that was good close fight. Lennox Lewis stomped him the first time, and the second time I still felt Lennox won.

Then at the end of the 90's Evander lost twice IMO to Lennox Lewis.

He isn't even in the arguement though, as great as he is. I have never heard of anybody who thought Evander HOlyfield was as good p4p as Roy Jones Jr.

Many people would argue Holyfield was one of the guys Roy Jones jr could go up to heavyweight and beat.

Make an arguement for Pernell Whitaker if you want, but otherwise in the 90's I don't there is another candidate that comes close.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Roy beat Hopkins quite easily,

People need to stop underrating Roy's opposition he fought the best guys at 175, except Dariusz who wouldn't come over to face him(A guy Juilio Gonzalez beat twice).

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Roy didnt beat Hopkins easy and why would Dariusz want to come over to fight a guy that Tarver beat Twice?

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

Did you watch the ROy JOnes jr- Bernard Hopkins fight? By the middle Roy was landing 50% of his shots to like 20% connection for Bernard. A few times Bernard thought he had Roy figured out only to come out the next round and have Roy make the adjustments that would totally throw Bernard off again. All this was done without him being able to throw his right cross effectively. He was throwing it with an open hand all night. Roy wasn't as effective as he was in some fights, but he still won almost every round until he took off the last few, and he was still just as green as Bernard was, it took him like 5-6 rounds to even open up. Bernard couldn't deal with his speed or elusiveness. Which is the key point ,Roy wasn't just speed, he was as elusive as anyone, thats what him different in some ways from guys like Ali, Leonard, Michael Nunn, is that Roy was extremely hard to hit anywhere, while the other guys weren't quite as concerned about getting hit.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

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It's unfair to sum up a guy's career based off one loss in his mid 30s when he was obviously past his prime and on the way down. That'd be like judging Roy Jones' whole hall of fame career by the Glen Johnson defeat. Completely unfair. Prime Michalczewski would beat Gonzalez hands down.

Exactly, I put about the Tarver losses in reply to the Gonzales losses, some people are gonna be crying about their superman Jones come Sunday.

Boo Hoo, Roy lost again!!!?? How did that happen? We didnt see that coming!!!?? This must mean Joe is really, really good!!

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

Did you watch the ROy JOnes jr- Bernard Hopkins fight? By the middle Roy was landing 50% of his shots to like 20% connection for Bernard. A few times Bernard thought he had Roy figured out only to come out the next round and have Roy make the adjustments that would totally throw Bernard off again. All this was done without him being able to throw his right cross effectively. He was throwing it with an open hand all night. Roy wasn't as effective as he was in some fights, but he still won almost every round until he took off the last few, and he was still just as green as Bernard was, it took him like 5-6 rounds to even open up. Bernard couldn't deal with his speed or elusiveness. Which is the key point ,Roy wasn't just speed, he was as elusive as anyone, thats what him different in some ways from guys like Ali, Leonard, Michael Nunn, is that Roy was extremely hard to hit anywhere, while the other guys weren't quite as concerned about getting hit.

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REwatch the bhop fight bro. It was far from easy.
I rewatched it and to my suprise, i actually have bhop winning this time!

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

Did you watch the ROy JOnes jr- Bernard Hopkins fight? By the middle Roy was landing 50% of his shots to like 20% connection for Bernard. A few times Bernard thought he had Roy figured out only to come out the next round and have Roy make the adjustments that would totally throw Bernard off again. All this was done without him being able to throw his right cross effectively. He was throwing it with an open hand all night. Roy wasn't as effective as he was in some fights, but he still won almost every round until he took off the last few, and he was still just as green as Bernard was, it took him like 5-6 rounds to even open up. Bernard couldn't deal with his speed or elusiveness. Which is the key point ,Roy wasn't just speed, he was as elusive as anyone, thats what him different in some ways from guys like Ali, Leonard, Michael Nunn, is that Roy was extremely hard to hit anywhere, while the other guys weren't quite as concerned about getting hit.

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REwatch the bhop fight bro. It was far from easy.
I rewatched it and to my suprise, i actually have bhop winning this time!

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What you have Hopkins beating Roy Jones?

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

Did you watch the ROy JOnes jr- Bernard Hopkins fight? By the middle Roy was landing 50% of his shots to like 20% connection for Bernard. A few times Bernard thought he had Roy figured out only to come out the next round and have Roy make the adjustments that would totally throw Bernard off again. All this was done without him being able to throw his right cross effectively. He was throwing it with an open hand all night. Roy wasn't as effective as he was in some fights, but he still won almost every round until he took off the last few, and he was still just as green as Bernard was, it took him like 5-6 rounds to even open up. Bernard couldn't deal with his speed or elusiveness. Which is the key point ,Roy wasn't just speed, he was as elusive as anyone, thats what him different in some ways from guys like Ali, Leonard, Michael Nunn, is that Roy was extremely hard to hit anywhere, while the other guys weren't quite as concerned about getting hit.

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REwatch the bhop fight bro. It was far from easy.
I rewatched it and to my suprise, i actually have bhop winning this time!

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:confused::confused::confused: even bhop said he lost that one

Alright did not ask you how they looked i asked who had the best wins and to me that is Oscar and i think he should get some credit for it. Roy never had to step it up as much as Oscar did and Oscar had to do it alot. So dont you think but i can see your point still say Oscars higher.

As for Evander Holyfeild i say he is to cruiser what Roy is to Light heavy. It took alot to get Evander to make it Heavyweight he could of stayed at CW for alot more years but he would of not got the glory that he has. You say that Tyson was past it but Evander was older with a bad hart and still kicked the crap out of him and he was let me see 35 what was roy doing at 35 well let me see getting knocked the f*** out if i can remeber. Also the Lewis stomping him lets not forget that he was 37 and still with heart problems still has them i dont see how they could let him fight. Toney was weight drain to all hell when Roy fought him and Toney was not at his best not taking away form Roy just Toney had problems. Both him and Bernard were green and not prime so i kinda take that with a grain of salt neither was at his best and they never rematched so what ever. You bring up the close fight with Dwight but that was Evander 12 fight and we all saw what happen in the rematch he destroyed him so all i am saying why not Evander pound for pound he has done just as much but does not get the credit i think he should. I think you can poke holes through any mans career but i can say this Evander ducked no one i can not say the same for Roy and to me i think thats why i always like Evander better.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

As for Evander Holyfeild i say he is to cruiser what Roy is to Light heavy. It took alot to get Evander to make it Heavyweight he could of stayed at CW for alot more years but he would of not got the glory that he has. You say that Tyson was past it but Evander was older with a bad hart and still kicked the crap out of him and he was let me see 35 what was roy doing at 35 well let me see getting knocked the f*** out if i can remeber. Also the Lewis stomping him lets not forget that he was 37 and still with heart problems still has them i dont see how they could let him fight. Toney was weight drain to all hell when Roy fought him and Toney was not at his best not taking away form Roy just Toney had problems. Both him and Bernard were green and not prime so i kinda take that with a grain of salt neither was at his best and they never rematched so what ever. You bring up the close fight with Dwight but that was Evander 12 fight and we all saw what happen in the rematch he destroyed him so all i am saying why not Evander pound for pound he has done just as much but does not get the credit i think he should. I think you can poke holes through any mans career but i can say this Evander ducked no one i can not say the same for Roy and to me i think thats why i always like Evander better.

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Holyfield does not have heart problems. There were other things at issue. If Evander truly had a bad ticker he wouldn't have been cleared medically.

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Originally Posted by Drago

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

Did you watch the ROy JOnes jr- Bernard Hopkins fight? By the middle Roy was landing 50% of his shots to like 20% connection for Bernard. A few times Bernard thought he had Roy figured out only to come out the next round and have Roy make the adjustments that would totally throw Bernard off again. All this was done without him being able to throw his right cross effectively. He was throwing it with an open hand all night. Roy wasn't as effective as he was in some fights, but he still won almost every round until he took off the last few, and he was still just as green as Bernard was, it took him like 5-6 rounds to even open up. Bernard couldn't deal with his speed or elusiveness. Which is the key point ,Roy wasn't just speed, he was as elusive as anyone, thats what him different in some ways from guys like Ali, Leonard, Michael Nunn, is that Roy was extremely hard to hit anywhere, while the other guys weren't quite as concerned about getting hit.

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REwatch the bhop fight bro. It was far from easy.
I rewatched it and to my suprise, i actually have bhop winning this time!

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:confused::confused::confused: even bhop said he lost that one

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Which is what makes it so weird rofl.,
2 other people on here said they rewatched it aswell and actually had bernard by a point.
The fight was just so boring..but honestly.. it's worth a rewatch.
Fighters who don't get off like they want to in a fight or never get
in a rhythm or comfortable like Bernard clearly was the entire night, often times
wont dispute the decision if they lose...But he actually did pretty good dispite having
not perfected his craft yet.

During that time bernard was a "killer". He had a great body attack and would often times
stalk his opponent. He showed tremendous respect for Roys ability and did none of that in their fight. Obviously, Bernard is an entirely different fighter today.. which is why I never look at the Roy/Bhop fight as a huge win for Roy. If i beat on an infant today and he becomes a world champion in thirty years, does that make him a significant win for me?

Bhop was highly regarded and a great fighter at the time they fought, but he, imo, had no where near the knowledge of the game he has now. He's a much more dangerous adversary now and i actually have the fight alot closer after rewatching than I did before.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Alright did not ask you how they looked i asked who had the best wins and to me that is Oscar and i think he should get some credit for it. Roy never had to step it up as much as Oscar did and Oscar had to do it alot. So dont you think but i can see your point still say Oscars higher.

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Oscar's record is very strong, but it is manufactured to look even better than it actually is, plus he never actually dominated someone who wasn't cannon fodder and lost the true main events in his career.

You can tear down anyone's careerwhen you have the blinkers on. Like Taeth said, you have to look at the chronology of things before start saying that Roy ducked people (not saying you did MR140, just a reference to the thread as a whole.)

Personally I believe Benn had a punchers chance, and like someone mentioned maybe get lucky 1/5 against him, but they were never on a collision course, Benn was well and truly finished after Mclellan, and if the older Benn had fought Roy it would have been a massacre.

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Do you know the chronology of this? The big fight between Roy and Dariusz was before Roy ever moved up to heavyweight, and Dariusz ended up losing to a guy Roy pummelled for 12 rounds in Julio Gonzalez anyways. Dariusz was overrated.

Did you watch the ROy JOnes jr- Bernard Hopkins fight? By the middle Roy was landing 50% of his shots to like 20% connection for Bernard. A few times Bernard thought he had Roy figured out only to come out the next round and have Roy make the adjustments that would totally throw Bernard off again. All this was done without him being able to throw his right cross effectively. He was throwing it with an open hand all night. Roy wasn't as effective as he was in some fights, but he still won almost every round until he took off the last few, and he was still just as green as Bernard was, it took him like 5-6 rounds to even open up. Bernard couldn't deal with his speed or elusiveness. Which is the key point ,Roy wasn't just speed, he was as elusive as anyone, thats what him different in some ways from guys like Ali, Leonard, Michael Nunn, is that Roy was extremely hard to hit anywhere, while the other guys weren't quite as concerned about getting hit.

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REwatch the bhop fight bro. It was far from easy.
I rewatched it and to my suprise, i actually have bhop winning this time!

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Are you out of your mind ? thats possibly one of the easiest fights to score in boxing history, 8 rounds to 4 or 9 rounds to 3 in favor of RJJ. Even Bernard Hopkins said he lost.

Roy was never busy enough and spent too long of his peak fighting cans to be judged.

Is up there with Calzaghe and Hopkins.

Well Killface from what i read he has had a heart problem in his last fight of the trilogy with Riddick Bowie and from what i read and what tv has said and medical doctors that were being interviewed he has a heart problem to the point were it effects his fights i dont know why they lie.

After losing his WBA and IBF heavyweight championship belts to Michael Moorer (JET, May 9), Evander Holyfield learned he had two heart conditions and announced his retirement at a press conference.The conditions are a "stiff heart", which prevents enough oxygen from being pumped to muscles and tissues, and an atrial septal defect, a "tiny hole" in the boxer's heart. Doctors said the conditions are not life-threatening. They were diagnosed while Holyfield was in the hospital for treatment after the Moorer fight."Mr. Holyfield fought this fight in heart failure, and it's an absolute miracle he could fight this fight for 12 rounds in this condition," observed Holyfield's personal physician, Dr. Ronald Stephens.

"His heart was not functioning at its maximum level," cardiologist Dr. Douglas Morris said. "We did not look at this that his life was imperiled."
The cardiologist told Holyfield that the condition was under control now and he could lead a normal life if he resumes a less strenuous lifestyle.
"When Dr. Stephens told me, it was an easy decision," the 31-year-old Holyfield said. "I'm going to miss boxing a lot. I had a lot of love for it and it made a better life for me."
Last year, Holyfield regained his title from Riddick Bowe in a gutsy, 12-round slugfest.


So according to that he has had it for i say 15 years so yea i have no idea why they would let him fight but he does have a hart condtion.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

After losing his WBA and IBF heavyweight championship belts to Michael Moorer (JET, May 9), Evander Holyfield learned he had two heart conditions and announced his retirement at a press conference.The conditions are a "stiff heart", which prevents enough oxygen from being pumped to muscles and tissues, and an atrial septal defect, a "tiny hole" in the boxer's heart. Doctors said the conditions are not life-threatening. They were diagnosed while Holyfield was in the hospital for treatment after the Moorer fight."Mr. Holyfield fought this fight in heart failure, and it's an absolute miracle he could fight this fight for 12 rounds in this condition," observed Holyfield's personal physician, Dr. Ronald Stephens.

"His heart was not functioning at its maximum level," cardiologist Dr. Douglas Morris said. "We did not look at this that his life was imperiled."
The cardiologist told Holyfield that the condition was under control now and he could lead a normal life if he resumes a less strenuous lifestyle.
"When Dr. Stephens told me, it was an easy decision," the 31-year-old Holyfield said. "I'm going to miss boxing a lot. I had a lot of love for it and it made a better life for me."
Last year, Holyfield regained his title from Riddick Bowe in a gutsy, 12-round slugfest.


So according to that he has had it for i say 15 years so yea i have no idea why they would let him fight but he does have a hart condtion.

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also has Hepatitis B

I want to get a copy of this tv show that everyone watched that turned them against Roy's skills... I've watched 99% of Roy's fights, and given on a few nights he didn't explode knocking guys out in the first round, from the majority of his fights and what he was capable of, in MOST nights he was unbeatable..

Obviously the tv show was designed, edited, "flavoured", to show Roy as the legend he was, but to show him as the guy who had many chinks in his armour "some of which were exposed during his career".... Pick any fighter in the world and you could put together a show that paints him as someone who was highly overrated.. But it's just not the case... Fuck it's easy to say Roy was far from Unbeatable, but 99% he faced had no fucking chance of beating him.... And if he came prime in every fight, I doubt he would have ever lost a fight.. It's a big statement -- but "extraordinary talent" + "prime" = Unbeatable... That's all there is too it... And no one of Roy's time, and maybe any other time could have stopped him on his best night..

I agree he wasn't PERFECT by any stretch (and maybe that is what is being pointed out here), but in the ring where the game is to knock the other guy out or get knocked out yourself.. Roy was the fucking king of that game..

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

yeh i was dthinking the same thing watching it.. dont get me wrong great fighter, but far from unbeatable..

I also feel that calzaghe would of given him a real test.. he would of bin all over Roy like a rash..

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Fighters who swarmed Roy Jones Jr in his prime got slaughtered.

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I agree 100%...

Out of curiosity...I would like the detractors to name guys that they feel would have beaten Roy at 168...His true prime...

Not given a good fight but beat him......

Every fighter is beatable no matter who they are....Just have not seen the man able to do it..

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I'll bite :-X.Simply put,I think Nigel Benn had a realistic chance of defeating Jones.Can I say he "would" have beaten him,No.But in fairness I equally can not say Jones "would" have beaten Benn.After what Benn prevailed through in that tragic but stunning McClellan battle,I was hard pressed to make Jones a lock for a win and if their was a fight to be made,that was the ONE.McClellan was a huge favorite,many picked him to steamroll Benn.....for a moment lets put aside all of the excuses,Rabbit punching,Long count,etc.I am always hesitant to trump that fight up,talk fondly of the win.You just can not,It was a horrible ending,but the fight did happen,and Benn emerged the victor.

On paper,It appeared a whitewash for Roy.He was faster,deeper in pedigree,emence balance and instinct,really exploited a mans mistakes in embarrassing fashion.If we are talking strictly 168 as mentioned,he faced some guys in Thorton,Pazienza,Brannon etc. who brought forward pressure but NEVER the unbridled two fisted threat and intensity of Benn in that division.Benn could make it rough in there in a way Jones never had to deal with and would keep jones guessing.And I do think that as hard as Jones was to catch clean...I feel that Benn had the arsenal/power to hurt Jones badly.Call it the proverbial "punchers chance" but I think it was more than that & I honestly think Benn had an honest shot, I don't think Jones would be able to get in Benns head ,Ok commence laughter,Im done.

I see the fight as Benn getting starched out early. Jones would have timed him and pummeled him out.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by ICB

Fighters who swarmed Roy Jones Jr in his prime got slaughtered.

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I agree 100%...

Out of curiosity...I would like the detractors to name guys that they feel would have beaten Roy at 168...His true prime...

Not given a good fight but beat him......

Every fighter is beatable no matter who they are....Just have not seen the man able to do it..

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I'll bite :-X.Simply put,I think Nigel Benn had a realistic chance of defeating Jones.Can I say he "would" have beaten him,No.But in fairness I equally can not say Jones "would" have beaten Benn.After what Benn prevailed through in that tragic but stunning McClellan battle,I was hard pressed to make Jones a lock for a win and if their was a fight to be made,that was the ONE.McClellan was a huge favorite,many picked him to steamroll Benn.....for a moment lets put aside all of the excuses,Rabbit punching,Long count,etc.I am always hesitant to trump that fight up,talk fondly of the win.You just can not,It was a horrible ending,but the fight did happen,and Benn emerged the victor.

On paper,It appeared a whitewash for Roy.He was faster,deeper in pedigree,emence balance and instinct,really exploited a mans mistakes in embarrassing fashion.If we are talking strictly 168 as mentioned,he faced some guys in Thorton,Pazienza,Brannon etc. who brought forward pressure but NEVER the unbridled two fisted threat and intensity of Benn in that division.Benn could make it rough in there in a way Jones never had to deal with and would keep jones guessing.And I do think that as hard as Jones was to catch clean...I feel that Benn had the arsenal/power to hurt Jones badly.Call it the proverbial "punchers chance" but I think it was more than that & I honestly think Benn had an honest shot, I don't think Jones would be able to get in Benns head ,Ok commence laughter,Im done.

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After the Gerald McClellan fight Nigel Benn was a finished fighter, mentally and physically. Im glad he didn't meet RJJ at that time, he would of been beaten in embarrassing fashion.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I agree 100%...

Out of curiosity...I would like the detractors to name guys that they feel would have beaten Roy at 168...His true prime...

Not given a good fight but beat him......

Every fighter is beatable no matter who they are....Just have not seen the man able to do it..

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I'll bite :-X.Simply put,I think Nigel Benn had a realistic chance of defeating Jones.Can I say he "would" have beaten him,No.But in fairness I equally can not say Jones "would" have beaten Benn.After what Benn prevailed through in that tragic but stunning McClellan battle,I was hard pressed to make Jones a lock for a win and if their was a fight to be made,that was the ONE.McClellan was a huge favorite,many picked him to steamroll Benn.....for a moment lets put aside all of the excuses,Rabbit punching,Long count,etc.I am always hesitant to trump that fight up,talk fondly of the win.You just can not,It was a horrible ending,but the fight did happen,and Benn emerged the victor.

On paper,It appeared a whitewash for Roy.He was faster,deeper in pedigree,emence balance and instinct,really exploited a mans mistakes in embarrassing fashion.If we are talking strictly 168 as mentioned,he faced some guys in Thorton,Pazienza,Brannon etc. who brought forward pressure but NEVER the unbridled two fisted threat and intensity of Benn in that division.Benn could make it rough in there in a way Jones never had to deal with and would keep jones guessing.And I do think that as hard as Jones was to catch clean...I feel that Benn had the arsenal/power to hurt Jones badly.Call it the proverbial "punchers chance" but I think it was more than that & I honestly think Benn had an honest shot, I don't think Jones would be able to get in Benns head ,Ok commence laughter,Im done.

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After the Gerald McClellan fight Nigel Benn was a finished fighter, mentally and physically. Im glad he didn't meet RJJ at that time, he would of been beaten in embarrassing fashion.

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Opinions, eh? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

I'll bite :-X.Simply put,I think Nigel Benn had a realistic chance of defeating Jones.Can I say he "would" have beaten him,No.But in fairness I equally can not say Jones "would" have beaten Benn.After what Benn prevailed through in that tragic but stunning McClellan battle,I was hard pressed to make Jones a lock for a win and if their was a fight to be made,that was the ONE.McClellan was a huge favorite,many picked him to steamroll Benn.....for a moment lets put aside all of the excuses,Rabbit punching,Long count,etc.I am always hesitant to trump that fight up,talk fondly of the win.You just can not,It was a horrible ending,but the fight did happen,and Benn emerged the victor.

On paper,It appeared a whitewash for Roy.He was faster,deeper in pedigree,emence balance and instinct,really exploited a mans mistakes in embarrassing fashion.If we are talking strictly 168 as mentioned,he faced some guys in Thorton,Pazienza,Brannon etc. who brought forward pressure but NEVER the unbridled two fisted threat and intensity of Benn in that division.Benn could make it rough in there in a way Jones never had to deal with and would keep jones guessing.And I do think that as hard as Jones was to catch clean...I feel that Benn had the arsenal/power to hurt Jones badly.Call it the proverbial "punchers chance" but I think it was more than that & I honestly think Benn had an honest shot, I don't think Jones would be able to get in Benns head ,Ok commence laughter,Im done.

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After the Gerald McClellan fight Nigel Benn was a finished fighter, mentally and physically. Im glad he didn't meet RJJ at that time, he would of been beaten in embarrassing fashion.

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Opinions, eh? :rolleyes:

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What ?

Even in his prime, people are forgetting that Benn could hit McClellan. Things change when you can't hit the guy, Roy was extremely hard to hit off the ropes, he was nearly impossible to hit in the middle of the ring. If much faster more accurate guys like Bernard Hopkins and James Toney couldn't hit Jones why would Benn be able to? And he doesn't have that great of a chin, and Roy was one of the best punchers we've seen at 168. Of course I think Benn couldn't hurt Jones, but I don't believe he could badly hurt Jones wtih any one punch, because he would never catch Jones cleanly.