-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Hopkins hit Pavlik flush all night and never once had him seriously hurt.
Also, comparing Pavlik to Lacy is utterly ridiculous.
Are you serious? Watch the fight again.
In the 12th, Pavlik could have been stopped.
You're completely wrong. The only time Pavlik was hurt at all was in the opening 30 seconds of the round, he clinched and recovered. Even when he got buzzed, Pavlik still had his legs and his wits about him. There was no point in the 12th where the fight could have legitimately been stopped unless you're saying he shouldn't have been allowed to come out for the 12th round because of the punishment he had taken throughout the fight, something else I would disagree with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVuq...2E7B2C&index=8At what point of round 12 should he have been stopped?
In those first 30 seconds if that had been Roy and at 175 and Pavlik had taken that kind of a beating for the previous 11 rounds ;) Do you think Pavlik would have survived an entire fight with that defensive shell he goes into, he almost only throws when someone backs off of him and gives him room when he is smothered he covers up and goes on the defensive. Do you think he could have beaten Roy Jones Jr fighting him like that? Roy would have torn him up and fought him when he wanted to. What Roy would have done was probably try to circle out of range of Pavliks right hands and then jump in with a quick shot causing Kelly to go into that shell again and then unload on him. He wouldnt have to worry about resting against the ropes because he could do it in the center of the ring :)
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Are you serious? Watch the fight again. In the 12th, Pavlik could have been stopped.
You're completely wrong. The only time Pavlik was hurt at all was in the opening 30 seconds of the round, he clinched and recovered. Even when he got buzzed, Pavlik still had his legs and his wits about him. There was no point in the 12th where the fight could have legitimately been stopped unless you're saying he shouldn't have been allowed to come out for the 12th round because of the punishment he had taken throughout the fight, something else I would disagree with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVuq...2E7B2C&index=8At what point of round 12 should he have been stopped?
In those first 30 seconds if that had been Roy and at 175 and Pavlik had taken that kind of a beating for the previous 11 rounds ;) Do you think Pavlik would have survived an entire fight with that defensive shell he goes into, he almost only throws when someone backs off of him and gives him room when he is smothered he covers up and goes on the defensive. Do you think he could have beaten Roy Jones Jr fighting him like that? Roy would have torn him up and fought him when he wanted to. What Roy would have done was probably try to circle out of range of Pavliks right hands and then jump in with a quick shot causing Kelly to go into that shell again and then unload on him. He wouldnt have to worry about resting against the ropes because he could do it in the center of the ring :)
Jones doesn't have the defense of Hopkins and at this age I don't think he has the legs to keep away from Pavlik all fight long. The best fighter he has beaten since his so called comeback is Anthony Handshaw. Regardless of what Taeth might say, Calzaghe took him to school in a major way and could have stopped him if he pressed. There is no way of knowing how Jones would respond to a fighter like Pavlik because we've yet to see him fight one.
Could Jones stop Pavlik? Sure, anyone can stopped in boxing and the outcome isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion. However, I don't think he would. Jones is not a huge puncher anymore, he hit Lacy at will all night long and while he hurt him (badly on occasion), he never even dropped him; I don't think he would stop Pavlik unless it was in the same fashion as the Lacy fight, the corner throwing in the towel (about 4 rounds too late in the Lacy fight, but I digress yet again). I think Jones would back into the ropes, like he always does regardless of whether he has to or not, and Pavlik would make him pay.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Pavlik too long,straight and strong for Roy at 40.Come on?His one deminsion would suit him well and Jones could not hang on the ropes.I dont think Roy would be able to walk to Pavlik as Hopkins did.
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Pavlik too long,straight and strong for Roy at 40.Come on?His one deminsion would suit him well and Jones could not hang on the ropes.I dont think Roy would be able to walk to Pavlik as Hopkins did.
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to
todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.
Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to
todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.
Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.
Pavlik has never impressed me either.Not happeneing this one but wtf.Shite,I had him only 1 point up on Taylor in 2nd fight.I dont buy Jones being the harder hitter....two different styles and delivery totally.For me it comes down to Jones being reachable and now predictable....vs any higher calibur guy.His mind may be there but Jones top form was reflex,instinct.This is not "RJ" these days man.He backs into bad spots now, setting mutual traps and I think even a Pavlik finds him with straight volume shots.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to
todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.
Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.
But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?
People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?
Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?
You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175 :-X
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.
He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.
No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.
Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.
But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?
People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?
Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?
You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175 :-X
Predictions for Pavlik - Williams were quite divided as - from what I've read - are opinions on Jones - Pavlik. It's not outlandish to think that a young, high-volume puncher with good power in both hands could defeat a 40 year old with declining skills, a questionable chin, and a far from impressive level of competition in his most recent fights (aside from the Calzaghe loss in which he was completely outclassed).
No one is saying Pavlik is some kind of perennial P4P fixture, but he's not garbage either. Edison Miranda and Jermaine Taylor are better than anyone Roy Jones has beaten in the past 4 years. Well, Miranda might be on par with or slightly worse than Hanshaw, but you get my point I think.
Pavlik beating Jones is not a forgone conclusion but it is certainly possible and the most likely outcome in my, and many others, opinions and it is a valid opinion. None of us have any idea how a fight between the two would play out, it's all speculation. No opinions should be discounted and sneered at.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
The Days of Roy Jones Competing with boxers in the upper echelon of the sport are OVER.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.
Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.
But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?
People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?
Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?
You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175 :-X
Predictions for Pavlik - Williams were quite divided as - from what I've read - are opinions on Jones - Pavlik. It's not outlandish to think that a young, high-volume puncher with good power in both hands could defeat a 40 year old with declining skills, a questionable chin, and a far from impressive level of competition in his most recent fights (aside from the Calzaghe loss in which he was completely outclassed).
No one is saying Pavlik is some kind of perennial P4P fixture, but he's not garbage either. Edison Miranda and Jermaine Taylor are better than anyone Roy Jones has beaten in the past 4 years. Well, Miranda might be on par with or slightly worse than Hanshaw, but you get my point I think.
Pavlik beating Jones is not a forgone conclusion but it is certainly possible and the most likely outcome in my, and many others, opinions and it is a valid opinion. None of us have any idea how a fight between the two would play out, it's all speculation. No opinions should be discounted and sneered at.
Why is it the most likely outcome that Pavlik would knockout Roy at 175 when his power wasnt there at 168? Roy has ONLY been hurt at Light Heavyweight by other light heavyweights that were also big punchers. Pavlik is a big puncher but at middleweight and he doesn't carry that power up and yet it has been shown he can be hurt by other middleweights and a super middleweight Jones. I'd say Roy has a far bigger chance of hurting and stopping Pavlik then Pavlik does at stopping him.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
I think Pavlik would comfortably beat the Roy Jones of today!!
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
A prime Jones would make Pavlik look like Kid Thunder.
A 40 year old Jones still has the ability to embarrass him but i'm not so sure he has the legs to effectively move away from Pavlik's shots for a full 12 rounds. If he could start well and make Pavlik become hesitant then i think Pavlik would stand off enough for Roy to go to town on his head, but if that doesn't happen and Jones spends too much time on the ropes, sooner or later he's going to get caught.
I'd hesitantly go against the grain here and pick a Roy Jones UD, probably more to do with (imo) Pavlik not being that good.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?
People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?
Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?
You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175 :-X
Predictions for Pavlik - Williams were quite divided as - from what I've read - are opinions on Jones - Pavlik. It's not outlandish to think that a young, high-volume puncher with good power in both hands could defeat a 40 year old with declining skills, a questionable chin, and a far from impressive level of competition in his most recent fights (aside from the Calzaghe loss in which he was completely outclassed).
No one is saying Pavlik is some kind of perennial P4P fixture, but he's not garbage either. Edison Miranda and Jermaine Taylor are better than anyone Roy Jones has beaten in the past 4 years. Well, Miranda might be on par with or slightly worse than Hanshaw, but you get my point I think.
Pavlik beating Jones is not a forgone conclusion but it is certainly possible and the most likely outcome in my, and many others, opinions and it is a valid opinion. None of us have any idea how a fight between the two would play out, it's all speculation. No opinions should be discounted and sneered at.
Why is it the most likely outcome that Pavlik would knockout Roy at 175 when his power wasnt there at 168? Roy has ONLY been hurt at Light Heavyweight by other light heavyweights that were also big punchers. Pavlik is a big puncher but at middleweight and he doesn't carry that power up and yet it has been shown he can be hurt by other middleweights and a super middleweight Jones. I'd say Roy has a far bigger chance of hurting and stopping Pavlik then Pavlik does at stopping him.
I think that is the case for the same reasons I've mentioned several times in this thread already. We're just going around in circles here.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoomBoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoomBoom
At light heavy, Pavliks punches wouldnt effect RJJ. Roy would baffle him and Pavlik would get picked apart as the frusteration set in.I think Roy has a decent chin and he can take Pavliks best punches and shrug them off. Dont know that Pavlik, who ha little head movenent, could handle Roys snapping punches.
Really Boom?I mean his whole thing at prime was not getting hit clean...speed,instinct.Weight aside,To go in with Pavlik on who takes a better shot is to play with a forrest fire.Dont get me wrong....Roy of past could get under Pavlik,move off and have him running into shots but I just don't see
this Jones being able to get off clean and move out like he would have too over and over.
What it comes down to is the type of punch that hurts Jones. Jones may not be what he used to be, but his eyes are still very good. A predictable fighter has never beat him. Johnson, Tarver, Calzaghe, all got to him with punches he didnt see coming. All these guys used odd angles, Pavlik throw basic punches. He would see Pavliks punches coming and take them on the gloves and forearms. Roys defence isnt great but it works well for guys wo through textbook punches. The punches Roy gets hit with come around his gloves. Also foot placement is key. Pavlik is not fast on his feet and Roy would not let him set his feet to get off his power punches. He would stay a step ahead every time because he is a superior technitian and knows his range as good as anyone and can command the center of the ring even at 40. He is still strong enough, and stronger than Pavlik.
If Jones can command the rig so well. Why does he cover up like a b**** on the ropes in every fight in the past 4 years?
Jones is on borrowed time. I really don't want to see him get hurt. PLease retire as a B+ class fighter you are right now... and that is being generous.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168? :confused:
Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?
This is ridiculous. I guess Trinidad was obviously not a puncher at 160 and Tarver clearly had no pop at 175 either.
Anthony Hanshaw gave Roy Jones a very competitive fight for 10 rounds, in fact it was pretty even up that point, although the judges were smoking something. Jones had to pull something out the bag to beat Hanshaw in the late rounds, he was having some trouble with him yet Dirrell blew him away in 5, what does that tell you?
Yes he dominated Lacy, but only after Calzaghe, Tyspko, (arguably Manfredo), Mendoza, Taylor and Grifin had all made him look fucking awful and completely shot beyond recognition.
Jones coulnd't beat Tarver 3 years ago, he has even less left now.
If he was to beat Pavlik, he'd have to do it inside the first 3 rounds, not impossible if Kelly got careless but unlikely. As soon as Pavlik had settled though Jones would just fade, fade, fade and be lucky to see the finish.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168? :confused:
Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?
This is ridiculous. I guess Trinidad was obviously not a puncher at 160 and Tarver clearly had no pop at 175 either.
Anthony Hanshaw gave Roy Jones a very competitive fight for 10 rounds, in fact it was pretty even up that point, although the judges were smoking something. Jones had to pull something out the bag to beat Hanshaw in the late rounds, he was having some trouble with him yet Dirrell blew him away in 5, what does that tell you?
Yes he dominated Lacy, but only after Calzaghe, Tyspko, (arguably Manfredo), Mendoza, Taylor and Grifin had all made him look fucking awful and completely shot beyond recognition.
Jones coulnd't beat Tarver 3 years ago, he has even less left now.
If he was to beat Pavlik, he'd have to do it inside the first 3 rounds, not impossible if Kelly got careless but unlikely. As soon as Pavlik had settled though Jones would just fade, fade, fade and be lucky to see the finish.
about the same amount as it tells about how pacman would do against floyd...based off the ricky perfomances...(floyd beat him first)
about the same amount as it tells about how much it told before shane fought margarito, (remembering) everyone that picked shane to be stopped based of losing to cotto who was stopped by MArgo...
Do I really need to go on?
And Dirrell beat Hanshaw before or after Roy took away his his undefeated record?
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168? :confused:
Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?
Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.
He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.
Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.
You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168? :confused:
Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?
Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.
He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.
Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.
You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?
So you think the extra 8 lbs suddenly meant Taylor wasn't getting hurt any more? Do you not think the fact that Taylor went into his shell over the last 6 rounds and was clearly just looking to survive had something to do with it?
And I know everybody seems to think Jermain Taylor is now just some glass jawed club fighter but he's actually a world class fighter and knocking him out isn't easy.
Cleary B Hop has no power at all as he wasn't even able to put Jermain on the canvas in two attempts, and that at 160, he must be pillow fighting at 175, maybe that's why he beat Pavlik so easy, his gentle, soothing caresses to his face just made him feel all relaxed and dreamy?
Actually if you think about what you are saying it's so ludicrous to be bordering on retarded, no offense of course.
I mean imagine you have a fight with a guy and he hits you and knocks you out, then you both put on 8 lbs you think now he won't hurt you as much? Has you chin recieved some of that extra weight? :confused:
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168? :confused:
Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?
Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.
He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.
Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.
You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?
So you think the extra 8 lbs suddenly meant Taylor wasn't getting hurt any more? Do you not think the fact that Taylor went into his shell over the last 6 rounds and was clearly just looking to survive had something to do with it?
And I know everybody seems to think Jermain Taylor is now just some glass jawed club fighter but he's actually a world class fighter and knocking him out isn't easy.
Cleary B Hop has no power at all as he wasn't even able to put Jermain on the canvas in two attempts, and that at 160, he must be pillow fighting at 175, maybe that's why he beat Pavlik so easy, his gentle, soothing caresses to his face just made him feel all relaxed and dreamy?
Actually if you think about what you are saying it's so ludicrous to be bordering on retarded, no offense of course.
I mean imagine you have a fight with a guy and he hits you and knocks you out, then you both put on 8 lbs you think now he won't hurt you as much? Has you chin recieved some of that extra weight? :confused:
It's not as bordering on retarded as comparing Pavlik to Tarver, no offense of course ;)
With as many people bitching about an extra 8 pounds and the legitimacy of not in catchweight fights nowadays are we supposed to now downplay how much of a difference weight makes in the case of Pavlik and Jones? ;D
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.
He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.
Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.
You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?
So you think the extra 8 lbs suddenly meant Taylor wasn't getting hurt any more? Do you not think the fact that Taylor went into his shell over the last 6 rounds and was clearly just looking to survive had something to do with it?
And I know everybody seems to think Jermain Taylor is now just some glass jawed club fighter but he's actually a world class fighter and knocking him out isn't easy.
Cleary B Hop has no power at all as he wasn't even able to put Jermain on the canvas in two attempts, and that at 160, he must be pillow fighting at 175, maybe that's why he beat Pavlik so easy, his gentle, soothing caresses to his face just made him feel all relaxed and dreamy?
Actually if you think about what you are saying it's so ludicrous to be bordering on retarded, no offense of course.
I mean imagine you have a fight with a guy and he hits you and knocks you out, then you both put on 8 lbs you think now he won't hurt you as much? Has you chin recieved some of that extra weight? :confused:
It's not as bordering on retarded as comparing Pavlik to Tarver, no offense of course ;)
With as many people bitching about an extra 8 pounds and the legitimacy of not in catchweight fights nowadays are we supposed to now downplay how much of a difference weight makes in the case of Pavlik and Jones? ;D
Jones isn't any bigger than Pavlik though, Pavlik is a huge middleweight. Size shouldn't be a factor in that one.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Styles make fights and I think Pavlik would be tailor made for Jones. Straight forward, no real movement, relying on power.....kind of like the Hopkins fight!
Jones still has the ring smarts to beat Pavlik.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DAWGSWIN
Styles make fights and I think Pavlik would be tailor made for Jones. Straight forward, no real movement, relying on power.....kind of like the Hopkins fight!
Jones still has the ring smarts to beat Pavlik.
Disagree, Roy has not the legs to keep going against a top fighter nowadays.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
The Jones of today for me. Pavlikhas good power but I just can't help thinking about what Jermain Taylor was doing to him in the early going of the first fight. And Jones has more of everything than Taylor and I mean that, for me Taylor does not have anything that he does better than Jones.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
i doubt Kelly will be the same after his one sided beating to Hopkins he didn't look the same when he fought Rubio.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
I'd pick Pavlik to win at this stage.
Jones at this stage lays on the ropes for long periods of time and that would favor Pavlik because he would be there for Pavlik to hit at, unlike Hopkins was who used lots of lateral movement to throw Pavlik off.
Pavlik wouldn't try to smother Jones like Lacy did either, he would use his jab to set the range and follow with right hands and body shots at range.
Jones would win a few rounds but he would get outworked and eventually stopped if Pavlik could land enough bombs.
-
Re: the jones of today vs pavlik
I'd be intrigued at this fight, could go either way dominantly. Pavlik seems to have slipped since the first Taylor fight, I agree with a lot being said here that Jones gets stopped against a top tier opponent that has power, but I wouldn't class Pavlik as top tier at the moment.
