the jones of today vs pavlik

[Majesty]

Pavlik's power was gone at 168. At 174 he'd really be done, roy would stop him late. Pavlik made Bhop's hands look like meldrick taylor.. Roy would look like E.Honda from street fighter.

He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.

He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.

No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.

Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.

But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?


People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?

Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?

You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175

[CFH]

He shines but only in glimpse's man.I really think their is some reinvention and star struckness going on as it relates to todays Jones jr.We may be talking Pavlik here...and lets be honest that fight is not happening.But it was far more than just hand speed that saw Hopkins walk to and whip Pavlik.Intangibles that I believe Roy no longer has readily available.I think Jones is over his head right now with top ranked high calibur guys in general.If he gets by Green,I hope he goes out on top.

He is shining with spurts of past speed against stationary non offensive minded catchers in Sheika and Lacy.The latter it can be argued had lost 5 of his last 6 fights.His last big fight vs a guy with volume and pressure saw him shut down & beat up with frankly his heart keeping him upright.You could see the hesitation and him second guessing on rigid legs.When Jones is reduced to pounding his chin and chest boasting of being able to take a good shot......that says it all.And last I checked Calzaghe is not exactly a renowned puncher.

No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.

Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.

But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?


People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?

Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?

You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175

Predictions for Pavlik - Williams were quite divided as - from what I've read - are opinions on Jones - Pavlik. It's not outlandish to think that a young, high-volume puncher with good power in both hands could defeat a 40 year old with declining skills, a questionable chin, and a far from impressive level of competition in his most recent fights (aside from the Calzaghe loss in which he was completely outclassed).

No one is saying Pavlik is some kind of perennial P4P fixture, but he's not garbage either. Edison Miranda and Jermaine Taylor are better than anyone Roy Jones has beaten in the past 4 years. Well, Miranda might be on par with or slightly worse than Hanshaw, but you get my point I think.

Pavlik beating Jones is not a forgone conclusion but it is certainly possible and the most likely outcome in my, and many others, opinions and it is a valid opinion. None of us have any idea how a fight between the two would play out, it's all speculation. No opinions should be discounted and sneered at.

[Truth]

The Days of Roy Jones Competing with boxers in the upper echelon of the sport are OVER.

[Majesty]

No its not being star struck...not from me at least...but pavlik hasn't really done anything to impress me to the point of where i can outright say he'd beat even a 40 yr old jones who is still very aware of his ability limitations. And roy was one of the best ring generals in history his mind is still there. He still is laps ahead of anybody pavliks faced in terms of speed...and Roy would be the biggest man pavlik will have faced in regards to fighting at the higher weights longer. That makes roy the biggest and harder puncher.

Pavlik right now to me beat a very good but overrated jermain taylor is only a step above lacy and thats because he does have a jab...i will go out on a limb and say jermain taylor won't win one fight in the SMW tournament.

But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?


People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?

Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?

You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175

Predictions for Pavlik - Williams were quite divided as - from what I've read - are opinions on Jones - Pavlik. It's not outlandish to think that a young, high-volume puncher with good power in both hands could defeat a 40 year old with declining skills, a questionable chin, and a far from impressive level of competition in his most recent fights (aside from the Calzaghe loss in which he was completely outclassed).

No one is saying Pavlik is some kind of perennial P4P fixture, but he's not garbage either. Edison Miranda and Jermaine Taylor are better than anyone Roy Jones has beaten in the past 4 years. Well, Miranda might be on par with or slightly worse than Hanshaw, but you get my point I think.

Pavlik beating Jones is not a forgone conclusion but it is certainly possible and the most likely outcome in my, and many others, opinions and it is a valid opinion. None of us have any idea how a fight between the two would play out, it's all speculation. No opinions should be discounted and sneered at.

Why is it the most likely outcome that Pavlik would knockout Roy at 175 when his power wasnt there at 168? Roy has ONLY been hurt at Light Heavyweight by other light heavyweights that were also big punchers. Pavlik is a big puncher but at middleweight and he doesn't carry that power up and yet it has been shown he can be hurt by other middleweights and a super middleweight Jones. I'd say Roy has a far bigger chance of hurting and stopping Pavlik then Pavlik does at stopping him.

[BIG H]

I think Pavlik would comfortably beat the Roy Jones of today!!

[ono]

A prime Jones would make Pavlik look like Kid Thunder.

A 40 year old Jones still has the ability to embarrass him but i'm not so sure he has the legs to effectively move away from Pavlik's shots for a full 12 rounds. If he could start well and make Pavlik become hesitant then i think Pavlik would stand off enough for Roy to go to town on his head, but if that doesn't happen and Jones spends too much time on the ropes, sooner or later he's going to get caught.

I'd hesitantly go against the grain here and pick a Roy Jones UD, probably more to do with (imo) Pavlik not being that good.

[CFH]

But don't you know? Pavlik stopped Edison freaking Miranda he has bigger power then Roy at 175 and then he beat Jermain Taylor who was last seen struggling with Cory Spinks. But he DID stop him, once out of two and that has to count for something and Jermain Taylor beat Hopkins so obviously Pavlik would do the same to Hopkins if they met right?


People need to get off the Pavlik kool-aid people somehow think he is gonna stop Roy Jones, Pavlik's power is lacking at 168 at 175 it would be non existant and whens the last time you've seen Roy in any kind of trouble lately?

Roy took everything Calzaghe was throwing and still kept his composure and his wits and was never in trouble, you guys think Roy would let himself get caught with a Pavlik right hand? Both times he was caught were in times he had his hands down. Since then Roy has acknowledged where his limitations are for his age and keeps his hands up a heck of a lot more and has a better fundamental kind of defense of keeping his hands up more so then always relying on his reflexes. Roy Jones right now is better then the version of Roy Jones that lost to Tarver and Johnson. And doesn't get caught with the stupid stuff he got caught with in thosse two fights. Pavlik has never changed, he has no plan B he isn't gonna adapt to what Roy is doing. He is gonna put the earmuffs on and pray he lands the straight right hand while hoping it knocks out Roy. But Roy would tear up Pavlik on the inside in the center of the ring just by smothering him, once Roy has closed distance and is getting off combinations what the heck is Pavlik gonna do to stop him? Pavlik struggled with Hopkins' speed at 168 how is he gonna deal with a Roy Jones at 175 even faster then Hopkins?

You guys think Paul Williams is gonna massacre Pavlik when he moves between 147 and 160 but you think Pavlik is gonna annihalate Roy at 175

Predictions for Pavlik - Williams were quite divided as - from what I've read - are opinions on Jones - Pavlik. It's not outlandish to think that a young, high-volume puncher with good power in both hands could defeat a 40 year old with declining skills, a questionable chin, and a far from impressive level of competition in his most recent fights (aside from the Calzaghe loss in which he was completely outclassed).

No one is saying Pavlik is some kind of perennial P4P fixture, but he's not garbage either. Edison Miranda and Jermaine Taylor are better than anyone Roy Jones has beaten in the past 4 years. Well, Miranda might be on par with or slightly worse than Hanshaw, but you get my point I think.

Pavlik beating Jones is not a forgone conclusion but it is certainly possible and the most likely outcome in my, and many others, opinions and it is a valid opinion. None of us have any idea how a fight between the two would play out, it's all speculation. No opinions should be discounted and sneered at.

Why is it the most likely outcome that Pavlik would knockout Roy at 175 when his power wasnt there at 168? Roy has ONLY been hurt at Light Heavyweight by other light heavyweights that were also big punchers. Pavlik is a big puncher but at middleweight and he doesn't carry that power up and yet it has been shown he can be hurt by other middleweights and a super middleweight Jones. I'd say Roy has a far bigger chance of hurting and stopping Pavlik then Pavlik does at stopping him.

I think that is the case for the same reasons I've mentioned several times in this thread already. We're just going around in circles here.

[JonnyFolds]

At light heavy, Pavliks punches wouldnt effect RJJ. Roy would baffle him and Pavlik would get picked apart as the frusteration set in.I think Roy has a decent chin and he can take Pavliks best punches and shrug them off. Dont know that Pavlik, who ha little head movenent, could handle Roys snapping punches.

Really Boom?I mean his whole thing at prime was not getting hit clean...speed,instinct.Weight aside,To go in with Pavlik on who takes a better shot is to play with a forrest fire.Dont get me wrong....Roy of past could get under Pavlik,move off and have him running into shots but I just don't see this Jones being able to get off clean and move out like he would have too over and over.

What it comes down to is the type of punch that hurts Jones. Jones may not be what he used to be, but his eyes are still very good. A predictable fighter has never beat him. Johnson, Tarver, Calzaghe, all got to him with punches he didnt see coming. All these guys used odd angles, Pavlik throw basic punches. He would see Pavliks punches coming and take them on the gloves and forearms. Roys defence isnt great but it works well for guys wo through textbook punches. The punches Roy gets hit with come around his gloves. Also foot placement is key. Pavlik is not fast on his feet and Roy would not let him set his feet to get off his power punches. He would stay a step ahead every time because he is a superior technitian and knows his range as good as anyone and can command the center of the ring even at 40. He is still strong enough, and stronger than Pavlik.

If Jones can command the rig so well. Why does he cover up like a b**** on the ropes in every fight in the past 4 years?

Jones is on borrowed time. I really don't want to see him get hurt. PLease retire as a B+ class fighter you are right now... and that is being generous.

[Kev]

Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168?

Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?

This is ridiculous. I guess Trinidad was obviously not a puncher at 160 and Tarver clearly had no pop at 175 either.

Anthony Hanshaw gave Roy Jones a very competitive fight for 10 rounds, in fact it was pretty even up that point, although the judges were smoking something. Jones had to pull something out the bag to beat Hanshaw in the late rounds, he was having some trouble with him yet Dirrell blew him away in 5, what does that tell you?

Yes he dominated Lacy, but only after Calzaghe, Tyspko, (arguably Manfredo), Mendoza, Taylor and Grifin had all made him look fucking awful and completely shot beyond recognition.

Jones coulnd't beat Tarver 3 years ago, he has even less left now.

If he was to beat Pavlik, he'd have to do it inside the first 3 rounds, not impossible if Kelly got careless but unlikely. As soon as Pavlik had settled though Jones would just fade, fade, fade and be lucky to see the finish.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168?

Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?

This is ridiculous. I guess Trinidad was obviously not a puncher at 160 and Tarver clearly had no pop at 175 either.

Anthony Hanshaw gave Roy Jones a very competitive fight for 10 rounds, in fact it was pretty even up that point, although the judges were smoking something. Jones had to pull something out the bag to beat Hanshaw in the late rounds, he was having some trouble with him yet Dirrell blew him away in 5, what does that tell you?

Yes he dominated Lacy, but only after Calzaghe, Tyspko, (arguably Manfredo), Mendoza, Taylor and Grifin had all made him look fucking awful and completely shot beyond recognition.

Jones coulnd't beat Tarver 3 years ago, he has even less left now.

If he was to beat Pavlik, he'd have to do it inside the first 3 rounds, not impossible if Kelly got careless but unlikely. As soon as Pavlik had settled though Jones would just fade, fade, fade and be lucky to see the finish.

about the same amount as it tells about how pacman would do against floyd...based off the ricky perfomances...(floyd beat him first)

about the same amount as it tells about how much it told before shane fought margarito, (remembering) everyone that picked shane to be stopped based of losing to cotto who was stopped by MArgo...

Do I really need to go on?


And Dirrell beat Hanshaw before or after Roy took away his his undefeated record?

[Majesty]

Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168?

Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?

Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.

He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.

Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.

You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?

[Kev]

Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168?

Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?

Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.

He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.

Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.

You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?

So you think the extra 8 lbs suddenly meant Taylor wasn't getting hurt any more? Do you not think the fact that Taylor went into his shell over the last 6 rounds and was clearly just looking to survive had something to do with it?

And I know everybody seems to think Jermain Taylor is now just some glass jawed club fighter but he's actually a world class fighter and knocking him out isn't easy.

Cleary B Hop has no power at all as he wasn't even able to put Jermain on the canvas in two attempts, and that at 160, he must be pillow fighting at 175, maybe that's why he beat Pavlik so easy, his gentle, soothing caresses to his face just made him feel all relaxed and dreamy?

Actually if you think about what you are saying it's so ludicrous to be bordering on retarded, no offense of course.

I mean imagine you have a fight with a guy and he hits you and knocks you out, then you both put on 8 lbs you think now he won't hurt you as much? Has you chin recieved some of that extra weight?

[Majesty]

Why is everybody saying Pavlik's power is missing at 168?

Are you telling me that unless a fighter can KO Bernard Hopkins and Jermain Taylor twice they are a non puncher?

Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.

He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.

Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.

You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?

So you think the extra 8 lbs suddenly meant Taylor wasn't getting hurt any more? Do you not think the fact that Taylor went into his shell over the last 6 rounds and was clearly just looking to survive had something to do with it?

And I know everybody seems to think Jermain Taylor is now just some glass jawed club fighter but he's actually a world class fighter and knocking him out isn't easy.

Cleary B Hop has no power at all as he wasn't even able to put Jermain on the canvas in two attempts, and that at 160, he must be pillow fighting at 175, maybe that's why he beat Pavlik so easy, his gentle, soothing caresses to his face just made him feel all relaxed and dreamy?

Actually if you think about what you are saying it's so ludicrous to be bordering on retarded, no offense of course.

I mean imagine you have a fight with a guy and he hits you and knocks you out, then you both put on 8 lbs you think now he won't hurt you as much? Has you chin recieved some of that extra weight?

It's not as bordering on retarded as comparing Pavlik to Tarver, no offense of course

With as many people bitching about an extra 8 pounds and the legitimacy of not in catchweight fights nowadays are we supposed to now downplay how much of a difference weight makes in the case of Pavlik and Jones?

[Kev]

Froch stopped Taylor at 168 Pavlik has no stoppages at 168 against anyone as far as I know.

He stopped Taylor at 160 but couldn't at 168. Froch stopped Taylor at 168 EVEN LACY was able to knock him down at 168 but Pavlik couldn't. I think its safe to say that his power is diminished at 168 and at 175 would be almost non existant.

Why are people saying that Roy has to move for 12 rounds to avoid Pavliks right hand. Hasn't the Hopkins fight showed you that you don't fight on the outside to beat him? What Hopkins did was he smothered Pavlik and got off combinations because Pavlik goes into a defensive shell when you open up and won't throw until you're at a distance otherwise he'll stand there and take punches. Roy would do that all night and probably could get a good rest just laying on the inside with Pavlik since Kelly will only throw when you are far enough away even Zertuche was giving Pavlik problems on the inside, isn't it obvious Pavlik can't fight on the inside and at the same time doesn't know how to keep people away because he is a stalking type of fighter, so if you stay on the outside with him he'll pick you apart but he doesn't know how to stop you coming in he just puts his hands up into a defensive shell. That kind of style is made for Roy to look great against. And at 175 I doubt Pavlik would be able to take everything Roy dished out.

You can't compare Tarver to Pavlik. Tarver is known to have big power at 175 not only that but he is a defensive counter puncher by nature that is good at setting traps and being defensive. Pavlik isn't and he doesn't. Also Pavlik isn't a southpaw. You can't compare both fighters. Because if you say that Roy couldn't beat Tarver I could say look how Hopkins massacred him. And at 175 whats to stop Roy from using the same gameplan? Especially since he'll be the bigger guy and stronger guy against Pavlik as well whats to stop him from imposing his will and going off on him? You just hold on to Pavlik landing that one big right hand but how is he gonna do that if Roy gives him no space?

So you think the extra 8 lbs suddenly meant Taylor wasn't getting hurt any more? Do you not think the fact that Taylor went into his shell over the last 6 rounds and was clearly just looking to survive had something to do with it?

And I know everybody seems to think Jermain Taylor is now just some glass jawed club fighter but he's actually a world class fighter and knocking him out isn't easy.

Cleary B Hop has no power at all as he wasn't even able to put Jermain on the canvas in two attempts, and that at 160, he must be pillow fighting at 175, maybe that's why he beat Pavlik so easy, his gentle, soothing caresses to his face just made him feel all relaxed and dreamy?

Actually if you think about what you are saying it's so ludicrous to be bordering on retarded, no offense of course.

I mean imagine you have a fight with a guy and he hits you and knocks you out, then you both put on 8 lbs you think now he won't hurt you as much? Has you chin recieved some of that extra weight?

It's not as bordering on retarded as comparing Pavlik to Tarver, no offense of course

With as many people bitching about an extra 8 pounds and the legitimacy of not in catchweight fights nowadays are we supposed to now downplay how much of a difference weight makes in the case of Pavlik and Jones?

Jones isn't any bigger than Pavlik though, Pavlik is a huge middleweight. Size shouldn't be a factor in that one.

[DAWGSWIN]

Styles make fights and I think Pavlik would be tailor made for Jones. Straight forward, no real movement, relying on power.....kind of like the Hopkins fight!

Jones still has the ring smarts to beat Pavlik.