This is why they match fighters up and have them actually fight.Then Mayweather will reclaim the pointless p4p #1 thingy.
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This is why they match fighters up and have them actually fight.Then Mayweather will reclaim the pointless p4p #1 thingy.
Why, because God forbid someone disagree with the all knowing JT? ;) :-*Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
You forgot to mention his elbow, and forearm work. :headscratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
You're right he has impressive footwork. ;D
http://i37.tinypic.com/8wczyf.gif
:flowers:
Whatever to all of you
I'm with you JT, even though i think he had a serious size advantage, you can't argue with the dominant skills he displayed. Floyd gets his P4P no.1 spot back in my book. I'd pick him over Pac at any weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI'm with you JT, even though i think he had a serious size advantage, you can't argue with the dominant skills he displayed. Floyd gets his P4P no.1 spot back in my book. I'd pick him over Pac at any weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
#1 p4p. Easy.
And if he isn't, then the p4p thing should be done away with because it no longer holds any credit. Its about who would win if they all fought at a single weight.
How can people say "Yeah, Mayweather would beat Pacquiao/Cotto/Mosley...but he isn't p4p" when that is exactly why he SHOULD be p4p.
Mayweather is just operating at a higher skill level than everyone else in boxing right now.
Ahhh JT, you know that not everyone is going to agree with you, that's what this place is all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
We all have different things that we look for in a fighter, and therefore, our standards of how to place a fighter is viewed very differently. You see him as number one, some of us don't. Simple as that. ;D
As for me, you know I'm just busting your balls. :mwink:
I dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeAhhh JT, you know that not everyone is going to agree with you, that's what this place is all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
We all have different things that we look for in a fighter, and therefore, our standards of how to place a fighter is viewed very differently. You see him as number one, some of us don't. Simple as that. ;D
As for me, you know I'm just busting your balls. :mwink:
It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys:rolleyes:
Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight:rolleyes:
Ok Jt been bitching about the things Shane has done,But from what i saw it was Mayweather that called him over and Mosley asked for his shot is all. Then Bernard comes in and starts shit not Mosley so lay off. I seen the video and thats what i got out of it maybe you saw somthing else. Big deal he wants to get a fight Mosley has just as much chance as anyone. Also didn't Dela Hoya drop those charges your talking about just to ask. It was a good come back fight i while give him that though. But i like to see Mayweather fight a WW if there going to be calling him number one Cotto, Clotty, Mosley, Willaims shit i dont care even Margarito would do.
JT just to ask what was it that you think Mosley said that was out of line. Maybe i got it wrong but i really cant find anything vid at all. Mayweather has done worse things then that and never heard a fan of his say he was out of line. Tell you the truth if he learned how to talk to the public better, he would get the praise of a Leonard or a Dela Hoya.
Marquez was never the same after Pac put him to sleep walking in their second fight. Fraud beat up a smaller, older, and slower shadow of Marquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockPac scavenged Floyds scraps, the facts are the facts manQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHWhat does that have to do with anything? Pac did not become the consensus P4P #1 based on that fight. Both fights were impressive victories, but Mayweather, in some respects, did what was expected; Pacquiao was expected to lose to ODH. Mayweather fought a great fight tonight, I was very impressed and I have dedicated a large amount of my posts tonight to defending and lauding him. However, what he did tonight in no way diminishes or surpasses Pacquaio's recent accomplishments in my opinion. I think PBF is the better fight but that Pac is more deserving of being P4P #1 at the moment (which just goes to show you how utterly useless and subjective P4P lists are).Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Floyd fought and beat a fresher younger DLH at 154 giving up every advantage including glove type, ring size etc...
Manny beat a corpse of DLH
Floyd punished and KO'D a fresh hungry undefeated Hatton.
Pac KO'D beat a dented version who clearly wasnt the same physically or mentally.
Floyd just destroyed a guy Pac went life and death with 2x... Before anyone jumps on the weight train come fight night Pac weighed about 147 for their contest last time out..
Pac fought Hatton at his most effective and natural weight and finished him in two rounds, Hatton was getting the best of Fraud at times.
Pac came from 130 to totally annihilate the much bigger Oscar who was favored to destroyed Pacquiao.
No credit given to Fraud in beating a 130 pounder who fought a middleweight.
Would you give Tyson credit if he KO'd Hopkins at heavyweight?
Shit, even an average WW would beat Marquez if his opponent is allowed to train at the maximum ww limit.
Apparently Shane was running his mouth or Floyd wouldnt have been pointing at him telling him dont disrespect me. Floyd answered the question. Ellerbe and haymon are the ones to go through. BHop and Shane keep jawingQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeAhhh JT, you know that not everyone is going to agree with you, that's what this place is all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
We all have different things that we look for in a fighter, and therefore, our standards of how to place a fighter is viewed very differently. You see him as number one, some of us don't. Simple as that. ;D
As for me, you know I'm just busting your balls. :mwink:
It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys:rolleyes:
Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight:rolleyes:
Don't listen when people say Floyd should fight Shane, 4 years ago people were saying Shane Mosley was shot and should retire and wasn't the same fighter. And if Floyd had beat him everyone would have said Shane was past it. But he beats Margarito and all of a sudden Mayweather has to fight him? Yeah but when Mosley was getting beat by Wright everyone was writing him off but he stops Vargas and Margarito and now everyone wants Floyd to fight him lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
Im not bashing Floyd, he did an excellent job last night but people are going to continue not giving him credit until he fights a natural welterweight. Marquez is a great fighter and Mayweather took him to school but you cant say the weight didn't effect JMM. He didn't carry his weight near as well as Pacquiao up to Welterweight. I hope the Pacquiao-Cotto fight will be much more entertaining, which it almost has to be! Pacquiao comes out on top in a hard fight to set up possibly the most money makin fight of all time! When all the dust has settled, all the smoke cleared, Pacquiao will be the King of boxing!:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KalihiBoyHawaiiMarquez was never the same after Pac put him to sleep walking in their second fight. Fraud beat up a smaller, older, and slower shadow of Marquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockPac scavenged Floyds scraps, the facts are the facts manQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Floyd fought and beat a fresher younger DLH at 154 giving up every advantage including glove type, ring size etc...
Manny beat a corpse of DLH
Floyd punished and KO'D a fresh hungry undefeated Hatton.
Pac KO'D beat a dented version who clearly wasnt the same physically or mentally.
Floyd just destroyed a guy Pac went life and death with 2x... Before anyone jumps on the weight train come fight night Pac weighed about 147 for their contest last time out..
Pac fought Hatton at his most effective and natural weight and finished him in two rounds, Hatton was getting the best of Fraud at times.
Pac came from 130 to totally annihilate the much bigger Oscar who was favored to destroyed Pacquiao.
No credit given to Fraud in beating a 130 pounder who fought a middleweight.
Would you give Tyson credit if he KO'd Hopkins at heavyweight?
Shit, even an average WW would beat Marquez if his opponent is allowed to train at the maximum ww limit.
Pac, Pac, Pac. Do you want to come out the closet and tell us who you are before you get banned, again?:cool:
Floyds back on top imo, Pacquiao's achievements are amazing but Mayweather is the best fighter at the moment!
In saying that I would like to see him solidify that by taking risky challenges like the Pacquiao/ Cotto winner or Mosley
Marquez is a great fighter but those who choose him to win were hoping & wishing, whereas the majority knew Floyd would win, imo Mayweather now needs to make fights where there is a persona he could lose
I agree after seeing this fight, people are delusional if they think Pac can beat Floyd. NO WAY. It will be another shut out. In fact, it is so predictable, the only reason to do the fight is because it is a mega event and all mega events in general are probably good for boxing as a sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyIf you look at the styles. Marquez only landed about 75 punches the fight maybe more. And that had nothing to do with Mayweathers weight. At a lesser weight Floyd would be quicker and faster. Fact is he outquicked and outboxed Marquez. Marquez couldn't find him anywhere in the ring and if you think that it had anything to do with Mayweathers weight it would be delusional.Quote:
Originally Posted by KelYeah I'm with you, he beat a lightweight as a Welterweight woohoo, I fell asleep so missed the fight but I'm surprised as hell he could not stop him.Quote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
I agree it had nothing to do with Mayweather's weight, but it had all to do with Marquez's weight (or size to be more accurate). Floyd could have weighed any weight in the welterweight range and he would have beat Marquez, but Marquez shouldn't be fighting above 135 (maybe 140). What this fight proved was that Marquez has no chance against any elite welterweight. Marquez wouldn't last 7 rounds with Shane, Clottey, Berto, or Cotto.
Listen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeAhhh JT, you know that not everyone is going to agree with you, that's what this place is all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
We all have different things that we look for in a fighter, and therefore, our standards of how to place a fighter is viewed very differently. You see him as number one, some of us don't. Simple as that. ;D
As for me, you know I'm just busting your balls. :mwink:
It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys:rolleyes:
Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight:rolleyes:
I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.
Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
No they wouldn't....fact is floyd is only fighting little guys with big names. If Floyd were to beat mosley there wouldn't be anyone left for him to fight. But he's smart or his handlers are. They're waiting on Shane to look too old then he will fight him.
Don't know when fanboys will get it...Floyd himself said it... "I fight for money not bragging rights"....but then gets mad when not referred as p4p number 1...:rolleyes:
Only idiots wrote him off...Don't know when people are going to get it shane was too bulky at 154 that's why he looked as if he was loading up on every punch. At 47 shane is much more fluid. I've been saying this since his losses to winky. And it could be argued that shane beat winky in the rematch. Since shane has been at 147, he beat collazo, margo, and lost a toss fight against cotto. Don't know why people are using his fights against guys that have been up to MW as a measuring stick. The way he looks at 147 is probably why shane is view as high risk/ medium reward in the eyes of the floyd camp... Only a fool would think that 5-6 Manny, would do better than Mosley or Cotto against PBF.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyQuote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys:rolleyes:
Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight:rolleyes:
Don't listen when people say Floyd should fight Shane, 4 years ago people were saying Shane Mosley was shot and should retire and wasn't the same fighter. And if Floyd had beat him everyone would have said Shane was past it. But he beats Margarito and all of a sudden Mayweather has to fight him? Yeah but when Mosley was getting beat by Wright everyone was writing him off but he stops Vargas and Margarito and now everyone wants Floyd to fight him lol
People will say Baldo was a weak Champ, and I agree 100000% but none the less he wasnt a fringe nabo or any other single title holder. He was considered the lineal Champ. Then he fought Oscar for bocu bucks and Hatton for a bizillion dollars too..Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratListen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI dont have an issue with people being in agreement and I am certainly far from " The all knowing JT" Nor have I ever made such a proclomation. What had me adgitated was the fact mayweather came back from an almost 2 year layoff and wiped out JMM to the point where he landed only 69 punches in a 12 round fight utilizing over 200 landed jabs and defense. I dont think having JMM as a comeback fight warrants all the denigrating talk thats been going around, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
It cracks me up people will say Floyd only fights small guys, really no one wanted to see the Hatton fight? Bullshit!! that was one of the most talked about supposed dream match for years and then JMM calls Floyd out and he makes that his comeback fight and all of a sudden Floyd picks on smaller guys:rolleyes:
Then people say he should fight Shane now and he is a pu$$y if he dosent, meanwhile where was Shane the 2x Floyd called him out? Exactly... But people lauded Shane and Hop for disrespecting Floyd and grandstanding during his interview, saying Shanes a stand up guy and good for him although Mosely was implicated in the Balco scandal for Roids and blood doping for the Oscar fight:rolleyes:
I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.
Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.
No fighter in the History of the sport would have turned down those 2 paydays against DLH and Hatton, no one!! DLH and Baldo enjoyed big damn advantages size wise. He retires, takes a break then takes a get my feet wet agin fight with JMM. So how does Floyd all of a sudden make a career out of fighting smaller guys?
Floyd should be judged adversly on his next few fights if they are against subpar guys who have no business at the weight, but its ridiculous people would go apeshit for making 2 of the richest fights in this era and then taking on JMM albeit a smaller version just to get his feet wet.
Then you have a guy like Hopkins who's biggest wins were against smaller fighters but yet his ass is kissed royally.
Trinidad
DLH
Wright
Pavlik
Etc.
Then he gets beat by Calzaghe who made a career out of 168.
100% agreed...always thought bernard should thank roy jones for his career..because roy left the division. but Bhop did beat Tarver for the LHW crown..Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockPeople will say Baldo was a weak Champ, and I agree 100000% but none the less he wasnt a fringe nabo or any other single title holder. He was considered the lineal Champ. Then he fought Oscar for bocu bucks and Hatton for a bizillion dollars too..Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratListen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.
Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.
No fighter in the History of the sport would have turned down those 2 paydays against DLH and Hatton, no one!! DLH and Baldo enjoyed big damn advantages size wise. He retires, takes a break then takes a get my feet wet agin fight with JMM. So how does Floyd all of a sudden make a career out of fighting smaller guys?
Floyd should be judged adversly on his next few fights if they are against subpar guys who have no business at the weight, but its ridiculous people would go apeshit for making 2 of the richest fights in this era and then taking on JMM albeit a smaller version just to get his feet wet.
Then you have a guy like Hopkins who's biggest wins were against smaller fighters but yet his ass is kissed royally.
Trinidad
DLH
Wright
Pavlik
Etc.
Then he gets beat by Calzaghe who made a career out of 168 .
Oh wait Tarver was super weight drained.
Hopkins is greater than PBF, like it or not.
he has the better resume and showed the same level of ring dominance.
I guess you somehow dispute the above referenced validity Hopkins biggest wins over significantly smaller guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumkalambay
I think Nard had a great career and I appreciate all he has done, but I am barking up his tree to illustrate how Floyd is getting ripped on for fighting Hatton and JMM and then all of a sudden given the circumstances involved he is labeled as a big mean school yard bully who only picks on smaller fighters?
Yet Hopkins did it at just about every big fight in his career. Just dosent add up and thats all I was pointing out.
he still dominated Johnson and Tarver.
trinidad actually proved himself a top fighter by whooping Joppy. the hopkins-trinidad fight is as good as the sweet science gets.
Certainly your not going to suggest Tito at 160 was anywere near the hall of Fame legacy he forged at 147 are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumkalambay
Tarver got Karma in his face by being drained from a heavy in Rocky Balboa.
Glen Johnson wasnt nearly as good at 160 than he was at 175 either..Glen was a construction worker/slash boxer until he got his big break against Jones
I would actually favor Johnson over Hop now at 175 based on Glens chin, workrate and constant pressure. Hop trying to spoil on the inside wouldnt deter Glen since he likes it messy on the inside. Hopkins enemic output would be his demise against Johnsons aggression and volume
first off.. hopkins beats Glen Johnson at MW and LHW. and you're right, Glen Johnson the LHW is a much better fighter than the MW version.
and trinidad obviously forged his HOF career at 147.. he's one of the greats of that weight. i'm saying he was a good fighter at MW.
Tarver was a legitimate win. weight-drained or not.
Yes I realize that... I am the one who pointed it out :headscratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by sumkalambay
I don't recall Hopkins accusing Mayweather as a fighter picking on smaller fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI guess you somehow dispute the above referenced validity Hopkins biggest wins over significantly smaller guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumkalambay
I think Nard had a great career and I appreciate all he has done, but I am barking up his tree to illustrate how Floyd is getting ripped on for fighting Hatton and JMM and then all of a sudden given the circumstances involved he is labeled as a big mean school yard bully who only picks on smaller fighters?
Yet Hopkins did it at just about every big fight in his career. Just dosent add up and thats all I was pointing out.
In most of Hopkins big fights he was the underdog so i don't understand how you can accuse him of picking on smaller fighters when he wasn't supposed to beat them.
For example Trinidad,Wright and Pavlik were the favourites to beat Hopkins.
Trinidad was supposed to ko Hopkins, instead all he got was a 12 round schooling and his ass sent into retirement. That was when the weight excuses came along.
Wright was supposed to have too much workrate for the 42 year old Hopkins to deal with but instead Hopkins ends up outworking Wright to a close but clear decision. The weight excuse didn't come along till \wright had an L in his loss column.
Pavlik was supposed to have too much pressure and power for the old man Hopkins to handle but instead Pavlik gets the biggest ass whooping in his career and loses by a pure shut out. surprise surprise people mention how Pavlik shouldn't of moved up to 170 when it wasn't a problem before the fight no ? Pavlik's bad performance had nothing to do with the fact that Hopkins used lateral movement, constant angles, his sharp defense, quick counters and superior handspeed to totally stun Pavlik. no it wasn't was it. :rolleyes:
Then there's the DLH fight who i am willing to admit wasn't the fair fight as Hopkins was simply too big for Oscar. One thing people due tend to forget though, is that they fought at a catchweight of 156 which was only two pounds shy of where DLH was natural at..... at that stage of his career.
then once you include his big win over Tarver ( he was weight drained right ? :rolleyes:), that wasn't the case before though as Tarver was the clear favourite to win.
After all of that include solid wins over Eastman, Echols, Lipsey and Johnson and you got a man with a great career.
dude don't try to downplay Hopkins' wins cause it'll come back to bite you in the ass, mainly cause it can easily be done with MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by JT RockCertainly your not going to suggest Tito at 160 was anywere near the hall of Fame legacy he forged at 147 are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumkalambay
Tarver got Karma in his face by being drained from a heavy in Rocky Balboa.
Glen Johnson wasnt nearly as good at 160 than he was at 175 either..Glen was a construction worker/slash boxer until he got his big break against Jones
I would actually favor Johnson over Hop now at 175 based on Glens chin, workrate and constant pressure. Hop trying to spoil on the inside wouldnt deter Glen since he likes it messy on the inside. Hopkins enemic output would be his demise against Johnsons aggression and volume
Corrales, Hernandez, Chavez, and Castillo weren't at their peak when Mayweather took them on (Chavez & Hernandez still hadn't won titles, and Castillo although he should have a win over Mayweather wasn't the fighter that basically owned the lightweight division till his fight with Corrales)
Corley had already lost to Judah, Gatti already shot, Mitchell was already way past it, Judah had already lost to Baldomir, do i believe any of that crap, no, but it can easily be implicated
plus bhop dominated his division, has floyd? bhop may have taken on smaller fighters then him but he took care of business unlike floyd. floyds division is filled with threats he aint have the balls to take care of.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticI don't recall Hopkins accusing Mayweather as a fighter picking on smaller fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI guess you somehow dispute the above referenced validity Hopkins biggest wins over significantly smaller guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumkalambay
I think Nard had a great career and I appreciate all he has done, but I am barking up his tree to illustrate how Floyd is getting ripped on for fighting Hatton and JMM and then all of a sudden given the circumstances involved he is labeled as a big mean school yard bully who only picks on smaller fighters?
Yet Hopkins did it at just about every big fight in his career. Just dosent add up and thats all I was pointing out.
In most of Hopkins big fights he was the underdog so i don't understand how you can accuse him of picking on smaller fighters when he wasn't supposed to beat them.
For example Trinidad,Wright and Pavlik were the favourites to beat Hopkins.
Trinidad was supposed to ko Hopkins, instead all he got was a 12 round schooling and his ass sent into retirement. That was when the weight excuses came along.
Wright was supposed to have too much workrate for the 42 year old Hopkins to deal with but instead Hopkins ends up outworking Wright to a close but clear decision. The weight excuse didn't come along till \wright had an L in his loss column.
Pavlik was supposed to have too much pressure and power for the old man Hopkins to handle but instead Pavlik gets the biggest ass whooping in his career and loses by a pure shut out. surprise surprise people mention how Pavlik shouldn't of moved up to 170 when it wasn't a problem before the fight no ? Pavlik's bad performance had nothing to do with the fact that Hopkins used lateral movement, constant angles, his sharp defense, quick counters and superior handspeed to totally stun Pavlik. no it wasn't was it. :rolleyes:
Then there's the DLH fight who i am willing to admit wasn't the fair fight as Hopkins was simply too big for Oscar. One thing people due tend to forget though, is that they fought at a catchweight of 156 which was only two pounds shy of where DLH was natural at..... at that stage of his career.
then once you include his big win over Tarver ( he was weight drained right ? :rolleyes:), that wasn't the case before though as Tarver was the clear favourite to win.
After all of that include solid wins over Eastman, Echols, Lipsey and Johnson and you got a man with a great career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rainplus bhop dominated his division, has floyd? bhop may have taken on smaller fighters then him but he took care of business unlike floyd. floyds division is filled with threats he aint have the balls to take care of.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticI don't recall Hopkins accusing Mayweather as a fighter picking on smaller fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
In most of Hopkins big fights he was the underdog so i don't understand how you can accuse him of picking on smaller fighters when he wasn't supposed to beat them.
For example Trinidad,Wright and Pavlik were the favourites to beat Hopkins.
Trinidad was supposed to ko Hopkins, instead all he got was a 12 round schooling and his ass sent into retirement. That was when the weight excuses came along.
Wright was supposed to have too much workrate for the 42 year old Hopkins to deal with but instead Hopkins ends up outworking Wright to a close but clear decision. The weight excuse didn't come along till \wright had an L in his loss column.
Pavlik was supposed to have too much pressure and power for the old man Hopkins to handle but instead Pavlik gets the biggest ass whooping in his career and loses by a pure shut out. surprise surprise people mention how Pavlik shouldn't of moved up to 170 when it wasn't a problem before the fight no ? Pavlik's bad performance had nothing to do with the fact that Hopkins used lateral movement, constant angles, his sharp defense, quick counters and superior handspeed to totally stun Pavlik. no it wasn't was it. :rolleyes:
Then there's the DLH fight who i am willing to admit wasn't the fair fight as Hopkins was simply too big for Oscar. One thing people due tend to forget though, is that they fought at a catchweight of 156 which was only two pounds shy of where DLH was natural at..... at that stage of his career.
then once you include his big win over Tarver ( he was weight drained right ? :rolleyes:), that wasn't the case before though as Tarver was the clear favourite to win.
After all of that include solid wins over Eastman, Echols, Lipsey and Johnson and you got a man with a great career.
Thats quite an oxymoron Rains.. The whole premise of this conversation was to draw an illustration of how Floyd is all of a sudden fighting nothing but smaller fighters. So what your implying is Floyd is doing nothing wrong as long as he keeps fighting smaller guys coming up in weight like Hopkins :headscratch:
Again its foolish to try and compare a severly lacking Middleweight division that BHop ruled than the golden Era of the 140's today.
Point being you cant rake on Floyd for fighting 2 guys back to back that were not Welters and than laud Hop for doing it. Sorry dosent add up, any way you spin it, undeniably Hops biggest wins were against guys that were naturally smaller than him.
I am not tainting Hop's career he deserves all of his due and accolades, I'm just making a comparison on how its a blatant double standard
Tito going in total different direction from JMM with added weight & had legitimized himself at Middle with destruction of Champion Joppy....also I'm sure he was actually the favorite going in vs. Hopkins with a match with Roy Jones waiting in the wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesdude don't try to downplay Hopkins' wins cause it'll come back to bite you in the ass, mainly cause it can easily be done with MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by JT RockCertainly your not going to suggest Tito at 160 was anywere near the hall of Fame legacy he forged at 147 are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumkalambay
Tarver got Karma in his face by being drained from a heavy in Rocky Balboa.
Glen Johnson wasnt nearly as good at 160 than he was at 175 either..Glen was a construction worker/slash boxer until he got his big break against Jones
I would actually favor Johnson over Hop now at 175 based on Glens chin, workrate and constant pressure. Hop trying to spoil on the inside wouldnt deter Glen since he likes it messy on the inside. Hopkins enemic output would be his demise against Johnsons aggression and volume
Corrales, Hernandez, Chavez, and Castillo weren't at their peak when Mayweather took them on (Chavez & Hernandez still hadn't won titles, and Castillo although he should have a win over Mayweather wasn't the fighter that basically owned the lightweight division till his fight with Corrales)
Corley had already lost to Judah, Gatti already shot, Mitchell was already way past it, Judah had already lost to Baldomir, do i believe any of that crap, no, but it can easily be implicated
1st and foremost your way off point here, no one is discrediting Hopkins wins, for the upteenth time I am drawing a comparison and pointing out that you cant label Mayweather as a guy who all of a sudden has made a habit out of fighting smaller guys, when Hops biggest wins were against undersized opponents, you cant escape that reality its truthful factual information.
Then you are spouting off all the guys Floyd fought and are rambling on about how they werent this or that, when it reality Floyd beat those guys WHO WERE HIS OWN SIZE OR BIGGER THAN HIM, then you are using severly delusional hindsight to say they didnt do this that or the other thing till after Floyd.:rolleyes:
Go ahead dude put your money were your mouth is and make a whole new thread out on the main board and knock Mayweathers wins against Castillo, Corrales, Chavez etc. and see what kind of responses you'll get. I'll be sure to wear kevlar boxers so I dont get bit in the ass to bad:rolleyes:
I understand why (money as you pointed out) Floyd fought Hatton and DLH, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he hasn't faced an elite welterweight and he has campaigned at the weight for five years (Baldomir doesn't count, sorry). And he needed an easy match-up for his comeback fight so he chose Marquez. Fair enough. From this point going forward he needs to fight dominant guys at his weight class and if there aren't any dominant fighters at his weight class, then he should go up in weight, not down in weight, to look for them. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockPeople will say Baldo was a weak Champ, and I agree 100000% but none the less he wasnt a fringe nabo or any other single title holder. He was considered the lineal Champ. Then he fought Oscar for bocu bucks and Hatton for a bizillion dollars too..Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratListen JT, Floyd is a dominant fighter. NO debate about that statement. The knock on him is that he has never faced a true, elite welterweight although he has fought at welterweight for the last 4 years. That will always be the knock on him. This debate was happening when Floyd retired two years ago and his domination over Marquez doesn't change anything because Marquez was another smaller fighter he dominated. I won't argue that Floyd may beat all the elite welterweights out there, but he hasn't fought one! Not a single one. And for a while, it was claimed to be the deepest division.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I would rather see Floyd wipe the floor with the elite welterweights than beat up guys who shouldn't fight above 140. Doing so will solidify his greatness.
Floyd will beat him, but at least Pacquiao is willing to be the smaller man and the underdog when going into his fights (he was smaller and the underdog against ODLH and was smaller than Hatton and will be against Cotto). Pacquiao is vulnerable. He takes risks. That is why people like him.
No fighter in the History of the sport would have turned down those 2 paydays against DLH and Hatton, no one!! DLH and Baldo enjoyed big damn advantages size wise. He retires, takes a break then takes a get my feet wet agin fight with JMM. So how does Floyd all of a sudden make a career out of fighting smaller guys?
Floyd should be judged adversly on his next few fights if they are against subpar guys who have no business at the weight, but its ridiculous people would go apeshit for making 2 of the richest fights in this era and then taking on JMM albeit a smaller version just to get his feet wet.
Then you have a guy like Hopkins who's biggest wins were against smaller fighters but yet his ass is kissed royally.
Trinidad
DLH
Wright
Pavlik
Etc.
Then he gets beat by Calzaghe who made a career out of 168.
Hopkins v. PBF is a good question and deserves a whole thread.
One more thing, PBF may have reclaimed his p4p #1 spot from Pac, but Pac easily reclaims it if he beats Cotto (although I don't think he will).
seriously am I on another Fukin planet here? This isint about JMM, this is about how ALL OF YOUR GUYS REPOITRE of hate has the addition now of how Floyd is a guy who only fights Small guys:rolleyes: So maybe Trinidad wasnt the best example, but now we'll ignoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Wright
Pavlik
Dlh
Calzaghe, who beat Hopkins.
etc.
I cant believe of all people Spicoli I gotta hammer this home repetitively to get you off of my ass too... Big deal he fought JMM after 21 months out of the ring, it was a comeback fight a litmus test for chrise sakes. then before that he took a bizillion dollar dream fight against Hatton, which for the preceding years was one of the most heated debates of this decade over who would win, this was a HUGE FIGHT WORLDWIDE... You guys were right though he should have skipped on all of that and fought Margarito who just had got beaten by a prospect at the time Paul Williams(using elterriblemorrales logic here since it seems to be the only thing working for all of you) or Cotto who already had a fight lined up with Mosely who all of you think he should have fought too even though they were both contracted to fight each other
Prior to all of that Floyd gave up size plenty.. Look at his career its littered with it
I agree that Baldo was shit, but that still didnt mean that we wasnt the lineal champ at 147.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI understand why (money as you pointed out) Floyd fought Hatton and DLH, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he hasn't faced an elite welterweight and he has campaigned at the weight for five years (Baldomir doesn't count, sorry). And he needed an easy match-up for his comeback fight so he chose Marquez. Fair enough. From this point going forward he needs to fight dominant guys at his weight class and if there aren't any dominant fighters at his weight class, then he should go up in weight, not down in weight, to look for them. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockPeople will say Baldo was a weak Champ, and I agree 100000% but none the less he wasnt a fringe nabo or any other single title holder. He was considered the lineal Champ. Then he fought Oscar for bocu bucks and Hatton for a bizillion dollars too..Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
No fighter in the History of the sport would have turned down those 2 paydays against DLH and Hatton, no one!! DLH and Baldo enjoyed big damn advantages size wise. He retires, takes a break then takes a get my feet wet agin fight with JMM. So how does Floyd all of a sudden make a career out of fighting smaller guys?
Floyd should be judged adversly on his next few fights if they are against subpar guys who have no business at the weight, but its ridiculous people would go apeshit for making 2 of the richest fights in this era and then taking on JMM albeit a smaller version just to get his feet wet.
Then you have a guy like Hopkins who's biggest wins were against smaller fighters but yet his ass is kissed royally.
Trinidad
DLH
Wright
Pavlik
Etc.
Then he gets beat by Calzaghe who made a career out of 168.
Hopkins v. PBF is a good question and deserves a whole thread.
One more thing, PBF may have reclaimed his p4p #1 spot from Pac, but Pac easily reclaims it if he beats Cotto (although I don't think he will).
I said the same thing, Floyd grabbed the money the fame and the accolades against Delahoya and Hatton just like everyother fighter would have done and already had done in that position. Cotto is doing the same vs Pac and Shane was in the mix jockying too for the money and the shot to pick off the sports PFP#1 fighter
I don't think there was ever much debate about who would the Hatton fight JT ;D
You certainly know far well you were in the minority of British people who thought Floyd would beat Ricky, I like to believe you at least remember th line that was drawn in the sand here, when the debates were quite rabid and abundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
You do remember right?
Just winding you up geezer ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockYou certainly know far well you were in the minority of British people who thought Floyd would beat Ricky, I like to believe you at least remember th line that was drawn in the sand here, when the debates were quite rabid and abundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
You do remember right?
so your going with the excuse that the welter is at a golden era so that gives floyd the reason not to try clear up the division? What I was saying is it wouldnt be a bad thing if floyd had cleared up 147, like what bhop did with the middleweight division. Fighting smaller fighters who come to him at 147 after clearing up his division or atleast have 1 or 2 fights in the direction of clearing it up would be all good. Not how his doing it now, showing no effort to clear up what you say is a golden era of the welters but declaring himself atg by picking on smaller fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockThats quite an oxymoron Rains.. The whole premise of this conversation was to draw an illustration of how Floyd is all of a sudden fighting nothing but smaller fighters. So what your implying is Floyd is doing nothing wrong as long as he keeps fighting smaller guys coming up in weight like Hopkins :headscratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rainplus bhop dominated his division, has floyd? bhop may have taken on smaller fighters then him but he took care of business unlike floyd. floyds division is filled with threats he aint have the balls to take care of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
Again its foolish to try and compare a severly lacking Middleweight division that BHop ruled than the golden Era of the 140's today.
Point being you cant rake on Floyd for fighting 2 guys back to back that were not Welters and than laud Hop for doing it. Sorry dosent add up, any way you spin it, undeniably Hops biggest wins were against guys that were naturally smaller than him.
I am not tainting Hop's career he deserves all of his due and accolades, I'm just making a comparison on how its a blatant double standard
Would be interesting to see who floyd fights next.
Lesser fighter but bigger guys then JMM did better then JMM against floyd, but weight had nothing to do with the results still right?