Who though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
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Who though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
You dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWho though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Calzaghe - Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, SheikaQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWho though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Ward - Green, Abraham, Froch, Kessler, Miranda
There isn't all that much in it. Eubank was faded, so was Kessler. People are going to remember Green and Miranda just as much as they do Sheika and Woodhall. Abraham and Veit are your token popular in Germany fighters. Reid was a good fighter though never going to go down as a great, a bit like Froch who only beat a well faded Reid.
The only difference was Calzaghe was busier and had more filler.
You mean had alot of defences against club fighters ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfCalzaghe - Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, SheikaQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWho though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Ward - Green, Abraham, Froch, Kessler, Miranda
There isn't all that much in it. Eubank was faded, so was Kessler. People are going to remember Green and Miranda just as much as they do Sheika and Woodhall. Abraham and Veit are your token popular in Germany fighters. Reid was a good fighter though never going to go down as a great, a bit like Froch who only beat a well faded Reid.
The only difference was Calzaghe was busier and had more filler.
Sheika had lost to ( 28 -44 -7 ) Tony Booth for fucks sake.
Yet beaten Glen Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou mean had alot of defences against club fighters ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfCalzaghe - Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, SheikaQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWho though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Ward - Green, Abraham, Froch, Kessler, Miranda
There isn't all that much in it. Eubank was faded, so was Kessler. People are going to remember Green and Miranda just as much as they do Sheika and Woodhall. Abraham and Veit are your token popular in Germany fighters. Reid was a good fighter though never going to go down as a great, a bit like Froch who only beat a well faded Reid.
The only difference was Calzaghe was busier and had more filler.
Sheika had lost to Tony Booth for fucks sake.
Ward potentially might end up with a better resume than Calzaghe, but anything more right now is just premature and I don't think he will be able to last the course. Let me know if Ward is still around and unbeaten at 36. It is just not going to happen.
To do more than Calzaghe means defending his titles year in year out and then taking on LHW. He has a lot more to do and I have a hard time seeing it.
Feel free guys to disagree but I reckon in a rematch froch chances against ward are very good, I think ward was beginning to buckle under froch strength but watch ward on the inside and notice froch fighting back the same and also landing, I seriously don't think ward would want to fight froch again because froch has serious determination, but Calzaghe high punch output would beat anyone.
I think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
Back in the day Joe could slap a motherfucker out... Not really sure what happened to his power over the years ??? But i'm sure it would of been a very close fight either way. Joe looked far from unbeatable but always won... Ward is pretty flawless and shrewd but he wouldn't put a dent in Joe's confidence so i think it'd be Joe who finishes the more vibrantly... It just depends on how things went down during the first 8 rounds.
Hmmm...
Okay, i'd be more inclined to see how Ward's career develops over the next 3-5 years but i'm thinking this would be a slightly epic draw.
REMATCH! ;D
I'm pretty sure Froch would of been one hell of a 15 round fighter. The guy just always seems to be in full swing by the 12 round!Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
Yeah spot on. Ward has the potential but a long way to go yet. He hasn't even conclusively proved to be THE best Supermiddleweight yet. I believe most people have Bute rated no.2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Not too long ago it was very common to read "Pavlik has a better resume than Calzaghe." One drubbing later - to a Calzaghe victim - and the poor guy is a bum that no longer warrants a mention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?
every other fight he had were pretty confortable
Reid was only tough because Calzaghe buggered his hand up. He was coasting relatively easily up until then. Calzaghe has never looked particularly beatable to me. He didn't lose many rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?
every other fight he had were pretty confortable
Froch output was pretty decent throughout his career so where is the problem?? Is it his slow starting that lets him down?? I was hoping he would start out like against pascalQuote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
I won't read anything by Scott Gilfoid.
He didn't lose his power. His hands weakened. It's what happens to volume punchers after years of punching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
It's hard to explain, but for some reason Froch doesn't do enough and loses too many rounds. The Johnson fight was harder than it really should have been, against Taylor he was well down. Froch is a determined fighter and that has helped him overcome tough opposition, but that toughness alone isn't enough against Ward. Froch makes silly mistakes and Ward knows how to make him pay. Froch is there to be hit and obliges his opponent by allowing them to get off more punches. The only time he has been truly dominant was against Abraham who in turn simply refused to throw any punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by DropanukeFroch output was pretty decent throughout his career so where is the problem?? Is it his slow starting that lets him down?? I was hoping he would start out like against pascalQuote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI think Froch could do better in a rematch, but I don't think his style is in any way what Ward fears the most. Froch's output is just too low and predictable to bother Ward excessively. His only way is land something big, but Froch doesn't seem to be able to dent people at the top. Taylor was an age ago now. Froch's problem is his style, too easy to hit and just not enough coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
I was hoping he would be able to put some hurt on Ward and do it early, but it was the same old thing. He did come on late, but it was far too late. Froch looked confused and it was obvious how his own flaws were finally being made to come up and bite him. He couldn't do anything, but grit his teeth and hope Ward would slow and he did. Froch is fun against people who want to fight, but slicksters who can box have only made him look slow and cumbersome. We saw this most obviously with Taylor and again here.
Dirrell is a slickster, but I thought Froch did outwork him so I don't include him so much. Though it was a stylistic mess. Dirrell wouldn't throw punches either. That was a horrible fight. Some here seem to think Dirrell won, but I disagree.
Yes I thought he beat dirrell, who reckons froch could win a rematch??Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I reckon he could whereas I don't think Kessler would
I have no objection to either Froch or Kessler having a Ward rematch. Kesslers fight was a particular mess and no way was that him at optimum level. Froch could possibly make some alterations.Quote:
Originally Posted by DropanukeYes I thought he beat dirrell, who reckons froch could win a rematch??Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
I reckon he could whereas I don't think Kessler would
I really wouldn't mind seeing them.
Andre Ward beats Carl Froch and Mikkell Kessler again. I don't believe Froch can handle Ward's speed. Froch is slick, but he just isn't athletic enough to compete with Ward. Kessler is a great basic fighter. Ward has too many wrinkles up his sleeve for Kessler. The more intriguing match ups for Ward are against Bute and Andre Dirrell because the speed gap and the craftiness gap aren't as wide. If Ward wanted to go for gold and legacy, the next fight would be Bute so he could end any conversation about who is the best at 168. Instead, in his own words, "So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now" and "This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision." Andre Ward-Lucian Bute bout looks unlikely for time being - ESPN
The other route would be to face his mandatory, Anthony Dirrell, and build a story for an end of 2012 fight with Andre Dirrell assuming Andre looks good on 12/30.
Robin Reid landed all the eye catching punches, the one's that constantly snapped back Joe Calzaghe's head, i felt Robin Reid won the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfReid was only tough because Calzaghe buggered his hand up. He was coasting relatively easily up until then. Calzaghe has never looked particularly beatable to me. He didn't lose many rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
joe had a couple of fights, reid and one other where he didnt really perform but appart from that which fights did he look beatable in?
every other fight he had were pretty confortable
honestly I think Froch does still have a chance against Ward, I dont think ward wins everytimeQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Ward won the fight clearly but everyone is bumming him a little too much
he won the first four and then four out of the last 8
if the fight had of gone on another 3, looking at the scores from the judges, Froch would more than likely have won
i know that sounds daft, who fights for 15 rounds anymore, but Ward's stamina is questionable, he has faded in a number of fights
one day someone will get to him late
he won the super six as the best fighter in the competition no doubt. But fighting every fight in his home country, also fighting green and AA (who had come off a significant loss) along the way, and avoiding a fight against Dirrell, compare that to how froch got to the final
and where the final was held
ive watched that fight twice, first time i thought reid won second time i realised i was wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
One of the judges that had Froch-Ward 115-113 gave FRoch 4 of the first 5 rounds. He gave the last three to Ward. I don't think Froch's strong finish was really that impressive.
I honestly can't see a single reason why Froch would ever beat Ward.
They fight ten times it's 10 nil to Jesus.
If Ward hooks up with Warren for the most part of his career , i think there a good chance he will end up unbeaten , maybe when Calzaghe is 41 , Ward will try to get a fight with him to define his destiny?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
MR Druggy calaghe knew when to retire!!!
he not active sooooo how is he relevant???
He's beatable when you think about it, RIGHT?
But what happens when you fight him???
not what people are saying
I agree with Miles 100% on this thread..
Ward is not on Calzaghe's level..
He's more like a blend of John Ruiz, Hopkins, and Ricky Hatton...
I dont know how anyone could compare him to Roy Jones... lmfao really??
Roy and Ward are like night and day.. They have nothing in common except for the fact that Ward did try to emulate Roy's style very early in his career.. We're talking the days when he got rocked by Darnell Boone.. lol
He's better off with his new wrestling style though cuz it works real well.. He's like the new Hopkins in a sense that he's an illusionist who makes people believe he's a better fighter than he really is..
The current version of Ward vs the 2007 version of Calzaghe = 50/50 fight imo.
I know I'm late to the party here, but - aside from losing every minute of every round - what has Kessler done to deserve a rematch with Ward?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI think Kessler deserves a rematch. Bute would be a logical fight. Also Hopkins and maybe down the line a fight with Chad Dawson.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXXWho's Ward supposed to beat? Obviously, we can't assess his longevity for a while, but just in the last 2 1/2 years, he's beaten Miranda, Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika, and Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Wow..just wow..Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfQuote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Joe Calzaghe fought decent opposition during his career.
This is a good post although I'll wait to see with how good Ward can get. He may perfect his style and at that point he could be very tough to beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Calzaghe to fast for Ward ,have you seen anybody out box Joe no,
I no one thing Ward, could not out box him, as for Froch, he is game
but is one-dimensional to me a bit of a plodder.;D:sheep:
Who has come close to outboxing Ward ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
The Glen Johnson, Calzaghe was deadly afraid to face.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYet beaten Glen Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou mean had alot of defences against club fighters ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfCalzaghe - Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, SheikaQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlYou dont think Ward has fought better opposition than Calzaghe at the same stage of their respective careers ?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWho though? I really don't see anyone on Ward's resume that is better than the best fighters on Calzaghe's resume. It doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Ward - Green, Abraham, Froch, Kessler, Miranda
There isn't all that much in it. Eubank was faded, so was Kessler. People are going to remember Green and Miranda just as much as they do Sheika and Woodhall. Abraham and Veit are your token popular in Germany fighters. Reid was a good fighter though never going to go down as a great, a bit like Froch who only beat a well faded Reid.
The only difference was Calzaghe was busier and had more filler.
Sheika had lost to Tony Booth for fucks sake.
I think the only fighters who could potentially beat Ward right now are Bute or Andre Dirrell (if he's the same after returning from layoff) but even still you would have to favor Ward in both those matchups based on his versatility.
Calzaghe would of beaten Ward in my opinion prime for prime. Ward tired late in the fight against Froch who wasn't really throwing or landing many punches. Calzaghe with his workrate would certainly test Wards conditioning.
I think Ward would be tricky for Joe in the first few rounds but then Calzaghe starts to get his rhythm going then ups the workrate eventually outworking Ward down the stretch.
I don't get the comparsions with Ward and Jones or Floyd,etc.
Andre Ward right now reminds me of an older Hopkins with a slightly higher workrate.
Ward like an older Hopkins picks his punches well and utilizes all his tools whether it be on the inside or outside.
Sounds like that judge had never seen a fight beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
But the point isnt that froch had a strong finish, its that ward fades
Firstly, with respect to anyone who thinks that a second Froch-Ward fight would go any differently, Froch doesn't even think he could beat Ward. He's already said that he's the second-best 168-pounder, and that nobody can beat Ward at 168.
Secondly, it's a myth that Calzaghe cleaned out the 168-pound division. He beat many good fighters, but there were A LOT of top contenders that for one reason or another, he never took on. Pick up a random Ring Magazine from the Calzaghe era, and you'll see a lot of names in the top-5 of the 168-pound division that Calzaghe never got in the ring with. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have beaten them; but it's just patently false that he beat all of the big names in the division.
Thirdly, since the Calzaghe fight, with the exception of the Ward fight, Kessler is 5-0 (4), including a solid win against the division's #3. So it's bullshit to discount Ward's victory by saying that Kessler is somehow markedly worse than he was against Calzaghe; it's just that Ward made him LOOK bad. The 2011 Ward is better than ANY year's Kessler, and Calzaghe, while he beat him decisively, hardly "destroyed" him. To say that Ward hasn't done against anyone else the types of things that he would need to go to beat Calzaghe misses the point; it doesn't imply that Ward is incapable of doing those things. He just hasn't needed to do them against anyone else. What Ward has shown is that to date, he can do whatever is needed to beat the people put in front of him. That doesn't mean that he necessarily would be able to adjust successfully against Calzaghe, but there's no particular reason to think that he wouldn't, either. IMO, 2011 Ward vs. (insert your favorite 168-pound year here) Calzaghe would be a close, competitive, and highly entertaining fight.
Look i like joe, but his creditbility deserved or not isn't really all that good in the boxing world,especially in the states. Calzaghe has shown to be way way more good but beatable than ward. Like the the two senior citizens that put him on his ass. Ward aint the greatest but geeeezzzz going out of your way to hate on the guy out of the blue as if you're still a factor in the sport is silly. Find something to do joe. Or help enzo or something.
Floyd & Andre have a very similar bag of tricks when on the inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic