Larry Holmes---greatest of all-tıme?

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

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What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

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ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

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He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

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Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

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I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

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I couldn't stand him either.

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I don't know about you, bro. But I've never seen a more irreverent, "whiney" jerk in my years of following boxing. He disrespected Rocky Marciano, when the poor guy wasn't even around anymore to defend himself. No other boxer to my knowledge has ever done that. He whined constantly about not getting enough of "this" or enough of "that", because he was black. It got to the point to where just looking at his sorry ass face rubbed me the wrong way. I was ecstatic when Tyson knocked the stuffing out of him.

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In express fashion!!

It just doesn't stand to reason that the greatest of all time gets knocked out in 4 rounds... Even if he was 38.

Hell Lennox Lewis was 38 and under prepared when he was tearing Vitali's face to shreds.

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I like to think it was "karma".
Apparently.... Holmes couldn't carry Tyson's jock.


;)

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

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What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

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ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

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He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

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Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

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I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

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I couldn't stand him either.

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I don't know about you, bro. But I've never seen a more irreverent, "whiney" jerk in my years of following boxing. He disrespected Rocky Marciano, when the poor guy wasn't even around anymore to defend himself. No other boxer to my knowledge has ever done that. He whined constantly about not getting enough of "this" or enough of "that", because he was black. It got to the point to where just looking at his sorry ass face rubbed me the wrong way. I was ecstatic when Tyson knocked the stuffing out of him.

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It was and still is the itch the wont heal for me also. His ability to communicate well to the press and articulate a thought left a lot to be desired. His claims that he was forced to fight Ali by King is also suspect imo. I mean I blame King but no way is Holmes innocent in that conspiracy. I wanted so bad at the time to see Cooney stretch him out. Having said that as the years have ticked by and I have looked back at his fights over the years, he was pretty dam good.

Yea also speaking of guys 38 when Holyfeild fought a prime Lewis the second time around in the rematch he gave him his toughest fight. I think the fight results for there fights should of been reversed.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

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*well..if i say it,i better be able to name them... let's see.
Ike Ibeabuchi:
Bowe:
Holyfeild
Byrd
Tyson
Vitali Klitsko
Wlad Klitsko
Lennox
Tua
I'm stuck on 9... David Haye.

Holmes had a nice jab, but really... what else. He had a super-fight with Cooney... that's a super-fight? That's the highlight of his career? He was taken to near death with Ken Norton at the end of Nortons career...
This is the way i see it, it's only my opinion... "Great heavyweights... don't lose to great light-heavyweights... If Holmes was that good, he should've run over Spinx...

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

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*well..if i say it,i better be able to name them... let's see.
Ike Ibeabuchi: He could get to Larry and he might also get beat senseless and just because he might get to Larry does not equate to Holmes not being great.
Bowe: Good one but I still give the edge to Larry because of Bowes shaky brain pan. And btw if Bowe could hold it together he's be a test for anyone in history.
Holyfeild:He beat a worn out Holmes. Larry had already been in the game for 20 years. I think a prime Holmes cruises to a ud.
Byrd: Larry knocks him cold.
Tyson: Even split when Larry was in his prime
Vitali Klitsko: No matter how good he looked with a Lewis who chose to stand in front of him, Holmes would tear him apart
Wlad Klitsko: The present Wlad would be a tough go but the one prior to Steward gets starched.
Lennox:Beats Holmes imo and on any given night motivated could probably beat anyone in history.
Tua: Looks a lot like the Shavers fight but Tua's chin holds out for the final bell
I'm stuck on 9... David Haye: Less of a chance then Tyson but a better chance then Byrd.

Holmes had a nice jab, but really... what else. He had a super-fight with Cooney... that's a super-fight? That's the highlight of his career? He was taken to near death with Ken Norton at the end of Nortons career...
This is the way i see it, it's only my opinion... "Great heavyweights... don't lose to great light-heavyweights... If Holmes was that good, he should've run over Spinx...

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I have got to hand it to you that’s not to bad a list however I don’t agree with many as I have commented in the quote.

As far as “great heavyweights don’t lose to great light heavyweights” goes that’s quite debatable. Spinks being able to do it to Larry does not necessarily mean that Holmes is not a great heavyweight. And btw he got jobbed in the first Spinks fight. I guess it all depends on ones definition of great. I consider Wills, Jeannette and McVey great heavyweights where a lot of people would not. Yet Langford knocked them all out at least once and he was in reality no where near even a light heavyweight. I mean if Louis was that good he should have run over Conn right?

Anyway good stuff

*i just wanted to point out that there have been a few very VERY tough heavyweights in the last 10 years...
I knew Cris Byrd would be really questioned...1st of all..He fought all comers in the heavyweight div... off the top of my head..both klitsko's, ike Ibeabuchi, purity,oquendo,Tua,..Mckline.holyfeild.LOL..that's a crazy list...
Cris Byrd is a heavyweight version of Micheal Spinx... i see Holmes no where near as dangerous as half the fighters he fought... Byrd would attack Holmes without fear and pitter patting himself to a UD everytime.

I just wanted to point out that there is no denying that Holmes was a great heavyweight. I'm not suggesting he's the GOAT.

I just think Holmes is ranked too high... We can speculate that Holmes coulbve beat anyone on my list... But in reality, who did he ever beat? A very old Norton... Lost terribly to Tyson..and lost to Spinx... How can anyone really make an argument that Holmes could beat anyone on my list when he couldnt beat Spinx?...twice.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

I just think Holmes is ranked too high... We can speculate that Holmes coulbve beat anyone on my list... But in reality, who did he ever beat? A very old Norton... Lost terribly to Tyson..and lost to Spinx... How can anyone really make an argument that Holmes could beat anyone on my list when he couldnt beat Spinx?...twice.

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Chris Byrd? You crazy! Holmes was old when he fought Tyson and even the Spinks fight. You are being selective with your argument.

Wait.wait... Holmes would go on to have a nice win over Mercer... Was undefeated when he fought Spinx and fought for another 15years after the spinx loses... Maybe he wasnt what he was... But he wasnt old.
also...why not Cris Bird? Bird was a much bettrr fihter tha Spinx at heavyweight... Bird was spinx,at heavyweight....

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

No doubt robbed agaınst Spınks by a vengeful Don Kıng----thıs guy never lost, and IMO beat Marciano's record of 49 straıght wıns by beatıng Spınks both tımes on many people's cards. Bad luck to have to follow the "greatest of all tıme"---not only that but havıng to beat up the "greatest of all tıme" as well. Yeah not a very popular guy after that, not to mentıon not very charısmatıc eıther. SECOND ONLY TO THE BROWN BOMBER AS HE DEFENDED HIS TITLE 20 CONSECUTIVE TIMES SUCCESSFULLY. What thanks dıd he get? >He beat the monster Gerry Cooney (Foreman saıd Cooney hıt harder than Frazıer), Shavers twıce ın dramatıc fashıon, Wıtherspoon, Weaver, Wıllıams, Norton and everyone else they put ın front of hım. I rank hım hıgher than Dempsey, Frazıer, Tunney, Holyfıeld, Bowe and Lennox Lewıs. Tıed wıth Alı IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePUXS...feature=relmfu

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He lost to a 15-0 tim witherspoon and carl williams. Check out his face after wiliams was through with him too....and losing to a LHW is inexcusable!

http://store03.prostores.com/dcbcoll...14d863af_m.JPG

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No he didn't lose to Witherspoon, Williams, they were close fights but Holmes edged them. I had Holmes winning both fights by 1 point, the commentators were very biased towards Witherspoon especially Dundee horrible commentary.

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Sure **** he did! He had Holmes on the verge of knockout in the 9th and outshone him in the majority of the rounds. Isn't it proof enough that one judge scored it for Witherspoon, the underdog?

Can remember Larry being interviewed after the fight, and it was pointed out, that most people thought he'd lost.. He wasn't at all dismissive, & just responded by saying, it was up to the judges.. I got the distinct impression, that Holmes felt he'd been very lucky.. Meanwhile Witherspoon was ranting furiously, and claiming victory in the face of a robbery..

He definitely deserved a rematch as did Carl Williams, in my opinion.

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Chris Byrd? You crazy! Holmes was old when he fought Tyson and even the Spinks fight. You are being selective with your argument

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He was younger than vitali is now when he fought tyson and only 2 years older than wlad when he lost to spinx! Can u imagine hopkins or dawson (who barely beat diaconu, got his ass whooped by pascal and probably went 1-1 with old man johnson!) putting on 25lbs and outboxing wladimir or vitali? lol. Having said that it was tyson we are talking about though. I was impressed with his performance over mercer but other than that he was basically operating as just a very good journeyman, sorry.

Vitali came back and totally demolished the 250lb WBC champ sam peter after a 3 yr hiatus and career ending back surgery to become 3x HW champ. He has gone onto dominate numerous world class fighters (like gomez, adamek, solis, his contemporary shannon briggs, undefeated kevin johnson, chisora, arreola etc) and defend his belt 8 times and counting.

Take Gomez for e.g: He was the WBC mandatory challenger for klitschko in 09, the 6-foot-4 southpaw and former Cuban amateur star is probably underrated. Gomez was a world amateur champ and former cruiserweight titleholder who logged 10 title defenses. Gomez’s eight subsequent heavyweight bouts after moving up in weight suggested that he could effectively carry 220 to 230 pounds. Gomez holds a pro record of 51-3 (although at the time he was 44-1) in fact the great james toney declined a title shot against gomez when he was mandatory!

Gomez's most noteable victories include:

-Volodymyr Virchis (had a record of 24-1): Was ranked #8 at the time, well-schooled, 6-feet-5 an orthodox boxer whose only loss going into the WBC title-elimination bout was a majority decision to current (at the time) WBA title holder Ruslan Chagaev. Gomez was at his relaxed and confident best against Virchis, out-jabbing the Ukrainian and consistently beating him to the punch with counters shots and quick combinations in close.


-Oliver mccall ( had a record of 51-9): Outboxed on 2 occasions by gomez. ( (one win was overturned though due to gomez testing positive for a recreational drug lol) mcall (prior to fighting gomez) had only suffered one defeat since losing to lennox in 07 via a bizarre tko (a close but fair 10 round decision loss to davarryl wiliamson) recent wins for mcall include cuban star yanqui diaz, fres oquendo and Sinan Samil Sam. Mcall was an ageing but still dangerous fighter at the time, he was comprehensively beaten by gomez.

http://www.pound4pound.com/Photos/Ar...Wiegen%201.jpg

http://www.boxnews.com.ua/photos/139...los-Gomez1.jpg

Don't dismiss byrd like that, for one thing byrd was a southpaw and holmes never fought any (none half decent anyway) For two he was a 2x HW world champ. Holmes struggled with men that byrd would run rings around...byrd would certainly have beaten spinks, williams and witherspoon.

'Rapid fire' could slip and counter-punch with GREAT effectiveness ( Put byrd in any era and he would be effective) The man was a defensive whizz!! One of only a very few SOUTHPAW heavyweight champions...byrd was known as the HW 'no one wanted to face'! Slick as they come...

A smallish heavyweight by modern standards but boy o boy...what a boxer!!

I am a huge byrd fan (the guy only lost to the very best in his prime). He was ranked in the ring mag top five for 5 years (2 of those at #1). A fighter admired by his contemporaries and the boxing purists. He did not run his mouth...lived clean and was a gentleman in & out of the ring.

Byrd also had an iron chin. He could take a good shot and still be standing. His resume is underrated as well, as he fought the following:

Ike Ibeabuchi: Who knocked an over confident Byrd out in five rounds. Ike had the potential to be an ATG though..

Jose Ribalta: Who had fought Mike Tyson, Tim Witherspoon, Bruce Seldon, Donovan Ruddock, Leon Spinks, Tony Tubbs, and Frank Bruno; Byrd stopped him in the fourth round

Vitali Klitschko: Who Byrd won via TKO when Vitali had injured himself and couldn't go on. Make what u will of that fight. Was it due to straining to reach byrd?

Wladimir Klitschko: Who beat Byrd twice, first fight, twelve round decision, second fight 7th round TKO stoppage

David Tua: (Who was a stone lighter than in his lewis fight) Byrd made tua miss for 12 rounds in an absolute masterclass (tua had previously stopped michael moorer, ruiz, rahman, maskaev etc)

Evander Holyfield: (2 years after the lewis fights, holy had just stopped hasim rahman in an WBA eliminator to fight lewis for a third time!) Byrd easily outpointed him over 12 rounds.

Andrew Golota: Whom Byrd fought to a draw (one of my all time favorite heavyweight fights) He actually hurt golota in this fight too (u gotta watch this fight folks)!

Jameel McCline: Whom Byrd took to a split decision (mcline was 28-3-3 at the time) People forget that mcline was actually a big threat back then! He had dominated (and floored) shannon briggs, beat up big lance whitaker (who had previously stopped maskaev) blew michael grant away in 1 round and had sam peter on the deck 3 times.

Jimmy Thunder: Thunder was a former gold medallist and IBO champion (byrd stopped him in the 9th round) thunder holds wins over trevor berbick, tony tubbs and tim witherspoon and he also lost a very close SD to john ruiz.

Ross Purrity: A very tough journeyman who had KO'd a young Wladimir Klitschko, Joe Hipp, and fought to a draw with Tommy Morrison; Byrd beat him via ten round decision

Davarryl williamson: Who had just defeated oliver mcall. Byrd won a comfortable UD.

Also throw in mames like hard hitting bert cooper who put both holyfield and michael moorer on the seat of there pants (and had them out on there feet in fact!). Phil jackson (who had only lost to lennox and donovan ruddock at the time) Byrd schooled him! etc etc.

Byrd was the holder of the WBO and IBF World Heavyweight Title belts he made 5 defenses of the latter title.

41 wins-5 losses (most of those coming towards the latter part of his career) I feel he was one of the best American heavyweight of the 2000's, by far.

C'mon... Forman said alot of things he didnt believe

I never really liked Byrd as a heavyweight until I realised he was never really a heavyweight.

A very very brave man.

Cris bord beat some guys that i dont know if Holmes could beat... I know for sure he faced alot better opposition.

A couple thoughts on this subject, three, actually...
1) Holmes was not the best HW of all time. That would be Joe Louis, and he'd beat Holmes most every time, though it would hardly ever be easy. I'm pretty sure that Marciano would beat him, too, because marciano played angles pretty well to open up his right hand and Larry got hit with right hands. All in all, he was pretty damn good.
2) Holmes got beat against Tyson because he got up on his toes and started dancing around and that is exactly the wrong way to fight Tyson, especially at that point in time. It let him get rolling, get his fast feet and very fast hands working without anything of value to worry about. Tyson was able to set down on a right hand and let Larry run into it because that on the toes jab flicking bullshit is just that, which leads to point 3.
3) The one "top" HW I'm certain that Holmes would beat every time, and really easily, is a prime Ali. He had a much better jab and he would stuff it down Ali's throat, and Ali had no other game to go to at that point in time. Holmes would out-jab him, start landing the right because Ali had no defense but reflexes and chin. Easy UD for Holmes.

To be fair Byrd was underratted but some of his big wins were against a guy who lost every round to then he throw his shoulder out. Then the other was Holyfeild who was 41 years of age had hep b and hart complications as well as being pretty shop worn. I don't really know how to rate that era it was kinda of a time were division didn't quite have a champ yet they were pretty spread out. I can see your point though I think people favor the past over the present regardless its just a part of boxing really.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

No doubt robbed agaınst Spınks by a vengeful Don Kıng----thıs guy never lost, and IMO beat Marciano's record of 49 straıght wıns by beatıng Spınks both tımes on many people's cards. Bad luck to have to follow the "greatest of all tıme"---not only that but havıng to beat up the "greatest of all tıme" as well. Yeah not a very popular guy after that, not to mentıon not very charısmatıc eıther. SECOND ONLY TO THE BROWN BOMBER AS HE DEFENDED HIS TITLE 20 CONSECUTIVE TIMES SUCCESSFULLY. What thanks dıd he get? >He beat the monster Gerry Cooney (Foreman saıd Cooney hıt harder than Frazıer), Shavers twıce ın dramatıc fashıon, Wıtherspoon, Weaver, Wıllıams, Norton and everyone else they put ın front of hım. I rank hım hıgher than Dempsey, Frazıer, Tunney, Holyfıeld, Bowe and Lennox Lewıs. Tıed wıth Alı IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePUXSAzpHhU&feature=relmfu

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He lost to a 15-0 tim witherspoon and carl williams. Check out his face after wiliams was through with him too....and losing to a LHW is inexcusable!

http://store03.prostores.com/dcbcoll...14d863af_m.JPG

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No he didn't lose to Witherspoon, Williams, they were close fights but Holmes edged them. I had Holmes winning both fights by 1 point, the commentators were very biased towards Witherspoon especially Dundee horrible commentary.

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Sure **** he did! He had Holmes on the verge of knockout in the 9th and outshone him in the majority of the rounds. Isn't it proof enough that one judge scored it for Witherspoon, the underdog?

Can remember Larry being interviewed after the fight, and it was pointed out, that most people thought he'd lost.. He wasn't at all dismissive, & just responded by saying, it was up to the judges.. I got the distinct impression, that Holmes felt he'd been very lucky.. Meanwhile Witherspoon was ranting furiously, and claiming victory in the face of a robbery..

He definitely deserved a rematch as did Carl Williams, in my opinion.

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I never see the interview but i saw it as a very close fight, with the commentator's being very biased towards Tim Witherspoon. I remember Tim Witherspoon being very good defensively with his Ken Norton like defence parrying Larry Holmes's jab.

But often he didn't punch enough and Larry Holmes edged rounds being more busy, yes he had Larry Holmes hurt in the 9th round. But you also forget to mention Larry Holmes had Tim Witherspoon stunned badly and finished the round very strong. In no way was it a robbery though either man could of won it, was a very close fight.

As for Carl Williams i remember Carl Williams being ahead after 11 rounds, but then i remember he faded and lost the last 3 or 4 rounds in a row. Which probably gave Larry Holmes the edge, but again a very close fight could of gone either way no robbery.

I remember someone on this forum telling me once, Chris Byrd was the Jimmy Young of his era i think thats a very good comparison.

*The philosopher is true to his name with that awesome breakdown of Cris Byrd...

*U guys aren't gunna believe this ,but my whole Holmes debate was really to get to this point... cuz i knew people would debate Cris Bird. Man, i forgot about James Thunder.

*Another point i liked from "the philosopher"is what he said about Jamile Mccline. Mccline was a beast.. a true heavyweight in a heavyweits body. People forget just how tough and threatening this man really was.

p.s.. if i misspell alot, please excuse ,as i am posting from my phone....

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*The philosopher is true to his name with that awesome breakdown of Cris Byrd...

*U guys aren't gunna believe this ,but my whole Holmes debate was really to get to this point... cuz i knew people would debate Cris Bird. Man, i forgot about James Thunder.

*Another point i liked from "the philosopher"is what he said about Jamile Mccline. Mccline was a beast.. a true heavyweight in a heavyweits body. People forget just how tough and threatening this man really was.

p.s.. if i misspell alot, please excuse ,as i am posting from my phone....

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Mccline was built like a monster. To bad he fought like a pussy. The way he went down and coward in a corner against Wlad was pathitic.

Byrd-Williamson remains one of the worse I fights I ever seen in life.

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I never really liked Byrd as a heavyweight until I realised he was never really a heavyweight.

A very very brave man.

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http://boxingfights.net/chris-byrd.jpg

So i am assume you don't rate 185lb marciano, 205lb frazier and 195lb patterson as HW's too? Chris byrd at 210/15lbs (his average weight) is not a HW?? Prime foreman only weighed 3 lbs more....idiotic statement.

The ignorance on the subject of Chris Byrd and the idea that he is a "blown up middleweight" simply amazes me.

Chris Byrd turned pro in January '93 at a weight of about 169 pounds. By his third fight Byrd was fighting at above 205 pounds. In only his ninth fight and his seventh at heavyweight, Byrd defeated 6'6 Mike Rouse for the Vacant USBA Heavyweight Title. Chris Byrd has fought 47 times in his professional career, 44 of those fights have been at heavyweight. Byrd has weighed well over 205 pounds for each of those fights, and if that doesn't make him a heavyweight, then I don't know what would. He weighed 215 for holy and tua....

I am sure that the Byrd watchers will say that Byrd fought at Middleweight as an amateur, but I have to say that many a heavyweight fought at the lower weights as an amateur. Professional ranks is a whole new story. Ali, Tony Tucker, Michael Moorer, Evander Holyfield, these are just a very few of the many heavyweight champions who fought at lower weights as amateurs. In Michael Moorers case he fought at Jr. Middleweight.

The pressure of making the 165 pound limit may have cost Byrd a gold medal, this is a subject that no one cares to talk about but the truth is Byrd's weight hovered around 180 when not training in early '92. These are Byrds own words. Again I point out if Byrd is a blown up middleweight then why in '92 was he struggling to make the 165 pound weight limit for the Olympic Games?

Who started the myth about Byrd being a blown up middleweight? I don't know. It could have been any number of writers or was it Byrd himself? Was the reason to gain a mental edge over other fighters? Was it to get the big fights? Only Byrd knows that. Byrd is a heavyweight version of Pernell Whitaker. Both at elusive, defensive and very hard to hit. These aspects of his game make him a very boring fighter to watch.

Chris Byrd makes all fighters look bad. Even in his first defeat against Ibeabuchi, Ike did not look like a killing machine. Byrds plan of making Ibeabuchi miss him with his back to the ropes and then countering was working. The fight was dead even going into the fifth. Judges scores after the fourth round were: 38-38, 39-37 for Ibeabuchi, and 39-37 for Byrd. A left hook-uppercut by Ibeabuchi that Byrd never saw coming ended the fight. Byrd has admitted that he learned a lesson from that fight, "Stay the hell off of the ropes".

Byrd has gained a lot of attention for his fights with the Klitschko brothers. I personally feel that this is the reason people like to reiterate the "Byrd Myth" (he is a blown up middleweight that is fighting giants). The truth is that Byrd is a heavyweight fighting bigger heavyweights.

He is far from the "Blown up middleweight Myth" that everyone likes to repeat. Chris Byrds own history will tell you that he has spent 95% of his career as a heavyweight.

Chis Byrd enjoys the idea of being a blown up middleweight, so much so that he repeats the Myth himself. I am sure that he knows the truth and I hope now many of you do as well.

In fact he was so desperate towards his career end that he tried cutting to 175lbs in way too short a time, looked desperately ill in doing so and performed horrendously.

Doesn't matter if he was a blown up middleweight or not. He still fought like one. Byrd was an acquired taste of a fighter. You either liked him or you didn't. I never cared much for him. Found him boring and his stupid ass wife annoying. Seeing Byrd go on a crack diet and drop all the way down to 175 only to get his ass beat by a mediocre fighter was great.

Phil i read about six words of your post and realised your a bit of a sociapath. And a dim one at that.

I didn't rate him because I found him boring and a bit of a powder puff.

Then he had those last two fights at cruiser and then lightheavy and it was like a light went on....

The guy went 30+ rounds with the K-Bros and nearly everyone else worth fighting while now clearly being a blownup lightheavy weight. Your little story does nothing to prove otherwise.

Like I said... he's a very very brave man.

Also... How you assumed I don't rate this guy and that guy from this statement I'll never know???

Larry Holmes was a great fighter no doubt.

Greatest of all time? No chance IMO. He had no real top notch competitors whilst in his prime and to be that GOAT, you must have the fights that define you. Wlad really reminds me a lot of Holmes. He too is in a poor era of HW boxing and it will be hard to place him in an all time list due to this fact.

I agree that Holmes beat Spinks though, but I actually think he was robbed due to the fact that in the 80's racism was still much more apparent in the media and I basically think they didn't want a black man to take a white mans record. Then again had he dealt with Spinks in the way a true HW should against a LHW (like Tyson did) then it couldn't have happened anyway.

Some of ali's oponents:

-Patterson weighed 188½lbs.

-Quarry weighed 190lbs.

-Frazier 205½lbs for there 1st fight..

-Bob Foster Weighed 180lbs for the ali fight.

-Jimmy elliss was 185LBS for the ali fight.

-Henry-Cooper weighed 185LBS.

-Karl mildenberger 195lbs.

-Leon spinks 197¼ lbs.

-Zora folley 202½.

-Archie moore 191lbs.

-Doug jones 188 lbs.

etc etc

So how is byrd not a HW?????

Chris Byrd 215 lbs beat David Tua 233 lbs by UD in round 12 of 12

Chris Byrd 214 lbs beat Evander Holyfield 220 lbs by UD in round 12 of 12

Chris Byrd 210½ lbs drew with Andrew Golota 237½ lbs by PTS in round 12 of 12

Chris Byrd 214 lbs beat Jameel McCline 270 lbs by SD in round 12 of 12

Wladimir Klitschko 238 lbs beat Chris Byrd 213½ lbs by UD in round 12 of 12

Chris Byrd 217¼ lbs beat Maurice Harris 224½ lbs by UD in round 12 of 12

Chris Byrd 215 lbs beat Jimmy Thunder 230 lbs by TKO at 1:07 in round 9 of 10

Chris Byrd 213 lbs beat DaVarryl Williamson 225 lbs by UD in round 12 of 12

I don't understand how byrd is not a HW? Holyfield fought as a CW, Michael moorer as a LHW!!

I agree. You clearly don't.

For the record prime Holmes batters the living day lights out of Chris Byrd. Holmes would set him up with the jab and finish him off with the right hand.

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Originally Posted by Master

For the record prime Holmes batters the living day lights out of Chris Byrd. Holmes would set him up with the jab and finish him off with the right hand.

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I couldn't agree more. Byrd was a decent HW. He could give anyone a half decent fight on his night but Holmes is an ATG and as much as he irritates me these days that cannot and never will be taken away from him.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

For the record prime Holmes batters the living day lights out of Chris Byrd. Holmes would set him up with the jab and finish him off with the right hand.

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I couldn't agree more. Byrd was a decent HW. He could give anyone a half decent fight on his night but Holmes is an ATG and as much as he irritates me these days that cannot and never will be taken away from him.

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And I'll "third" that remark. I'm a certified Holmes-HATER... but still... there's no way Chris Byrd comes anywhere near close to beating Holmes. Holmes sweeps the canvas with Byrd 10 times out of 10.