Larry Holmes---greatest of all-tıme?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

No doubt robbed agaınst Spınks by a vengeful Don Kıng----thıs guy never lost, and IMO beat Marciano's record of 49 straıght wıns by beatıng Spınks both tımes on many people's cards. Bad luck to have to follow the "greatest of all tıme"---not only that but havıng to beat up the "greatest of all tıme" as well. Yeah not a very popular guy after that, not to mentıon not very charısmatıc eıther. SECOND ONLY TO THE BROWN BOMBER AS HE DEFENDED HIS TITLE 20 CONSECUTIVE TIMES SUCCESSFULLY. What thanks dıd he get? >He beat the monster Gerry Cooney (Foreman saıd Cooney hıt harder than Frazıer), Shavers twıce ın dramatıc fashıon, Wıtherspoon, Weaver, Wıllıams, Norton and everyone else they put ın front of hım. I rank hım hıgher than Dempsey, Frazıer, Tunney, Holyfıeld, Bowe and Lennox Lewıs. Tıed wıth Alı IMO.

He lost to a 15-0 tim witherspoon and carl williams. Check out his face after wiliams was through with him too....and losing to a LHW is inexcusable!

[brocktonblockbust]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

[Master]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

[ICB]

No doubt robbed agaınst Spınks by a vengeful Don Kıng----thıs guy never lost, and IMO beat Marciano's record of 49 straıght wıns by beatıng Spınks both tımes on many people's cards. Bad luck to have to follow the "greatest of all tıme"---not only that but havıng to beat up the "greatest of all tıme" as well. Yeah not a very popular guy after that, not to mentıon not very charısmatıc eıther. SECOND ONLY TO THE BROWN BOMBER AS HE DEFENDED HIS TITLE 20 CONSECUTIVE TIMES SUCCESSFULLY. What thanks dıd he get? >He beat the monster Gerry Cooney (Foreman saıd Cooney hıt harder than Frazıer), Shavers twıce ın dramatıc fashıon, Wıtherspoon, Weaver, Wıllıams, Norton and everyone else they put ın front of hım. I rank hım hıgher than Dempsey, Frazıer, Tunney, Holyfıeld, Bowe and Lennox Lewıs. Tıed wıth Alı IMO.

He lost to a 15-0 tim witherspoon and carl williams. Check out his face after wiliams was through with him too....and losing to a LHW is inexcusable!

No he didn't lose to Witherspoon, Williams, they were close fights but Holmes edged them. I had Holmes winning both fights by 1 point, the commentators were very biased towards Witherspoon especially Dundee horrible commentary.

[IamInuit]

No doubt robbed agaınst Spınks by a vengeful Don Kıng----thıs guy never lost, and IMO beat Marciano's record of 49 straıght wıns by beatıng Spınks both tımes on many people's cards. Bad luck to have to follow the "greatest of all tıme"---not only that but havıng to beat up the "greatest of all tıme" as well. Yeah not a very popular guy after that, not to mentıon not very charısmatıc eıther. SECOND ONLY TO THE BROWN BOMBER AS HE DEFENDED HIS TITLE 20 CONSECUTIVE TIMES SUCCESSFULLY. What thanks dıd he get? >He beat the monster Gerry Cooney (Foreman saıd Cooney hıt harder than Frazıer), Shavers twıce ın dramatıc fashıon, Wıtherspoon, Weaver, Wıllıams, Norton and everyone else they put ın front of hım. I rank hım hıgher than Dempsey, Frazıer, Tunney, Holyfıeld, Bowe and Lennox Lewıs. Tıed wıth Alı IMO.

He lost to a 15-0 tim witherspoon and carl williams. Check out his face after wiliams was through with him too....and losing to a LHW is inexcusable!

[IMG]http://store03.prostores.com/dcbcollectibles/media/23/a20791b12feacc14d863af_m.JPG[/IMG

And Ali lost to and 6 and 1 Spinks.

[TitoFan]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

[IamInuit]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

I couldn't stand him either.

[TitoFan]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

I couldn't stand him either.

I don't know about you, bro. But I've never seen a more irreverent, "whiney" jerk in my years of following boxing. He disrespected Rocky Marciano, when the poor guy wasn't even around anymore to defend himself. No other boxer to my knowledge has ever done that. He whined constantly about not getting enough of "this" or enough of "that", because he was black. It got to the point to where just looking at his sorry ass face rubbed me the wrong way. I was ecstatic when Tyson knocked the stuffing out of him.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

I couldn't stand him either.

I don't know about you, bro. But I've never seen a more irreverent, "whiney" jerk in my years of following boxing. He disrespected Rocky Marciano, when the poor guy wasn't even around anymore to defend himself. No other boxer to my knowledge has ever done that. He whined constantly about not getting enough of "this" or enough of "that", because he was black. It got to the point to where just looking at his sorry ass face rubbed me the wrong way. I was ecstatic when Tyson knocked the stuffing out of him.

In express fashion!!

It just doesn't stand to reason that the greatest of all time gets knocked out in 4 rounds... Even if he was 38.

Hell Lennox Lewis was 38 and under prepared when he was tearing Vitali's face to shreds.

[TitoFan]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

I couldn't stand him either.

I don't know about you, bro. But I've never seen a more irreverent, "whiney" jerk in my years of following boxing. He disrespected Rocky Marciano, when the poor guy wasn't even around anymore to defend himself. No other boxer to my knowledge has ever done that. He whined constantly about not getting enough of "this" or enough of "that", because he was black. It got to the point to where just looking at his sorry ass face rubbed me the wrong way. I was ecstatic when Tyson knocked the stuffing out of him.

In express fashion!!

It just doesn't stand to reason that the greatest of all time gets knocked out in 4 rounds... Even if he was 38.

Hell Lennox Lewis was 38 and under prepared when he was tearing Vitali's face to shreds.

I like to think it was "karma".
Apparently.... Holmes couldn't carry Tyson's jock.

[IamInuit]

larry was the real deal, not evander. larry would have bazookaed evander ın hıs prıme. look at larry at 42 years old go the dıstance wıth a prıme evander ın 1992 ı thınk. unbelıevaqble.

What do you make of Larry's 4th round stoppage defeat against Tyson?

I have always stuggled to firmly put that fight into context.

At present, im kinda thinking the mid-80's Tyson was just that good

ı never understood that fıght eıther--ı saw ıt lıve on PPV january 1988. I thought Holmes was startıng to gıve a boxıng lesson to Tyson by the 4th round---ıt looked lıke ıt could be an upset at that poınt---then BAM!!! Tyson's speed took over. ıt sucked to see larry go down lıke that.

He took that fight on 4 weeks notice, was 40 yrs old and had been in retirement for 2 years following 2 losses to a LHW (one of those fights were debateable though!) a better prepared holmes frustrates tyson badly......

Maybe. It showed me how great his chin was because he took some blockbuster home runs and was still fighting back!

I must admit to the guilty pleasure of jumping for joy when Tyson KTFO'ed Holmes.
While I grudgingly admit to Holmes greatness as a fighter.... I absolutely HATED Holmes the person.

I couldn't stand him either.

I don't know about you, bro. But I've never seen a more irreverent, "whiney" jerk in my years of following boxing. He disrespected Rocky Marciano, when the poor guy wasn't even around anymore to defend himself. No other boxer to my knowledge has ever done that. He whined constantly about not getting enough of "this" or enough of "that", because he was black. It got to the point to where just looking at his sorry ass face rubbed me the wrong way. I was ecstatic when Tyson knocked the stuffing out of him.

It was and still is the itch the wont heal for me also. His ability to communicate well to the press and articulate a thought left a lot to be desired. His claims that he was forced to fight Ali by King is also suspect imo. I mean I blame King but no way is Holmes innocent in that conspiracy. I wanted so bad at the time to see Cooney stretch him out. Having said that as the years have ticked by and I have looked back at his fights over the years, he was pretty dam good.

[Mr140]

Yea also speaking of guys 38 when Holyfeild fought a prime Lewis the second time around in the rematch he gave him his toughest fight. I think the fight results for there fights should of been reversed.

[bigstinkybug]

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

*well..if i say it,i better be able to name them... let's see.
Ike Ibeabuchi:
Bowe:
Holyfeild
Byrd
Tyson
Vitali Klitsko
Wlad Klitsko
Lennox
Tua
I'm stuck on 9... David Haye.

Holmes had a nice jab, but really... what else. He had a super-fight with Cooney... that's a super-fight? That's the highlight of his career? He was taken to near death with Ken Norton at the end of Nortons career...
This is the way i see it, it's only my opinion... "Great heavyweights... don't lose to great light-heavyweights... If Holmes was that good, he should've run over Spinx...

[IamInuit]

*C'mon... i can mention 10 guys in the last 20 years that would beat Holmes... so NO... not even close.

*well..if i say it,i better be able to name them... let's see.
Ike Ibeabuchi: He could get to Larry and he might also get beat senseless and just because he might get to Larry does not equate to Holmes not being great.
Bowe: Good one but I still give the edge to Larry because of Bowes shaky brain pan. And btw if Bowe could hold it together he's be a test for anyone in history.
Holyfeild:He beat a worn out Holmes. Larry had already been in the game for 20 years. I think a prime Holmes cruises to a ud.
Byrd: Larry knocks him cold.
Tyson: Even split when Larry was in his prime
Vitali Klitsko: No matter how good he looked with a Lewis who chose to stand in front of him, Holmes would tear him apart
Wlad Klitsko: The present Wlad would be a tough go but the one prior to Steward gets starched.
Lennox:Beats Holmes imo and on any given night motivated could probably beat anyone in history.
Tua: Looks a lot like the Shavers fight but Tua's chin holds out for the final bell
I'm stuck on 9... David Haye: Less of a chance then Tyson but a better chance then Byrd.

Holmes had a nice jab, but really... what else. He had a super-fight with Cooney... that's a super-fight? That's the highlight of his career? He was taken to near death with Ken Norton at the end of Nortons career...
This is the way i see it, it's only my opinion... "Great heavyweights... don't lose to great light-heavyweights... If Holmes was that good, he should've run over Spinx...

I have got to hand it to you that’s not to bad a list however I don’t agree with many as I have commented in the quote.

As far as “great heavyweights don’t lose to great light heavyweights” goes that’s quite debatable. Spinks being able to do it to Larry does not necessarily mean that Holmes is not a great heavyweight. And btw he got jobbed in the first Spinks fight. I guess it all depends on ones definition of great. I consider Wills, Jeannette and McVey great heavyweights where a lot of people would not. Yet Langford knocked them all out at least once and he was in reality no where near even a light heavyweight. I mean if Louis was that good he should have run over Conn right?

Anyway good stuff