Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
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Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Ya know, I'll change my tune on that. I didn't know he got fucked purse-wise by DLH the first time around. I actually can't blame him for trying to the big end of the stick that time around.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Well, Trinidad vs De La Hoya.
De La Hoya really won the battle, but lost the war.
Trinidad had De La Hoya right where he wanted him and ran out of time to finish him off, De La Hoya was done, he couldn't go any further.
On points, De La Hoya should've been awarded the decision anyway.
De Le Hoya would never have lasted in the days of 15 rounders, dude trained hard, but always gassed out by rd 10. Some guys just don't have stamina no matter how they train.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
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Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
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Originally Posted by
Jerry Rice
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Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
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Originally Posted by
Vendettos
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Originally Posted by
Jerry Rice
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Originally Posted by
Vendettos
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Originally Posted by
Master
Tito beat Oscar so he had less to prove and more to lose.
He wanted Jones because he probably thought he could carry his punch up the weights but Hopkins told him different.
To be fair, he was knocking people out all over the place at MW before the Hopkins fight.
Tito fought one time at MW prior to Hopkins and that was to Joppy.
He went to light middle first.
Not a huge difference, if your power holds at LMW then not too far fetched hat you can hold it at MW.
his power didn't hold against hopkins cause his hands weren't wrapped in the special way his father always wrapped them.
watch the fight tito. lands a few punches early and quickly realizes that he has no power. hopkins quickly realizes that tito has no plan b. easy fight for b-hop.
Yea tell Mayorga that.
i'm sure his handwraps were back to normal(loaded) when he fought mayorga.
he never used LOADED wraps, even Nazeem Richardson went into detail explaining the big differences between what happened in Hopkins/Trinidad pre fight and Margarito/Mosley (minimum) pre fight, Trinidad's hands had more of the gauze wrapped further down the hand so that it was tighter nothing loaded like Margarito who had plaster coated wraps, apples and oranges, the only issue was that Trinidad's style of wraps weren't permitted in NY which is where the fight was but they were fully legal and permitted in Vegas where most of his fights took place
The one fight where Tito wasn't allowed to have his father wrap his hands the way he always did, Tito suddenly had no KO power.
what good is power when you can't land a clean blow on your opponent? so how the hell do you deduce that he had no power? and he still stunned B-Hop though not seriously in the 6th I believe when the ref decides to step in and fix his cup, Trinidad's "lack of power" in that fight if credited to Hopkins outboxing him and using he superb defense nothing else, get your facts straight buddy :-X
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
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Originally Posted by
Jerry Rice
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Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
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Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jerry Rice
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Originally Posted by
Vendettos
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Originally Posted by
Master
Tito beat Oscar so he had less to prove and more to lose.
He wanted Jones because he probably thought he could carry his punch up the weights but Hopkins told him different.
To be fair, he was knocking people out all over the place at MW before the Hopkins fight.
Tito fought one time at MW prior to Hopkins and that was to Joppy.
He went to light middle first.
Not a huge difference, if your power holds at LMW then not too far fetched hat you can hold it at MW.
his power didn't hold against hopkins cause his hands weren't wrapped in the special way his father always wrapped them.
watch the fight tito. lands a few punches early and quickly realizes that he has no power. hopkins quickly realizes that tito has no plan b. easy fight for b-hop.
Yea tell Mayorga that.
i'm sure his handwraps were back to normal(loaded) when he fought mayorga.
he never used LOADED wraps, even Nazeem Richardson went into detail explaining the big differences between what happened in Hopkins/Trinidad pre fight and Margarito/Mosley (minimum) pre fight, Trinidad's hands had more of the gauze wrapped further down the hand so that it was tighter nothing loaded like Margarito who had plaster coated wraps, apples and oranges, the only issue was that Trinidad's style of wraps weren't permitted in NY which is where the fight was but they were fully legal and permitted in Vegas where most of his fights took place
The one fight where Tito wasn't allowed to have his father wrap his hands the way he always did, Tito suddenly had no KO power.
what good is power when you can't land a clean blow on your opponent? so how the hell do you deduce that he had no power? and he still stunned B-Hop though not seriously in the 6th I believe when the ref decides to step in and fix his cup, Trinidad's "lack of power" in that fight if credited to Hopkins outboxing him and using he superb defense nothing else, get your facts straight buddy :-X
yeah hopkins is amazing and tito sucked. fact!
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
The thing is Jerry i don't care who Oscar would lose to because Tito clearly lost to Oscar. I mean you would pretty much have no knowledge of boxing to give the fight to Tito much like the judges did. One of the worst decision i have ever seen only other ones being Holyfeild vs Lennox first fight.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
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Originally Posted by
Mr140
The thing is Jerry i don't care who Oscar would lose to because Tito clearly lost to Oscar. I mean you would pretty much have no knowledge of boxing to give the fight to Tito much like the judges did. One of the worst decision i have ever seen only other ones being Holyfeild vs Lennox first fight.
Aside from those two fights, the only other egregious boxing decision that is equal or tops that was/is the RJJ Gold Medal match at the Seoul Olympics in 1988. That and the Pac-Man/Bradley fight.
(I think the RJJ robbery was the worst robbery of all time...)
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
It doesn't get worse than RJJ/Park Si Hung.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Jerry are telling me you think Tito won that fight thats all i need to know see were we stand. Reason being if you scored that fight for Tito then i don't think much of your knowledge at scoring fights. Do you really think Tito won that fight thats is all i have to know dude.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
I had Tito nicking the fight, it was obvious ODH won the middle rounds and lost the last few so it all comes down to how you scored the early rounds which were close but Tito won most of those.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
I think the best out come for Tito would be a draw and that would be generous. I just find it funny when rice brings up Bernard and Jones and then ask how Oscar would do but ignores that Tito could not even beat Oscar himself. Also lets not forget were both fighters started fighting at as Tito was a bigger guy in general. I mean Oscar started off at 130 and then went to 160 Tito started at 147 so i don't think it really that fair to compare there jumps up in weight really. I would be interest to see your score cards round by round master i might redo mine again.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
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Originally Posted by
Mr140
I think the best out come for Tito would be a draw and that would be generous. I just find it funny when rice brings up Bernard and Jones and then ask how Oscar would do but ignores that Tito could not even beat Oscar himself. Also lets not forget were both fighters started fighting at as Tito was a bigger guy in general. I mean Oscar started off at 130 and then went to 160 Tito started at 147 so i don't think it really that fair to compare there jumps up in weight really. I would be interest to see your score cards round by round master i might redo mine again.
It is a long time since I watched it and it was not a great fight to watch and I generally do not score fights again. The fight I have watched the most are ODH and Tito's fight with Vargas, they were both at their best. Great fights.
I agree ODH was the smaller fighter and did brilliantly going up in weight and taking on Pernell, Ike and Tito as these guys would not fight one another.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Well he at least answered my question i dont think you have told me who you scored the fight for.I don't agree with master but he did at least give me a answer to the question you have yet to. Do you not think Tito is not bigger then Oscar in weight and also who do you think won the fight.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
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Originally Posted by
Master
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Originally Posted by
Mr140
I think the best out come for Tito would be a draw and that would be generous. I just find it funny when rice brings up Bernard and Jones and then ask how Oscar would do but ignores that Tito could not even beat Oscar himself. Also lets not forget were both fighters started fighting at as Tito was a bigger guy in general. I mean Oscar started off at 130 and then went to 160 Tito started at 147 so i don't think it really that fair to compare there jumps up in weight really. I would be interest to see your score cards round by round master i might redo mine again.
It is a long time since I watched it and it was not a great fight to watch and I generally do not score fights again. The fight I have watched the most are ODH and Tito's fight with Vargas, they were both at their best. Great fights.
I agree ODH was the smaller fighter and did brilliantly going up in weight and taking on Pernell, Ike and Tito as these guys would not fight one another.
He should have been disqualified against Vargas.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
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Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
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Originally Posted by
Master
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Originally Posted by
Mr140
I think the best out come for Tito would be a draw and that would be generous. I just find it funny when rice brings up Bernard and Jones and then ask how Oscar would do but ignores that Tito could not even beat Oscar himself. Also lets not forget were both fighters started fighting at as Tito was a bigger guy in general. I mean Oscar started off at 130 and then went to 160 Tito started at 147 so i don't think it really that fair to compare there jumps up in weight really. I would be interest to see your score cards round by round master i might redo mine again.
It is a long time since I watched it and it was not a great fight to watch and I generally do not score fights again. The fight I have watched the most are ODH and Tito's fight with Vargas, they were both at their best. Great fights.
I agree ODH was the smaller fighter and did brilliantly going up in weight and taking on Pernell, Ike and Tito as these guys would not fight one another.
He should have been disqualified against Vargas.
The punching low?
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
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Originally Posted by
Master
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Originally Posted by
Mr140
I think the best out come for Tito would be a draw and that would be generous. I just find it funny when rice brings up Bernard and Jones and then ask how Oscar would do but ignores that Tito could not even beat Oscar himself. Also lets not forget were both fighters started fighting at as Tito was a bigger guy in general. I mean Oscar started off at 130 and then went to 160 Tito started at 147 so i don't think it really that fair to compare there jumps up in weight really. I would be interest to see your score cards round by round master i might redo mine again.
It is a long time since I watched it and it was not a great fight to watch and I generally do not score fights again. The fight I have watched the most are ODH and Tito's fight with Vargas, they were both at their best. Great fights.
I agree ODH was the smaller fighter and did brilliantly going up in weight and taking on Pernell, Ike and Tito as these guys would not fight one another.
He should have been disqualified against Vargas.
that's just laughable, Vargas did more acting and hitting low, difference is Trinidad didn't bitch and cry about it, and ODH didn't do brilliantly against Whitaker, most people felt he lost, same against Quartey
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Yeah I disagree with Oscar looking brilliant against Pernell. In most exchanges, Sweet Pea made him look like an amateur, swinging and hitting air (even Oscar laughed several times after his combos because he felt stupid). But of course Jim Lampley (Oscar nuthugger #1) got excited and called the missed blows like they landed clean.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
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Originally Posted by
Master
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Originally Posted by
Mr140
I think the best out come for Tito would be a draw and that would be generous. I just find it funny when rice brings up Bernard and Jones and then ask how Oscar would do but ignores that Tito could not even beat Oscar himself. Also lets not forget were both fighters started fighting at as Tito was a bigger guy in general. I mean Oscar started off at 130 and then went to 160 Tito started at 147 so i don't think it really that fair to compare there jumps up in weight really. I would be interest to see your score cards round by round master i might redo mine again.
It is a long time since I watched it and it was not a great fight to watch and I generally do not score fights again. The fight I have watched the most are ODH and Tito's fight with Vargas, they were both at their best. Great fights.
I agree ODH was the smaller fighter and did brilliantly going up in weight and taking on Pernell, Ike and Tito as these guys would not fight one another.
He should have been disqualified against Vargas.
that's just laughable, Vargas did more acting and hitting low, difference is Trinidad didn't bitch and cry about it, and ODH didn't do brilliantly against Whitaker, most people felt he lost, same against Quartey
I thought ODH deserved the decisions against Pernell and Ike.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I thought ODH deserved the decisions against Pernell and Ike.
He did.
Mostly folks argue about the Pernell fight.
De La Hoya won that on effective aggression. Pernell lost on inaction and not throwing enough back.
If you're gonna make a man miss, you're also supposed to make him pay by giving him a counter.
Pernell didn't do that. Pernell would make him miss and walk away, not make him miss and make him pay. He didn't counter. Pernell would showboat a bit after making De La Hoya miss like an amateur, trying to give the impression that Pernell was in control of the fight, but Pernell wasn't throwing counter-shots after making him miss, Pernell clowned around instead. That doesn't win fights. I give it to the guy who's at least throwing punches, trying to win the fight.
De la Hoya kept coming ahead with aggression, at least throwing shots with bad intentions, while Pernell kept on the backfoot, making him miss but not taking advantage with counters. In that moment, I'm gonna give it to the fighter who's at least coming ahead trying to make a fight out of it, not the dude shucking and jiving, not engaging and not throwing counters after making the man miss....
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Oscar won with aggression Whitaker was not throwing anything you got to hit to score points. As for the Ike fight the last round sealed it for Oscar that knockdown was needed and he got it. Atleast in those fights you can make argument i still to this day can not see Tito winning on points in their fight.
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jerry Rice
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Originally Posted by
bradlee180
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Originally Posted by
Master
I thought ODH deserved the decisions against Pernell and Ike.
He did.
Mostly folks argue about the Pernell fight.
De La Hoya won that on effective aggression. Pernell lost on inaction and not throwing enough back.
If you're gonna make a man miss, you're also supposed to make him pay by giving him a counter.
Pernell didn't do that. Pernell would make him miss and walk away, not make him miss and make him pay. He didn't counter. Pernell would showboat a bit after making De La Hoya miss like an amateur, trying to give the impression that Pernell was in control of the fight, but Pernell wasn't throwing counter-shots after making him miss, Pernell clowned around instead. That doesn't win fights. I give it to the guy who's at least throwing punches, trying to win the fight.
De la Hoya kept coming ahead with aggression, at least throwing shots with bad intentions, while Pernell kept on the backfoot, making him miss but not taking advantage with counters. In that moment, I'm gonna give it to the fighter who's at least coming ahead trying to make a fight out of it, not the dude shucking and jiving, not engaging and not throwing counters after making the man miss....
He landed 90 more punches, how much countering do you want ???
No he did not. It was only 41 more. And most of Whitaker's landed punches was that flicking, ineffective, stay away from me jab. That bullshit knock down he got credit for wasn't even from a punch. Whitaker gave A level defensive performance. But only a D level offensive performance. He did not win that fight
Re: Why was Tito so obsessed with Roy and not with Oscar ????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jerry Rice
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Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by
Jerry Rice
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Originally Posted by
bradlee180
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Originally Posted by
Master
I thought ODH deserved the decisions against Pernell and Ike.
He did.
Mostly folks argue about the Pernell fight.
De La Hoya won that on effective aggression. Pernell lost on inaction and not throwing enough back.
If you're gonna make a man miss, you're also supposed to make him pay by giving him a counter.
Pernell didn't do that. Pernell would make him miss and walk away, not make him miss and make him pay. He didn't counter. Pernell would showboat a bit after making De La Hoya miss like an amateur, trying to give the impression that Pernell was in control of the fight, but Pernell wasn't throwing counter-shots after making him miss, Pernell clowned around instead. That doesn't win fights. I give it to the guy who's at least throwing punches, trying to win the fight.
De la Hoya kept coming ahead with aggression, at least throwing shots with bad intentions, while Pernell kept on the backfoot, making him miss but not taking advantage with counters. In that moment, I'm gonna give it to the fighter who's at least coming ahead trying to make a fight out of it, not the dude shucking and jiving, not engaging and not throwing counters after making the man miss....
He landed 90 more punches, how much countering do you want ???
No he did not. It was only 41 more. And most of Whitaker's landed punches was that flicking, ineffective, stay away from me jab. That bullshit knock down he got credit for wasn't even from a punch. Whitaker gave A level defensive performance. But only a D level offensive performance. He did not win that fight
I know that you are fair when you want to be, at least admit the scorecards were bullshit.
They were. Way to wide. But the right guy won
